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Resolve bar rework

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Resolve bar rework

PVPsage's Avatar


PVPsage
06.18.2022 , 07:36 AM | #31
RIP Skettingles.

Skettitangles's Avatar


Skettitangles
06.18.2022 , 04:23 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by PVPsage View Post
RIP Skettingles.
You skank tanked very well, thanks for the duels.

Resolve still could do with an update in 8v8 pvp 😉

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Crazykidddd's Avatar


Crazykidddd
06.29.2022 , 12:47 AM | #33
Regardless of all the points made in this thread, cc remains an abused mechanic and its largely due to resolve bar being pretty much useless. PvP is not a 1v1, so all the talk about less cc means **** when you are getting mezzed, pushed, pulled, rooted, stunned, slowed and treated pretty much like a ragdoll on repeat, all while being attacked by multiple people at once. By the time Resolve bar activates you're either already dead or about to be, and when you come back from spawn its already gone and the whole thing starts all over again.
And btw this isn't just when you're fighting multiple targets. I love hearing people say stuns can't be spammed. KEK.
Just look at PT with their 15 sec hard stun, reduced aoe hard stun, and 3 sec hard stun on grapple, and thats without the 5 sec hard stun available to them. Or maybe look at the retarded amounts of tanks in q who have multiple stuns on a relatively short cd, or should we visit our friends the ops or sins who have cc's on stupid low cds.
Another thing to consider: you might think that when it comes down to the stun vs other better utility choice in the skill trees, that people are obviously going to pick the better one, and so there will be less cc in the game. To assume that would be to sorely underestimate the noobs in the game, picking all kinds of random **** in the trees that dont make sense and doing nothing but cc'ing people and running away.
Maybe this doesnt happen to noobs in pvp bcs who needs stuns to beat em, but for experienced players pvp is a ****fest of getting perma cc'd to death on repeat.
Making resolve bar activate after one hard stun would be the best step forward. If you need to keep someone cc'd for more than one stun's worth, its time to L2P, stop making excuses for people who need cc to do anything in this game, there's no point having as much as there is, it just encourages mediocrity, fosters a whole community of players who haven't a clue how to play the game bcs they rely on cc to do anything, and makes the game much less enjoyable bcs who wants to sit stunned, unable to do anything over and over and over.
As far as ranked goes, timing your cc on a healer isnt skill, it takes as little as a quick voice chat heads up. so go bother someone else with your ranked excuses.
By the way, this is besides the fact that resolve isnt even working "properly", must be a bug or something going around because you can now get cc'd during white bar. Isn't that something.

ZUHFB's Avatar


ZUHFB
06.29.2022 , 02:05 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Crazykidddd View Post
Maybe this doesnt happen to noobs in pvp bcs who needs stuns to beat em, but for experienced players pvp is a ****fest of getting perma cc'd to death on repeat.
Then why do you die if you are so experienced? Why don't you remember how much cd they have on stun? Could just make a timer for it too. Fact is that the only class who has a lot of cc right now is deception. Every other class has basically no CC.

If you get gang banged on then you were out of place. You were mispositioned. No, you should not survive a 1v4? Even if you are way better.
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joshrva's Avatar


joshrva
06.29.2022 , 07:05 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUHFB View Post
Then why do you die if you are so experienced? Why don't you remember how much cd they have on stun? Could just make a timer for it too. Fact is that the only class who has a lot of cc right now is deception. Every other class has basically no CC.

If you get gang banged on then you were out of place. You were mispositioned. No, you should not survive a 1v4? Even if you are way better.
He's talking from a regs perspective I assume. Tracking "how much cd they have on stun" is unreasonable. It also doesn't matter how many stuns other classes have, when there are 8 players, that usually means 8 stuns, and guess what? you only have one breaker (unless you're a sorc). And that one breaker will usually be on cd.

I think this whole thing is just a matter of perspective. I agree the stuns in regs can be overbearing and annoying sometimes, especially with stun breaker having such a long cooldown. However, in solo or team ranked, I feel they are perfectly balanced the way they are. If you were white barred after one stun in solo or team ranked, simply nothing would die. CC is how you play ranked, and reducing the resolve needed to white bar to one hard stun would be ridiculous.

There are two possible solutions here. Either make the resolve bar changes that the op suggests exclusively for regs, or make breaker reset at death.

