The X-Wing wouldn't have been able to resist Yoda's efforts to lift it. Luke had made up his mind to jump rather than submit to Vader. Even if Vader was able to catch Luke, Luke would've been able to resist.

I don't think he was trained enough (its advanced Force training to be able to resist force powers), neither was he attuned to light side enough, that my-father-is-the-galaxy's-evil thing must have made him confused also. I think it was rather Anakin letting him go (you know his light side never died and we are talking about his son, not some random jedi)

Your argument, OP, falls flat because you fail to realize that the ****** normals are even better than their counterparts.

Yes, the Smuggler is even more clever than Han Solo.

Spheal with it.

I'm pretty sure you could argue Havoc CO is a better trooper than Jace, too, what with the whole 'storms into a volcano base filled with hundreds of enemies alone and has no problem whatever'.

At level ten!

Han Solo is a damn good smuggler and probably on par with swtor smuggler, but he stood no chance against someone like Vader. People seem to forget Vader is far more powerful than even very powerful sith. He is estimated to be 80% the power of Sidious.

 

In the movies the best example of a non force user holding his own with a powerful force user is Jango Fett vs. Obi wan Kenobi. Fett gave Kenobi a pretty decent fight.

Okay but Vitiate is literally lightyears above Palpatine or any other Sith seen so far until someone can tell me where any Sith performed a feat equivalent to DRINKING A PLANET.

This is a pointless statement.

Yeah, OP, I have this problem too. I don't know how I shall play KotFE for IA or Trooper — thought about possible duel between Major and that Vader-like dude with yellow saber is laughable and pathetic. Seriously, force user >>>>>>>> any non-force user, no matter how skilled he is. I don't know, even battle with Revan for Cipher 9 or Voidhound looks damn stupid.

The only class that fits the whole game is swordsman: knight or warrior.

Yeah, OP, I have this problem too. I don't know how I shall play KotFE for IA or Trooper — thought about possible duel between Major and that Vader-like dude with yellow saber is laughable and pathetic. Seriously, force user >>>>>>>> any non-force user, no matter how skilled he is. I don't know, even battle with Revan for Cipher 9 or Voidhound looks damn stupid.

 

The only class that fits the whole game is swordsman: knight or warrior.

A lot of the class storylines for the non force users (all except BH) do seem to go "What?! Jedi/Sith?! I can't beat them alone!"

When rolling a second Smuggler, I came to think the solution was to say my smuggler was a force user who didn't go with either the Jedi or Sith teachings. Force user who uses blasters instead of a light saber! What helped sell it imo was going Miraluka.

It feels out of place because it is. SWTOR's original designs were a lot more like KOTOR. But it got wowified :/

The game we got isn't what was expected, which is why so many were dissapointed come release.

I get what you mean OP.

I love my scoundrel, but even I feel kinda awkward when I *****slap a Lord of the Sith to death using my palm and the back of my pistol.

I can get behind most of the other nonforceusers. Operatives for instance use vibroknifes which can block lighsabers and slice through pretty much anything. Troopers use overloaded (and oversized) guns. The kinetic force alone is enough to overpower pretty much everyone. Bounty Hunters use widespread fireattacks and explosive devices.

All okay, but Scoundrel is just silly.

The Trooper though idk. He really doesn't fit all that well imo even Republic Commandos get rather underwhelming gear compared to private contractors in SW.

In the Jedi Knight story line it was mentioned that the Republic considered that the Jedi wouldn't be able to help out anymore because the temple was destroyed. so they started programs to combat force users. I am pretty sure they tried to develop more than just the one program for comabting them after all they had to replace Jedis. Due to the hole in their forces. They had to develop tactics and close combat moves against them Additionally the player in the havoc squad is the best from the academy and he took some extra/special classes. Havoc squad has access to the best equipment money can buy.

In the Jedi Knight story line it was mentioned that the Republic considered that the Jedi wouldn't be able to help out anymore because the temple was destroyed. so they started programs to combat force users. I am pretty sure they tried to develop more than just the one program for comabting them after all they had to replace Jedis. Due to the hole in their forces. They had to develop tactics and close combat moves against them Additionally the player in the havoc squad is the best from the academy and he took some extra/special classes. Havoc squad has access to the best equipment money can buy.

Even then, it's a class not keen on fighting Sith. The only non force using class that doesn't seem to out right fear a force user, is the BH.

However, even with the class realizing "I'm so outclassed" they generally know they can't back out of it, so fight and come out winning.

I like to believe they're all just force sensitive enough to have enough of an edge though. I'm sure it's not what some want to do and they don't want to go with the idea of the books and movies where "Yes. If you're not a force user up against a force user...hope to get lucky."

Actually, it's all about tactics. Look at Order 66. Here you had non-force users taking out Jedi, and successfully I will add. Why were they successful? They ganged up on the Jedi.

It wasn't just the mass but the total surprise. The clones had been indoctrinated to follow orders to the letter, without questions, malice or prejudice. And they weren't walking about thinking "what if Order 66 comes today?" It was just one more order in their indoctrinated minds, no more or less important than taking out a combat walker or cleaning their guns. From the moment the order came to the triggerpull most of the Jedi didn't even get a premonition of danger, much less time to react.

