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Canonical Choices


FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
03.13.2021 , 09:56 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by vallixas View Post
Actually yes, many of the default choices in those games are canon. And the developer usually establishes the canon after the next title releases as to not invalidate people's choices during it's run. They have done so with Dragon Age, Origins has a canon warden who is the Dalish Elf, despite giving us the choice to chose our race. Alistair is the canonical king etc https://twitter.com/BioMarkDarrah/st...64515717873665. The books and comics also follow this canon. We could also choose in the original Kotor games, but they still went with a canon in the end. This applies to not just Bioware games. In most games the default choice is considered the canon, most recently Assassins Creed. It is this way for continuity reasons. The Wikis, follow the general rule Lucas established himself; Lightside is always canon in any game with choices, and Bioware despite not outright saying it continues to follow this rule. The Knight is clearly the canonical Outlander as shown in all the trailers. Arcann and Senya are assumed to be saved as they are alongside the Knight in Echoes as well.
Spoiler
Hell the entire KOTFE expansion is most fitting for Knight, and seems out of place for all other parties involved. It's not like we should be surprised by any of this. We already know the Empire loses for one. We already know a world state where the empire has killed or enslaved everyone is not happening lol
Dragon Age has no canon, a default world state does not constitute a canon and I cannot stress that enough. As far as the comics are concerned, they use their own world state. Developers have said the events still happen in different world states, just not in the way they happened in the comics, like Alistair meeting his father regardless of whether or not he is a King or if he remained as a Grey Warden.

KOTOR had a canon because of it being in Star Wars, neither of Bioware original IPs have a canon Shepard/Ryder or a canon Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor, again. A default world state does not mean its canon! Asssassin's Creed is another deal entirely, that is a saga that didn't even began as an RPG and as I understand they had promised not to invalidate people's choice. A promise that was broken, and they were rightfully criticized for it. As far as this game again, the developers have gone out of their way to not establish a canon, marketing material does not constitute continuity. Once again, using fan wikis is not an argument so I'm not even going to address that. And the Empire doesn't have to win even if you play as Imperial, the Empire could still fall apart despite your best efforts.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
03.13.2021 , 09:58 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by rashencyberspeed View Post
I think it's meant to be a mutually exclusive case where whoever canonically wins on Quesh is determined by who the player plays as.
This is the case with Quesh, as I understand it.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

vallixas's Avatar


vallixas
03.13.2021 , 10:21 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
Dragon Age has no canon, a default world state does not constitute a canon and I cannot stress that enough. As far as the comics are concerned, they use their own world state. Developers have said the events still happen in different world states, just not in the way they happened in the comics, like Alistair meeting his father regardless of whether or not he is a King or if he remained as a Grey Warden.

KOTOR had a canon because of it being in Star Wars, neither of Bioware original IPs have a canon Shepard/Ryder or a canon Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor, again. A default world state does not mean its canon! Asssassin's Creed is another deal entirely, that is a saga that didn't even began as an RPG and as I understand they had promised not to invalidate people's choice. A promise that was broken, and they were rightfully criticized for it. As far as this game again, the developers have gone out of their way to not establish a canon, marketing material does not constitute continuity. Once again, using fan wikis is not an argument so I'm not even going to address that. And the Empire doesn't have to win even if you play as Imperial, the Empire could still fall apart despite your best efforts.
But this is false as has been stated by the dev himself, as has been followed by the comics itself, there is a confirmed Dragon Age canon. We have the books we have the default state we have the official word of the dev. Not sure what's left for you to argue.

As for Assassins Creed the default Eivor when you choose to randomize the selection, is always female Eivor, likewise the devs confirmed she is the canon Eivor. And Male Eivor is but a glorified skin of a dead being reincarnated as female Eivor LOL (they even confirm this in-game which actually was sort of bizarre because they pretty much tell players male Eivor doesn't really exist and the player is just wearing an alternate skin). Reinforced further by the fact certain characters in-game will refer to Male Eivor as "she" and "her" instead of him, multiple times.

Back on the subject of the Empire, they would never make the majority of the choices on the Empire side canon. Not ever. Empire players are always assumed to make darkside choices. Playing as a LS sith/DS jedi is but flavor for us. All of these roles are assumed to play their proper roles. They would never use an Empire state because that would destroy any continuity. Being that you can pretty much kill off most important characters.

That's why they made the right choice with choosing LS canon for SWTOR to build on from the original Kotors. There was really no other way. This game might be the last in Legends, and this discussion might not ultimately matter in the long run (unless someone decides to produce books or comics later on). But if it were to continue in another product you better believe the following:

"In side-choosing games such as the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series and Dark Forces saga where the player has the choice between light side and dark side, as of yet, the light side ending has been verified as canonical by Lucasfilm in all games."

Would hold as it did for Kotor and every other choiced based Star Wars game. There's no doubt in my mind regardless of our choices, regardless of our romances if they were to produce another game

Spoiler

Atajji's Avatar


Atajji
03.13.2021 , 09:05 PM | #14
This game has no established canon. That said, I think the SW would mostly make DS choices but there is a quest early on where an instructor praises him/her for a light side choice. Never waste a resource.

Atajji's Avatar


Atajji
03.13.2021 , 09:48 PM | #15
Or, to be clear, there is no canon in-game except what the devs have established themselves. The Hero of Tython defeats Vitiate on Dromund Kaas and the Warrior receives a message about it shortly after he defeats Darth Baras. There is no option to spare Darth Thanaton at the end of the Inquisitor storyline. There is no option for the SW to kill a certain companion for his betrayal. And Tyresius wasn’t killed by the bounty hunter on Tatooine (however much I wish that was an option).

