Jump to content

Bracket Changes, and What's Next


ChrisSchmidt

Recommended Posts

  • Dev Post

 

Hi everyone,

 

Now that players have had a chance to experience Game Update 6.3, we wanted to follow up on a change we had made with PvP brackets. Currently, there are now two brackets instead of three.

 

Previous brackets:

  • Levels 10-42
  • Levels 43-74
  • Level 75

 

Current brackets:

  • Levels 10-74
  • Level 75

 

The intention behind the change was to increase the number of PvP players available for the whole queue. We are in the process of analyzing the data for this change and also gathering feedback from players who participate in PvP.

 

We understand the impact that this had on our PvP community, and will be mindful of communicating changes such as consolidating the number of total queues and their intentions ahead of time before they are implemented.

 

While we are on the topic of PvP, we are aware of the questions regarding the future of PvP and what that looks like.

 

We briefly touched on some of the longer-term plans in a post last fall <link>. Our overall goal for PvP is to support modes that accommodate safe, healthy competition. We believe that if we can do this, we can encourage more players to try out PvP and foster a growing, positive community. The more players we have playing PvP modes, the better quality the experience becomes overall. As a result, queue times are reduced and matchmaking algorithms have more players in the pool to work with. To get there, we have been working on what the future of PvP could look like.

 

We have made great progress here, and laid out a couple of initiatives in-line with the transition. First, we’re keeping the existing Seasonal structure and rewards plan through Season 14 to allow us the time to finish our exploration and implement the next version of PvP. Next, we’ve been gathering feedback from the community on what sort of changes you would like to see. We are exploring things like map voting/selection, accounting for classes in matchmaking, tighter brackets in matchmaking, and the reward structures in all of the current ranked and unranked modes.

 

Thank you all for your continued feedback!

 

-Chris

 

:csw_jabbapet:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 119
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Our overall goal for PvP is to support modes that accommodate safe, healthy competition. We believe that if we can do this, we can encourage more players to try out PvP and foster a growing, positive community. The more players we have playing PvP modes, the better quality the experience becomes overall.

 

After the recent patch where two "problematic" arenas were removed, people started to randomly die to terrain bugs on remaining arenas. Even worse, some players have learned where the dangerous spots are located, and are trying to "bait" enemies there to secure a free win. Are developers aware of this? Is there any chance we will get bug fixes without a complete removal of the map? Because I'm afraid that very soon ranked pvpers will run out of properly working maps to play on. This is my biggest personal concern about "quality of the experience".

Edited by DerSchneider
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the recent patch where two "problematic" arenas were removed, people started to randomly die to terrain bugs on remaining arenas. Even worse, some players have learned where the dangerous spots are located, and are trying to "bait" enemies there to secure a free win. Are developers aware of this? Is there any chance we will get bug fixes without a complete removal of the map? Because I'm afraid that very soon ranked pvpers will run out of properly working maps to play on. This is my biggest personal concern about "quality of the experience".

 

basically what nightrain has said , the current remaining maps are more buggy then they've ever been before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The intention behind the change was to increase the number of PvP players available for the whole queue. We are in the process of analyzing the data for this change and also gathering feedback from players who participate in PvP.

 

When your data shows you that the massive drop of PvP participants correlates with your change to only reward WINS in warzones, then I really think you should buy a round of beer for the whole forum community.

 

The way I see it:

 

A. You changed PvP rewards to WIN only.

B. Since that change you lost so many PvP players that you needed to kill a whole PvP bracket and create a huge level imbalance, just so that you can fill up the queues again.

Conclusio: Your change to WIN-only caused the OPPOSITE of what you intended. Not more players started playing PvP. More quit.

 

Who saw that coming?

 

To quote Sheldon Cooper: "Oh, I so informed you thusly".

Edited by JattaGin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"We have made great progress here, and laid out a couple of initiatives in-line with the transition"

 

Sorry but what progress have you done at all in PVP? Maps are more broken than ever, you ignored all the reports through the season for wintrade, toxicity and ban evading, and now the lowbie bracket is an absolute joke that will make people that are first trying PVP to absolutely give up after the first attemp that they will be nuked by a geared level 74 guy, with all his abilities.

