Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

SWTOR Loot System

atarnish's Avatar


atarnish
09.18.2021 , 10:15 AM | #1
Hello,

I want to start this by saying this is intended for the Dev's. I have played this game since Release and always thought SWTOR was a good game. At a time I even thought it spanked WoW when it was still popular. What has always hindered SWTOR is having a smaller player base. I will proceed to explain why this loot system rejects new players, rejects returning players, and ruins end game.

When I first started leveling SWTOR's end game was lacking. However the story was so good I was leveling so many characters up I didn't notice this issue that those who live and die by end game did. They surged to max level and quit. Those players gave the feedback and a large percentage of players did not try SWTOR and another large percentage never made it to max level. I know those who were there will remember the level 14 on a starter world talking crap about end game.

MMORPGs through history have always had a wonderful nitch for those who like to earn things that give clout. Clout alone has never been enough. Rewards for completing something combined with the prestige of what you took from that experience lasts decades. SWTOR did great with Decorations, Mounts and for a long time Loot. A brilliant thing was also keeping all of the raids tuned to max level so that they did not lose difficulty and also rewarded a decent reward for doing them. Loot is the most prominent thing people seek when running Ops/Raids. A percentage of Raiders came just for the loot. Every Raid team had that guy. When you take loot away as a reward for difficult content. Difficult content stops becoming worth it. The harder it becomes to create a team, the less likely the content will be conquered. There is a huge community of PVE players who love to Raid. This is part of why WoW died in its last expansion. They messed up loot in raids and PVP became the easiest way to achieve a high item level.

The importance of having PVER's is simple to me. I have raided since I was 13 years old. I am now 31. PVER's bring a consistency to your player base. They are always playing and progressing through content. The fact you keep Ops current gives SWTOR a HUGE advantage. When I brought my guild over in December 2011 to join our community in SWTOR (on Bastion) this fact kept us busy clearing content from all of the past expansions. We raided for over a year nonstop and was clearing Nightmare difficulty and we did not finish all the Ops. PVERs giving a consistency to the game and access for new players, returning players, and PVE specific players more access to the content. The game feels more lively do to a consistency of activity. It also keeps the market alive as PVERs of all the different levels will buy consumables or various types. This increases over all interactions in the community which increases sustainability of subscribers/players. PVE Guilds of various levels also increases interactions. The more communities the better for the health of the game as a whole.

A clear and effective loot system bring prestige and rewards to end game content. A typical loot system has leveling up loot at a certain item level lets toss a number out there to make it easier to follow (200 ivl) then as you progress through a 5 level zone the Ilvl should increase subtlety as you level up. So it increases depending on scaling which is a much more complicated thing to get into. By the time you get to max level lets say you're at 200 ilvl. Flash points on a story level should give 205-210, just above leveling up items. The reason for this is to give players a incentive to want to run these flashpoints. its not going to be a large increase in power because it is only a story mode flashpoint. decorations should be rarer drops as well as all other cosmetic and cool bonus items. The reason why you want to increase power levels slowly with each difficulty and increase the chance for bonus rewards, rarer rewards and special only obtainable rewards from the hardest content is because you want to give rewards based on achievement. They're not unobtainable from a casual player who doesn't care nor want nor need high ilvl gear. They will the the individuals farming story mode and veteran flashpoints for decorations every lock out. To a PVER the decorations are a big bonus and the gear is a stepping stone of progression to get to harder and harder content where the gear is needed which makes the gear and content wanted. When the content is wanted the dev's have done a good job and the player base will grow through word of mouth and interactions. For the PVP these follow a very similar process. The vendors of old are a perfect example. Currency from PVP participation, wins, and performance turn into player choice and gearing through PVP. We need a effective loot system back.

