Not wanting to sound the doomer alarm, but I just want to remind/inform everyone about another certain star wars game that decided to do a complete overhaul of the combat / classes to the live game.

Star Wars Galaxies had been running along well for 2 years before they decided to "Streamline" the combat system and introduced the *Combat Upgrade to the game, followed closely behind by the *New Game Experience. Both of which weren't ever really requested by the player base and completely blind sided a lot of subscribers. Long story short, it killed SWG. I remember it took less than 2 billing cycles for our guild to reduce from over 100 active players to less than 10 with the common theme that the dev team had killed their character. The game was a ghost town in less than 6 months.

Just saying...

Not wanting to sound the doomer alarm

"...but hey here's my hyperbolic naysaying death of the game doomsday speech."

Not wanting to sound the doomer alarm, but I just want to remind/inform everyone about another certain star wars game that decided to do a complete overhaul of the combat / classes to the live game.

 

Star Wars Galaxies had been running along well for 2 years before they decided to "Streamline" the combat system and introduced the *Combat Upgrade to the game, followed closely behind by the *New Game Experience. Both of which weren't ever really requested by the player base and completely blind sided a lot of subscribers. Long story short, it killed SWG. I remember it took less than 2 billing cycles for our guild to reduce from over 100 active players to less than 10 with the common theme that the dev team had killed their character. The game was a ghost town in less than 6 months.

 

Just saying...

Uh....

I'm an SWG Veteran from 2003 on Bria Server (Best Server!) -- And NOTHING scheduled for Patch 7.0 is anything like what happened in that game.

I think you need to have a seat, because either you haven't listened and learned exactly what they're doing. or you're still traumatized by defunct SOE (or your just trying to start @#$@).

Just take some meds, and remember that John Smedley doesn't work at Bioware EA (here's to hoping of the nightmares that will haunt him during Alzheimer's)

Hmm I don't remember saying anything about this being the end of the game

"Long story short, it killed SWG."

Yeah, you weren't making any kind of suggestion or analog between the two huh?

or that it was anything like CU/NGE.

" they decided to "Streamline" the combat system and introduced the *Combat Upgrade to the game, followed closely behind by the *New Game Experience. Both of which weren't ever really requested by the player base and completely blind sided a lot of subscribers."

I'm merely pointing out some history. Maybe take a chill pill lads.

Oh sorry did we somehow make you look ridiculous because we highlighted some ridiculous BS you said and now you're trying to pretend like you didn't?

You're making the situation with Combat Styles out to be a direct analog to SWG. Even if you're not literally saying those exact words that's what you're inferring/suggesting. You wouldn't have made the topic otherwise. Maybe take some chill pills yourself given that you're the one that made this topic.

Hmm I don't remember saying anything about this being the end of the game, or that it was anything like CU/NGE. I'm merely pointing out some history. Maybe take a chill pill lads.

I know a troll post when I read one... try for smaller fish next time.

"...but hey here's my hyperbolic naysaying death of the game doomsday speech."

"calm down calm down, nothing to see here"

CU/NGE did kill SWG, if you think otherwise you didn't play the game previous to the implementation of it.

I have played PTS for the new patch and have spent a long time playing a Guardian tank in SWTOR, so I have a fair idea on what the current changes are to the class. Which is why I have brought up SWG as example, merely pointing out if you make broad sweeping changes to the way people play their characters you can severely damage your player base. At no point have I said this current direction is going the same way SOE did with SWG.

Again pointing out some history, not sure why you're getting so personally offended by it.

Again pointing out some history, not sure why you're getting so personally offended by it.

I'm curious about that, too. What's up with the unexpected whiteknighting in this thread?

I don't think it's a big stretch to fear that the currently planned changes might cause this game to lose more current players than attract new players. It can have a negative impact for players who play now, but there is no interesting selling point for new players. To me, it looks more like a lose-lose-situation than a win-win-situation.

7.0 only brings very little NEW content to play. For a 10 year anniversary it sounds very underwhelming. Smaller in scope than 6.0. I wished they would use their resources on that instead.

I don't know of any example where a game developer dumbing things down resulted in good things happening to that game. I wouldn't be surprised if an example exists but I can't think of one. But I know of several where such efforts failed, some more spectacularly than others.

