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Jedi Sentinel Feedback

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MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
08.30.2021 , 03:27 AM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Sticky is actually gone for Vanguards (though Commandos still have it). Was removed when they purged a lot of 30m range abilities on Vanguards, they added in Flak Shell to replace but it's not quite the same imo. I liked the sense of imminent doom of Sticky being placed and waiting to explode.

Flamethrower is the same, completely gone from Mercs and removed in favor of an instant ability on PTs, as part of the effort to remove all channels from melee classes.
So basically Project and Smash are the only two still left for both advanced classes and one spec doesn't even keep project.
Dread Slayer Kelaeon
Concealment/Lethality Operative
Ebon Hawk

NOFORKNKNIFE's Avatar


NOFORKNKNIFE
08.30.2021 , 04:01 AM | #202
(Sadly i don't remember the sentinel ability names)

Removal of Crippling Slice and Shatter shot from Marauder / Sniper seems like killing a skill barrier to me, I see that it's added to certain abilities. I just think Trauma should be one of those things that people have to think about not that's put on through an ability that's part of rotation.

IMO, Trauma should not be added to any rotational abilities and should sit on a weak ability like in 6.0 and prior so we can have that skill level for crippling slice on certain heal dcds and in heal games in PvP.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
08.30.2021 , 09:52 AM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Let me ask. Do you play pvp?
I still play regs fairly regularly and solo ranked on occasion, though I used to pvp more often. Still it hardly seems relevant when my comment was specifically talking about class flavour. As you'll see I pointed out that (at least in my opinion) Force Choke is more of an iconic Juggernaut ability than an iconic Marauder ability. So from the standpoint of flavour, it's not an entirely strange decision to have it be a juggernaut exclusive.

Obviously no longer having any stuns will massively negatively affect Marauders in PvP, but depending on how other classes are changed there could be a potential version of swtor where Marauders are balanced without access to a hardstun.

KaellSolaris's Avatar


KaellSolaris
08.31.2021 , 02:15 AM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Obviously no longer having any stuns will massively negatively affect Marauders in PvP, but depending on how other classes are changed there could be a potential version of swtor where Marauders are balanced without access to a hardstun.
Do you really expect any other classes who still have acces to a stun to not use it or to range classes to nicely let us stay in their mele range...

Llacertus's Avatar


Llacertus
08.31.2021 , 03:04 PM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
100% agree. They definitely need to have force choke / force stasis
I don't think sentinels not having force choke will be that big of an issue to be honest. They make up for their lack of cc with an obscene amount of damage. If combat or concentration were placed in the current meta, they would easily be the highest parsing dps specs in the game. Annihilation definitely still needs a damage boost, but the other two specs are doing insane dps wise right now. Combat sentinels can have a 93% crit chance + insane movement speed when 5 stacks of the buff are active. Not to mention, they can lock a target down with repeated use of lance during zen. In a pvp setting, the hindering effect of repeated usage of the lance ability during zen gives sentinels cc stronger than electronet while also allowing for strong dps output. Concentration can currently get 80k aoe burst crits at the start of zen. Hopefully, no other class will have burst potential this strong since sentinels are melee and are therefore at the most combat risk.

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
08.31.2021 , 08:34 PM | #206
Sentinel feedback

How to make meaningful choices. What are they? I have played this class since the beginning of 2.0, and it's definitely my favorite, but I do play everything else too. I want to mention some things on how to make a good selection for this class as some of these ARE good, but could be way better. Or flat out just not as obvious of a selection while also helping the class and build options as a whole.

Also, the formatting of the details on what you get and what you choose is a bit unclear. If the third option without a (C) or whatever next to it is actually an option over the other two.. Then please rethink that completely. Don't make us choose the passive over abilities, that's terrible. (Turns out this is true.)
In watchman I cover all things, some things are the same going to the other specs so for full feedback watchman should be read first.

WATCHMAN

Spoiler



COMBAT

Spoiler





CONCENTRATION
Spoiler




Defensive chance rework for PvP

Spoiler

As a reference note to something I have mentioned in this is defense chance rework.
(While itís not completely sentinel-related and more game balance wise it will make everything make more sense..)

Funtwoo's Avatar


Funtwoo
09.01.2021 , 07:48 AM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
With our next phase of PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Sentinel.

Please answer the following questions:
  • What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?
  • Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?
  • If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!

Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?

I like the idea of choosing a path in a skill tree, but i think how sentinel is now presented on the PTS is wrong in alot of aspects. I like the fact that you can choose between different kind of passives. what influences in a diffrent kind of playstyle. But removing or let us choose between key abilities what makes the class is the worst thing you can do. As pvp player our best defensive abilities are removed. Pacify with the ruthless agressor utility is by far the best defensive of marauder in pvp. and at the end you need to choose between blade blitz, force camo and guarded by the force. This mean most players in ranked would choose force camouflage. This means that you end up with only two defensives no hardstun and no mezz.
YAYYY!!! we still have saberward litterly the most outdated defensive for pvp at all. 25% DR against yellow damage does nothing in 6.0+ you also have the 50% defense to whitedamage thats nice. The only problem is that almsot all kills in pvp are yellow damage. This will make the class in pvp useless!!!! PLEASE!! don't remove pacify, don't remove rebuke and dont let players choose between guarded by the force and force camouflage.