ZUHFB's Avatar


ZUHFB
06.29.2022 , 09:16 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by joshrva View Post
He's talking from a regs perspective I assume. Tracking "how much cd they have on stun" is unreasonable. It also doesn't matter how many stuns other classes have, when there are 8 players, that usually means 8 stuns, and guess what? you only have one breaker (unless you're a sorc). And that one breaker will usually be on cd.
Yeah I mean, obviously.
Most class don't actually take the stun anymore, mara as the most famous of course. If you don't have a breaker for a situation like that then, you were mispositioned and or wasted your breaker. Yes, it is way to much to expect from a regs player - doesn't make it less true.

It's like snave always does, he rolls into 5 people who kill him within seconds and then either his team wasn't their or the game is stupid - stupid because he couldn't 1v5 them? Yeah, in league if you run down mid lane you can't be surprised that you die? What kind of logic is this.
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joshrva's Avatar


joshrva
06.29.2022 , 10:35 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUHFB View Post
Yeah I mean, obviously.
Most class don't actually take the stun anymore, mara as the most famous of course. If you don't have a breaker for a situation like that then, you were mispositioned and or wasted your breaker. Yes, it is way to much to expect from a regs player - doesn't make it less true.

It's like snave always does, he rolls into 5 people who kill him within seconds and then either his team wasn't their or the game is stupid - stupid because he couldn't 1v5 them? Yeah, in league if you run down mid lane you can't be surprised that you die? What kind of logic is this.
In ranked, I would completely agree. Dying early in a hard stun is either because you were mispositioned and or wasted your breaker (I have to specify early, because dying in a hardstun later in the game is natural if you're the focused target, you won't always live forever). But in regs, it's a completely different story.

Sure, maybe everyone doesn't take hardstun. That doesn't change the fact that there will likely be two or three hardstuns ready to be used on you if the enemy team so desires. Granted, most regs players aren't experienced to coordinate their hardstuns well, but my point still stands that hard stuns are commonplace in regs. Not even to mention roots and slows.

Your point about mispositioning is mostly moot. Yes, running into 1v5s is dumb. But it doesn't even matter if you get hardstunned there, you will die anyway. My argument is that even in a fair 5v5 or 6v6 or something in regs if a player marks you, you will get stunned, and stunned, and then stunned again. Breaker is on a 2m30 cooldown I believe. You can, and will, be chained hardstunned much more often than that. Wasting breaker is a thing in ranked, yes, but in regs, the cooldown is so long that even if you use it smartly you will still not have it every time you need it.

I think you underestimate how many classes still have hardstuns. Let's count.

Operative - 1, usually. Always 1 if Leth unless player is dumb.
Sniper - 0
Juggernaut - 1
Maurauder - 0
Assassin - 2 or 3
Sorcerer - 1
Merc - 0
Powertech - 1, 2, or 3

As you can see, 5 out of 8 classes still have a hardstun. I wouldn't call that
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUHFB View Post
Every other class has basically no CC.
In addition, two of the three classes that don't have hardstun (sniper and merc) aren't all that common anyway. There has to be an asterisk next to merc not having hardstun too, because they still have net which is usually worse. The only common class that doesn't have a hardstun is mara. The most common mara spec, however, does have a 95% slow on a relatively short cd lol. Again, I wouldn't call that no cc.

Crazykidddd's Avatar


Crazykidddd
06.29.2022 , 07:35 PM | #38
I would love to hear why you think lethality should not be taking Flash bang.
Also, you say that without stuns no one in ranked would die. First off, with the current burst meta, any class can die within one hard stun multiple times over.
And second, all it really means is that players will have to coordinate with each other better, which would improve player's skill levels. Stuns are currently a crutch in the game. With classes like PT having access to a 5 sec ttk, I find it very hard to believe that one team couldnt obliterate an enemy within one hard stun.

ZUHFB's Avatar


ZUHFB
06.29.2022 , 10:56 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by joshrva View Post
In ranked, I would completely agree. Dying early in a hard stun is either because you were mispositioned and or wasted your breaker (I have to specify early, because dying in a hardstun later in the game is natural if you're the focused target, you won't always live forever). But in regs, it's a completely different story.

Sure, maybe everyone doesn't take hardstun. That doesn't change the fact that there will likely be two or three hardstuns ready to be used on you if the enemy team so desires. Granted, most regs players aren't experienced to coordinate their hardstuns well, but my point still stands that hard stuns are commonplace in regs. Not even to mention roots and slows.

