Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Canonical Choices


SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
03.28.2021 , 12:06 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Atajji View Post
The basic premise of the game is canon. The broad strokes of the game’s story is canon. The PCs exist in the game’s world even if you’re not playing them but not much can be known about them definitively. What choices you make in the game cannot be known definitively but the fact your PC made a choice at a given moment is canon.
Not necessarily. In KotFE/ET, there are some choices that occur later in the sequence that are only available for you if you make ==> that choice back there.

Spoilerish example:
Spoiler
Not really what you think.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
?REDO FROM START
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Atajji's Avatar


Atajji
03.28.2021 , 02:47 PM | #22
True enough in that specific case but the Eternal Empire still invades and the Eternal Alliance is formed by the Alliance Commander with the help of Theron Shan and Lana Beniko to combat against it.
Spoiler

EAFSAMWISE's Avatar


EAFSAMWISE
03.29.2021 , 10:47 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Not necessarily. In KotFE/ET, there are some choices that occur later in the sequence that are only available for you if you make ==> that choice back there.

Spoilerish example:
Spoiler
The issue with Koth is ambiguous in a lot of cases. Most ppl know I'm a fan of lore/codex completion and so I know there's a codex entry for KOTET titled "Hylo Visz & the Gravestone" where if Koth left it details how Hylo Visz became the new Gravestone captain. This is a bit off-topic but it shows just how fluid and male able the actual plot is since Koth still appears fairly frequently and has substantial dialogue if you keep him. Same w/ Arcann & Senya. It also in many ways negates the idea that characters who have kill options for them can't come back in the future for ppl who didn't kill them.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
03.29.2021 , 12:43 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Atajji View Post
True enough in that specific case but the Eternal Empire still invades and the Eternal Alliance is formed by the Alliance Commander with the help of Theron Shan and Lana Beniko to combat against it.
Spoiler
Yes, agreed, the broad-strokes version is definitive(1). Your assertion was that the fact that you *make* a choice is canon. Not the result of the choice, mind, but the fact that it happened, and the Koth thing shows that even *that* isn't true. If you choose <<== this in the earlier chapter, ==> that choice never happened.

(1) It's definitive, but essentially devoid of meaningful information. "Someone emerged from the part of the galaxy known to the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire. This person defeated first Valkorion, then Arcann, then Vaylin, bringing about the fall of the Eternal Empire."

The *interesting* part is missing. Who was it? Republic? Empire? Force User? Gun user? Male, female? What species? How did this person choose to deal with X, Y, Z, and W? That stuff. None of it is definitive.
Not really what you think.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
?REDO FROM START
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Atajji's Avatar


Atajji
03.29.2021 , 09:39 PM | #25
Spoiler

Atajji's Avatar


Atajji
03.29.2021 , 09:46 PM | #26
The more interesting question would be ‘what choices do you find more satisfying from a narrative standpoint?’ Is it better to play a Force user or a non-Force user in KotFE? Why? Is it a better decision to kill or to spare certain characters when given the option? Does it make more sense to you that your character would side with one faction or the other at a given point?

There are not definitive answers to those questions but they can generate discussion.

EAFSAMWISE's Avatar


EAFSAMWISE
03.30.2021 , 01:37 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Yes, agreed, the broad-strokes version is definitive(1). Your assertion was that the fact that you *make* a choice is canon. Not the result of the choice, mind, but the fact that it happened, and the Koth thing shows that even *that* isn't true. If you choose <<== this in the earlier chapter, ==> that choice never happened.

(1) It's definitive, but essentially devoid of meaningful information. "Someone emerged from the part of the galaxy known to the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire. This person defeated first Valkorion, then Arcann, then Vaylin, bringing about the fall of the Eternal Empire."

The *interesting* part is missing. Who was it? Republic? Empire? Force User? Gun user? Male, female? What species? How did this person choose to deal with X, Y, Z, and W? That stuff. None of it is definitive.
Again, any choice is "plausible" but the developers seem to be almost favoring the idea of it being a Jedi Knight. This is especially cemented w/ the arrival of Kira & Scourge, both of whom have connections which are more personal to the Jedi Knight and that story. Scourge specifically claims to have had a vision where the Jedi Knight was the one to both vanquish the Emperor and seize his throne. Not to mention he's the former Emperor's Wrath and is a known traitor to the Empire so it'd be awkward for him to just waltz in and expect to you to be his ally especially if you're playing as a Sith Warrior and are practically his replacement, Kira is herself a former Imperial and former Child of the Emperor who has major grudges against both. There's practically no way she'd show up and fight alongside the Outlander long-term if the Outlander was Imperial. Perhaps they could both put aside their issues for the "greater good" of the situation regardless of who the Outlander is, but it honestly makes little sense for them to show up to the Outlander of it isn't the Jedi Knight with whom they had more personal ties. The developers seem to regardless be inconspicuously setting up the Jedi Knight as the main "canonical" storyline especially for KOTFE onwards. Not to mention for characters in similar positions with the player in other class stories, they wouldn't show up to other classes, I.e. Ashara Zavros, Khem Val, etc

