even when I have to wait until they want to nerf this hideous class ... they are not enough with the immortal sors, juggs, mercs ?? !! ... but the operatives and scoundrels are a real nightmare ... . IT'S NOT POSSIBLE THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANY DAMAGE !!!!!! I'M TRYING TO CONTAIN THE BAD WORDS.

Roll = evade all damage, reflect damage, invisible at ease, heal while moving, heal static, hit again and leave you poisoned, heal and hit, heal and hit ..... THEY ARE STUPIDLY IMMUNE TO EVERYTHING. ... THIS REALLY IS HORRIBLY ANNOYING UP TO THE GRADIUM OF HATE .... also they make you feel at ease, that is, if there is a natural cheater class ENDORSED BY YOU, IT IS THIS .... THE WORST AND MOST HATE OF THE GAME. ...

You can't possibly need 3 players to have to kill this hideous class ...

EVEN WHEN !!!!!

EVEN WHEN!!!!

UNTIL WHEN AND YOU DO NOTHING !!!!!!

Learn to play against them. You don't get what you want when you can't manage to deal with some difficulties. At least try to put some efforts to counter them. All I see here is someone angry without constructive comment.

-Don't let an oprative know you are gonna hit with your big burst. He's gonna reflect.

-Don't focus an operative as first target or second except if you really know what to do.

-Always stun ops

-put a dot on him before you know he's gonna die because he could stealth out

Learn to play against them. You don't get what you want when you can't manage to deal with some difficulties. At least try to put some efforts to counter them. All I see here is someone angry without constructive comment.

 

-Don't let an oprative know you are gonna hit with your big burst. He's gonna reflect.

-Don't focus an operative as first target or second except if you really know what to do.

-Always stun ops

-put a dot on him before you know he's gonna die because he could stealth out

I don't think He's talking about arenas. They are insanely OP in Hutt Ball and WZ. There is no point to argue about it, everybody knows it.. It's not a LTP issue, their abilities make them OP, but because you are so good, why don't you post a video for Us, so we mortals can learn to play against them. You know, talk is cheap.

I don't think He's talking about arenas. They are insanely OP in Hutt Ball and WZ. There is no point to argue about it, everybody knows it.. It's not a LTP issue, their abilities make them OP, but because you are so good, why don't you post a video for Us, so we mortals can learn to play against them. You know, talk is cheap.

talk is indeed cheap. so why don't you post a video of you being farmed by operatives so we can deduce whether there is actually a problem or not. that aside, ops are like pretty much any other class; they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Damage-spec'ed Operatives and Scoundrels should not be able to continuously dump green healing slime over themselves non-stop.

This class already has stealth and defense moves.

This is going to sound crazy, but the honest truth is that Operatives/Scoundrels are not OP. In fact, when people say “Nerf Operative/Scoundrel!”, what they really mean is “Nerf Concealment/Scrapper!”. Those specs are unbalanced in specific ways that can be adjusted with two or three tweaks, and require a particular play style to overcome. But I’ve killed plenty of Operatives and Scoundrels with little trouble.

Saying that they’re OP implies that the whole class is broken and needs to be reworked from the ground up, which isn’t the case. Again, it’s one spec that provides the bulk of the trouble. Give them the same roll as Sniper/Gunslinger, make Kolto Infusion a heal spec-only ability or reduce the amount of healing dps specs get from it, and lose the auto crit on Backstab when running the Volatile Strike tactical, and that will bring Operative/Scoundrel more in line with other classes.

Yes, desync sucks. Huttball matches with Operatives/Scoundrels quickly turn into a joke, and I’m saying that as someone who plays Operative regularly. But, the flip side is that playing an Operative/Scoundrel effectively takes a lot of skill and awareness. You can’t just faceroll the keyboard and win. So if someone is good enough to wreck your day consistently with an Operative/Scoundrel, they could probably do it with any other class.

talk is indeed cheap. so why don't you post a video of you being farmed by operatives so we can deduce whether there is actually a problem or not. that aside, ops are like pretty much any other class; they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Nobody is talking about farming. In WZs we have objectives and in HB we need to carry the ball to the enemy goal line, and that's where they are extremely OP. How ever I am still wafting for the "How to easily handle Scoundrel/Operative" video. That can't hurt. Right?

Nobody is talking about farming. In WZs we have objectives and in HB we need to carry the ball to the enemy goal line, and that's where they are extremely OP. How ever I am still wafting for the "How to easily handle Scoundrel/Operative" video. That can't hurt. Right?

ok, well, "handle scoundrel/operative" in what capacity? you're not talking about farming/killing, so do you mean you want a "how to prevent scoundrels/operatives from running the ball" video? seriously?

Same class shouldnt have high survival+high dps, should be kind of an equation

Survival+DPS = 100

one goes up other goes down. Stealth + self heals + high dps is OP. one of them needs to be removed from the set

This is going to sound crazy, but the honest truth is that Operatives/Scoundrels are not OP. In fact, when people say “Nerf Operative/Scoundrel!”, what they really mean is “Nerf Concealment/Scrapper!”. Those specs are unbalanced in specific ways that can be adjusted with two or three tweaks, and require a particular play style to overcome. But I’ve killed plenty of Operatives and Scoundrels with little trouble.

