Hello all,

Below we will find the data of 40 games of warzones that compares total dps of each team with their win rate. (Essentially Objective vs DPS Farming and what wins more games.) Yes this is a small sample size, but I plan to update this every 20 games and re-calculate the percentages. I have screen shots of each match and an Excel sheet that I can give access to for anyone that doubts the numbers. This is solo Queuing 8s only with no change as to my own playstyle. That is very non objective based. I am not cherry picking games The screen shots all have time and date stamps that are in order.

 

40 Game Stats:

 

Average Total Warzone Damage Per Team: 24,591,614

Average Winning Total Warzone Damage: 26,423,742

Average Loosing Total Warzone Damage: 19,524,131

Average Delta Between Winning and Loosing Total Damage: 6,899,611

Average Player DPS: 3,940 (This is a rough estimate as some matches are longer/shorter uses 13 min match avg)

 

Map Win Rate % of Team with Higher Total DPS:

Civil War: 100% (4 Games)

Novar: 100% (1 Game)

Void Star: 80% (5 Games)

Yavin: 57% (7 Games)

OG Hutball: 75% (3 Games)

Hyper Gate:77% (9 Games)

Quesh Hutball: 50% (4 Games)

Van Hutball: 50% (6 Games)

Total Wins:26

Total Losses:14

 

Average Win Rate of Team with Higher Total DPS= 65%

Current Personal Win Rate(For LOLS)= 60% (24/40 Games)

 

As we can see after 40 games the team with the higher total DPS output has won 65% of games.

Again this will be updated after the next 20 games are played.

 

Please let me know if you would want anything added or if you see any mistakes. I will correct/add as possible.

 

Enjoy!

Edited September 5, 2022 by TmoneyTime

Plz include "Average Total Times Clicked Node While Getting Attacked and Ingored Attacker to Continue Clicking Node Causing Wins"

Updated 40 Games. Added average player DPS Edited September 5, 2022 by TmoneyTime

I've noticed this too, since healing is so laughable now the only thing that matters in a match is DPS. I used to love healing in matches but it's so incredibly weak you really can't make a difference healing. Healer slots are useless compared to dps slots. I wish this would change. My conclusion is the same as yours, dps is all that matters in most of the games, except possibly huttball where paying attention matters most. Even playing a tank it feels useless other than guard or some clutch maneuvers like grappling the huttball carrier right when they are about to cap.

I like playing support classes but they are not satisfying to play at all now; this is coming from playing in 6.0 and just coming back to the game in 7.1.

DPS is also pretty imbalanced by class, which i suppose is ok except there are so many abilities removed now that there is no counter for it. Marauders/Sentinel for example just seem to dominate everything.. in 6.x it was merc haha and what happened to mercs now in 7.x lol.

Anyway it seems to be going the way of korean mmos where high dps numbers is the only thing that matter and I don't think that's a good direction to go (is why I don't play those)

This is an interesting observation /experiment/ investigation, Lecko.

 

But I think it speaks more of the bad quality (even total lack) of objective players at the moment you logged in, rather than how optimum a farm damage team is.

These days, the good objective players aren't grouped, or even in SF (I think is your server). So the higher dps team are competing against something irrelevant in terms of victory/defeat.

Currently, the average quality of objective players isn't good, most of them will just give orders from endzone or do basic stuff as clicking, and will call that doing objectives. We know that is just bad quality, and lately often the case.

 

Anyway, if we would have premades of good objective players like we had in the past, the balance stats you have here would be very different.

Edited September 7, 2022 by _Miriya_

This is an interesting observation /experiment/ investigation, Lecko.

 

But I think it speaks more of the bad quality (even total lack) of objective players at the moment you logged in, rather than how optimum a farm damage team is.

These days, the good objective players aren't grouped, or even in SF (I think is your server). So the higher dps team are competing against something irrelevant in terms of victory/defeat.

Currently, the average quality of objective players isn't good, most of them will just give orders from endzone or do basic stuff as clicking, and will call that doing objectives. We know that is just bad quality, and lately often the case.

 

Anyway, if we would have premades of good objective players like we had in the past, the balance stats you have here would be very different.

 

Yes premades usually win against non premades, if anything you compare an objective premade to a dmg farm premade in all cases the dmg farmers win. I mean even if they lose, did you really win dying 26 times to get useless currencies slightly quicker?

The question I asked my-self when making this project was:

 

In the games current state of player skill, teams, and meta. What playstyle achieves a higher overall win rate, while seeing what the true win rate data is for solo 8s que.(Since you can't spectate random games. Would have made this so much quicker.)

 

I was looking to confirm a couple of suspicions that I had:

 

1.In the current game state DPS pressure is the best way to win games.

2. Regardless of premade' s or que manipulation. Individual performance matters more than the players on the team.

3. If your personal win rate is below 50%, that is totally on you and most games your getting carried.

4. The average DPS player is around 4K DPS.

5. Average DPS above 5k will net a positive win rate (51%)

6. The map selection of the game is not Random. That it is in a playlist of sorts. (Data coming later)

7. After a certain number of wins the game essentially forces a loss/Matchmaking get's tougher. (Forced Win %)

8. After a certain number of losses the game essentially forces a win/Matchmaking get's easier. (Forced win %)

9. Based on 7 and 8 this is why we have such imbalanced games at times.

 

I don't have enough games yet to draw a conclusion, but just going off what I have they all are pointing toward being true. 3 and 5 need much more data. As I have taken lower dps players that appear regularly in my games.

 

Around 200 games should be enough to come to definitive conclusions on what is going on.

Edited September 8, 2022 by TmoneyTime

6. The map selection of the game is not Random. That it is in a playlist of sorts. (Data coming later)

 

I'm very curious about your data on this. I collected data last expansion on this subject, and found that overall map frequency is very even.

