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PVP isn't fun anymore


TmoneyTime

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I don't know if its just me, but ever since 7.0 dropped the fun factor in pvp has been getting increasingly lower and lower each week.

 

I think the games current state is the least overall enjoyment in pvp I have had in quite some time. Its almost like I'm playing expecting 6.0 but getting what ever mess this 7.0 pvp has come to be.

 

In 6.0 I never felt like I was loosing or wining any fight due to class alone, While in 7.0 it's rampant. If I play a fight perfectly, but the class on the other end is stronger its loosing more times then not. Maybe I'm just getting worse at the game. The feeling overall is one of a couple of dominate classes then everything else.

 

Maybe I'm just burnt out, but right now I can say for sure is PVP in general is no where near 6.0. 6.0 felt more alive, more skill driven, overall just a better experience.

 

We already know that were not getting the pvp revamp till some time next year. 7.1 still isn't out and were are half way though the year. Quiet frankly, I don't think Bioware has anything even built for the PVP Revamp. We can all see they are building the stuff that was supposed to be in 7.0 now. They flat out misrepresented what 7.0 was. I think for the first time I'm going to take a very long break.

 

TLDR: Game isn't fun anymore. Doesn't feel like time investment is worth it.

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I don't know if its just me, but ever since 7.0 dropped the fun factor in pvp has been getting increasingly lower and lower each week.

 

I think the games current state is the least overall enjoyment in pvp I have had in quite some time. Its almost like I'm playing expecting 6.0 but getting what ever mess this 7.0 pvp has come to be.

 

In 6.0 I never felt like I was loosing or wining any fight due to class alone, While in 7.0 it's rampant. If I play a fight perfectly, but the class on the other end is stronger its loosing more times then not. Maybe I'm just getting worse at the game. The feeling overall is one of a couple of dominate classes then everything else.

 

Maybe I'm just burnt out, but right now I can say for sure is PVP in general is no where near 6.0. 6.0 felt more alive, more skill driven, overall just a better experience.

 

We already know that were not getting the pvp revamp till some time next year. 7.1 still isn't out and were are half way though the year. Quiet frankly, I don't think Bioware has anything even built for the PVP Revamp. We can all see they are building the stuff that was supposed to be in 7.0 now. They flat out misrepresented what 7.0 was. I think for the first time I'm going to take a very long break.

 

TLDR: Game isn't fun anymore. Doesn't feel like time investment is worth it.

 

Thanks for sharing lol. You wana cry on my shoulder while you are at it?

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I don't know if its just me, but ever since 7.0 dropped the fun factor in pvp has been getting increasingly lower and lower each week.

 

I think the games current state is the least overall enjoyment in pvp I have had in quite some time. Its almost like I'm playing expecting 6.0 but getting what ever mess this 7.0 pvp has come to be.

 

In 6.0 I never felt like I was loosing or wining any fight due to class alone, While in 7.0 it's rampant. If I play a fight perfectly, but the class on the other end is stronger its loosing more times then not. Maybe I'm just getting worse at the game. The feeling overall is one of a couple of dominate classes then everything else.

 

Maybe I'm just burnt out, but right now I can say for sure is PVP in general is no where near 6.0. 6.0 felt more alive, more skill driven, overall just a better experience.

 

We already know that were not getting the pvp revamp till some time next year. 7.1 still isn't out and were are half way though the year. Quiet frankly, I don't think Bioware has anything even built for the PVP Revamp. We can all see they are building the stuff that was supposed to be in 7.0 now. They flat out misrepresented what 7.0 was. I think for the first time I'm going to take a very long break.

 

TLDR: Game isn't fun anymore. Doesn't feel like time investment is worth it.

 

You're not wrong with 7.0 being boring. It still makes me laugh that some genius thought taking a bunch of abilities away from players would make their game more fun and engaging.

 

Anyway, PvP is boring because the brain power is gone. We have next to no control over our stats. The potential for outplay is the sole province of a few classes, and the irony of the entire thing is people who sucked at PvP before 7.0 (because it had too many buttons) still suck at PvP now.

