Hey Guys!

 

First of all let me introduce myself (It's not a show-off!), so you can see i'm not the random guy on the forum who plays for 2 months and thinks he knows everything and wants to tell everyone how things should be in the game

 

I have been playing the game since 2011 early access and my first character was a sniper. I played SWG before. I'm a PvPer and have played the most time on sniper in the last 10,5 years. I played engi 70% of the time 25%mm and 5% lethality (which is called virulence now) . I am simply in love with engi sniper since the beginning and i even run a small youtube channel where the main content is engi PvP. Until 3.0 i played all the classes but as the game gets easier\more simple\more dumb by every patch by now i kinda only play sniper because it has the highest skillcap or at least it had before 7.0, this was the last class to have fun as an experienced PvPer which is really sad, the game(mostly the combat system) is pretty dumb now… but thats another story.

 

This is just my opinion based on my experiences on engi sniper identity\style in the past.

So my thoughts, I think engi sniper kinda lost its identity, it became a burst monkey. Many people realise that and there are way too many engi snipers out there because of that, but it's not the role of engineering sniper!

 

the problems:

- explosive probe and overall burst is way too strong

- mobility is a bit too much

- survivability is too weak

- the abilities we have to manage is way too few (sniper lost the most abilities with 7.0)

- required skill to be good became much lower

 

Reminder about engi role in the game(pvp) since the game is out. It's a hybrid dmg, aoe class, whose main job is to control and manipulate the battlefield with slows, roots, cc (it's totally gone), knocks, aoe, and stun immunity. A hard to play unique spec which is not about bursting down enemy players.

 

My solutions to the problems brought in with 7.0 so engi can get back some of its identity.

 

- too much burst

 

Simply reduce the effect of some of its choices in the ability tree like the critical dmg bonuses, or even change them for something else which will make engi burst not this strong. I know it's not that easy and it's much more complex because if you change things that can change everything else like pve numbers too, but you got the data, you can adjust it properly the burst of engi is too powerful. This does not fit the engi identity. Generally TTK became too short in pvp for tactical gameplay, but thats another topic...

edit: reduce burst dosent mean reduce sustained dmg! i write this so the raiders that enjoy super engi dps and burst in operations dont missunderstand this and dont start to cry.

 

- mobility is a bit too much

 

It's one of the most mobile classes, roll shouldn't be touched, it became one with sniper since 2.0 and it's important for survivability which is pretty bad for now for sniper. BUT entrench speed bonus (seek cover) could be removed or nerfed.

 

Even though the best solution would be to:

- remove seek cover ability, change it to something else for example

- heal on roll (it would help on survival)

- give back evasion, and

- change back countermeasures as a speed boost ability so you could only have 1x6 sec speed boost in every 45 seconds instead of multiple speed boost while you have entrench.

 

This would solve so many problems.

 

It would nerf mobility, help survivability with the 10% heal on roll, increase active abilities we have to manage, and increase skill cap because we have an active, dedicated ability for speed boost. With this change engi sniper could get closer to its identity.

 

- survivability is too weak

 

Sniper is kinda the new PT. Sniper is a very proactive class you need to mitigate dmg, not to react to the enemy's action and heal back half of your hp, but lost too much defense in 7.0 and that small healing is missing because it can be outplayed easily with other classes with heal, mobility, or heavy dcds like madness inq, mercenary, rage\fury warriors, dps pts, conc oper... Anyone who plays sniper in 7.0 knows what I'm talking about. TTK is generally too short and sniper lost too many of its defenses. Didn't mention yet that if you are focused in arenas it's even worse than it was before. We need something to use when we re focused down by more players and lose dmg output and mobility, don't need much more defense just a little more…..

 

Don't forget Engi main role is to control the battlefield, for that you need more survivability and less burst. A new def ability could solve that like some dmg reduction or heal or longer evasion. It would also increase the skill cap and help the few abilities problems.

 

6.0. Engi Sniper was really close to what engi sniper should be imo

 

 

Sniper lost the most abilities with 7.0, sniper lost most of their complexity with 7.0, sniper lost most of their identity with 7.0 Why would you make a unique, hard, fun spec(engi) to a burst monkey? Why dont you make MM sniper a burst monkey if you really want to make one for sniper? Please give back engineering its unique and hard gameplay. This was the last spec that needed high skill level to perform well in PvP! Dont make veteran players leave the game, please!