 

In terms of map selection, you'd have to do a runs analysis to disprove randomness. I did one on a dataset of 214 games, and it passed (i.e. data was random), but I realized while doing so that the dataset itself was imperfect, because it relied only on my personal experience over several weeks. A proper dataset would require continuous queuing for 24-48 hours (however long it took to reach the desired n in one go), maybe in shifts with a buddy or two.

Correlation is not causation and the date you are collecting is insufficient to draw any conclusions around play style. A High dps number from a team may simply be indicative of more experienced players in better gear who are more likely to know the strategies and tactics of how to win a warzone. You have no way to measure that. You also have no way to measure how many objective players there were on the teams. In every win there may simply have been more objective players on the winning side and the higher dps numbers, beyond a certain baseline, were irrelevant to winning/losing.

 

However its trivial to observe that DPS is important, you have to clear the door on voidstar to cap it. Similarly someone has to recognise when the door is unguarded, when to stun the last defender, when to switch targets so defenders die together, how to leave the farmer at 10% health so he runs and spends 30 seconds getting out of combat and regening rather than just dying and instantly respawning at full even when to die as a defender so there is a constant stream of people interrupting caps.

 

Professional match analysis require days of people collecting video and biometric data that is reviewed by teams of experienced analysts and coaches to draw its conclusions not just "the side that kicked the ball most tends to win so lets kick the ball more and we'll win"

 

Warzones are lost when the amount of number farmers and objective hunters are wildly unbalanced which is why premades are so toxic since they reduce the likelihood of balanced games.

I'm very curious about your data on this. I collected data last expansion on this subject, and found that overall map frequency is very even.

 

In terms of map selection, you'd have to do a runs analysis to disprove randomness. I did one on a dataset of 214 games, and it passed (i.e. data was random), but I realized while doing so that the dataset itself was imperfect, because it relied only on my personal experience over several weeks. A proper dataset would require continuous queuing for 24-48 hours (however long it took to reach the desired n in one go), maybe in shifts with a buddy or two.

 

Yeah I plan to use Streams for the data. As long as its on the same server, if there is a play list in theory it should start looping around and look the same.

Edited September 8, 2022 by TmoneyTime

 

Professional match analysis require days of people collecting video and biometric data that is reviewed by teams of experienced analysts and coaches to draw its conclusions not just "the side that kicked the ball most tends to win so lets kick the ball more and we'll win"

.

 

This is actually incorrect. I'll give a real world example. NFL Teams that have home games win 56.9% of the time.(2002-2018)

 

There's not room for interpretation. Its a simple fact. What the data is saying is that the team with the highest dps wins 65% of the time. Given enough games there will be an equal split of different playstyles on each team. We are isolating Damage as the variable.

 

Now in turn you could argue that, the reason why this happens is due to better players, and better objective players would in theory have a higher win rate, but that's not what I'm asking.

 

Im asking a simple yes/no statement.

Does the team with the higher dps win more or loose more.

 

If you want to make your own data about objective players etc go ahead.

Edited September 8, 2022 by TmoneyTime

The question I asked my-self when making this project was:

 

In the games current state of player skill, teams, and meta. What playstyle achieves a higher overall win rate, while seeing what the true win rate data is for solo 8s que.(Since you can't spectate random games. Would have made this so much quicker.)

 

I was looking to confirm a couple of suspicions that I had:

 

1.In the current game state DPS pressure is the best way to win games.

2. Regardless of premade' s or que manipulation. Individual performance matters more than the players on the team.

3. If your personal win rate is below 50%, that is totally on you and most games your getting carried.

4. The average DPS player is around 4K DPS.

5. Average DPS above 5k will net a positive win rate (51%)

6. The map selection of the game is not Random. That it is in a playlist of sorts. (Data coming later)

7. After a certain number of wins the game essentially forces a loss/Matchmaking get's tougher. (Forced Win %)

8. After a certain number of losses the game essentially forces a win/Matchmaking get's easier. (Forced win %)

9. Based on 7 and 8 this is why we have such imbalanced games at times.

 

I don't have enough games yet to draw a conclusion, but just going off what I have they all are pointing toward being true. 3 and 5 need much more data. As I have taken lower dps players that appear regularly in my games.

 

Around 200 games should be enough to come to definitive conclusions on what is going on.

 

I would agree, or say yes, to all of your points. The only thing I would add is in regards to 6, I do think that there is a playlist of sorts, but that playlist is determined by class played. Just speaking from experience, because I have a tendency to play all classes, a Guardian/Jugg, for instance, may get hypergate, voidstar, and huttball more consistently vs say a slinnger/sniper, who may get alderaan or a yavin style map more regularly.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Nickodemous

You're just tracking correlation. And, as i think anyone would logically expect, high damage correlates with wins. There is not a comparable objective stat (objective points are random and not reliable), so your thesis or hypothesis of 'farming dps being more productive towards wins vs trying to play objectives' is not achieved by your tracking.

 

Aka: Correlation does not imply causation.

 

Now that said, a good damage dealing team undoubtedly helps winning. Its just usually not the damage dealers, but rather a couple or so objective players using the distraction and uptime gained by the damage dealers. Fact is, its a team game. You need dmg dealers, tanks/heals, and a few sweaty objectivers to win most games, or at least 2 out of those 3.

 

A better, but still flawed test would be to play 20 warzones as every spec, do 10 objectively and 10 dpsly. I think youll find some classes help win more via objectives (conc op) and others help more selling out for dps.

Back from Vacation.

 

Project is on hold until PVP Gearing exploits are fixed as the data is inconsistent right now.