I have never seen the game so dead. the channels are quiet. the same 5 guilds spam invite any new players they see. Nearly all if not all guilds are casual guilds. They run a story mode Ops here or there and that's it. The common response is its not worth doing veteran difficulty because you can get loot from pretty much anything else so why go through progression? the answer is repeated and its sad because so many people are returning to the game and finding End Game isn't worth it. It is a sincere plea from a hungry raider who misses being a evil Sith Lord and a heartless Mercenary whos loyalties are to the highest bidder. SWTOR needs a concrete loot system. Masterloot combined with a loot system that gives us rewards for conquering the content. Power has to be involved with the rewards otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Save us Bioware, Lucasarts, EA you are only hope!

Best regards,
Tarnish

Dmnqwk's Avatar


Dmnqwk
09.18.2021 , 07:15 PM | #2
Hi there,

You are attempting to argue a point that Swtor's loot system neglects the fundamental principle of risk/reward in video games and the psychological attainment that causes players to raid, but you're sidetracked by confusing 'loot' with 'gear'.

Since the dawn of MMO gaming, the procedure was level up to max level then collect pre-raid gear a. Then enter Raid A to obtain Gear A, which lets you do Raid B to collect gear B to enter raid C and so on... Now, this is what you personally love, because if you didn't love it you wouldn't be so blind-sided by Swtor deciding to remove that obstacle from raiding.

In Swtor - you obtain 306, then you acquire set bonus and anything beyond that is pretty much personal choice, because it's not needed to clear content. And this, from your description, is anathema to raiding... because you're acting as if there is no motivation to raid...

Nightmare Brontes disagrees.

Swtor has not re-written the psychological aspects of game theory, they have simply changed the stimulus that drives raiders to complete the content. I use Nightmare Brontes as the example of this because she contains a mount that, if you listen to raiding chatter, is highly sought after. Whether it's for personal fulfillment, proof of a player's superiority to others or simply someone thinks it looks nice, the wings of brontes is a mount that shows all Swtor did was remove the barriers for RETURNING raiders and allow people with the competency and skill to complete the content without having to waste time 'gearing up in older content'.

With 6.0, gearing to 306 can be accomplished in a matter of hours, by spending money, or in a week, by spending time. Either way allows you to hit the point at which you start a relatively short gearing process to attain your set bonus. It takes 21'000 tech fragments to earn your 6 piece set bonus, plus tactical, (amplified head excluded) which you can earn at a rate of 800 per day by spending 10 minutes doing a Toborro's Courtyard (400 bonus, 150 gf bonus, dismantling on top) so for a cost of 10 minutes per day you'd have a full set in under 1 month. And at that point, the things you can do for gear offer small bonuses (using 451 enhancements, amplified head, gold amplifiers, purple augments etc) as a percentage of your overall dps. So, essentially, within 1 month at a rate of 5-10 minutes per day, you'd be ready to roll into any content based on your personal knowledge and ability.

The GEAR BARRIER that games previously felt was necessary to motivate players to raid was really just there to force them to spend time in-game, and not a necessity of compulsion to enjoy the game. The wings of brontes, as well as other titles or mounts in nightmare content, on top of the dropping of components worth 35-40million (Oem) on bosses mean a financial incentive to raid is offered (put aside the myth that every player has billions... I know plenty of raiders who need the OEM to fund their in-game endeavours) show that the previous system of 'gear to raid, raid to gear' was simply a way to try and get players to play the game more and NOT a necessity in terms of getting players to raid difficult content.

So while I respect you have an opinion on the subject, I do not believe it is factually correct, and that you are very much locked into a mindset that if you, personally, only 'raid to gear, gear to raid' then it is simply your personal motivation that is lacking in a game which has a very active nightmare raiding scene (whether you participate or not) with players who are motivated sufficiently to continue to do it. If that is not the case, then hopefully you can understand why Swtor has simply chosen to remove the barriers to pinnacle raiding without removing the incentives.

atarnish's Avatar


atarnish
09.20.2021 , 12:18 AM | #3
Well fact is, I have watched chat I have realized there are very few people running ops in general. I have also seen and heard around a few different guilds (which is all that's left) that they are playing other games. SWTOR gearing system is easy and the gearing progression is gone. The great thing about the old system is if you were a story mode player or a player that didn't care about loot you didn't need it. Those who needed it, wanted it for progression. I have played over 200 hours the past couple weeks and the raiding scene is either so small it's very hard to find or it's gone. Raiding one op for a mount is not raiding and shows the issues in the raiding/pve in the system. The end game is essentially dead. Might as well just pvp. All they need to do is ruin the balancing and give a couple classes 1 shot potential and we got ourselves shadowlands. We have ilvl gearing combined with titanforging.

