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Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

JamagsAwesome's Avatar


JamagsAwesome
06.23.2017 , 07:40 PM | #351
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I'd have to go with the Wrath. Depending on how the Wrath is played they're not just a blunt instrument; they're extremely savvy , smart and discerning and either calculating or diplomatic, depending on choices. They've also taken up numerous rituals/trainings throughout their quests to strengthen their powers and understanding of the Force, so they're not just out there slashing their way through life (there are a number of times the Wrath has the option to learn from those they meet). The Dread Masters want the Wrath, not Nox - and the Wrath is the one who draws attention from both the Emperor and Marr.
That's fair, but at the end of Imperial Belsavis, Inquisitor is the only class who can actually stand up to the Dread Masters. I actually haven't finished that quest chain on any of my characters, so I have no idea how it ends for the Wrath, but that does put a pretty strong point in the Inquisitor's favor.

As for the rest, I was not terribly impressed with my Warrior, but she was pure light side, which might not make the most sense for the story, there were other things distracting me (voice acting, trying to keep characterization consistent in a story meant for an evil Sithy Sith, finding all the best ways to talk back to Darth Baras), and all the hype about Warrior story might have poisoned my opinion of it, so it's entirely possible I just wasn't paying enough attention. It felt like I was just given a list of people to kill, and then didn't actually kill some of them because I was playing as the sloppiest hit man (Hit woman? Is that a thing?) ever, because that's how the Light Side rolls.

I'll also say that any strategic ability the Inquisitor has is not going to count for much in a straight-up brawl. My Occlus-Inquisitor usually avoided getting his hands dirty if it got him what he wanted more easily, and would probably at least be sufficiently worried about my Warrior to try not to fight her directly (Maybe pull a Draahg and rush her ship while she's out*).

I suppose Darth Baras' capabilities seem fairly consistent with those of a Sith Sorcerer player character. So do Darth Thanaton's, but the Inquisitor needed Force Walk to beat him. Overall, I'd be willing to call a 1v1, no-holds-barred fight a toss-up with a slight edge to the Warrior. And, much like the Consular vs. Warrior topic from a little while ago, any strategic advantage the Inquisitor has is negated by the Warrior's ability to chop through pretty much anything short of another overpowered Force user. And still, when you come down to it with the 1v1, the Warrior is probably more skilled and the Inquisitor probably has more raw voltage to throw around. The actual degree is pretty much up to interpretation, and might even be affected by advanced class (an Assassin might have more saber skills and less raw power compared to a Sorcerer, and a Juggernaut might be able to survive zappings a Marauder couldn't, while the Marauder might be better equipped to overwhelm the Inquisitor at close range).

*Something I only just realized which I'll give the Warrior story total credit for: Draahg gets tougher between the two times you fight him. The first time, he's just curbstomped your entire crew. The second time, they actually fought him off. That's a clever way of showing how they've improved, and much less clumsy than the obligatory "Hey you made me better at fighting" companion conversation (which the Warrior story has anyway, but every class does it, so I assume it was just a requirement).
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OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
06.23.2017 , 11:05 PM | #352
It's kind of hard for me to conclude either any player character is explicitly supposed to stronger than any other in the game, but I do think The Wrath's overall list of vanquished enemies is more impressive.

Plus, I personally enjoyed the Warrior story much more, partially because that was the only one of the two Sith Classes that I felt I was able to roleplay a Sith Lord the way that I wanted.

deltascorchfixer's Avatar


deltascorchfixer
06.24.2017 , 03:40 PM | #353
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
I'm in Darth Imperius' camp, but do remember that the Wrath also takes out a Sith Lord on Nar Shaddaa.
And there again, Wrath kills a lord after years and years of training, whereas Nox killes a Darth and 2 lords anfer minimal, minimal training.

And correct me if I'm wrong, cos I haven't payed hawkeye attention to the SW storyline, but did the Wrath actually kill a darth before Baras?
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deltascorchfixer's Avatar


deltascorchfixer
06.24.2017 , 03:46 PM | #354
And another thing, regarding the ''Wrath is best cos the emperor chose him'' thing:

After Scourge defected, I do believe that it would make sence for the Emperor to not want his right hand to be the most powerful being in the galaxy, cos now that he knows that his Wrath can defect, then why not just strike him down on the spot?
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deltascorchfixer's Avatar


deltascorchfixer
06.24.2017 , 03:48 PM | #355
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
It's kind of hard for me to conclude either any player character is explicitly supposed to stronger than any other in the game, but I do think The Wrath's overall list of vanquished enemies is more impressive.

