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Bracket Changes, and What's Next

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bracket Changes, and What's Next
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

undies's Avatar


undies
05.05.2021 , 08:38 PM | #21
I stopped PvPing when losses no longer counted as 1 out of 15 for the weekly. That didn't really feel much like encouraging participation.

-Bob-'s Avatar


-Bob-
05.05.2021 , 08:55 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by undies View Post
I stopped PvPing when losses no longer counted as 1 out of 15 for the weekly. That didn't really feel much like encouraging participation.
Sorry you couldn't be carried but that has nothing to do with bracket changes.
There are no Victims, Only volunteers!
Better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2021 , 09:06 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by alasamaya View Post
The only discord I "participate" with him is the PVP one on theorycrafter discord. Doesnt say "ranked" it says pvp, they talk about PVP in general. But, as I said, the issue here is about both. Dsync happens in both, broken maps happens in both, lack of attention from devs happens in both.

The state of the PVP in general is just sad. And is not the game itself, is the work devs are putting into it the problem. For example, you remember when it was a monthly report about accounts banned for cheating here in this forum? What happened? It required so much effort that devs stopped caring about it? It had great feedback, remember? Ranked pvpers were happy about it and....it dissapeared.

Its a little example how much "they care" about pvp (And notice that was ranked PVP, and you said they "hear" ranked pvpers)
I didn’t say it was perfect communication or they listened to all the feed back for ranked. But when you compare it to Regs, it’s 1000% better than what they do for regs. You would know from the discord channel that it’s 99.99% ranked players and discussion. The things Chris “fixes” or takes feed back on that he responds to is always ranked pvp, not regs.

I agree that there is little care for pvp in general. Neither ranked or regs get the attention they deserve from the dev team and communication is horrible, especially here on the forums. But 99.99% of the communication and attention that does happen is focused on ranked compared to regs. It’s not good for either, but it’s abysmal for regs.
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a “How to PvP Guide”

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.05.2021 , 09:10 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by -Bob- View Post
Sorry you couldn't be carried but that has nothing to do with bracket changes.
a deaf blind mute can be carried. the win ratio is something like 1:3 or 1:4. but that's me running around doing 380k (not sure about the decimal) in a 4-round AHG on a concentration sent played very poorly (have to stare at quickbars) with 6-pcs victor's (ghetto) and all of 4 slots augmented. 4 matches per night is pretty easy to squeeze into an hour at all times of day (on SF). the only concession to "seriousness" I made was as close to 700 acc (853) and 1220 alac (1253) as I could get.

I think when he says it's not "fun," he means he's not having "fun," not that he cannot complete the daily. but iunno. some other ppl have said they flat cannot do it in 10 games. I find that very difficult to take seriously.

I noticed a world of difference on IO merc from leveling (taking any old gear that dropped for the ilvl) and then balancing stats, augs, set pcs, and amps. Easily jumped my output 30% all told. verdict is still out on arsenal as I'm bored with it and also out of money trying to get the right amps. so it is very easy to be carried when you're running around effectively hitting things with a pool noodle.

as for the "topic" of the thread, does anyone really need to comment at this point? unlike the other usual issues on this board, the 10-74 is universally disliked by the player base afaik. more so than even the consternation ppl showed when instead of starting season 1 of ranked WZs, BW canceled ranked WZs all together and said "HAI. LET'S DO ARENAS U LAIK MOAR WE PROMISE SNOOCHY BOOCHIES!"

edit: as long as this is going to be a piss thread, no wonder players ignore objectives in quesh. you can't even leap to players on the top ledges. like...ok. I'll just run up the ramp to give my teammate someone to pass to, but while I'm waiting for the slime, let me just sit here and take it in the face from that sage BECAUSE i CANNOT LEAP TO HIM. ditto for standing in mid while ranged just plays fish in a barrel with you from their ledge. I get not letting you leap with the ball. but no leap at all? that's a fundamental part of warrior offensive and defensive abilities. WHAT IN THE HOLY HELL IS QUESH DOING BACK IN THE ROTATION. lmao no wonder no one plays the objectives.
Krack

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
05.05.2021 , 09:11 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by -Bob- View Post
it sounds like coddle culture trying to take over.
yep...