I get that the SWTOR team want to remove abilities, but why would you ever remove key abilities that are so important.

There is a option to remove some defensives, but pacify + ruthless agressor in pvp is key. this is the only short cooldown defensive marauders have. I hope that nothing what comes close to what is live now for marauder on the PTS ever makes it live.
Removing bloodthirst, Furious power and crippeling slash would be fine for me. i still use those abilities alot now, but this will make the change less impactfull for any balance in pvp

if this setup on the PTS will make it live i deffinetly will quit my sub what i already have for 5 years straight now

KaellSolaris's Avatar


KaellSolaris
09.01.2021 , 12:43 PM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
I don't think sentinels not having force choke will be that big of an issue to be honest. They make up for their lack of cc with an obscene amount of damage. If combat or concentration were placed in the current meta, they would easily be the highest parsing dps specs in the game
The " obscene amount of damage " is just the current pts state, everyone like big number, but from a gameplay perspective you can't have one class who make too much damage in coparaison to other, because what will be the point to play an underperforming class while you can have it easy with a sentinel ? so the number will be tune in the same range as everyone, minus the missing abilities who will make a sentinel unplayable in pvp content.

Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
Combat sentinels can have a 93% crit chance + insane movement speed when 5 stacks of the buff are active.
100 % crit is fun i agree, but that means it will be taken into account when the dps ballance will be done, making the class underperforming in short fight and fight when he can loose his crit stacks.

Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
Not to mention, they can lock a target down with repeated use of lance during zen. In a pvp setting, the hindering effect of repeated usage of the lance ability during zen gives sentinels cc stronger than electronet while also allowing for strong dps output.
With the cost of Lance and zen requiered, you need a full focus bar to pin down a target, which make the setup predictable and that can be easily countered ( bump and stun have entered the holochannel ).

Electronet is still better by far on many point :
  • If CC the commando/mercenary electronet is still on your face while hindering last only 1.5sec.
  • If you make any other action than Lance the hinded target can move away, electronet don't have this weekness once cast
  • Electronet last 10 sec with no setup, you can only keep hinded target on the target for 5-6 sec WITH setup before you need to fill in the focus bar
  • if the sentinel is out of range no more lance.
  • Etc.

PvP player are not target dummies (for the most part), don't expect them to stand still.

Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
Concentration can currently get 80k aoe burst crits at the start of zen. Hopefully, no other class will have burst potential this strong since sentinels are melee and are therefore at the most combat risk.
That was already the case some year agot, and Concentration was changed since, i don't expect them to make the same mistake twice.

Every class still have some form of cc available, sentinel can't be the only one who don't have any, just from a balance perspective.

igonnakillya's Avatar


igonnakillya
09.03.2021 , 01:24 AM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by Beyrahl View Post
Sentinel feedback

How to make meaningful choices. What are they? I have played this class since the beginning of 2.0, and it's definitely my favorite, but I do play everything else too. I want to mention some things on how to make a good selection for this class as some of these ARE good, but could be way better. Or flat out just not as obvious of a selection while also helping the class and build options as a whole.

Also, the formatting of the details on what you get and what you choose is a bit unclear. If the third option without a (C) or whatever next to it is actually an option over the other two.. Then please rethink that completely. Don't make us choose the passive over abilities, that's terrible. (Turns out this is true.)
In watchman I cover all things, some things are the same going to the other specs so for full feedback watchman should be read first.

WATCHMAN

Spoiler



Ok, I disagree with mostly everything you say about the Watchman Combat Style. Itís clear to me that you mainly run Combat or Concentration. If you place most of your explanation that is under the Watchman spec instead under your Combat or Concentration explanation then you would be correct. I actually agree with those explanations.

I apologize in advance but I am going to go bit by bit and analyzing each thing you talk about when it comes to the Watchman combat style.

I agree with your first statement that the damage could be ramped a little better. But the point of this spec isnít to do a ton of damage all at once through burst like in the other classes. The point of this combat style is to stay in the fight longer so you outlast your opponent. Heal as youíre hitting so you can survive the burst. Like a duel. Like Count Dooku. It literally is the OPPOSITE of burst. So it should feel that way. Not so you hit and run. You donít need to move around as much with Watchman as you would with Combat or Concentration.

LVL 10
At lvl 10, you state that this is a DoT AoE spec. Itís not. This spec is actually a single target Damage over time spec that has SOME capabilities to go AoE. It should continue to focus single target with option to AoE. I state this pretty thoroughly in my feedback. Link below.

https://www.swtor.com/community/show...80#post9967080


Building Centering is lvl 35, seems fine to me. Not sure what you are referring to with the 10 Centering at level 10 with Melting Center. But I actually agree with the decision made at lvl 10 and disagree with you. This choice depicts how you go through your rotation on the Watchman. I agree with the devs here.