Eranis's Avatar


Eranis
03.30.2021 , 06:19 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by EAFSAMWISE View Post
Again, any choice is "plausible" but the developers seem to be almost favoring the idea of it being a Jedi Knight. This is especially cemented w/ the arrival of Kira & Scourge, both of whom have connections which are more personal to the Jedi Knight and that story. Scourge specifically claims to have had a vision where the Jedi Knight was the one to both vanquish the Emperor and seize his throne. Not to mention he's the former Emperor's Wrath and is a known traitor to the Empire so it'd be awkward for him to just waltz in and expect to you to be his ally especially if you're playing as a Sith Warrior and are practically his replacement, Kira is herself a former Imperial and former Child of the Emperor who has major grudges against both. There's practically no way she'd show up and fight alongside the Outlander long-term if the Outlander was Imperial. Perhaps they could both put aside their issues for the "greater good" of the situation regardless of who the Outlander is, but it honestly makes little sense for them to show up to the Outlander of it isn't the Jedi Knight with whom they had more personal ties. The developers seem to regardless be inconspicuously setting up the Jedi Knight as the main "canonical" storyline especially for KOTFE onwards. Not to mention for characters in similar positions with the player in other class stories, they wouldn't show up to other classes, I.e. Ashara Zavros, Khem Val, etc
I don't agree that there is some underlying JK canon, even if you could argue that the Vitiate/Valkorion-arc is a more organic continuation of the JK story than of most other class stories (SW coming in close second). As FlameYOL said earlier, default =/= canon. Canon are all the things that happened regardless of possible player choice, for example that all class-characters exist/ed and have a rough story that is the same for everybody, including the companions they meet. Everything else is a default state that could go differently depending on the character you play and how you play said character.

Canonically, Kira and Scourge
Spoiler
No other companions have such strong ties to the Emperor as those two, so they made good catalysts for the story. Them not being there when the Emperor finally gets taken down would diminish their character arc - character arcs which are actually part of what I would call SWTOR canon.

There are more companions everybody gets, not just JK companions and who all play a bigger part in KOTFE/KOTET and later on like
Spoiler
If anything, there might be some Empire favoritism going on, now that I think about it...

BurnoutAAS's Avatar


BurnoutAAS
03.30.2021 , 06:41 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by EAFSAMWISE View Post
Again, any choice is "plausible" but the developers seem to be almost favoring the idea of it being a Jedi Knight. This is especially cemented w/ the arrival of Kira & Scourge, both of whom have connections which are more personal to the Jedi Knight and that story. Scourge specifically claims to have had a vision where the Jedi Knight was the one to both vanquish the Emperor and seize his throne. Not to mention he's the former Emperor's Wrath and is a known traitor to the Empire so it'd be awkward for him to just waltz in and expect to you to be his ally especially if you're playing as a Sith Warrior and are practically his replacement, Kira is herself a former Imperial and former Child of the Emperor who has major grudges against both. There's practically no way she'd show up and fight alongside the Outlander long-term if the Outlander was Imperial. Perhaps they could both put aside their issues for the "greater good" of the situation regardless of who the Outlander is, but it honestly makes little sense for them to show up to the Outlander of it isn't the Jedi Knight with whom they had more personal ties. The developers seem to regardless be inconspicuously setting up the Jedi Knight as the main "canonical" storyline especially for KOTFE onwards. Not to mention for characters in similar positions with the player in other class stories, they wouldn't show up to other classes, I.e. Ashara Zavros, Khem Val, etc
Something to go along with this idea is since this is a legends game. You have the Revan book which brings out Scourge having the vision of the JK character killing Vitiate. So I agree that there is not a set canon for somethings but in my mind this implies that the JK is the class that is the Outlander/Commander.

EAFSAMWISE's Avatar


EAFSAMWISE
03.30.2021 , 08:52 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by BurnoutAAS View Post
Something to go along with this idea is since this is a legends game. You have the Revan book which brings out Scourge having the vision of the JK character killing Vitiate. So I agree that there is not a set canon for somethings but in my mind this implies that the JK is the class that is the Outlander/Commander.
Agreed. It's similar to how you can have Revan and the Exile be the gender and look that you want in KOTOR but there's a "canon" face and gender that BioWare has also established.