We’d just be saying the same things we’ve constantly been saying for 10 months.

 

Um has it not been longer, then just 10 moths no?

They don't read NOR care as there are still ppl who are walking through walls and max cheating.

To the OP....

 

As someone who usually is in that lopsided half, there is an actual strategy to it. If I'm working in conjunction with one other person well, two people can easily hold off an uncoordinated six or seven. Not to mention for objective based all we need to do is survive long enough to interrupt captures. Can be done with a variety of classes. Was one of the people who didn't want to PvP bc constantly being tunnelled, then I learned how to gear & play... Which I will agree is the primary issue, They simply don't teach you HOW to play in the game. Only chance you have is finding someone willing to teach, as even the guides aren't really helpful atm. (Good to introduce to some concepts but not endgame PvP)

 

It really is a mix of skill, stats, and teamwork more then anything else. Huttball is about the only match that's imbalanced classwise in my opinion, and that's just cause certain classes can easily cheese its mechanics.

 

I dislike that BW has forced people into PvP, so I'll agree with you there. Was such a horrid decision, I can't believe they thought that was a good idea. Same with 74s being put up against level 15s. But its not the PvPers fault that they made such a shortsighted mistake.

 

But 2 v 7 or what have you, they'll keep happening until people learn to work together to oppose them. Skill, Teamwork, Gear.

I dislike that BW has forced people into PvP, so I'll agree with you there. Was such a horrid decision, I can't believe they thought that was a good idea.

Even worse is that BW claims that PvP is now popular therefore the changes they made over 2021 were successful.

 

But 2 v 7 or what have you, they'll keep happening until people learn to work together to oppose them. Skill, Teamwork, Gear.

 

And here is the larger issue. People talk about L2P, get the right gear/tactical, know your class, try harder, etc.

What HAS been stated and completely ignored by those who say PvP is fine and you're the derp, I'm the one player on my team that knows the strategy, has the gear, tries my best, etc, but playing with 7 derps on my team I won't get the point for the win and somehow that's MY fault.

 

What has not been addressed AFAIK is: is it really fair to expect casual players in unranked to do all that to play a warzone? Change their tactical from PvE to PvP or even knowing what tacticals are used for PvP? Change gear and again what gearing should be different for PvP? Ditto their proficiencies. Know the strategy BEFORE playing i.e. no learning on the job? I contend that no, that is NOT a fair expectation in unranked but rather for the pros playing ranked. Again those that claim everything is great in PvP now ignore that there are in fact two PvPs (ranked and unranked) and by their nature should be treated differently by Bioware.

Edited July 18, 2021 by EllieAnne

Two nights ago on 75s I had a sin on my team playing with no tactical and a single bladed, level 210 saber with no crystal. Their total gear rating was 233. These are the kinds of players who are held off by people 7v2.

 

In the last 3 weeks I've queued on leth and played multiple games using only rifle shot for all attacks - I did 2k DPS and 3k HPS. Then another few games using only corrosive grenade, literally spamming it as the only attack. 4800 DPS, 3k HPS.

 

No amount of balancing will fix people so utterly incompetent they are playing with the wrong weapon or who can't even do the same output as someone who is only pressing basic attack every 1.5 seconds. Bioware needs to fix that player education problem if it can even be done.

 

Im thinking the 1st thing BW could do is get rid of the auto level boost to 70 that can be purchased. Not sure how a player with less than 1 hr of actual game experience can be expected to be anything but incompetent..but then again KA-CHING right BW?

Even worse is that BW claims that PvP is now popular therefore the changes they made over 2021 were successful.

 

.

 

When you look at the numbers, there are more people playing it, same as GSF....but how many are actually 'playing' versus how many are just afk'ing through it.

 

Extra CQ points, and GS pushed many people to play pvp/gsf, and BW are patting themselves on the back claiming they've done a wonderful thing. But the content has suffered, you've more afk players, more bad players, who don't want to learn, or even try.

 

It is more popular, but for all the wrong reasons.

I keep reading that people are being forced to PVP. No one is forcing anyone to play any content. If you don't want to pvp just do the same as any PVPer does with the weekly for operations or flashpoints - skip it. You won't end up that far behind in the end.