Your point about mispositioning is mostly moot. Yes, running into 1v5s is dumb. But it doesn't even matter if you get hardstunned there, you will die anyway. My argument is that even in a fair 5v5 or 6v6 or something in regs if a player marks you, you will get stunned, and stunned, and then stunned again. Breaker is on a 2m30 cooldown I believe. You can, and will, be chained hardstunned much more often than that. Wasting breaker is a thing in ranked, yes, but in regs, the cooldown is so long that even if you use it smartly you will still not have it every time you need it.

I think you underestimate how many classes still have hardstuns. Let's count.

Operative - 1, usually. Always 1 if Leth unless player is dumb.
Sniper - 0
Juggernaut - 1
Maurauder - 0
Assassin - 2 or 3
Sorcerer - 1
Merc - 0
Powertech - 1, 2, or 3

As you can see, 5 out of 8 classes still have a hardstun. I wouldn't call that In addition, two of the three classes that don't have hardstun (sniper and merc) aren't all that common anyway. There has to be an asterisk next to merc not having hardstun too, because they still have net which is usually worse. The only common class that doesn't have a hardstun is mara. The most common mara spec, however, does have a 95% slow on a relatively short cd lol. Again, I wouldn't call that no cc.
I see your logic, but this has hardly anything to do with whitebar? If you die in 1 stun then what does it matter? If you say oh maybe I'd have been whitebarred from slows, then they would've stunned earlier.

Again, you are right. But that doesn't relate to whitebar changes imo.
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joshrva's Avatar


joshrva
06.30.2022 , 03:24 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Crazykidddd View Post
I would love to hear why you think lethality should not be taking Flash bang.
Also, you say that without stuns no one in ranked would die. First off, with the current burst meta, any class can die within one hard stun multiple times over.
And second, all it really means is that players will have to coordinate with each other better, which would improve player's skill levels. Stuns are currently a crutch in the game. With classes like PT having access to a 5 sec ttk, I find it very hard to believe that one team couldnt obliterate an enemy within one hard stun.
I literally didn't say anything about lethality not taking flash bang. Flash bang is on an entirely different tier than hardstun. To take hardstun you only have to give up an evasion buff (2s longer evasion on leth, 15 second cooldown reduction and 50% movement speed increase on conc). To take flashbang, you have to give up holotraverse (gap closer), and a lot of operatives choose to still take holotraverse.

No, no one would die in one hardstun unless they're the type of global bait that already dies in one hardstun or without a stun. I don't think you have ever played rank based on the things you have said. You regstars have the misconception about ranked in that it's just a numbers game and whoever can number fluff the best wins. This is entirely false. In ranked, players actually know how to use their dcds, they know how to kite, they know how to peal, etc. You will not kill anyone if every class can run around whitebarred after one hardstun or 3 roots.

You use AP PT as an example to your argument, so I will too. AP PT has two stun breakers, regular one and stun breaker on kolto. Currently, you can stun one twice and whitebar them and they will be able to break both of them. Imagine, if one stun whitebarred them, they could break that, be unstunnable for 15s, be stunned and whitebarred again, break new stun, and then be unstunnable for another 15s. That would be 30s of being unstunnable. With their "5 sec ttk," this means they could kill the whole enemy team 1.5 times over without having to sit a single stun.

Sorc is another class that would be broken with one hardstun whitebar. Sorc has 3 breakers, and their staying alive strategy focuses heavily around kiting. If every stun whitebarred them, with their 3 breakers, they would be unstunnable for at least 45s. But it gets worse, because phase walk is on a 60s cooldown, so they will likely be able to use it for their fourth stun. That means 1m15 of not being stunnable. That is ridiculous, when the only way to kill a decent sorc is in a hardstun.

You are partly right in that, yes, players can be killed in one hardstun. They most often are. But you're heavily overlooking the fact that in an arena, each player will have at least one breaker, and all of their dcds available at the start. If one stun whitebarred you, the ttk would just be way too high. Additionally, your claim that only being able to hardstun an enemy once will take improved player coordination, this is false. In solo and especially team ranked, chain stunning people takes way more coordination. If you have not played either game mode I do not want to hear your opinion on this, if you have then feel free to challenge me on that and say why you think one hardstun takes more coordination.

Also, saying we're in a burst meta is kinda dumb. The meta in solo ranked will always be "burst," however, two of the 4 meta classes right now aren't even by definition burst, those two being lethality and madness.