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Why Arcann and Senya must die for the good of the Story

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Why Arcann and Senya must die for the good of the Story

Costello's Avatar


Costello
10.21.2016 , 01:41 PM | #1
With our inability to kill Arcann and Senya at the end of Chapter 16, it seems certain they will make a re-appearance in KofET. As we were not able to conclude our epic battle against Arcann in a decisive way this had lead me to believe that it has been set up to tell the Arcann redemption story, through the love of his mother he could be redeemed. I.e. in some ways a flip of the Vader Story where through the love of his son he was redeemed. However the more I think on this the more ridiculous this would make the story.

First off Arcann is a war criminal, if you take his actions in the Galactic War to be outside the scope of this he has still used the fleet and star fortresses to bombard civilians killing women, children, pregnant mothers, kittens etc. There is almost no one that would be able to forgive what he has done. He has order his own troops to kill the other half, wiped out the scions, held the galaxy to ransom, the list is far more extensive and the sufering caused would be so wide spread as his demanding of tributes no doubt has caused starvation and people not getting the correct medical care etc etc. He is the number one bad in the galaxy and has been for 5 years. So this is going to lead to problems.

First the outlander has no authority to pardon him for his crimes. Yes the outlander can forgive him for the carbonite nap, for trying to kill him and his allies, for the loss of his love interest (who has not returned). What they can't pardon him for his the war crimes committed while they were sleeping or done to worlds and people the outlander has nothing to do with. Now he doesn't have to be the one to kill Arcann but he can't say all is right you can go free.

Should the outlander do so he would have a revolt on his hands, everyone that signed up to the alliance to see Arcann brought to justice would feel betrayed (rightfully so) and in the eyes of the galaxy the outlander would be condoning Arcann's actions as alright as long as he says sorry. The military would rebel that instant. 'Yeah you told me to go into battle and risk my life, but you know what why should I risk my life to bring down Vaylin your only going to set her free if we do defeat her. Worse yet you want me to go kill a bunch of soliders just doing their duty and the person ordering it you are going to pardon. Screw you Outlander!'

Morally it is even worse, if the precedent is set by the outlander that you can do whatever you want but when your beaten and lose your forces you say oh I did bad, no one would have any respect for the Outlander. People can steal from you, try to murder you, imprison you for 5 years and as long as they say they are sorry its fine. And they don't even have to say it till you have them beaten. I steal from you and if I get away with it I'm better off, if I get caught all I have to say is I'm sorry and you will forgive me. How could you not you have forgiven a war criminal for you to discipline any of your troops would suggest what they did was worse that what Arcann has done....

Which is also why Senya has to die. She has protected the big bad, she betrayed you and saved the person that has caused unimaginable suffering through out the galaxy. She threaterned to kill Kalyio if her destraction on Zakuul caused harm to the people yet Arcann who has caused the deaths of Billions as well as half her fellow Knights she sees no problem with because his sorry? Unless the Outlander puts her to death he once again loses any control over his troops. How can you discipline anyone for anything if you forgive treason and betrayal.

So in short should Arcann or Senya be allowed to live the Alliance would lose the support of anyone that had been harmed by Zakuul or Arcann, anyone that believed that Justice had to be served and control of any of your forces who realize they are fighting and killing soldiers just so the people responsible can be allowed to live and pardoned because they are sorry they lost. So unless the writing team wish to turn the story into some kiddies fan fiction where saying your sorry makes everything alright, I think it was a mistaken not to offer closure in Chapter 16 with the death Arcann and Senya. Any redemption story line would just have such a detrimental effect on the alliance that the Outlander wouldn't end up in a Galactic Command Situation at the End of Chapter 9 of KotET

drfumblez's Avatar


drfumblez
10.21.2016 , 03:19 PM | #2
It wouldn't be Star Wars if the angry masked bad guy wasn't redeemed by love.

In any case, I have no doubt they will have the story open and split between those that kill Arcann and Senya, and those that do not.

More than that, if Arcann offers a genuine turn towards good... why shouldn't we accept that? He may never be able to atone for his crimes, but is death the best answer? Is it the correct answer? These are questions others have to answer for themselves.

TrueBritannia's Avatar


TrueBritannia
10.21.2016 , 03:38 PM | #3
A fair argument. I've always had a thing for Arcann, so I believe he should be offered the chance to try and atone for some of his crimes rather than simply die. Whether he accepts such an offer is another question. It would be an extremely divisive decision yes...but from my perspective Arcann was never the real enemy.