 

It will cost like 30 mil credits to level up GS from 90 to 100 at the end. (Assuming you're at least 10 levels behind the pace). Especially since PVE rewards far more credits than PVP, that should be a pittance for you. Quit the whining.

I keep reading that people are being forced to PVP. No one is forcing anyone to play any content. If you don't want to pvp just do the same as any PVPer does with the weekly for operations or flashpoints - skip it. You won't end up that far behind in the end.

 

At the start people weren't too sure how long it would last, or how often they'd have to skip, so at the start, people did feel forced in to it. Now looking back, it's easier to see how much it can be spaced out. But that's assuming you started at the beginning, people have joined the game since, and some are playing catch up, possibly doing all objectives, so they don't miss out.

 

It will cost like 30 mil credits to level up GS from 90 to 100 at the end. (Assuming you're at least 10 levels behind the pace). Especially since PVE rewards far more credits than PVP, that should be a pittance for you. Quit the whining.

 

30 million maybe nothing to you, but i'm sure there are plenty of people who won't have it, or don't have it to spare. So catching up that way, is not an option for everyone. Also, don't forget the credit catch up is only good for 3 levels (at the most) for free/preff players.

When you look at the numbers, there are more people playing it, same as GSF....but how many are actually 'playing' versus how many are just afk'ing through it.

 

Extra CQ points, and GS pushed many people to play pvp/gsf, and BW are patting themselves on the back claiming they've done a wonderful thing. But the content has suffered, you've more afk players, more bad players, who don't want to learn, or even try.

 

It is more popular, but for all the wrong reasons.

 

The problem is the numbers are intentionally skewed.

 

When ChrisS made his statement on discord that more people were playing pvp (in support of his changes), he was specifically asked what the numbers were a before GS started. And guess what? Surprise, surprise, he refused to answer.

 

Which proves he was using theses massaged numbers from the increased GS response to support his failed changes he made 8 months earlier and were killing pvp. Without GS, pvp would be in a terribly slow pop state at the moment.

 

So anyone saying pvp is more popular because of his changes is flat out lying. Not even ChrisS had enough courage to tell that lie. He just refused to answer when asked (to keep his hands clean). That way he can let others defend the stupid policies that were killing reg pvp.

Also, this GS argument is certainly manipulative. So, you mean to tell me that the one and done players are the only reason pvp numbers are up? Come on, that just makes no sense. These same people that don't care about pvp, don't want to be there, and can't wait to get out after the match are the reason? I do not agree here...sorry.

 

It makes perfect sense because GS requires participation, not wins, so many of us might be in PvP for GS requirements but do not do PvP once done. It will be interesting to see if the numbers drop off as players start completing GS - I just finished today and I don't intend to do any PvP until "required" in the next season.

This might be a hot take, but using using mechanics correctly = skill

 

I do get what you mean, I think this game’s high ttk brings more negative than positive and there are some mechanics that need revisiting which hopefully is coming in 7.0 and beyond, but there are a lot of ways to mitigate losing a 7v2 by just learning how to play because I’d guarantee if you’re complaining about regs, you don’t actually know as much as you think you do.

 

Also, if you don’t wanna PvP, you can get a daily or weekly reroll on it. You can do GS without touching PvP at all

there are a lot of ways to mitigate losing a 7v2 by just learning how to play

 

Again

1) Expecting casual players to know how to play their first few warzones is not fair - especially how no one teaches them how to play OR they plain don't listen.

2) OK, so I play perfect and the 6 idiots don't so it's fair that I get nothing for my effort?

3) This doesn't even account for the players that don't care about objectives and are there for murder-death-kill.

Again

1) Expecting casual players to know how to play their first few warzones is not fair - especially how no one teaches them how to play OR they plain don't listen.

2) OK, so I play perfect and the 6 idiots don't so it's fair that I get nothing for my effort?

3) This doesn't even account for the players that don't care about objectives and are there for murder-death-kill.