You're right about most of this. It would take more than "tweaks" to properly balance operatives, I believe. There have been operatives/scoundrels I have defeated rather handily myself...but that's more an indictment of their bad play than it is a kudo to my play.

Saying that they’re OP implies that the whole class is broken and needs to be reworked from the ground up, which isn’t the case. Again, it’s one spec that provides the bulk of the trouble. Give them the same roll as Sniper/Gunslinger, make Kolto Infusion a heal spec-only ability or reduce the amount of healing dps specs get from it, and lose the auto crit on Backstab when running the Volatile Strike tactical, and that will bring Operative/Scoundrel more in line with other classes.

Taken on the whole, i'd even be happy with these measures. Currently, the absentee moderators who are "monitoring" various situations seem wholly unconcerned with the state of PvP right now.

Yes, desync sucks. Huttball matches with Operatives/Scoundrels quickly turn into a joke, and I’m saying that as someone who plays Operative regularly. But, the flip side is that playing an Operative/Scoundrel effectively takes a lot of skill and awareness. You can’t just faceroll the keyboard and win. So if someone is good enough to wreck your day consistently with an Operative/Scoundrel, they could probably do it with any other class.

Maybe...

I know almost nothing about the class, and I rarely die in warzones as an operative. My dps is subpar (anywhere from 4-6k), but solo kills are not all that difficult to get, and when I cannot defeat someone (which is admittedly often enough) I can nearly always escape. I have next to zero skill with the class and yet I find it very easy to stay alive. That is a problem.

This is going to sound crazy, but the honest truth is that Operatives/Scoundrels are not OP. In fact, when people say “Nerf Operative/Scoundrel!”, what they really mean is “Nerf Concealment/Scrapper!”. Those specs are unbalanced in specific ways that can be adjusted with two or three tweaks, and require a particular play style to overcome. But I’ve killed plenty of Operatives and Scoundrels with little trouble.

 

Saying that they’re OP implies that the whole class is broken and needs to be reworked from the ground up, which isn’t the case. Again, it’s one spec that provides the bulk of the trouble. Give them the same roll as Sniper/Gunslinger, make Kolto Infusion a heal spec-only ability or reduce the amount of healing dps specs get from it, and lose the auto crit on Backstab when running the Volatile Strike tactical, and that will bring Operative/Scoundrel more in line with other classes.

 

Yes, desync sucks. Huttball matches with Operatives/Scoundrels quickly turn into a joke, and I’m saying that as someone who plays Operative regularly. But, the flip side is that playing an Operative/Scoundrel effectively takes a lot of skill and awareness. You can’t just faceroll the keyboard and win. So if someone is good enough to wreck your day consistently with an Operative/Scoundrel, they could probably do it with any other class.

I do agree with most of this. And I think it’s important that we talk about Specs and not the whole class because that can lead to a total class nerf which isn’t needed. Some small changes to those specs would bring them more in line with the other classes.

As you say, Operatives also require a higher skill set to use properly. But that doesn’t excuse what happens in HB. The whole class is broken in HB because of the Desync it causes. Honestly, I don’t think BioWare can ever fix Desync. It’s worse than it’s ever been and operative roll only makes it worse. There is no simple answer here that I can see beyond removing roll and replacing it with a different ability.

Saying that they’re OP implies that the whole class is broken and needs to be reworked from the ground up, which isn’t the case. Again, it’s one spec that provides the bulk of the trouble. Give them the same roll as Sniper/Gunslinger, make Kolto Infusion a heal spec-only ability or reduce the amount of healing dps specs get from it, and lose the auto crit on Backstab when running the Volatile Strike tactical, and that will bring Operative/Scoundrel more in line with other classes.

No. It absolutely not implies that the whole class is broken. It implies that certain abilities need to be adjusted to reality.

SWTOR PvP is a collossal stun fest. (Stun Wars) So no class should be exempt from the retarded amount of stun. Let's all enjoy constantly been stunned. it's only fair.

No. It absolutely not implies that the whole class is broken. It implies that certain abilities need to be adjusted to reality.

SWTOR PvP is a collossal stun fest. (Stun Wars) So no class should be exempt from the retarded amount of stun. Let's all enjoy constantly been stunned. it's only fair.

Don't stun them during their roll

Please consider playing the class / spec before forming your opinion about them. TBH, it sounds more like you guys are upset with the Debilitator set bonus, which is about control and "slipperiness."

• (2) +2% Mastery
  
• (4) Scamper’s / Exfiltrate’s recharge time is reduced by 2 seconds.
  
• (6) Dirty Kick / Debilitate gets two ability charges.
  

1v1 and huttball (queshball less so) are a conc operative's niche. Beyond that, they are merely average.