Even though it's a rather extreme example and not really comparable to SWTOR, but EVE Online immediately comes to mind. When it first came out it was a completely unintuitive behemoth of complexity with mechanics interacting with other mechanics interacting with even more mechanics and you had to figure it out all by yourself. It's most certainly still one of the most complex games on the market, but it has been dumbed down considerably if you compare it to the 2003 version.

CU/NGE did kill SWG, if you think otherwise you didn't play the game previous to the implementation of it.

Ok but SWTOR isn't SWG nor are the changes the exact same thing like you're making them out to be.

I have played PTS for the new patch and have spent a long time playing a Guardian tank in SWTOR, so I have a fair idea on what the current changes are to the class.

Okay then make a topic about how those things are a problem, oh wait there's already multiple topics about exactly that and if you did that your thread wouldn't stand out so you thought you needed something that was basically more clickbaity or attention grabbing to set you apart.

Which is why I have brought up SWG as example, merely pointing out if you make broad sweeping changes to the way people play their characters you can severely damage your player base.

....................

Hmm I don't remember saying anything about this being the end of the game, or that it was anything like CU/NGE.

"I'm not saying this is like SWG but I am saying it's like SWG but I'm not saying it's like SWG."

At no point have I said this current direction is going the same way SOE did with SWG.

That is literally what you're suggesting or else you wouldn't have brought it up. You specifically didn't say those words but you wouldn't have brought it up if you weren't doom saying which is exactly what you're doing. That's how you started this all off.

Again pointing out some history, not sure why you're getting so personally offended by it.

You weren't pointing out some history at random you were pointing it out as a direct analog to Combat Styles. Stop lying and pretending that you weren't.

I'm curious about that, too. What's up with the unexpected whiteknighting in this thread?

Except nobody is whiteknighting or defending SWTOR or Combat Styles in this thread merely pointing out that the TC made a ridiculous topic hoping to be validated saying he didn't want to doom say but then went into a whole doom saying monologue.

It just came across as so unnecessary and transparent and then when that absurdity got highlighted he wanted to pretend like that wasn't exactly what he was doing even though it was.

I don't think it's a big stretch to fear that the currently planned changes might cause this game to lose more current players than attract new players. It can have a negative impact for players who play now, but there is no interesting selling point for new players. To me, it looks more like a lose-lose-situation than a win-win-situation.

Okay and this guy is clearly the first one to say this right? He's obviously the first one to make this parallel between SWG and SWTOR? He didn't post this as a separate topic instead of in one of the dozen of other threads about this topic because he was seeking attention and validation right?

7.0 only brings very little NEW content to play. For a 10 year anniversary it sounds very underwhelming. Smaller in scope than 6.0. I wished they would use their resources on that instead.

Who was arguing against any of those things in this thread?

Also how many MMOs can you think of that did something super significant in terms of new content to play for their 10th Anniversary? Gamers put this bizzare expectation on anniversaries as if that's when a new game is supposed to come out or an existing game is supposed to get a significant content update even though existing history has dictated that to not be the case.

"Oh hey it's Mega Man's 30th Anniveary they must be releasing an all new full on Mega Man game to coenside with the anniversary!" but no that doesn't make any sense because that means a developer like Capcom would have had to put a new MM game into production at least two years prior to the anniversary in order for it to come out on time not to mention make sure it already fit in an already existing busy schedule of titles like Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, and whatever else the company had in the works.

That's why nothing special really ever happens for game anniversaries because a company won't just upend their development pipeline just to hit some kind of anniversary date or whatever.

Not wanting to sound the doomer alarm, but I just want to remind/inform everyone about another certain star wars game that decided to do a complete overhaul of the combat / classes to the live game.

 

Star Wars Galaxies had been running along well for 2 years before they decided to "Streamline" the combat system and introduced the *Combat Upgrade to the game, followed closely behind by the *New Game Experience. Both of which weren't ever really requested by the player base and completely blind sided a lot of subscribers. Long story short, it killed SWG. I remember it took less than 2 billing cycles for our guild to reduce from over 100 active players to less than 10 with the common theme that the dev team had killed their character. The game was a ghost town in less than 6 months.