 

Also, I've seen you in PvP on your Marauders (we played a few matches together yesterday) and that's probably half the reason you're bored. To go from what Mara was in 6.0 to the severely reduced kit you have now is jarring. My second class on my Jugg is Marauder and I can't stomach playing it without Mad Dash and Force Choke. I've also noticed that some Mara mains haven't adjusted to the lack of obfuscate, CC, and Force Bound. You really can't go heads up with everything like you used to be able to in 6.0. Mara is definitely a hit and run class these days.

 

This isn't a dig or an insult to your abilities. I still think you're a solid player (and a f**king madlad for playing annihilation so often), but with everything that Bioware removed I'm not surprised you're bored.

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7.0 pvp is better than 6.0 imo. They used to call it stun wars for a reason. There is still a root/slow problem which is highlighted now because the stuns aren't as big of an issue as previously. 6.0 ttk was far too quick for my liking with the burst specs (sin/op) it was almost imperative u run with a tank/healer. Now you can queue solo and it's more forgiving. Less stun lock deaths too, it still happens but only when teams are far too stacked on one side. I do anticipate the ttk to decrease significantly in 7.1 when augs start to work again.

 

Btw I'm looking at this from a reg perspective because 4s have been broken for so long due to fotm stacking (plus other issues we dont need to get into). Been an issue for years and years.

 

Idk for me it's all peaks and valleys. I hated pvp back in 4.0 or whenever it was where mercs were running in packs and just netting you to death, as a melee pvper that was an all time low for me in the game. Add stuns ect yuck nasty, but some ppl enjoyed it. I took a break back then.

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I'm sure you're not alone but I don't think PVP was more fun and rewarded more skill in 6.0. Whatever cheese mechanics you believe is in 7.0 was multiplied in 6.0. Force Bound + Grit Teeth Jugg tanks were everywhere. Concealment operatives spamming rolls and ccs because they could. Lightning sorcs killing framerates with their chain lightning attacks. PTs had to be nerfed several times and were still obnoxious. There are more examples, but 6.0 could be unbearable at times.

 

I do feel the ability pruning in 7.0 is incomplete as I don't think Juggs should have their two CCs baseline among other things. I also do think the gap between certain classes is too large in 7.0, 7.1 is looking to change that though.

 

Regardless, I think 7.0 was a step in the right direction, less cheese mechanics like Force-Bound and less hyper-mobility abilities make positioning more important. More dedication to ability pruning and slightly more class balance will make 7.0 that much more enjoyable.

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It is time like these that I wish I could have joined Swtor much earlier. Joined late 6.x and my Mara and Jugg have everything in their arsenal to play. Now, its like playing with 1 leg cut off. Heck, I thought 6.x was cool but way earlier, around 2.x, you guys had stand switch (Shien into Soresu) on Warriors, that sounded awesome.
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It is time like these that I wish I could have joined Swtor much earlier. Joined late 6.x and my Mara and Jugg have everything in their arsenal to play. Now, its like playing with 1 leg cut off. Heck, I thought 6.x was cool but way earlier, around 2.x, you guys had stand switch (Shien into Soresu) on Warriors, that sounded awesome.

 

6.0 was the worst time for Jugg/Mara they were squishy af, the least viable I've ever seen the class in 10 years of swtor. They are fotm in 7.0.

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In 6.0 I never felt like I was loosing or wining any fight due to class alone, While in 7.0 it's rampant. If I play a fight perfectly, but the class on the other end is stronger its loosing more times then not. Maybe I'm just getting worse at the game. The feeling overall is one of a couple of dominate classes then everything else.

 

Maul spamming sins, grit teeth jugg skanks combined with 9 lives merc healers, rolling/reflecting/self healing/ burst on rotation ops. Add in some p2w amplifier system for fun. Yeah 6.X was perfect.