I havent read a single positive feedback on the actual state of PVP, here on forums or the theorycrafter discord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We understand the impact that this had on our PvP community

No, I don't think you do. You guys literally understand nothing about PVP in your own game. Your decisions regarding PVP updates thus far has shown that you are so far detached from the reality of what players want.

 

 

Our overall goal for PvP is to support modes that accommodate safe, healthy competition.
It's a video game, how unsafe can it be?

 

We believe that if we can do this, we can encourage more players to try out PvP and foster a growing, positive community. The more players we have playing PvP modes, the better quality the experience becomes overall. As a result, queue times are reduced and matchmaking algorithms have more players in the pool to work with.
You either have cognitive dissonance regarding player feed back or you only know how to put a band aid on a sucking chest wound. Merging the 2 lower brackets of PVP is the worst idea. Players in the lowest bracket will have the opposite of a fun and positive experience, Ive played some Matches on a level 20 character, there is such a huge ability gap it feels nearly impossible to accomplish anything in the warzone other than dying repeatedly. How do you understand this to be fun or positive? Low level PVP is supposed to be a place for new players to learn their characters, learn the maps and figure out how PVP works so they are better prepared for LVL 75 PVP, which most of us long time players would appreciate because the current average skill level in PVP has a pretty low bar. You've taken that oppotunity away from them with this bracket merge.

I seriously doubt any of you has considered these problems at the time this idea was presented, how could you not think of that?

Are you still curious as to why we, the player base have lost faith in your ability to develop PVP changes in this game?

Ah but that's ok, as long as we still pay a subscription right? thats all that matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a video game, how unsafe can it be?

 

rofl - we'll find out soon enough if alrik fassbender still has a sub. we'll get a quote from niche or foucalt about systems of power and dominance masquerading as mechanisms of justice or freedom.

 

meanwhile, this is the strongest proof ever that BW jumped the shark. even -Bob- (the no victims, only volunteers guy who sees nothing wrong with anything) is triggered by these asinine pvp "fixes." debates over quests and quitting are one thing, but the lowbie change is so ridiculously screwed up that -Bob- (-BOB-!) has come out full throttle against it.

 

this is amazing. it's like staring at a train wreck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Hi everyone,

 

Now that players have had a chance to experience Game Update 6.3, we wanted to follow up on a change we had made with PvP brackets. Currently, there are now two brackets instead of three.

 

Previous brackets:

  • Levels 10-42
  • Levels 43-74
  • Level 75

 

Current brackets:

  • Levels 10-74
  • Level 75

 

The intention behind the change was to increase the number of PvP players available for the whole queue. We are in the process of analyzing the data for this change and also gathering feedback from players who participate in PvP.

 

We understand the impact that this had on our PvP community, and will be mindful of communicating changes such as consolidating the number of total queues and their intentions ahead of time before they are implemented.

 

While we are on the topic of PvP, we are aware of the questions regarding the future of PvP and what that looks like.

 

We briefly touched on some of the longer-term plans in a post last fall <link>. Our overall goal for PvP is to support modes that accommodate safe, healthy competition. We believe that if we can do this, we can encourage more players to try out PvP and foster a growing, positive community. The more players we have playing PvP modes, the better quality the experience becomes overall. As a result, queue times are reduced and matchmaking algorithms have more players in the pool to work with. To get there, we have been working on what the future of PvP could look like.

 

We have made great progress here, and laid out a couple of initiatives in-line with the transition. First, we’re keeping the existing Seasonal structure and rewards plan through Season 14 to allow us the time to finish our exploration and implement the next version of PvP. Next, we’ve been gathering feedback from the community on what sort of changes you would like to see. We are exploring things like map voting/selection, accounting for classes in matchmaking, tighter brackets in matchmaking, and the reward structures in all of the current ranked and unranked modes.