Dmnqwk's Avatar


Dmnqwk
09.20.2021 , 09:54 PM | #4
In your opinion.

The raiding scene is still vibrant enough that perhaps it is simply when you play or where you play that's the issue. I see SM, HM and MM ops going on sufficiently that should I choose to, I could do about 10 raids a weekend.

Opiklo's Avatar


Opiklo
09.21.2021 , 04:32 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Dmnqwk View Post
Hi there,



With 6.0, gearing to 306 can be accomplished in a matter of hours, by spending money, or in a week, by spending time. Either way allows you to hit the point at which you start a relatively short gearing process to attain your set bonus. It takes 21'000 tech fragments to earn your 6 piece set bonus, plus tactical

apex predator says no. emergency power says no.

the gearing system is inconsistant. "discriminates" certain classes. it's tedious.

i call the game loot manager 3000.
RiP Forum

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
09.21.2021 , 05:38 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Opiklo View Post
apex predator says no. emergency power says no.
"Gearing to 306" is simply the process of getting your Item Rating to 306 which can be done with whatever random junk you get from FP bosses, Renown crates, world drops (up to 276), conquest reward crates, etc.

Getting a set bonus set is a different challenge, and yes, those two sets (and a few others) are high on the list of major annoyances, but it *isn't* the same challenge as "gearing to 306".
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Opiklo's Avatar


Opiklo
09.21.2021 , 06:58 AM | #7
deleted
RiP Forum

Dmnqwk's Avatar


Dmnqwk
09.21.2021 , 11:54 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Opiklo View Post
apex predator says no. emergency power says no.

the gearing system is inconsistant. "discriminates" certain classes. it's tedious.

i call the game loot manager 3000.
Judging the entirity of the game on a couple of sets is a bit of a skewed statement, but it's not without merit.
Emergency Power took me gambling approximately 210 pieces (or 210'000 tech fragments and 100m credits) to obtain and is definitely a long way off the Tacticians set, which also drops from your weekly conquest awards.

So by placing only a couple of sets behind the old style adage of 'gear to raid, raid to gear' I would consider it a great advertisement for them leaving this outdated philosophy behind and embracing the modern approach Swtor uses of 'raiding for gear is stupid'.

ralphieceaser's Avatar


ralphieceaser
09.21.2021 , 03:16 PM | #9
I completely support the new loot system, it is great because it gives EVERYONE a path to max ilvl and doesnt force people into content they dont want in order to earn that max ilvl.

Coming from WoW where casuals get scraps for gear while the only decent gear is gatekept behind mythic raids and the weekly vault I can absolutely say Swtor is having the superior loot system.

Not only because we can gear our character fast and only having a small % of our power take a while from grinding amplifiers/perfect mods/enchancements, but because we can gear through all content and scrap the gear we dont want for currency to get the gear we want.

Please do not ever go back to outdated loot systems where loot is kept only for the "elite", if people no longer want to raid then maybe YOU SHOULDNT FORCE THEM TO DO IT FOR LOOT.

People should do the content they enjoy, and they can only do that if they get decent rewards from all content instead of just one type

Pricia's Avatar


Pricia
09.25.2021 , 04:55 PM | #10
I love the loot system and I definitely wouldn't have put so many hours in it if I couldn't improve my gear without raiding.

Gearing through raids is what made me quit every other MMO to date. Raiding should be fun and not an exercise of frustration because you have to 1) hope that your piece will drop, 2) actually be awarded/win the drop.

I have no problem with the best amplifiers components dropping only in raids though - but let the average PvEr get their set bonus as long as they put in the hours, even if they can't raid/group. Even if it takes longer.

That being said, that two BiS sets only drop in ops totally sucks.