 

Just saying...

Yes, after about 1 year, SWG converted their combat system and went on the last another 9 years..... sounds like doom to me?

I'm curious about that, too. What's up with the unexpected whiteknighting in this thread?

 

I don't think it's a big stretch to fear that the currently planned changes might cause this game to lose more current players than attract new players. It can have a negative impact for players who play now, but there is no interesting selling point for new players. To me, it looks more like a lose-lose-situation than a win-win-situation.

 

7.0 only brings very little NEW content to play. For a 10 year anniversary it sounds very underwhelming. Smaller in scope than 6.0. I wished they would use their resources on that instead.

Because it is clear to most, that this will have the opposite effect - IT WILL RETAIN NEW PLAYERS.

If anyone thinks in the age of Apex Legends, Fortnight, and Valorant (and the like), that we can expect the same patient grinding of 16 different Combat Styles (I can't recall the total number atm) in just a single faction and INDIVIDUALLY, then you are clearly live in a State of both Denial and where Pot is Legal... because you're smoking too much and way way too High.

Consolidating the Disciplines and creating a Loadout System is healthy for the game.

The OP isn't wrong with his historical facts...

Where OP is seriously wrong, is his troll in creating a connection with what happened in SWG - which tried to reinvent itself to be a WoW competitor at the expense of it's players, fans, and a great MMORPG for its day - SWTOR is not in that situation. Real SWG Veterans know how hollow this troll is, and are rightly offended by the comparison.

OP is trolling with this post/thread, and he's being rightly slapped down for it - no white knighting required for fixing bad trolling...

If you're going to troll, at least be artistic about it. #Thrawn

Yes, after about 1 year, SWG converted their combat system and went on the last another 9 years..... sounds like doom to me?

Yeah and note the (ironic) lack of mention that the thing that ultimately resulted in SWG's shut down was SWTOR not CU/NGE.

While I believe some of the push-back the OP is getting is a bit harsh even by my standards, I understand the sentiment behind the push-back and couldn't agree more. Sky-high drama words like apocalypse lend themselves to immediate criticism, as does creating false narratives to support unsubstantiated conclusions.

The criticisms leveled at the OP are on point.

While I believe some of the push-back the OP is getting is a bit harsh even by my standards, I understand the sentiment behind the push-back and couldn't agree more. Sky-high drama words like apocalypse lend themselves to immediate criticism, as does creating false narratives to support unsubstantiated conclusions.

The criticisms leveled at the OP are on point.

Yes, after about 1 year, SWG converted their combat system and went on the last another 9 years..... sounds like doom to me?

Small point of contention.

SWG, from start to finish, was 8.5 years.

CU, and then NGE, did DRAMATICALLY reduce the number of active players / accounts.

NGE was a complete and total mess for the first 2-6 months.

I spent the majority of that time up in JTL (actual REAL space sim content)

4-5 years before the end of the game they did finally settle on what would turn out to be the best version of the game as far as content / playability.

However, too many of the original subscribers were still complaining ALL OVER THE PLACE and it didn't really get a fair shake in my opinion.

I was there for all of it.

Yeah SWG sorta got "killed" slowly, and more than once, by a myriad of issues & debacles. It's called nuance. (novel concept for humans nowadays )

Whatever this pending 7.0 SWTOR change turns out to be, good or bad, it's certainly understandable to perceive it shares some similarities or statements with some of SWG's past parallel decisions. ( it's also reminiscent of WoW type stuff, as well as ESO )

Now then, for your reading entertainment...

Because it is clear to most, that this will have the opposite effect - IT WILL RETAIN NEW PLAYERS.

For how long though? A couple days maybe? Long enough to buy up some Cartel Market re-skins , until they get bored and go play 'Candy Crush' or 'Age of Empires' ?

Consolidating the Disciplines and creating a Loadout System is healthy for the game.

No one, not even you & your opinion, knows that for certain until 2022, after 7.0 releases.

If you're going to troll, at least be artistic about it.

uh-huh, so you mean sorta like THIS? --> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=994821

. Real SWG Veterans know how hollow this troll is, and are rightly offended by the comparison.