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2021 , 09:13 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by -Bob- View Post
man it is one of the worst changes because i believe it will have a domino effect and not in a positive way.
and something about this line sets off a red flag with me .
100% agree. The domino affect will end be felt all the way to ranked.

At this point they may as well get rid of brackets altogether and boost everyone to 75 with gear and abilities. It looks like merging all reg pvp is their long term solution to dwindling player numbers (which they exacerbate with dumb decisions). If that is the case, then they need to make it as fair as possible for players so they aren’t limited in abilities and gear when facing higher ups.
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a “How to PvP Guide”

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2021 , 09:20 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by ChrisSchmidt View Post

-Chris
Chris, in case you missed it or it wasn’t passed on. Here is a thread with ideas to improve reg pvp.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=992476

Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Bioware, here are a set of steps or a road map for improving pvp in this game. They don’t include ranked, but the benefits would flow into ranked if more people were playing reg pvp and enjoying it.

The lockout and the win/loss change has driven down the player numbers in pvp (from my perspective, maybe your numbers tell a different story?). It’s a failed experiment in its current form and needs to be changed and improved if you want to keep these sort of mechanisms in place. The fundamental problem is you’ve sucked the enjoyment out of pvp.

1. Allow players some sort of choice with map type. Wether that’s direct choice or allowing some maps to be unticked.

2. Allow players who back fill the opportunity to leave without penalty or reward back fillers with a win even if they lose.

3. Change the win/loss back to a points system, but increase the ratio to 3:1 or 4:1. You can even increase the number to complete the weekly to 20.

4. Reward more tech frags for pvp (across the board)

5. Drop gear that is always atleast at or above your irating and not below (if you aren’t going to increase the amount of rewards)

6. Allow pvpers a dedicated route to obtain BiS sets for pvp that don’t require doing pve operations or playing RNG lotto at Kai.

7. Get rid of the lockout in lowbies

8. Add a small amount of tech frags as a reward for doing lowbie pvp

9. Improve the technology so the queue knows if you were disconnected or lagged badly enough that you get bumped out of the match. You shouldn’t get a 15min lock out for that and most other games don’t do it.

10. Improve the matchmaking system and make our hidden ELO visible to us so we can see if it’s working (doesn’t need to be visible to others).

11. Stop putting premades against pugs when there are other premades already in the queue and waiting for pops.

12. For lowbies, boost all players abilities and utilities to lvl 74 and give them access to generic set bonus gear (like Ossus ones and are available from lvl 10 vendors). GW2 does something like this for their pvp. Without a system like this, no one below lvl 50 is going to want to pvp anymore and you are going to kill overall pvp participation and reduce skill even more in lvl 75 pvp.

13. Revamp the medal system and then reward people who play to win. That would mean even if they lose, they may get better rewards, like more tech frags or gear vs people who don’t play to win.

14. Incentivise players to get better through rewards. This could be done by adding new pvp legacy achievements (examples only) :
* interrupting an enemy player healing a team mate
* mitigating damage
* target swapping
* stopping a team scoring with the Hutt ball
* catching a Hutt ball pass in the end zone
* intercepting a Hutt ball pass
* cleansing abilities from a team mate or yourself
* preventing an enemy from capping
* stealing an enemy node
etc, etc, etc

Bioware, you’ve been driving players away from pvp and reducing the enjoyment of players who still play with your big stick approach to fixing problems.
If you really want to make reg pvp viable (again) in swtor, you need to make it fun for players again.

Let me finish by saying, cherry picking player ideas without implementing the rest of the systems people suggest to support their ideas is how you’ve made pvp less fun and arduous. The lock out system would work better if you hadn’t added it in a vacuum and disregarded the rest of the ideas that supported it, like map choice and fixing back fills and matchmaking. Adding a win requirement only made the whole thing worse.