 

Thank you all for your continued feedback!

 

-Chris

 

:csw_jabbapet:

 

Why does it feel like you only listen to the ranked crowd and making it healthy at the expense of the reg crowd.

 

Are you actually seeing an increase in pvpers since you made the changes last year?

 

Are you seeing people happy on the forums or Discord or reddit about the changes?

 

If you want to encourage more people to play pvp, then you need to make it fun and not just about ranked competition.

 

Are you actually listening to the reg community feed back because there’s been plenty given for over 8-9 months now and we’ve had no tweaks to the reg system to improve it. But it feels like you’ve been tweaking the ranked system every time someone posts a death bug on Discord.

 

If you want a healthy ranked population and people trying it, then you need to first make regs fun and not arduous. There are many threads over the last 9 months and the majority of the feed back is people aren’t having fun and the reasons have been laid out in those threads.

 

So I guess the question is, have you been personally been reading them or just getting notes given to you. Because it sure feels like you aren’t listening to what’s being said.

 

Lastly, if you don’t care about regs to take the development as seriously as ranked, then just get rid of regs and make it all ranked. At least people will know once and for all where you guys stand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why does it feel like you only listen to the ranked crowd and making it healthy at the expense of the reg crowd.

 

Are you actually seeing an increase in pvpers since you made the changes last year?

 

Are you seeing people happy on the forums or Discord or reddit about the changes?

 

If you want to encourage more people to play pvp, then you need to make it fun and not just about ranked competition.

 

Are you actually listening to the reg community feed back because there’s been plenty given for over 8-9 months now and we’ve had no tweaks to the reg system to improve it. But it feels like you’ve been tweaking the ranked system every time someone posts a death bug on Discord.

 

If you want a healthy ranked population and people trying it, then you need to first make regs fun and not arduous. There are many threads over the last 9 months and the majority of the feed back is people aren’t having fun and the reasons have been laid out in those threads.

 

So I guess the question is, have you been personally been reading them or just getting notes given to you. Because it sure feels like you aren’t listening to what’s being said.

 

Lastly, if you don’t care about regs to take the development as seriously as ranked, then just get rid of regs and make it all ranked. At least people will know once and for all where you guys stand.

 

I dont know why you say that they actually hear the ranked community. They dont hear reg and ranked community at all. Thats a fact, Here is not a thing between ranked/regs, this is a PVP issue, and that involves both aspects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know why you say that they actually hear the ranked community. They dont hear reg and ranked community at all. Thats a fact, Here is not a thing between ranked/regs, this is a PVP issue, and that involves both aspects.

 

If you participate in the discord channels with Chris you would know that’s not completely true

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only discord I "participate" with him is the PVP one on theorycrafter discord. Doesnt say "ranked" it says pvp, they talk about PVP in general. But, as I said, the issue here is about both. Dsync happens in both, broken maps happens in both, lack of attention from devs happens in both.

 

The state of the PVP in general is just sad. And is not the game itself, is the work devs are putting into it the problem. For example, you remember when it was a monthly report about accounts banned for cheating here in this forum? What happened? It required so much effort that devs stopped caring about it? It had great feedback, remember? Ranked pvpers were happy about it and....it dissapeared.

 

Its a little example how much "they care" about pvp (And notice that was ranked PVP, and you said they "hear" ranked pvpers)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rofl - we'll find out soon enough if alrik fassbender still has a sub. we'll get a quote from niche or foucalt about systems of power and dominance masquerading as mechanisms of justice or freedom.

 

meanwhile, this is the strongest proof ever that BW jumped the shark. even -Bob- (the no victims, only volunteers guy who sees nothing wrong with anything) is triggered by these asinine pvp "fixes." debates over quests and quitting are one thing, but the lowbie change is so ridiculously screwed up that -Bob- (-BOB-!) has come out full throttle against it.

 

this is amazing. it's like staring at a train wreck.