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It really comes down to whatever class u play and how strong they are. A lot of ppl just roll fotm and swap classes which adds to the issue when the classes are unbalanced. Close friend of mine has always been a jugg main, 6.0 made him quit swtor because the only viable jugg build was skank with grit teeth. I've played scoundrel dots since there was a skill tree which was like what 2.0? It's always been and underperforming class, im obviously loving 6.0 and 7.0. As I said 4.0 was terrible for me with all the ranged and Merc meta. Peaks and valleys.
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The problem is how far apart everything is and how dumbed down everything got in 7.0. There is 100% less skill expression in 7.0 then 6.0. The balance is 100% worse. Just watch Biggs video on the meta. Stealth meta is boring. Classes are so homogenized now its hard to tell the difference.

 

Stats don't work correctly. When the optimum group has 0 room for argument the game is stale. When the easiest classes to play are more rewarding then harder specs. (Just look at IO) (Sin tank vs PT tank difficulty level not even close) (Fury vs Carnage, Fury is face roll)

 

PT Tank

OP Heals

2 Fury Mars

Can't make an argument for anything else.

 

6.0 wasn't perfect, but compared to 7.0 its a much better game.

Edited by TmoneyTime
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A lot of players in PVP right now don't care about situational awareness, tactical knowledge or wining, They just want to get the games in needed to collect the rewards for dailies and weeklies.

 

I just started PVP,(not counting GSF) , and I do see this in both. not all teams are like that, but from my experience , it's what I play(Teamed) with the most, and that's not fun

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The problem is how far apart everything is and how dumbed down everything got in 7.0. There is 100% less skill expression in 7.0 then 6.0. The balance is 100% worse. Just watch Biggs video on the meta. Stealth meta is boring. Classes are so homogenized now its hard to tell the difference.

 

Stats don't work correctly. When the optimum group has 0 room for argument the game is stale. When the easiest classes to play are more rewarding then harder specs. (Just look at IO) (Sin tank vs PT tank difficulty level not even close) (Fury vs Carnage, Fury is face roll)

 

PT Tank

OP Heals

2 Fury Mars

Can't make an argument for anything else.

 

6.0 wasn't perfect, but compared to 7.0 its a much better game.

 

Again, I'll venture to say ur annoyed because it's happening to ur class. Lethality has been inferior to burst for about 8 out of the 10 years this game has existed, so the phenomena you mention here isn't specific to Mara/Sent or 7.0.

 

Also I've seen high level players get better results out of Sin tank than PT tank, harder learning curve but also pretty legit if u know wut ur doing. Ur tired of the game, I'd take a break if I were you. Go play other mmos or whatever and when u get the itch for swtor style mmo trinity pvp come back and see if you missed it. It's what I've done for years and always come back cuz there's not a game out there that can scratch that itch tbh, imo anyways.

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The problem is how far apart everything is and how dumbed down everything got in 7.0. There is 100% less skill expression in 7.0 then 6.0. The balance is 100% worse. Just watch Biggs video on the meta. Stealth meta is boring. Classes are so homogenized now its hard to tell the difference.

 

IKR, like how PT went from a three buttons spec to a ... three button spec. Clearly easy mode. And how you can actually move 3 steps now without being CCed. How dare they do that. Clearly you should be under stun lock for more than half the game, that's the way this game was meant to be played. And gear .... omg, how dare the peasants actually have the same stats LEETS like you have, right? Doesn't BW understand that people need to be forced to pay 250M credits in order to have optimal stats on one character? It's like, do they even understand what balance and fair competition is? And abilities ... making people choose abilities? Like from a tree? I mean what is this 2.X? Wasn't that the worst PvP experience in the history of games? Doesn't BW understand that classes need to be able to do absolutely everything, while surviving for a ridiculously long period of time and keep each other under CC... unless you're a sin, they had maul spam for 2 months so they need to die fast or run away. Clearly, you know what you are talking about.

 

And biggs, he like plays solo ranked every second of every day. So he clearly knows the meta. Up until 7.X, there were no meta classes. Every class was perfectly equal to each other and we were all happy and holding hands. In 6.X you would see assassin tanks everywhere, jugg dps, hatred assassins, IO mercs. It's not like the meta was skank juggs, ops, AP PTs and fury maras with force bound armor or anything. It was balanced. It was beautiful.