 

My youtube channel so you can see im really a sniper main:

Edited May 10, 2023 by Faltun

You realize that not everyone cares about PvP, and people raid with Engineering too yes? I don't like Marksman nor Virulence, if you feel that engineering isn't fitting your bill for pvp, try a different spec.

You realise that it was a pvp related post? Why do you comment on a post which is not relevant to you?

 

Yes i raid on Engi too. I don't need to try different spec because i know all of them by heart, but like i said Engi is my main and my love since 2011 and it ll be until the last day of this game. This is the last class that needs skill in PvP and many players only play this game because of this last spec. There are a ton of other easy specs out there. They need to keep few harder specs for the hardcore players if they dont want them to leave, that's why i wrote this post to keep this spec playstyle.

 

The changes I mentioned dont really affect PvE performance except the burst reduction, but that's fair.. engi shouldn't be a burst spec even in PvE. I understand that you enjoy your burst and mobility in raids for engi and its easier for you to raid and perform well, but it's still an unfair advantage and dosent reflect the history of the spec in the game, since its not meant to be a burst spec.

 

Also bioware try to preserve the style of the specs in the game. They even highlighted that before the changes of 7.0.

It's clear they didn't mess up totally with engi but they miscalculated a few things that hurt the identity of engi. This post is feedback for them from an experienced swtor player.

 

As you may know it often happens after new content and they will try to balance\fix that in 7.1. like in every content before.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Faltun

As an Eng sniper main I would agree we definitely need back the heal with roll, as at the moment if I get dotted I just have no counter other than my heal stim or just getting out of dodge quick as possible. I don't play ranked mind you (tried once - got focused by 2 ops=wrecked then was abused by my team etc so never went back, who needs that kind of stress in a video game? o.0

 

However thanks for the post and here's hoping we get some love!

I can understand having the burst toned down somewhat, but maybe compensate with some sustained dps, to at least make us break even on overall dps, since Engi already isn't exactly amazing in PvE. (and it always suffers from relying on a ground targeted AoE dot).

 

But why the mobility nerf? Engi already lost Countermeasures speed, so I'd rather not lose Seek Cover as well, which has been a Sniper mobility tool for ages. Engineering is supposed to be the most mobile of the Sniper specs, with only 1 channel and relatively few casts. Let's keep it that way.

 

But why the mobility nerf? Engi already lost Countermeasures speed, so I'd rather not lose Seek Cover as well, which has been a Sniper mobility tool for ages. Engineering is supposed to be the most mobile of the Sniper specs, with only 1 channel and relatively few casts. Let's keep it that way.

 

If you read what I wrote, you'll see my suggestion is to get back dedicated countermeasure mobility boost and lose seek cover on that way and separate evasion and countermeasure. So it's a small mobility nerf and you don't need entrench for mobility but you can only use it once every 45 sec with a dedicated ability (countermeasure). Every class lost some mobility with 7.0. Sniper too but its still very mobile but survivability is bad compared to other classes so it would be a good trade-off.

 

So again:

 

Sniper has weak survivability: There are many situations where you can't do anything, because you dont have the tools. Demand is higher than supply.

 

It has so much mobility you can't even use it all effectively because you dont need to move that much. so it's a waste... Supply is higher than demand.

 

That's why this trade off would be good to gain some survivability and lose some mobility. it would be mobile enough without cover seek if it gets countermeasure and separated evasion and some more defense or heal so it would survive better.

 

So its an overall small buff for sniper, you lose something you dont need, because you have enough of it and you win something you need and you lack of it.

 

I already wrote that down in the post.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Faltun

But Countermeasures is also (a quite powerful) dcd. Tying that to movement doesn't gain you much of anything, since Countermeasures now provides the old Evasion effects. I'd much rather have that movement tied to Entrench and keep Countermeasures as a purely defensive ability.

But Countermeasures is also (a quite powerful) dcd. Tying that to movement doesn't gain you much of anything, since Countermeasures now provides the old Evasion effects. I'd much rather have that movement tied to Entrench and keep Countermeasures as a purely defensive ability.

 

Please read again and focus!