 

I'm all for playing WZ objectives, and I've made it abundantly clear that I find the players who turn it into a DM sandbox are a net-loss for the game overall but eh. it's their sub. I've also expressed my concern that while they are allowed to "ruin" object-based WZs, I am penalized for leaving matches for which they ignore the win conditions. There's something very wrong with that.

 

HOWEVER, I just had an interaction today in AHG that...I didn't have the words for. I was healing (which I already hate) at mid. it was 3 of us and 4 of the other team. and this dude on my team runs right up next to me and starts channeling an orb.

 

I'm literally dying right next to him, and he's gonna sit there channeling the orb. like.... So I ask him why he's channeling the node and says there was no pylon call. like...ok.... I explain that we needed him mid and his response is, "it's an objectives WZ." it's this level of complete, absolute, utter *********** stupidity that goes on in just about every reg WZ.

 

I'm sorry folks, but regs are a joke. go. have fun DMing or playing for the win. But this is what you're playing with or against. To take it seriously, to rage at players who leave b/c the don't like the map or feel like it's a lost cause or w/e reason...or to rage against the ppl completely ignoring objectives on purpose to DM...it's really wasted energy. Y'all need to accept the fact that reg WZs are a fustercluck and loosen the **** up. complaining about leavers or ppl not playing your way in a mishmash like this is just...yeay...i give up. w/e. piss and moan all you like, syssyphus.

 

it's ppl like severin the snape dude (this thread? another?) who treats them like hallowed ground that are the "real" problem. regs never were and never will be srs bzns.

Edited July 23, 2021 by CheesyEZ

I'm a new player to the game, and I just learned about how the GS works and priority missions. I don't PvP for the exact reasons stated here. There is a huge learning curve with no "newbie" zone, and basically everyone I have spoken with in game (and from the looks of it, the forums as well) all state the same thing, "It is frustrating, broken, and the people are toxic." So nope. I'll be avoiding that whole scene. This is a game I am playing for enjoyment and escapism, I don't want it to feel like a second job or feel the need to rage quit because of the issues listed here. Y'all can keep that hot mess.

 

One question I will ask. Everyone keeps saying, "Learn to Play". For those of us that are new, don't have end game gear, and have yet to step foot into a match....where? Where do we learn to play? When you step into PvP you are expected to be an instant subject matter expert on every mechanic there. If there is no chance for progression of skills, I ask again, learn from where?

I'm a new player to the game, and I just learned about how the GS works and priority missions. I don't PvP for the exact reasons stated here. There is a huge learning curve with no "newbie" zone, and basically everyone I have spoken with in game (and from the looks of it, the forums as well) all state the same thing, "It is frustrating, broken, and the people are toxic." So nope. I'll be avoiding that whole scene. This is a game I am playing for enjoyment and escapism, I don't want it to feel like a second job or feel the need to rage quit because of the issues listed here. Y'all can keep that hot mess.

 

One question I will ask. Everyone keeps saying, "Learn to Play". For those of us that are new, don't have end game gear, and have yet to step foot into a match....where? Where do we learn to play? When you step into PvP you are expected to be an instant subject matter expert on every mechanic there. If there is no chance for progression of skills, I ask again, learn from where?

 

You aren't expected to become an instant subject matter expert, but you are expected to know the basics of your class and to be able to react quickly to the other players. The most frustrating games in PVP are the ones where there is a massive skill gap - 3 or 4 players outputting "normal" damage (7k-12k dps) while the rest of the players on either team are doing 2-3k dps). You can do 2k dps if you only press your basic attack every 1.5s for the entire warzone. There is no reason for you to ever do less than 5k unless you are guarding an objective.

 

Much of what is wrong with SWTOR pvp would be better if there were more players (matchmaking in regs could create a "newbie zone" as you put it, if there were enough players). It's a paradox now, since it's very difficult to get interested in PVP if you aren't good enough to pvp at a high level right now.

I mean, pretty much walked head first into the point there. It took a paragraph to say it, but the message is undeniable, "Get gud, learn to play." Sure it is masked with "know the basics of your class" and "they aren't outputting normal damage", but the message is the same. To which my retort would be, "Yes, but where do you learn those skills?" In the Crawl, walk, run style most MMORPG's take, where is the crawl? There's not. There's just a community of people that all get to claim to have been "playing since beta" telling people like myself, that are new, we should inherently know the basics of our class so we can put out the same damage as people that "have been playing since BETA, just took a break."