 

I don't think there is "nothing wrong with anything", I'm just of the opinion that many things complained about on these forums aren't as incredibly game breaking as most people would make them out to be,like premades in WZs... again thats my opinion.

I am also not a victim, playing low bracket WZs is an option, making me a volunteer as well as every other pvper in this game. The change to merge brackets is so obviously ridiculous, we all see it.

After the patch came out and i was lurking these forums i decided to resub for 1 more month just to get a feel for it and man it is one of the worst changes because i believe it will have a domino effect and not in a positive way.

and something about this line sets off a red flag with me

Our overall goal for PvP is to support modes that accommodate safe, healthy competition.

it sounds like coddle culture trying to take over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The intention behind the change was to increase the number of PvP players available for the whole queue.

 

Totally understandable and only time will tell (with your 'daily metrics' ) to see whether or not it has worked...long term.

 

We are in the process of analyzing the data for this change and also gathering feedback from players who participate in PvP.

 

Cool. See my umm "radical" suggestions below.

 

regarding the future of PvP and what that looks like.

 

We believe we can encourage more players to try out PvP and foster a growing, positive community.

 

The "growing" part is admirable (and even possible) but lol the "positive" part? in PVP ?! Like, really?

 

I've never witnessed a "positive" PVP community in any video-game. Ever.

 

So yeah, good luck with that. ;)

 

p.s. You could try turning off all in-game 'chats' during PVP (except Mail) plus removing the ' /spit ' emote , and MAYBE that might help with some semblance of "positivity" . Maybe.

 

we’ve been gathering feedback from the community on what sort of changes you would like to see.

 

 

Here's what i'd like:

-- bring back PVP gear & expertise stat

 

-- combine ranked & regs into into all warzone giant queue (but keep the requirements needed to get Ranked rewards/rankings)

 

-- incorporate open-world PVP zones (Ilum, Outlaw's Den, & all kills within planet PVP 'instances' ) to also count as ranked points but for a much lesser score amount than kills from wz's

 

-- allow duels to count as ranked points, but with diminishing returns per duel per player (as in, only 3 duels vs. the same player per week would count toward the overall ranking)

 

-- convert the 'Bounty Hunter Event' to go all year 'round 24/7 (Why would Shae Vizla or Boba Fett or IG-88 only hunt bounties for the Hutts during such a small pre-announced limited window every few months?!?! It's ridiculous, non-canon, and totally un-immersive. ) and allow for PLAYER bounties (opt-in, out of phases,etc. ) with diminishing returns and/or gated to only allow the same player (or legacy) to be hunted/killed once a day.

 

-- introduce a 100% (except for starports) PVP ZONE , like oh i dunno 'Endor' or 'Kashyyyk' , whereby certain 'Grade 12' resource bases are battled over continuously with player-used mounts, cannons, vehicles, etc. (sorta like ESO does with 'Cyrodiil' ) . Think of it as the Hoth battle from Ep.5 , plus 'Fortnite' , plus 'SW Battlefront' , but SWTOR version (lag & all :D ). And it would coincide with each Ranked 'Season' (or Galactic Season even) , so that players would feel like we're actually fighting for SOMETHING other than only typical carrot shineys on a re-skinned stick.

 

...What? Ideas are just too "radical" to even try? What have u guys got to lose at this point? More sub$?

 

Cartel Market takes care of that regardless, does it not?

 

No reward without some risk. :ph_use_the_force:

------

then just get rid of regs and make it all ranked. .

 

QFE ^ , and i been suggesting that for a while too. /shrug

Edited by Nee-Elder
Please BIOWARE ... consider my IDEAS. Please.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

T

-- bring back PVP gear & expertise stat

 

this is never going to happen. I preferred it then as well. but it's definitely a non-starter. pvp population is small. pve population that comes into pvp and does seed quests and conquest in pvp is high. the elimination of pvp gear is for them. also, that's the trend in other similar games over time. I don't see that going back at all. alas. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unranked pvp is generally good natured at the moment but as an average pvp'er who enjoys it well enough I don't know that I'd be welcome in ranked even if my being there made queues pop faster.