 

- remove seek cover

- give 10% heal on roll or some dcd

- give back evasion with its defense as it was before 7.0

- change back countermeasures as a speed boost ability so you could only have 1x6 sec speed boost in every 45

 

this is a 4 step change i explained it to details and wrote it down in 2 posts, this one is the 3rd one. pls pay attention.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Faltun

I forgot one thing from the post. Since the dot specs are strong in this patch (especially madness, lethality, hatred) and almost every spec have healing\tough def cds\dot cleanse. Sniper has absolutely no defense against internal and elemental dmg. Some passive dmg mitigation against dots or elemental internal dmg is needed or if we get back evasion it should cleanse dots.

 

Only def would be diversion but its not effective against dots. lethality opers and commandos can cleanse our root so they can easily get out of diversion. Sor and sin are very mobile they can get out easily as well

In regards to a speed boost I'd rather have my shiv back with the little boost in speed it gave us. Saved my bacon on numerous occasions back in the day.

In regards to a speed boost I'd rather have my shiv back with the little boost in speed it gave us. Saved my bacon on numerous occasions back in the day.

 

Agreed! That made sniper pvp even more skillfull, and fit sniper feeling pretty well. Too bad they want to make this game super dumb and remove all the complexity from the combat system. I would really love to get back that kind of speed boost even on higher cd. I wish i could go back in time and play sniper again when it had a lot of abilities and much harder gameplay.

I am sorry but the speed boost on seek cover needs to stay. Faltun you are not a good ranked sniper and seek cover is one of the most important utilities we have. I would go so far as to even trade my EM 75% boost for seek cover.

The burst is really easy to dodge, if you know how to play. Just pop a dcd and goodbye 80k crit ( that we have every 45-60s). Engi still needs to prepare a long time for a big burst. Probation Probe, EP, SS for the railgun stacks, plasma probe and then emp. Why wouldnt this be in the identitiy of engi, we literally have to build the burst up xD

I am sorry but the speed boost on seek cover needs to stay. Faltun you are not a good ranked sniper and seek cover is one of the most important utilities we have. I would go so far as to even trade my EM 75% boost for seek cover.

The burst is really easy to dodge, if you know how to play. Just pop a dcd and goodbye 80k crit ( that we have every 45-60s). Engi still needs to prepare a long time for a big burst. Probation Probe, EP, SS for the railgun stacks, plasma probe and then emp. Why wouldnt this be in the identitiy of engi, we literally have to build the burst up xD

 

I said to change it to something not to simply remove it, if you can read and understand some basic stuff you can see that in 3 posts in this thread. Engi didn't have this kind of burst before and did well. Now everyone plays engi because it's FOTM. I understand that you need this because you can play good on this spec with this OP **** but definitely this high burst only by explosive probe is not okay and doesn't fit engi identity. The build up otherwise yeah engi specific and that's okay. That big EP crit is not okay.

 

If you are that smart tell me pls why nobody played engi before 7.0? and why every sniper in the game is engi sniper now? because its FOTM and OP. I don't really care if you think that I'm not a good ranked player since every ranked player in this game believes he is the best and everyone else is bad, but that's far from reality. Also since i make videos most of the ranked players hate me, because "ohh another content creator who cant play...." Its a stupid mentality by unsuccesfull nerds in life who try to be succesfull in this game and put their overconfident hate **** in rankeds, but i understand them too, because for being humble and to have self criticism people need some intelligence which not everyone have. At least I know there are better ranked players than me and its okay respect to the ones who are not ****heads, but I could play engi pretty well in every content in the game when it was weak and when the game was much more complex, not like today's dumb demo version in 7.0. It seems like you are the one who prefers the easy way and overpowered engi changes.....

Edited May 5, 2022 by Faltun

When it comes to Sniper's you get people who play Engineering, but never that many who actively main an engineering sniper as their main class within the game....and there's a very important distinction between the two. especially when you are referring to PVP. Back when I was actively participating in pvp I could name just 2 others on my server who I knew that mained an engineering sniper...lol and oh man did they know how to play the spec.

 

In 4.0 sniper's were in a pretty good state, and then they ended up giving us all that healing in 5.0, so of course what happened...you get a lot more playing engineering and those who actually knew how to play engineering did even better, enter the posts that said sniper's were OP (this is right about when I quit the game).

 

Faltun will understand what I'm saying. For the record I've watched some of your engineering vids and it's nice to see someone playing Engineering, there's simply never been that many of us who has engineering as their main spec and main character.