I mean, pretty much walked head first into the point there. It took a paragraph to say it, but the message is undeniable, "Get gud, learn to play." Sure it is masked with "know the basics of your class" and "they aren't outputting normal damage", but the message is the same. To which my retort would be, "Yes, but where do you learn those skills?" In the Crawl, walk, run style most MMORPG's take, where is the crawl? There's not. There's just a community of people that all get to claim to have been "playing since beta" telling people like myself, that are new, we should inherently know the basics of our class so we can put out the same damage as people that "have been playing since BETA, just took a break."

 

You can learn most of the basics you should know for pvp by playing veteran or master mode content like flash points, uprisings or operations.

 

That will teach you DCDs, rotations and cooperative play. And with a little effort on your part, you can gear up BiS and look at a few YouTube vids or forum stickies to find out tactics and strategy.

 

It’s a shame Bioware destroyed the incentives in 5.0 (removed pvp comms and gear) for people to learn in lowbie pvp as they lvl’d up. That has been a major reason for skill degradation in pvp.

Edited July 24, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

One question I will ask. Everyone keeps saying, "Learn to Play". For those of us that are new, don't have end game gear, and have yet to step foot into a match....where? Where do we learn to play? When you step into PvP you are expected to be an instant subject matter expert on every mechanic there. If there is no chance for progression of skills, I ask again, learn from where?

 

Try to read your tooltip. Try to look up some guides. There is a thing called "google." It's amazing the kind of information on the internet. And just play and learn from the expierence... idk... if hundreds of thousands of other people can do it, why can't you? What's so special about you that you can't learn?

Edited July 25, 2021 by septru

here is why I hate pvp. you go in because the game doesn't let you change the objective and if maker help you you are behind on levels and would rather NOT spend credits you do not have or cartel coins to catch up. so you go into pvp. and you genuinely try with all your potato might. and get yelled at by players anyway.

 

my favorite one was today.

 

I'm playing startfighter, because this is what the game gave me as weekly when I changed it from operations (I'm sorry folks, but pugging ops is even less of an idea of fun for me. at least the queue moves faster) but notheless. I'm trying. I read the guides. I tried different ships and picked the one that I had the least struggle controlling (its still a struggle, but other were worse). I upgraded whatever I could afford. I almost never self destruct anymore. 3d movement, especially flight is something that is difficult for me on a best day, but i'm trying. I'm genuinely trying to get better.

 

I get yelled at for dying. I get told to hide in a corner, even though the game specifically yelled at me that I'm about to be kicked, when I was not even hiding, but rather couldn't manage to hit anything while flying around and trying to shoot things. hiding in a corner? is NOT an option in starfighter. I'm accused of ruining the game for everyone.

 

but here is the best part. match ends. and I see that 1. I actualy have 2 kills and 7 assists. 2. I only have one more death then most other people in the match. 3 there are like 4 people with 1 kill and fewer assists as well. and I'm told, in chat that starfighter is the game of practice.

 

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO PRACTICE BUT BY PLAYING, EXACTLY? YOU ARE YELLING AT ME...... FOR TRYING TO PRACTICE. FFS.

 

so this is why I hate pvp. because of people are part of it. why was I singled out? I don't know. maybe it was a second match they played with me in a row? but I was saying nothing in chat, until they called me out BY NAME.

 

so dear bioware. I really hope you reconsider this pvp pushing, because NO one is happy here apparently. not people who want to pvp because they have us "scrubs" to deal with. and certainly not us "scrubs"

Try to read your tooltip. Try to look up some guides. There is a thing called "google." It's amazing the kind of information on the internet. And just play and learn from the expierence... idk... if hundreds of thousands of other people can do it, why can't you? What's so special about you that you can't learn?

 

and here, folks we have exhibit A.