Plus, I personally enjoyed the Warrior story much more, partially because that was the only one of the two Sith Classes that I felt I was able to roleplay a Sith Lord the way that I wanted.
Ok, so perhaps Wrath's kill list was more impressive, but Nox did kill powerfull sith with (again) little training, whilst Wrath did kill his share of enemies, after a good decade of training
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Asmodesu's Avatar


Asmodesu
06.24.2017 , 11:12 PM | #356
They both start the same, none of that starts until Korriban, the warrior doesn't even know the sith code before it and dialogue is specific that the warrior has been summoned to Korriban ahead of schedule/early, they've been handed everything on a silver platter and still defeat/kill their Overseer with very little training on Korriban, that's the first proper Sith the warrior kills (or can kill, defeats a better word since he can be spared).
Sith Inquisitor has to be tough and deadly from the moment they step off the shuttle, already knows the sith code while in starting area (dialogue), what inquisitor thinks it means to be sith (dialogue again), and has to contest with numerous other acolytes unlike the sith warrior so in this regard the most experienced in the prologue.. is the sith inquisitor.

The warrior's whole shtick is being able to easily brush aside every challenge they face as if its nothing, raw strength in the force, and entire story is about them getting stronger both in that raw strength of Force and in their skill using it and starting to creep towards their potential.
Inquisitor has a tougher job doing this when it comes to combat (story type not mobs) but also still is victorious, has fleets under her command eventually and reaches their potential and height of power in the final story boss fight.

The Inquisitor needs the help from the ghosts' powers to defeat Thanaton, can't do it without them. Becomes dark council member with an entire sector of the empire in their control. Properly trained since their master wants the body, and such the strength with it also.
The warrior is a one-person army and fights their master 1 on 1 with no extra help and destroys him, still not the strongest they'll be. Chosen by the Emperor , out of every Sith in the Empire, to be the Wrath and therefore has the job to be able to defeat anything that stands in their way. Not bad for a sith Lord that had masters not bothering to train them much at all, it's ever specifies that the Overseer hand picked rather easy trials, and Baras held back when training that apprentice. Warrior has a deck stacked against them and still knocks it over easily.

This is all before I get into the story expansions of Makeb and SoR. It is painfully obvious that the Emperor is impressed only with his Wrath, out of all the classes. The Wrath still needs to be the strongest combatant the Emperor can find, even if his last defected. This to me seems to be the entire reason why the Wrath is never brought anywhere near the Emperor except for Voss when that particular host / voice needs to die anyway. This is the insurance the Emperor took, the Wrath still needs to be able to defeat anything in their way.

To pitch one or the other in my opinion depends completely on the situation. A fight like that can be believable written with either being the victor, but from story perspective and the dialogue, fights and such shown and said.. the Wrath I believe has the upper hand.
Wrath is beating down powerful jedi masters, sith lords, darths and dark council members the entire way through their story and even at the end of it the Wrath surprises people they defeat, people that had no idea they were so strong. Tells me the Wrath still hasn't reached their potential skill and strength, but is getting stronger over those 3 in-game years every step of the way. The Inquisitor seems to stable out at the end of the class story, in strength, so long as they still have their ghosts.

deltascorchfixer's Avatar


deltascorchfixer
06.26.2017 , 04:43 PM | #357
Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodesu View Post
They both start the same, none of that starts until Korriban, the warrior doesn't even know the sith code before it and dialogue is specific that the warrior has been summoned to Korriban ahead of schedule/early, they've been handed everything on a silver platter and still defeat/kill their Overseer with very little training on Korriban, that's the first proper Sith the warrior kills (or can kill, defeats a better word since he can be spared).
Sith Inquisitor has to be tough and deadly from the moment they step off the shuttle, already knows the sith code while in starting area (dialogue), what inquisitor thinks it means to be sith (dialogue again), and has to contest with numerous other acolytes unlike the sith warrior so in this regard the most experienced in the prologue.. is the sith inquisitor.

The warrior's whole shtick is being able to easily brush aside every challenge they face as if its nothing, raw strength in the force, and entire story is about them getting stronger both in that raw strength of Force and in their skill using it and starting to creep towards their potential.
Inquisitor has a tougher job doing this when it comes to combat (story type not mobs) but also still is victorious, has fleets under her command eventually and reaches their potential and height of power in the final story boss fight.