You def. sound very offended , but just so we're clear: You don't speak for me nor the other "real" SWG community members. -- Commence necessary SWG /flex ...

-----

As to the OP: do your thing and express your OPINION all you want. Just be careful about using hyperbolic terms like "apocalypse" & such. Other than that, consider me a *white-knight, dark-knight, or lol-silly-interweb-tropes-knight* ....and proud of it.

SWG had CU / NGE

MxO had CR2

Both are still being debated. The common denominator was SOE (spit).

But SOE (spit) and Daybreak games are not here. Change isn't always good but it also isn't always bad.

There are folks that don't like it though either in game or in RL.

This might end up being the sky that's falling, but its more likely to be an acorn.

Anyway SWG was killed less by CU / NGE and more by a new property that launched, you might have heard of it?

SWTOR.

 

...

 

4-5 years before the end of the game they did finally settle on what would turn out to be the best version of the game as far as content / playability.

However, too many of the original subscribers were still complaining ALL OVER THE PLACE and it didn't really get a fair shake in my opinion.

 

I was there for all of it.

The BEST version of the game was the original.

Blaming the players that got shafted by SOE and Lucas Arts for not submitting to a bad corporate decision to try to be the next WoW and have 1 million subscribers because of PURE Greed with a capital "G" is historically disingenuous - the Blame lies SOLELY with the company that made those decisions, and is why they did a national apology tour to try and fix their MASSIVE FUBAR decision(s) and try to polish a cowpie.

So let's not go down this rabbit hole - this is been well worn 12-13 years ago when these forums when live, and the overwhelming consensus is that defunct SOE now owned by the Chinese was solely to blame, and the best server was Bria.

Okay Mods... now, time to lock this thread

Now then, for your reading entertainment...

An HK Droid never posts and tells....

ShadowLOL ... pft please... GG I guess? But if you had been on a REAL Server, then that check in might have been more impressive.

Bria Server was the Biggest, and the Best --- Bria's Infamous (LvL 1) White Wookie Invasions --- White Wookies For Life!

The BEST version of the game was the original.

Yes, with some caveats. I would say that the CU wasn't an entirely terrible thing in principle. The combat had some serious issues that needed to be figured out, and the mind-above-all approach when it came to the three point system wasn't that great either.

I agree that the pre-NGE versions were by far better than the post NGE versions, but I think the CU itself wasn't a bad idea in general. There were issues to work out. It was the crap execution of having it and then pushing the NGE past shortly later that did it. The CU could have been weathered and worked on. The NGE couldn't.

Because it is clear to most, that this will have the opposite effect - IT WILL RETAIN NEW PLAYERS.

True. And no offense, but I think it bears saying: EA isn't trying to market to ten-year veterans who spend $2,000 on the cash shop because there's a big chance that no matter what happens, you're staying regardless. Now, I know a ton of people will jump on my throat how they won't, but the sunk cost fallacy is no joke. WoW is (by all accounts) continuously getting worse too, has a decreasing amount of MAU, but an increasing amount of revenue Q/Q for a while now.

SWTOR is currently the only option for a Star Wars MMORPG. And for better or worse, there's a ton of attention coming to Star Wars now. Book of Boba Fett, The Mandalorian, Bad Batch, Kenobi, Andor, the Ahsoka show and so on. It's clearly part of the strategy that SWTOR looks fresh and modern alongside that to pull attention. They don't want to stand there and tell new players: here's a game that ten years old, has gameplay from late-TBC to early WotLK from 2008, a graphic fidelity of an early 2009 PS2 game and so on. Enjoy!

A modernization to attract and retain new players from all that hype will happen, whether we like it or not. Might as well give constructive feedback past doom-saying and "this is the NGE!!!" to make it work.

Bioware's original, and slightly controversial, decision to go with "Stylized Realism" was the right one!

And YES this will be healthy for the game - if not then the implication is that the Developer's are choosing something that would be unhealthy?!

Any objective analysis of the 7.0 Patch announcement is a net positive, and while some might be suffering from video game adjustment disorder and SWGPTSD, ultimately if someone is playing games about 'you can't possibly know that' or 'you're not a Developer', etc is doing so because they have no arguement with the substance of LotS Expansion/Patch...

... I think they're just jealous of my droid