 

even with reading the guilds, the only way to learn is by practice, by DOING. and that means going into pvp. you literally expect people to just... be good without practice? just by reading some guides? NOTHING WORKS THAT WAY. not video games, and not real life.

and here, folks we have exhibit A.

 

even with reading the guilds, the only way to learn is by practice, by DOING. and that means going into pvp. you literally expect people to just... be good without practice? just by reading some guides? NOTHING WORKS THAT WAY. not video games, and not real life.

 

reg WZs and GSF (any GSF) are meaningless diversions. some ppl take it very seriously and yell and rage. the fact of the matter is that it is not at all comnpetitive. half the players in any given GSF game are 1 or 2 shot kills b/c they're on entry level ships. even if you had honed skills/reactions, you're not going to do anything w/o a geared ship. period. everyone know this. it's just the way the game is structured. you have to suffer.

 

reg WZs are less difficult because of bolster, but there are many other issues. it's very common that half or more of the players in the WZ are not interested in actually winning but just ignore the objective conditions and go around looking to death match. meanwhile, there are almost always 3-6 players who just have no real idea how to play either their class, against other classes, or how the WZ works. so taking reg WZs seriously is a bit of a joke, given all of these factors.

 

now if you were to queue ranked pvp, SR especially, then you would be expected to have a much higher level of competence as that is a competitive environment AND your ineptitude directly harms your teammates' ratings. if you want to make a group or a couple groups, you can go play kickball in group ranked and risk getting farmed by a random grp of good players who see what you're doing, but no one is going to rage at you since your teammates are your friends. the only issue is you need at least 8 ppl to get that going.

 

good luck.

reg WZs and GSF (any GSF) are meaningless diversions. some ppl take it very seriously and yell and rage. the fact of the matter is that it is not at all comnpetitive. half the players in any given GSF game are 1 or 2 shot kills b/c they're on entry level ships. even if you had honed skills/reactions, you're not going to do anything w/o a geared ship. period. everyone know this. it's just the way the game is structured. you have to suffer.

 

reg WZs are less difficult because of bolster, but there are many other issues. it's very common that half or more of the players in the WZ are not interested in actually winning but just ignore the objective conditions and go around looking to death match. meanwhile, there are almost always 3-6 players who just have no real idea how to play either their class, against other classes, or how the WZ works. so taking reg WZs seriously is a bit of a joke, given all of these factors.

 

now if you were to queue ranked pvp, SR especially, then you would be expected to have a much higher level of competence as that is a competitive environment AND your ineptitude directly harms your teammates' ratings. if you want to make a group or a couple groups, you can go play kickball in group ranked and risk getting farmed by a random grp of good players who see what you're doing, but no one is going to rage at you since your teammates are your friends. the only issue is you need at least 8 ppl to get that going.

 

good luck.

 

last I checked you need to be valor 40 to queue up for ranked warzones. not sure what the requirement for GSF is, but I've only been queueing up for unranked for both. even though I have a character with valor 40 that i pvped on quite a bit at some point, that was years ago and I'm older and far to rusty to play the way I used to.

 

the nonsense I've been encountering and describing? this attitude of "l2p" but not like that? was in UNRANKED. THAT. is the problem.

 

the attitudes of people are unpleasant and make even these "meaningless diversions" extremely unfun

Edited July 26, 2021 by Jeweledleah

Sadly, Bioware are 100% at fault with regards to players having no “safe” space to learn.

 

1. Bioware dumbed down the pve content in the game so players dont understand 1/10th of their DCDs, rotations, priority abilities, best in slot stats or BiS gear sets. These things should/could all be learnt in pve and in the past they were. So when people entered pvp at max lvl, they mostly had an understanding of most of this because the pve part of the game required it.

 

2. Bioware removed pvp gearing and pvp comms (currency) to get that gear. People used to play lowbies and mid pvp as they lvl’d up to obtain pvp comms. So when they reached max lvl, they could buy the entry lvl pvp gear. This “was” the “safe” space in the game for people to learn. When comms were removed, Bioware essentially removed the incentive for people to pvp as they lvl’d up. By not replacing the system with another incentive, they killed off the pop times and therefore the safest place for people to learn.