The Inquisitor needs the help from the ghosts' powers to defeat Thanaton, can't do it without them. Becomes dark council member with an entire sector of the empire in their control. Properly trained since their master wants the body, and such the strength with it also.
The warrior is a one-person army and fights their master 1 on 1 with no extra help and destroys him, still not the strongest they'll be. Chosen by the Emperor , out of every Sith in the Empire, to be the Wrath and therefore has the job to be able to defeat anything that stands in their way. Not bad for a sith Lord that had masters not bothering to train them much at all, it's ever specifies that the Overseer hand picked rather easy trials, and Baras held back when training that apprentice. Warrior has a deck stacked against them and still knocks it over easily.

This is all before I get into the story expansions of Makeb and SoR. It is painfully obvious that the Emperor is impressed only with his Wrath, out of all the classes. The Wrath still needs to be the strongest combatant the Emperor can find, even if his last defected. This to me seems to be the entire reason why the Wrath is never brought anywhere near the Emperor except for Voss when that particular host / voice needs to die anyway. This is the insurance the Emperor took, the Wrath still needs to be able to defeat anything in their way.

To pitch one or the other in my opinion depends completely on the situation. A fight like that can be believable written with either being the victor, but from story perspective and the dialogue, fights and such shown and said.. the Wrath I believe has the upper hand.
Wrath is beating down powerful jedi masters, sith lords, darths and dark council members the entire way through their story and even at the end of it the Wrath surprises people they defeat, people that had no idea they were so strong. Tells me the Wrath still hasn't reached their potential skill and strength, but is getting stronger over those 3 in-game years every step of the way. The Inquisitor seems to stable out at the end of the class story, in strength, so long as they still have their ghosts.
o.O

They start the same?!?


The SW has just been training for years on some academy, and the SI has been a slave, who for all we know has spent his life hitting rocks w a pickaxe!

and the fact that Wrath had the ''deck stacked against him''... seriously?

He was sent ahead to the academy before all of the other acolytes, so that he'd have a shot at becomeing Baras' apprentice, and he gets his own PERSONAL Overseer, who's 1 goal is to help him along w his studies, whilst Nox has an overseer who's responsible 4 what? a dozen acolytes? AND is trying his very best to make sure that Nox fails.

And ur saying that Nox can't do anythong w-out his ghosts?

Spoiler


and I know, nox does rely on his ghosts, but if any deck is stacked against anyone, it's Nox, not Wrath.

Spoiler
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MadDutchman's Avatar


MadDutchman
06.26.2017 , 10:01 PM | #358
Something to keep in mind with Nox and the ghosts, he/she only summons their power in the final battle at the very end when Thanaton unleashes his monster storm, which is a demonstration of power far beyond what Baras demonstrates. Heck, Baras actually runs dry just on that, whereas Thanaton gits brutally beaten into submission. if I was the warrior I'd almost feel cheated...

Up to that point, no ghosts. Also no ghosts when Nox drives back Thanaton on Corellia and forces him to flee. Nox was very nearly strong enough to defeat Thanaton alone, except Thanaton knew far more powerful rituals courtesy of his position and age.
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
06.27.2017 , 06:44 AM | #359
Thanthon was an very powerful sith even when he was the age of the SI he only got more powerful with time so no wonder the SI needed the ghosts he lacked about 20 more years of improving his power to defeated him.
So not really and argument about defeating him with ghosts considering the power of the opponent.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
06.27.2017 , 01:50 PM | #360
Quote: Originally Posted by MadDutchman View Post
Something to keep in mind with Nox and the ghosts, he/she only summons their power in the final battle at the very end when Thanaton unleashes his monster storm, which is a demonstration of power far beyond what Baras demonstrates. Heck, Baras actually runs dry just on that, whereas Thanaton gits brutally beaten into submission. if I was the warrior I'd almost feel cheated...

Up to that point, no ghosts. Also no ghosts when Nox drives back Thanaton on Corellia and forces him to flee. Nox was very nearly strong enough to defeat Thanaton alone, except Thanaton knew far more powerful rituals courtesy of his position and age.
I agree with you, though with the clarification that I think that Thanaton's ultimate lightning attack has some sort of heavy cost associated with it, like the life-draining of the Barsen'thor's shielding technique. Otherwise, Thanaton would have used it on Corellia, since fleeing the scene of the duel put him in an awful position politically; somehow, using said ultimate lightning attack would be worse than just begging the Dark Council to nullify the Kaggath.