 

It's quite one thing to play a spec when a spec is in it's prime, but quite something else entirely to play it when the masses believe it's....not so good (putting it politely), and even more something else for those few to be able to utilise the spec and do well with it.

 

Keep the spec alive Faltun

Hey guys !

Just so you know, everything I'm about to say won't apply to engi sniper specifically but I'll speak for sniper in general. Indeed since I mostly play mm and viru, I don't want to speak about engi which I don't know enough.

Also I think I'm pretty decent at the game with these specs. I started the game back at the launching, played for 3 years then stopped until last summer. I'm getting back at it and I chose sniper as a main. I do mainly unranked pvp and late game pve.

Hopping before 7.0 was pretty cool. In a few months I managed to get to know mm and viru quite good and I did good in pvp. So 7.0 was quite a drag.

MM and viru are better burst specs than engi so I won't discuss about the burst issue. But concerning the other things Faltun wrote, well I quite agree.

 

1.Heals

Loosing the few self heals first seemed to be the most annoying change. Indeed the roll's heal wasn't that high (which is normal) but it was really a detail that could make a big difference in a 1 on 1 situation or in group fights. The cover's heal was a bit more inconspicuous but in a situation where you had to run for your life and hide it could be life saving. Just as Faltun I consider that not dying in pvp is really a part of the system and it should be a challenge for everyone. It spices up the match should I say. Anyway right now, sniper is way too vulnerable to dot and internal damages. And except for mm, sniper's specs imply dots so when you try to escape, you won't come out of fight as easy as it should be. And since you don't got any heals left, you just basically wait in a corner with a dot waiting to die.

Also all other classes benefit of a heal whatever it's form. That's really a huge disadvanatge. Getting back to the former system would be ideal but if we talk about compromise, nerfing burst or mobility could be a good trade for some heal.

 

2.Defensive abilities

Sniper is a pretty complex class and that is due to defensive abilities' management. Currently, the principal ones are merged into one ability, which restraints its use and the fun you could have trying to manage these abilities.

Also you lose ballistic shield if you don't choose it in the ability tree. So just as heals, defensive abilities are pretty much nerfed up to a point where sniper looses a significant part of its durability (which never was the best in game).

 

3. Mobility

Tbh I really like sniper's mobility especially in wz. It's really one of the funniest side to the class in my point of view. And it's balanced, in a way, by the fact that most of the abilities need to cast, so you don't end up just always kiting and spamming spells (cough sorc cough...). However considering the fact that it would be great to get some heal and defensive abilities back, it seems fair that the sniper's mobility should be nerfed.

 

All in all, if sniper could get back some heal, principally, and a good defensive system, nerfing its burst or/and its mobility would be a fair trade.

Once again I don't think that I speak the absolute truth so feel free to respond, disagree and criticize if it's constructive.I really like swtor's sniper and I would love to see some changes, as the previous meta wasn't that bad tbh.

I main engi since I started playing the game(wich was at the end of 5.0) and I consider myself to be a pretty decent one.Its the hardest class/spec to master in game together with op concealment,but its sooooo rewarding when u get better at it. Ur videos have helped me a lot in the beginning and so did Bigg's.Keep doing what u do cos its very helpfull to the newcomers.

 

I disagree with a few topics tho.I wouldnt mind having a burst nerf if,as u said,we get more survivability,like, way more.I dont agree that sniper is that mobile.I mean,it is more mobile than it was in 6.0,but its not even close to be as mobile as sorcs,sins,maras,OPs and PTs. Its only more mobile than juggs and mercs right now.And I'm sure that it is to compensate the lack of suvivability they gave us. But even with better survivability,I think we should keep the mobility as it is now. We dont need all the dcds we had b4. All I wanted is a entrench with lower cd ( maybe something around 30-40secs),a 10% heal when we roll and something to counter dot dmg better. Maybe ur suggestion to make evasion(currently with countermeasures) cleanse dots is the way! I also disagree that it is easier to play engi now. I think its harder than it was in 6.0.Yes,we have way more burst power,but we lack a lot in survivability,which make it harder to endure certain fights,specially in solo ranked.

Edited August 17, 2022 by DougTheNoob

Ok so after comming back to ranked pvp after a year or so and after hundrets of ranked matches in pre-season as a sniper I feel like I'm able to contribute to the topic.

 

From what I see, there are two main areas that people complain about when it comes to sniper spec.