LVL 20
In your lvl 20 section, I disagree with several things. Letís start with the statement that Transcendence is a Sentinel/Marauderís identity. While I would agree with you if we were talking about the Combat or Concentration spec, I vigorously disagree with that statement in reference to the Watchman spec. As I state in my post Transcendence is integral to Combat/Concentration, but completely useless when it comes to the Watchman Tree. Zen and Inspiration, especially Inspiration, are essential in buffing the DoTs of the Watchman and spreading the burn/heals across to the whole team. This helps keep the whole team from wiping and keeps them alive longer. It also helps take a little weight off the healers. Iíve literally never used Transcendence. Not when I have other escape abilities like Blade Blitz or Force Camouflage. Transcendence is just not essential to the Watchman.

LVL 30
In your level 30, paragraph I understand what the Devs were trying to do here and I agree with the choices. Specifically with your feedback on Cauterizing focus, we differ heavily. Cauterize is an ESSENTIAL ability to the Watchman. Of course you apply Cauterize during Zen! Do you know what Zen does for DoTs? It literally makes the DoTs from Cauterize WAY better. Any DoT applying active ability NEEDS to be spammed during Zen. That is literally all you do. The reasons are twofold. One, Zen makes DoT damage better when applied by a DoT ability, and two, it increases self-healing capabilities to keep you in the fight longer. Great in PvE, phenomenal in PvP. Also, I LOVE that Cauterizing Focus refunds Focus. This was around during RofHC and SoR and I loved it. Works great for the class.

Blade Storm/Force Scream is a useless ability for this style and should be deleted.

LVL 35
Burning Center is good, I agree.
Burning Zen does NOT need to be replaced. That is a GREAT passive. It is an awesome DoT proc and allows you to use your ENTIRE Rotation to apply the most DoTs. If you are reading this Devs please keep Burning Zen in. It works amazingly. I used it on the PTS.

ALL THREE SPECS SHOULD NOT BE IN LINE WITH EACH OTHER. Iíll say it again.
ALL THREE SPECS SHOULD NOT BE IN LINE WITH EACH OTHER. One more time.
ALL THREE SPECS SHOULD NOT BE IN LINE WITH EACH OTHER.

The point of each spec is to be as diverse as possible so your character feels UNIQUE to you. Yes we may have two lightsabers in common but just like Asajj Ventress and Ahsoka Tano we wield them VERY differently.

LVL 60
I used Jedi Crusader talent because it allowed the rotation to flow more smoothly on Watchman. So I argue that counterpoint. I actually agree with your suggestion on Trailblazer.
I dissent to your paragraph on Zealous Ward. This is really beneficial to the Watchman but also allows the player to make a hard choice at level 60. Again, this is a playstyle choice that makes your character unique. Therefore, I disagree.

I like the idea around your Saber Ward rework but I dissent as a whole.

LVL 70
Again, I mentioned in my initial post that the 3 options posted at this level currently should be or could be combined in some way. If not, I make other recommendations for how to utilize these abilities best.
Force Camo should not go up against pacify. Making 3 choices was the initial option at launch in SWTOR. Not mad about them going closer to the skill tree situation.

FIRST and FOREMOST, I sincerely apologize for this next comment, but what?!!

Quote: Originally Posted by Beyrahl View Post
(If guarded by the force wonít be baseline. I donít think inspiration should be.)
Letís use the transitive property here. If Transcendence = Combat/Concentration then Inspiration = Watchman. Inspiration is ESSENTIAL nay REQUIRED in group content for the Watchman. I stated this above that it should remain BASELINE because the amount it helps your OPs group during PvE and PvP content. Obviously we know, Combat and Concentration Jediís canít really use Inspiration but Watchman certainly can and should. It buffs Watchman all around and is a part of every single group encounter ever.

I donít believe Force Camo should be removed but retooled in a better way.

I like that each specialization/Combat Style is different. The point is to make your character unique in the Star Wars universe, not have a bunch of copy/paste drones running around the galaxy. How boring would the game be then?

igonnakillya's Avatar


igonnakillya
09.03.2021 , 01:31 AM | #210
I see a lot of posts stating that Inspiration/Bloodthirst should be removed as a baseline instead of Transcendence/Predation.

While I personally don't believe that ANY ability that uses Centering/Fury should be restricted to the players, I also don't believe that any of them should exchanged for each other.

While Zen/Berserk and Inspiration/Bloodthirst are ESSENTIAL to Watchman/Annihilation, Zen/Beserk and Transcendence/Predation are ESSENTIAL to Combat/Carnage and Concentration/Rage.

Please do NOT restrict these abilities or make them options to the player base. Thank you. Please see link below for more of my feedback.

https://www.swtor.com/community/show...80#post9967080