 

Stats don't work correctly. When the optimum group has 0 room for argument the game is stale. When the easiest classes to play are more rewarding then harder specs. (Just look at IO) (Sin tank vs PT tank difficulty level not even close) (Fury vs Carnage, Fury is face roll)

 

That's right stats don't work at all. When it says I have 35% chance to crit and a 65% crit bonus, my crit and crit bonus rate is actually ... ... ... 35% and 65%. BW, you need to step up and fix this right now!!!!

 

And you are soooooooo right about easier classes being more rewarding. I mean, clearly arsenal was always trash compared to IO in pvp. I remember in 6.X all those beautiful IO mercs running around in warzones and arenas, it was truly a sight to behold. You couldn't find an arsenal merc if you looked with a microscope. And PT omg, what does a sister need to do get find a AP/tactics, am I right? Nothing by pyro/plasmatech running around in 6.X. And sorc ... seriously, no one played lighting, it was all about madness. And of course we can't forget mara. All people played was annihilation in 6.X. No one played fury.

 

PT Tank

OP Heals

2 Fury Mars

Can't make an argument for anything else.

 

That's right, that's right. Even though for group ranked it is actually PT tank, 2 AP PTS and op heals, I totally agree with you. It's not like PT tank, 2 AP PTs and an op healer were the meta in 6.X or anything. You were actually able to use merc heals if you wanted. BW clearly failed in this.

 

6.0 wasn't perfect, but compared to 7.0 its a much better game.

 

Absolutely. P2W, being stunlocked all the time, immortal (literally) jugg skanks who did insane damage, lightning sorcs melting you while running away, teleporting and bubble stunning you, force bound armor making you blind after being mezzed, ops rolling effectively every 4 seconds and reflecting every 30s (but its ok, because snave told us if you 4v1 an op and coordinate stuns, they die fast ... balance), multiple predation making everyone move like they are in water and lets not forget the best part of PvP .... running hammer station over and over. That was clearly better.

Edited by sithBracer
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Biggs's video on the meta was him complaining about the existence of a meta, he didn't really go into specifics as to why the 7.0 meta in particular is bad for the game. Just stating that some classes are not viable in end-game PVP or PVE is not going to cut it because every meta in SWTOR featured a "if you are playing x class you are throwing" dynamic.

 

Furthermore, he calls 7.0 the Stealth Meta which really only applies to 4 DPS Solo Ranked games. Once tanks and/or heals are put into play, the meta shifts drastically in favor of PTs (both specs) at the expense of burst stealth classes like Fury Mara and Deception Sin. Even Vengeance Juggernaut becomes way more viable. This is evident in Group Ranked where most of the team comps are OP Heals, Sin/PT Tank and 2 PTs.

 

If anything, 7.0 didn't change the meta enough with regards to DPS classes as PTs and Leth ops are still the most viable DPS specs. 7.0 did vary the meta for tanks because PT tanks are probably the best tanking spec, but sin tanks cannot be overlooked as well. Merc and Op heals are in a good spot with the latter being slightly more competitive, though a lot of that has to deal with the fact that fights which involve the trinity comp usually lead to everyone stacking which helps Op heals.

Edited by Csjbo
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Furthermore, he calls 7.0 the Stealth Meta which really only applies to 4 DPS Solo Ranked games. Once tanks and/or heals are put into play, the meta shifts drastically in favor of PTs (both specs) at the expense of burst stealth classes like Fury Mara and Deception Sin. Even Vengeance Juggernaut becomes way more viable. This is evident in Group Ranked where most of the team comps are OP Heals, Sin/PT Tank and 2 PTs.

 

Right. And even in 4dps, having 4 stealths is not a sure thing. It depends on team composition and how teams play. There were so many solo ranked matches where stealth compositions got destroyed by compositions that had classes like juggs, pts, sorcs, mercs and depending on the arena even snipers.

 

For example, me (a sin), a jugg, a sorc and a PT (who we destroyed many times btw) were up against 2 maras and 2 ops (2 of them were golds, one was a silver and the other was pretty good as well) and we won pretty heavily. This was not a one time occurrence. I have won and lost on many teams who's composition wasn't meta vs a full meta composition (and yes, the players were very good, gold/silver level).