A non-force sensitive with the right sort of chaotic (or extremely ordered) mind would likewise be almost impossible for a Jedi/Sith to read without going into a trance, and that's inviting a quick blaster bolt to the face.

Even then, it's a class not keen on fighting Sith. The only non force using class that doesn't seem to out right fear a force user, is the BH.

Speak for yourself, my Smuggler shot first against that Sith on Tatooine.

Smugglers and agents bring unorthodox tactics and tricks.

Troopers and hunters bring overwhelming firepower.

All 4 of them have training, stims, augments and who knows what else. Either from top military sources or black market. In my book, that goes far beyond "ordinary" enemies.

Force users bring glowsticks, TK, lightning and some mind pressure. All of that can be resisted to some degree. And all of them rely on their supposed superiority and traditions, instead of something that actually might give them and edge.

So yea. As far as 8 characters go, they all are more or less equal.

Smugglers and agents bring unorthodox tactics and tricks.

Troopers and hunters bring overwhelming firepower.

All 4 of them have training, stims, augments and who knows what else. Either from top military sources or black market. In my book, that goes far beyond "ordinary" enemies.

 

Force users bring glowsticks, TK, lightning and some mind pressure. All of that can be resisted to some degree. And all of them rely on their supposed superiority and traditions, instead of something that actually might give them and edge.

 

So yea. As far as 8 characters go, they all are more or less equal.

So it means you would go against "glowstick-wielding" sith with your bare fists, I take it?

It's the only way to make the game work. Otherwise any force user could go around force pinching aortic valves, or brain stems and kill everyone instantly. You have to suspend realism to play. Did it make sense in the movies that Vader could force strangle anybody he wanted to and then have Jedi in the prequels dying in the geonosis arena against robots that they could have easily used to the force to destroy a computer chip in their bodies and render them useless?

It's one thing to destroy 1 droid with the Force and it's an other thing to do that with an army of them Also if you don't know where is the chip in their body then you cant destroy it, you must crush the whole body, which takes more concentration. So yes, it's easier to use a lightsaber But it's similar with live ppl: pinching an artery and making the person bleed or crushing any organ is not easy, because the said person is shooting you or maybe combating you in melee or simply there is an army of them. That's why Force Wound is a special force power what not all of the Jedi/Sith (can) wield and it is usually not used in multiple-enemy combat.

So it means you would go against "glowstick-wielding" sith with your bare fists, I take it?

I personally would go with sniper rifle and >1km distance

If talking about famous "punch-the-****-out" scrapper, then i'd go with high-powered blaster, scattergun with flechette round, 3 types of grenades, stealth generator, various probes and drones, medpacks and, most likely, some heavy adrenal.

I personally would go with sniper rifle and >1km distance

 

If talking about famous "punch-the-****-out" scrapper, then i'd go with high-powered blaster, scattergun with flechette round, 3 types of grenades, stealth generator, various probes and drones, medpacks and, most likely, some heavy adrenal.

Well, tech stealth can't hide you from force sensitives if they really wanna find you Ofc sniper is better choice, I always thought scrapper scoundrel is silly. I know scattergun is built specifically against lightsabers but fighting with fists... And it's not even Echani

Ok a couple of things to remember.

Swtor is Legends continuity and in Legends, Jango Fett killed 6 jedi with his bare hands (Jango Fett - Open Seasons #3). He also killed Jedi Master Coleman Trebor in Episode 2. It took Mace Windu, one of the greatest jedi duelist ever to take him down.

As to Vader himself. Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire #4 had it where Boba Fett could have killed him but chose not to.

Hunters are packing shield generators, cortosis, and beskar. All of which stop lightsabers. Their armor auto-injects kolto. I could go on. Trooper, smugglers, and agents all have the same sort of tricks.

Order 66 showed that force users are vulnerable to non-force users if nothing else. Aayla Secura got distracted by a bird and was mowed down by her troopers for instance.

Legends has several cases of non-force users beating force users.

More importantly, that a force user could loose to a non-force user has been true in the Old Republic since Kotor came out.

Something that is missing is that by the time you get to Kotfe and Kotet, all classes are force users. The game also hints strongly that the Force has been using your character as it's main instrument to seek balance. Whichever character you are playing was guided and prepared to defeat Tenebrae by the Force. There also is an old idea in Star Wars that some people use the force and don't know they are doing it.

Ultimately it comes down to this how do a trooper, smuggler, agent, and bounty hunter fit in? The same way a bunch of Ewoks could defeat the Empire's best ground troops. The Force did it.

Guys did u know that even in books Vader was almost killed by smugglers couple of times? By traps, spaceships fights, powerful blasters etc. Non-force users are rly viable to kill force users, even powerful ones cus good equipment traps ships etc. There are many artifacts, materials etc that give lightsaber or/and force immunity. Also dont forget that our main character smuggler can power just dont use and dont train that, he can have only good developed instinct.

Seven years ago, this comment might have been worth making if you wanted to enter into a debate about this with those folks. Today? Not so much.