You can fix reg pvp and revitalise players enjoyment again if you are willing to do some work. But if you keep going down this path like reg pvp is an after thought and doesn’t matter to the game, you will kill it for good and that will eventually flow into ranked pvp too.
Feedback seems to be positive for these changes.
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a “How to PvP Guide”

-Bob-'s Avatar


-Bob-
05.05.2021 , 09:35 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
a deaf blind mute can be carried. the win ratio is something like 1:3 or 1:4. but that's me running around doing 380k (not sure about the decimal) in a 4-round AHG on a concentration sent played very poorly (have to stare at quickbars) with 6-pcs victor's (ghetto) and all of 4 slots augmented. 4 matches per night is pretty easy to squeeze into an hour at all times of day (on SF). the only concession to "seriousness" I made was as close to 700 acc (853) and 1220 alac (1253) as I could get.

I think when he says it's not "fun," he means he's not having "fun," not that he cannot complete the daily. but iunno. some other ppl have said they flat cannot do it in 10 games. I find that very difficult to take seriously.

I noticed a world of difference on IO merc from leveling (taking any old gear that dropped for the ilvl) and then balancing stats, augs, set pcs, and amps. Easily jumped my output 30% all told. verdict is still out on arsenal as I'm bored with it and also out of money trying to get the right amps. so it is very easy to be carried when you're running around effectively hitting things with a pool noodle.

as for the "topic" of the thread, does anyone really need to comment at this point? unlike the other usual issues on this board, the 10-74 is universally disliked by the player base afaik. more so than even the consternation ppl showed when instead of starting season 1 of ranked WZs, BW canceled ranked WZs all together and said "HAI. LET'S DO ARENAS U LAIK MOAR WE PROMISE SNOOCHY BOOCHIES!"
Well they didnt say it wasn't fun or they weren't having fun, they simply stated they stopped participating. To me that sounded like someone who expected to lose the majority of the time and realized they wouldn't be rewarded for it so they just stopped playing.
Personally i am not a proponent of rewarding people for losing whether it be in real life or a game, thats just my attitude. I was brought up to work hard for what you want and for me, that hard work ethic carries over, even into games like this. You might might think thats silly, but thats me and my opinion. I'm not expecting anyone to see things my way, i just shoot from the hip.
There are no Victims, Only volunteers!
Better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not
Referral link
Wound in the force/The Bastion/Harbinger/SS

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
05.05.2021 , 09:37 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by JattaGin View Post
When your data shows you that the massive drop of PvP participants correlates with your change to only reward WINS in warzones, then I really think you should buy a round of beer for the whole forum community.
Lowbie pvp died LONG before the daily change and the daily change had nothing to do with the lowbie pvp pop issues.

Lowbie pvp died and has been dead for the past several years because they removed warzone comms/legacy warzone tokens along with pvp gear and then introduced galactic command which was an extremely anti-alt system forcing people to focus only on their mains. Lowbies simply never recovered from that.

If they were to bring back the 4.X system with the warzone comms and the legacy tokens along with pvp gear I guarantee lowbies pop would pick back up instantly.

And to be blunt, if you're pvping for the sake of just completing an easy daily the only requires a single win.....well you should stop pvping because you're clearly not pvping for the sake of pvping.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
05.05.2021 , 09:47 PM | #30
@dev's

You wanna fix the bracket/pop issue? I have the perfect fix for you.

Make all characters whether level 1 or level 75 be level 75 in pvp with all their skills unlocked.

Create a specific zone that is a "pvp" area so the pvp template is unlocked and people can set their hotbars up and set their utilities there. This pvp area can also have striking dummies to practice on as well as a dueling ring for people to duel in between queues.

While you're at it, bring back warzone comms/legacy warzone tokens along with pvp gear and dealing with low level players and pvp gear is a super easy fix. Set the stats so that any player under level 75 the stats do nothing outside of pvp, but if you're level 75 the stats act as normal in pve and pvp.

Voila, pvp fixed.

Oh ya, and bring back 8v8 ranked....or give us huttball league....something. Put it on a rotation with arenas or something. Like one week is arenas and one week is 8v8.