 

Would it be possible to have a ranking in general pvp where there are a decent amout of people there that would mean you are unlikely to be best or worst due to population size and better likelihood of moving up or down on any given season. There could still be a 4v4 ranked if that was what others wanted.

 

Maybe PVP should be split between deathmatches and respawnable matches rather than its current format and let people queue for the type they enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stopped PvPing when losses no longer counted as 1 out of 15 for the weekly. That didn't really feel much like encouraging participation.

 

Sorry you couldn't be carried but that has nothing to do with bracket changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only discord I "participate" with him is the PVP one on theorycrafter discord. Doesnt say "ranked" it says pvp, they talk about PVP in general. But, as I said, the issue here is about both. Dsync happens in both, broken maps happens in both, lack of attention from devs happens in both.

 

The state of the PVP in general is just sad. And is not the game itself, is the work devs are putting into it the problem. For example, you remember when it was a monthly report about accounts banned for cheating here in this forum? What happened? It required so much effort that devs stopped caring about it? It had great feedback, remember? Ranked pvpers were happy about it and....it dissapeared.

 

Its a little example how much "they care" about pvp (And notice that was ranked PVP, and you said they "hear" ranked pvpers)

 

I didn’t say it was perfect communication or they listened to all the feed back for ranked. But when you compare it to Regs, it’s 1000% better than what they do for regs. You would know from the discord channel that it’s 99.99% ranked players and discussion. The things Chris “fixes” or takes feed back on that he responds to is always ranked pvp, not regs.

 

I agree that there is little care for pvp in general. Neither ranked or regs get the attention they deserve from the dev team and communication is horrible, especially here on the forums. But 99.99% of the communication and attention that does happen is focused on ranked compared to regs. It’s not good for either, but it’s abysmal for regs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry you couldn't be carried but that has nothing to do with bracket changes.

 

a deaf blind mute can be carried. the win ratio is something like 1:3 or 1:4. but that's me running around doing 380k (not sure about the decimal) in a 4-round AHG on a concentration sent played very poorly (have to stare at quickbars) with 6-pcs victor's (ghetto) and all of 4 slots augmented. 4 matches per night is pretty easy to squeeze into an hour at all times of day (on SF). the only concession to "seriousness" I made was as close to 700 acc (853) and 1220 alac (1253) as I could get.

 

I think when he says it's not "fun," he means he's not having "fun," not that he cannot complete the daily. but iunno. some other ppl have said they flat cannot do it in 10 games. I find that very difficult to take seriously.

 

I noticed a world of difference on IO merc from leveling (taking any old gear that dropped for the ilvl) and then balancing stats, augs, set pcs, and amps. Easily jumped my output 30% all told. verdict is still out on arsenal as I'm bored with it and also out of money trying to get the right amps. so it is very easy to be carried when you're running around effectively hitting things with a pool noodle.

 

as for the "topic" of the thread, does anyone really need to comment at this point? unlike the other usual issues on this board, the 10-74 is universally disliked by the player base afaik. more so than even the consternation ppl showed when instead of starting season 1 of ranked WZs, BW canceled ranked WZs all together and said "HAI. LET'S DO ARENAS U LAIK MOAR WE PROMISE SNOOCHY BOOCHIES!"

 

edit: as long as this is going to be a piss thread, no wonder players ignore objectives in quesh. you can't even leap to players on the top ledges. like...ok. I'll just run up the ramp to give my teammate someone to pass to, but while I'm waiting for the slime, let me just sit here and take it in the face from that sage BECAUSE i CANNOT LEAP TO HIM. ditto for standing in mid while ranged just plays fish in a barrel with you from their ledge. I get not letting you leap with the ball. but no leap at all? that's a fundamental part of warrior offensive and defensive abilities. WHAT IN THE HOLY HELL IS QUESH DOING BACK IN THE ROTATION. lmao no wonder no one plays the objectives.

Edited by foxmob
Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...