Same class shouldnt have high survival+high dps, should be kind of an equation

Survival+DPS = 100

one goes up other goes down. Stealth + self heals + high dps is OP. one of them needs to be removed from the set

Concealment operatives do not have a high DPS ceiling. They have probably the 4th best burst behind AP, carnage, and deception.

Concealment operatives do not have a high DPS ceiling. They have probably the 4th best burst behind AP, carnage, and deception.

fury marauder, lightning sorc, marksman sniper. all have better dps than concealment ops. concealment ops dps output is one of the lowest out of any of the burst specs in the game. literally all it has going for it is roll immunity and what little burst it can do. people saying operatives should be nerfed are completely delusional; they dont know what they're talking about.

people saying operatives should be nerfed are completely delusional; they dont know what they're talking about.

To be fair, the players complaining about it also seem to be unable to out-DPS 2 stacks of Probes; that's pretty indicative of their quality.

To be fair, the players complaining about it also seem to be unable to out-DPS 2 stacks of Probes; that's pretty indicative of their quality.

they're OP in WZs (easy to escape, move, delay) and atm there's a lot of op stacking just like smash monkies and AP PTs in the aoe snare era and mercs when reflect came out while arsenal burst was quite high. they are definitely a problem in WZs. I don't think that's even a question. but individually no. their burst isn't huge, and I watch a lot of solo ranked. I don't see them being individually game breaking. if you roll away in an arena your lack of dps does hurt your team. if you roll away in WZs you continue to delay nodes and harass pretty much indefinitely (or force multiple players to waste time chasing you).

To be fair, the players complaining about it also seem to be unable to out-DPS 2 stacks of Probes; that's pretty indicative of their quality.

touche. also to be fair, their only legitimate argument is that operatives are too good at moving the ball in huttball. therefore, concealment needs to be nerfed despite the fact that they are actually lacking in every other manner other than 1v1s >_>

after reading all this jive.. the old man decided to try out the operative.. luckily i had a max level operative.. so i chose the dot spec.. brought 306 gold gear and fully amped it out.. since i had alot of it in storage like the mods.. since the old man have a few billions laying around.. ( when you get over 4 billion credits.. you get message you reaching the limit)..

so i brought them overpriced shiny gold 306 augments.. so i spec into lethality.. i read the abilities of the class and what the skills do.. ask guildie who is top rank operative what abilities to take.. all this out of the way.. que for warzone.. got a hypergate..

3 people went to cap..i sap all 3 until i had to attack to stop cap.. i killed 2 /3.. basically spamming dot aoe's..rolling and free healing.. then the zerg finally came.. what i do, throw a flash bomb and stealth away giving them the /laugh emote.. i was basically spamming my dots doing my damage..

here is the crux of scenario.. i was 1 vs 4 and they couldn't kill me.. since i play every class rep and pub side.. i basically know the animations for the big hitters and i pop my reflect .. then i run around spamming dots and stunning.. if i see them closing in , i do a roll and use the instant heal..

when the zerg comes i just stealth away and laugh.. basically i'm saying , on a operative i will not DIE in any reg wz's.. if you dying as a operative, you doing something wrong.. yes the class is slippery, easy damage and hard to kill.. they might need some reworking and the holotraverse is king.. even if i have no stealth...if i got a player near me..i can tele to him and get away..haha

touche. also to be fair, their only legitimate argument is that operatives are too good at moving the ball in huttball. therefore, concealment needs to be nerfed despite the fact that they are actually lacking in every other manner other than 1v1s >_>

I’m sorry, are you playing a completely different game from the rest of us? Do you not notice the way Operatives and Scoundrels glitch halfway across the maps and through floors when running the huttball? Because we all do. It has almost zero to do with skill and more to do with the fact that desync issues make them nigh untouchable while rolling. And by the way, it’s not just Operative/Scoundrels. Any rapid movement (Covered Escape, Holotraverse, Mad Dash, etc.) has a high chance of glitching a toon to hell. It’s just that Operatives/Scoundrels can do it a lot more often.

I played my MR infil shadow in a wz yesterday. I killed a couple of operatives multiple times. I only died once the entire match. #nerfsins

#Nerfgoodplayers

I’m sorry, are you playing a completely different game from the rest of us? Do you not notice the way Operatives and Scoundrels glitch halfway across the maps and through floors when running the huttball? Because we all do. It has almost zero to do with skill and more to do with the fact that desync issues make them nigh untouchable while rolling. And by the way, it’s not just Operative/Scoundrels. Any rapid movement (Covered Escape, Holotraverse, Mad Dash, etc.) has a high chance of glitching a toon to hell. It’s just that Operatives/Scoundrels can do it a lot more often.

I really don't see it as much with Operatives, because they save roll for fire traps. It's Sorcs who get 5 free seconds of immunity because they pop force speed and the game can't decide whether they're on the scaffold or in the pit. I'm much happier chasing an Operative than a Sorc every single time.

The only times Operatives are really an issue to chase is when some mong white bars them at full health. But the people doing that are the same people that stand in sap range of a node and complain that they get sap capped.