Those things decided by players are mostly a matter of personal taste.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
03.14.2021 , 05:17 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Atajji View Post
Those things decided by players are mostly a matter of personal taste.
It actually doesn't matter *how* the players make those choices (personal taste, preplanned path even though the player wouldn't choose that option, dice(1), whatever). All that matters is that the *players* make the choices.

So the definitive version of what happens in the Dark Council chamber at the end of the Inquisitor story is that:
Spoiler

The Darth-name title itself is not definitive, of course, since the player (and only the player) has control over which of the three titles is granted.(2)

(1) If you have a three-sided coin, feel free to use that instead of dice.

(2) Yes, even now, all three are available. https://i.imgur.com/6afPhCd.jpg was taken on a character that I began *after* 5.0 added the alignment toggle knob thing.
Not really what you think.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
?REDO FROM START
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

EAFSAMWISE's Avatar


EAFSAMWISE
03.26.2021 , 09:00 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by vallixas View Post
Actually yes, many of the default choices in those games are canon. And the developer usually establishes the canon after the next title releases as to not invalidate people's choices during it's run. They have done so with Dragon Age, Origins has a canon warden who is the Dalish Elf, despite giving us the choice to chose our race. Alistair is the canonical king etc https://twitter.com/BioMarkDarrah/st...64515717873665. The books and comics also follow this canon. We could also choose in the original Kotor games, but they still went with a canon in the end. This applies to not just Bioware games. In most games the default choice is considered the canon, most recently Assassins Creed. It is this way for continuity reasons. The Wikis, follow the general rule Lucas established himself; Lightside is always canon in any game with choices, and Bioware despite not outright saying it continues to follow this rule. The Knight is clearly the canonical Outlander as shown in all the trailers. Arcann and Senya are assumed to be saved as they are alongside the Knight in Echoes as well.
Spoiler
Hell the entire KOTFE expansion is most fitting for Knight, and seems out of place for all other parties involved. It's not like we should be surprised by any of this. We already know the Empire loses for one. We already know a world state where the empire has killed or enslaved everyone is not happening lol
Wait so which is it? Is light-side the "canon" for everyone or is it just "canon" for pub-side and the dark side is canon for imp side? Also I agree with the Knight being the "canonical" storyline, especially with how the emperor is consistently the chief antagonist throughout that story and in the expacs and how despite being more personal and specific in their relationships with the Knight, Kira and Scourge become universally available and show up to everyone regardless. It just doesn't fit well in that part if you're not playing as a knight, especially since any other comps for other classes who played roles similar to those played by Kira and Scourge (romance in Kira's case, and Scourge joins the knight to begin with bc he specifically had a vision that the knight would be the one to destroy the emperor, not to mention he's the only class companion in the whole game to have had a connection to Revan), would be exclusive to those classes (I.e.Jaesa, Nadia Grell, Sahara Zavros, Khem Val, etc). The Jedi Knight seems in the best position to be connected to the overall plot of the game as a whole.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
03.26.2021 , 12:56 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by EAFSAMWISE View Post
Wait so which is it? Is light-side the "canon" for everyone or is it just "canon" for pub-side and the dark side is canon for imp side? Also I agree with the Knight being the "canonical" storyline, especially with how the emperor is consistently the chief antagonist throughout that story
If by putting quotes around canon, you mean so-called canon, I'd accept it. Some people have called it so, therefore it is, indeed, so-called canon.

That doesn't suffice to make it actually canon, i.e. *definitive*, though, and it's not the sort of thing that BioWare should busy itself with establishing. The reason given for the preview trailers for KotFE/ET/after using that particular character is really simple: the character they chose looks the same in all the trailers, and doesn't look like any of the principal NPCs, so he's easy to recognise. That it's a JK is simply that it must be *something*, and JK is what they chose.

Concluding from that choice that JK is in any way *definitive* presupposes that BioWare wanted to define one particular class / sex / species combination as *definitive* in some way. And clearly BioWare are wrong, because Tikreva'tarsil is the One True Outlander Jedi Knight.
Not really what you think.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
?REDO FROM START
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

rashencyberspeed's Avatar


rashencyberspeed
03.26.2021 , 03:50 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by EAFSAMWISE View Post
Wait so which is it? Is light-side the "canon" for everyone or is it just "canon" for pub-side and the dark side is canon for imp side? Also I agree with the Knight being the "canonical" storyline, especially with how the emperor is consistently the chief antagonist throughout that story and in the expacs and how despite being more personal and specific in their relationships with the Knight, Kira and Scourge become universally available and show up to everyone regardless. It just doesn't fit well in that part if you're not playing as a knight, especially since any other comps for other classes who played roles similar to those played by Kira and Scourge (romance in Kira's case, and Scourge joins the knight to begin with bc he specifically had a vision that the knight would be the one to destroy the emperor, not to mention he's the only class companion in the whole game to have had a connection to Revan), would be exclusive to those classes (I.e.Jaesa, Nadia Grell, Sahara Zavros, Khem Val, etc). The Jedi Knight seems in the best position to be connected to the overall plot of the game as a whole.
Valixas doesn't understand canon as well as they think they do. (I'm 100% sure the relationship of BioWare's novels in relation to the games is "canon to the extent that player choice is not contradicted".)

Plain and simple, there isn't any canonical choices to this game. Light side or dark side, Jedi Knight outlander or not, that's up to YOU. Nobody else.

Atajji's Avatar


Atajji
03.27.2021 , 08:52 PM | #20
The basic premise of the game is canon. The broad strokes of the game’s story is canon. The PCs exist in the game’s world even if you’re not playing them but not much can be known about them definitively. What choices you make in the game cannot be known definitively but the fact your PC made a choice at a given moment is canon.