 

The point is, the meta is so much closer, that every class is at least viable and can win if they understand their role and play it well in 4dps. The only class that actually might be throwing now is sniper and it honestly depends on the arena. Tank/heals games are pretty much decided by who has more PTs/juggs and the op healer.

 

EDIT-don't misunderstand, it is still a stealth meta and teams with more maras and lethality ops (and in some cases sins) will win more than they lose. But the ratio is not insanely bad like it was in some of the previous seasons.

Edited by sithBracer
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The sentiment that pvp is boring "now" doesn't ring true for me. As has been pointed out by a lot of others comments, every single iteration of swtor pvp had had its fotm classes and metas that leave the game imbalanced.

 

I think maybe the truer statement would be, after years and years of neglect for the pvp game mode, 7.0 is the straw that broke the camels back for some ppl. And I could never argue with that.

 

I've unsubbed from swtor and taken many breaks from the game but I always come back because for a tab target mmo, there's no game that comes close to swtor pvp and how fun it is. Sometimes we just need a break.

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I don't know if its just me, but ever since 7.0 dropped the fun factor in pvp has been getting increasingly lower and lower each week.

 

I think the games current state is the least overall enjoyment in pvp I have had in quite some time. Its almost like I'm playing expecting 6.0 but getting what ever mess this 7.0 pvp has come to be.

 

In 6.0 I never felt like I was loosing or wining any fight due to class alone, While in 7.0 it's rampant. If I play a fight perfectly, but the class on the other end is stronger its loosing more times then not. Maybe I'm just getting worse at the game. The feeling overall is one of a couple of dominate classes then everything else.

 

Maybe I'm just burnt out, but right now I can say for sure is PVP in general is no where near 6.0. 6.0 felt more alive, more skill driven, overall just a better experience.

 

We already know that were not getting the pvp revamp till some time next year. 7.1 still isn't out and were are half way though the year. Quiet frankly, I don't think Bioware has anything even built for the PVP Revamp. We can all see they are building the stuff that was supposed to be in 7.0 now. They flat out misrepresented what 7.0 was. I think for the first time I'm going to take a very long break.

 

TLDR: Game isn't fun anymore. Doesn't feel like time investment is worth it.

 

Leave the game...or don't. Whatever.

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Tim othy......I have read several of your posts in the past and none have reached the depths in which you speak now. You have always been insightful at times, had respectable comments, but have never been dark.

 

Just click your heals together 3 times and say.....there is no place like home....there is no place like home!

Edited by Nickodemous
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After taking a 3-4 year break I can tell you that these EXACT same posts existed when I left and had repeated themselves many times over. If you do not count the very beginning of the game and maybe the horrible implementation of ranked 8v8, this game has remained exactly the same as far as PvP - in general.

 

1) PvPers, you are not important. Don't be mad at this, just understand it. The game gets its money from the CM. 90% of the development resources are spent on those people and helping those types of people to find their way back to the game/stay in the game. And trust me, you want it to be this way. Without that flow of money SWTOR would be gone long ago. That being said, we get thrown a bone from time to time.

 

2) The meta changes, but there is always a meta. Almost every class and spec have had its time in the sun. If following the power meta is important to you, then get good on every class. There are always ways around the meta as well. I play all 3 healers, I loathe the tedium of op healing but I understand its power (when its powerful) and would play it if that end game power gap was important to me.

 

3) Convenient Nostalgia - I'm reading peoples rose-colored reminiscent posts. "6.0 was better, we had a full tool kit" or similar. Everyone else also had a full toolkit to counter your full toolkit. Step back a sec, reducing ability bloat is necessary to help new people learn the game faster. You were new at some point, you didn't just start pro'd out of your mind like you are now. The effects of this will be slow but should eventually help population if they keep this structure. I hope the even turn it up some more. If TTK is lowered, it could be said that more coordination and skill are required to effectuate a kill, not less.

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