 

3. Bioware made lvling up in all parts of the game accelerated so people would rush to their latest end game development. They added instant lvling tokens and made lvling super quick. This reduced people’s time to learn new abilities as they received them.

 

To sum up: Making the content super easy, rushing people to end game and removing the incentives to pvp as you lvl’d up has meant that people start to pvp at max lvl. Which is a really bad design because they are essentially learning in an end game environment against seasoned players who understand all the fundamentals. It’s not a “safe” place for them to learn and it’s a really bad design because they don’t know their abilities, they don’t know tactics or strategy and they really haven’t a clue what they are doing,

 

Bioware could easily turn lowbies and Mids back into a proper learning space if they so chose, but they don’t care and fundamentally don’t understand their own game. Which was obvious from their borked up attempt at merging lowbies and Mids a few months ago.

 

Some of us argued vehemently against Bioware ignoring lowbie and mid pvp after 4.x.. We offered many suggestions for 3-4 years on how to fix that space. Many threads and hundreds of posts have been made about this topic and Bioware just do not listen or give a damn about the quality of play in lowbies, Mids or even Regs, they only care about ranked. That is mostly why we have such poor pvp in this game now. It all went down hill very fast from 5.0 onwards. During the 2.x to 4.x days, pvp was fairly good and had a much higher average of skilled players than now.

 

Bioware and even many of the elite pvpers have never understood that what happens outside of ranked will eventually make its way into ranked or degrade ranked too. The attitude that regs doesn’t matter or lowbies doesn’t matter is why we have such poor attitudes and terrible average skill in all LvLs of pvp (including ranked).

 

Sadly, nothing changes and Bioware don’t care or listen. That is why it looks like they are going to dumb down advance classes by pruning abilities in 7.0 in the hope people don’t have to “learn” to play properly and they can just button mash. It’s my opinion this will be the third dumbest thing they’ve done to pvp and will make the skill LvL drop even further than now. Removing abilities doesn’t make people play better or make it easier to learn if they don’t have other systems in place for them to learn them.

Edited July 26, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

I want to like pvp as a casual player, I have kids so play time is rare. As to the get good argument its tired and does no good for a player. What I would like to see is either get rid of unranked play and make EVERYONE play ranked at 75 using all the maps...only the 4v4 arenas would count for team play but everything else is individual performance. I am sick and tired of stacked teams going into an unranked wz and just wrecking the game for everyone. and yes the stun lock immunity is completely a useless mechanic and I watch it get abused endlessly by veteran ranked players. BIOWARE if you are going to make us pvp at least make it fun and entertaining.

. half the players in any given GSF game are 1 or 2 shot kills b/c they're on entry level ships. even if you had honed skills/reactions, you're not going to do anything w/o a geared ship. period. everyone know this. it's just the way the game is structured. you have to suffer.

 

Everyone does not know this. It is a myth frequently spread around by people with little experience in GSF that have no clue why they're really getting wrecked in every match.

 

Gear isn't irrelevant in GSF, but it is conditionally relevant. Gear matters if and only if you are in combat against one other player who is very close in skill level to your own skill level. In any other circumstance experience/skill or being outnumbered swamps gear differences.

 

A scoreboard line of 10-15 kills, 12-18 assists, 40,000 to 80,000 damage is perfectly reasonable for a stock ship in GSF. If the pilot is highly skilled.

 

Now this doesn't mean you don't have to suffer. You'll still suffer, but it's not because the components aren't upgraded. It's because of things like not having learned the differences in how fast different missiles beep when you're being locked, and therefore not knowing if the missile currently locking you can safely be ignored or if you must LOS it before it fires if you want to survive. By the time people have learned that sort of thing they've played enough matches so that stock ships a distant memory, unless they're starting over in an alt. If they do though, knowing if the beeps of a missile lock are serious danger or not is much more important to have than the component upgrades that they no longer have.

 

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO PRACTICE BUT BY PLAYING, EXACTLY? YOU ARE YELLING AT ME...... FOR TRYING TO PRACTICE. FFS.

 

 

this is what the ignore player's legacy command is for. ignore player, keep going.