I have the suspicion that Senya will die anyway at Vaylin's hand in some sort of ultra-emotional scene, but again I've always had soft spot for her.
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fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
10.21.2016 , 04:12 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
Which is also why Senya has to die. She has protected the big bad, she betrayed you and saved the person that has caused unimaginable suffering through out the galaxy.
What is it with so many people in this game having a huge murderbon*r? Seriously, prsions and such exist in Star Wars. No need to violently kill everyone that did bad things or just did something that can be vaguely considered some sort of betrayal.
Ironically if your Outlander is either Imperial (light or dark), a jedi knight (wo goes full darkside for some time regardless) or another darksided Republic caracter they have done undeniably worse things than Senya ever did and probably comitted dozens of war crimes and destroyed the lives of thousands upon thousands of peole as well. Whenever a thread like this comes up I can't help but imagine the outlander saying things like this to his/her alliance:

"As a loyal imperial Sith lord I ruthlessly killed settlers on Taris and then made sure that the planet stayed a toxic wasteland forever. But it's fine I'm the alliance commander now."
"Yes I also stalked my former wife Jaesa Wilsaam, killed and tortured all her friends and family and then phsychologically tortured her and physically beat her up until she completely snapped and became an insane broken husk of a human being. But, hey the s*x I had with the deranged psychopathic shadow of her former self that was left of her was great. And I'm the alliance commander of course so I should be forgiven."
"What's this? Senya saved her defeated and utterly politically depowered sons live after helping me dethrone him? Death sentence! Respect muh Authority!!!!!"

Also Arcann isn't even the big bad. He is as fittingly stated by the real big bad: "A serpent that fancies itself a dragon." The real big bad is actually the Outlander her/himself right now. Or to be more specific s/he is the current host of the big bad.

dcaleb's Avatar


dcaleb
10.21.2016 , 10:46 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by drfumblez View Post
It wouldn't be Star Wars if the angry masked bad guy wasn't redeemed by love.

In any case, I have no doubt they will have the story open and split between those that kill Arcann and Senya, and those that do not.

More than that, if Arcann offers a genuine turn towards good... why shouldn't we accept that? He may never be able to atone for his crimes, but is death the best answer? Is it the correct answer? These are questions others have to answer for themselves.
Why should he get to live after depriving millions, if not billions, of people that same chance? Most of them not even being combatants, just people living their lives on planets he decided to eradicate as a petty '**** you' to the Outlander.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
10.22.2016 , 12:28 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by dcaleb View Post
Why should he get to live after depriving millions, if not billions, of people that same chance? Most of them not even being combatants, just people living their lives on planets he decided to eradicate as a petty '**** you' to the Outlander.
That question was answered.

No matter which class you played, if it wasn't Light Side Republic, you did bad things to innocent people.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

dcaleb's Avatar


dcaleb
10.22.2016 , 01:00 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
That question was answered.

No matter which class you played, if it wasn't Light Side Republic, you did bad things to innocent people.
So far as I know none of the player characters are ever given the opportunity to do anything even remotely on the scale of eradicating the populations of 5 planets just to spite someone. Closest I can think of any Starwars PC ever coming close was the Jedi Exile having the option to screw over a bunch of planets by taking out Peragus.

SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
10.22.2016 , 03:34 AM | #8
Arcann yes , Senya No . Valk Yes . Vaylin Maybe .
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Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
10.22.2016 , 04:02 AM | #9
I disagree, respectfully.
First, the declaration that Senya "betrayed" the Outlander is stupid. It depends on the situation. My main JK is a guy who tried to redeem Vitiate at the end of his class story. So when Senya contacted him, telling him she wanted to try and redeem Arcann, he agreed. No betrayal here. Whether she succeeds or fails to turn him to the light side again is not the question.
The betrayal is subjective. My JK was always open about willing to give Arcann a chance.

Same goes for the "Arcann must die" mentality. I'd much rather have him live on and be forced to try and make amends for the rest of his life rather than stab him in the face and dance on his corpse. Or lock him up for life, powerless and tortured by what he has done or by the fact he can't do anything anymore. And if he is to turn back to the Light, I'll gladly take his help against Senya and his daddy. Helping to stop the mad Empress of Zakuul and the man who's eaten at least two worlds, caused five massive wars (Mandalorian, Revan's Sith, first return of the Sith Empire, Second one and by his manipulation of Arcann he also is responsible of the Eternal Fleet's onslaught.) and has been trying to wipe out all life in the galaxy, well, that counts for something in my book.

As such, if KotET gives us a choice, I know my JK will spare them both, while my DS5 SI will happily skewer them and other characters will decide depending on how important Senya's reason are to them. (Example: My (female) Smuggler has a very strong sense of family, I always played her like that. So when Chapter 16 comes around, she won't shoot Senya. Even though she thinks Arcann is probably too far gone, she believes Senya was a staunch ally during the preceding fights and deserves a chance to try. If she fails, my Smuggler will hunt and kill Arcann. But not Senya if she survived. Because she did what she thought was right. And coming from a character who's done only that since spawning on Ord Mantell, it would be extremely hypocritical to kill her for that.)
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fovzwk's Avatar


fovzwk
10.22.2016 , 04:04 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by dcaleb View Post
So far as I know none of the player characters are ever given the opportunity to do anything even remotely on the scale of eradicating the populations of 5 planets just to spite someone. Closest I can think of any Starwars PC ever coming close was the Jedi Exile having the option to screw over a bunch of planets by taking out Peragus.
*cough* Releasing the world razor for some cheap green pants *cough*
*cough* Destroying Makeb to spite the Archon *cough*
*cough* Approving of the use of that Balmorran superweapon which if used would turn Balmorra into a lifeless wasteland*cough*
*cough* Betraying the Voss mystic and siding with Sel Makor, the evil entity that wants to devour all life on Voss, instead*cough*
And of course the crime only the worst of beings yould commit: killing 100 Jawas while partying with the party Jawa.