 

1. Big burst

Which in my opinion is something that we should maintain as this is ONLY contribution to the team that Sniper currently brings (except of diversion which is not that grate in many instances)

 

2. Lack of passive or active healing

Many ppl on this forum highlighted that in order to stay alive and regen your health you need to get out of combat. This with all these maras and ops in queue is mostly impossible and after holo you just sit there and wait to die if anything else.

 

From my experience in order to solve both of these problems is to add one simple tactical to sniper that would grant:

- passive healing

- heal on roll

- heal under balistic shield

 

Now, with this tactical in place you are actually achieving few things

- reduce burst in all spec by not having 50% increase in probe, UV tactical for viru and insta ambush on MM --> Burst dealt with

- you make Sniper a bit more stationary as you will actually be chosing balistic shield over holo (but you dont have to) so mobility is quite reduced

- you are adding 3 source of healing to Sniper so you increase survival by fair cost however, you do not impact sustained DPS as snipers will be able to compensate by just living longer.

 

In addition, what we would benefit is tactical that gives you stealth upon using holo so you are not chased instantly and killed, but that is just wishfull thinking.

 

My few cents.

PS: I do agree Slinger is in bad shape and can be globaled without any option

PS2: Our burst is only thing we bring to the table

PS3: Our mobility is needed as without it, we simply die to fast but with it we are able to kite untill enemy target is low or dead

PS4: Sniper is super dependand on team coposition and do not counter anything at the moment - we need a clear role but unfortunately any other class can do better what we are supposed to do

On 8/15/2022 at 10:41 PM, DougTheNoob said:

I main engi since I started playing the game(wich was at the end of 5.0) and I consider myself to be a pretty decent one.Its the hardest class/spec to master in game together with op concealment,but its sooooo rewarding when u get better at it. Ur videos have helped me a lot in the beginning and so did Bigg's.Keep doing what u do cos its very helpfull to the newcomers.

 

I disagree with a few topics tho.I wouldnt mind having a burst nerf if,as u said,we get more survivability,like, way more.I dont agree that sniper is that mobile.I mean,it is more mobile than it was in 6.0,but its not even close to be as mobile as sorcs,sins,maras,OPs and PTs. Its only more mobile than juggs and mercs right now.And I'm sure that it is to compensate the lack of suvivability they gave us. But even with better survivability,I think we should keep the mobility as it is now. We dont need all the dcds we had b4. All I wanted is a entrench with lower cd ( maybe something around 30-40secs),a 10% heal when we roll and something to counter dot dmg better. Maybe ur suggestion to make evasion(currently with countermeasures) cleanse dots is the way! I also disagree that it is easier to play engi now. I think its harder than it was in 6.0.Yes,we have way more burst power,but we lack a lot in survivability,which make it harder to endure certain fights,specially in solo ranked.

- You re right, we re not too mobile with the current defenses, my thoughts were to give something (burst or mobility) to get some def or healing. So my suggestion to lower burst and mobility is only to get some more survivability. You know i dont want engi to be the next madness sorcerer which has the best mobility best dmg best survivability best utility

- Its easier because everything is easier in 7.0. Because the toolkit evey class working with in 7.0 is less than what we had in the past. Reduced number of dcds, also not that effective dcds, removed stuns and CCs. These things means that you dont have to make that many critical decisions and dont have to pay attention to that many things. You can die easier cuz TTK is shorter, but that dosent mean the gameplay is harder, simply because there are no tools you can use so you dont even have to think about those things, i feel that my brain is just not working as much when playing and also its much more boring to play, sometimes i watch back my old video and wonder wow what i could do with some class especially sniper in 6.0 which i cant do anymore. Also because of the lower effective cds, like shorter eveasion or shroud for sins make the effective use of dcds less important. so if someone cant use their def cds well, its not a big problem cuz those abilities not that strong anyway and the ones that can use it superduper good dont rly get too big advantage. These things i wrote here are not only true for sniper but globally for every class. The good thing was before 7.0 generalisation wasnt this heavy, and there was harder to play class like sniper and easier like pt. Now a sniper maybe easier to kill mostly cuz of the short TTK (so maybe many players think its harder to play), but even on high skill player or the best sniper ever dosent have to make that many critical decisions and dosent have to pay attention to that many things, so actually your brain is on lower usage, so its easier. 
 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Faltun