They come sort of close with Risha and Holiday both having the same VA, but at least those are in different classes. I don't think I'd like having two companions on the same character with the same VA, unless they were one of the really talented ones that can actually sound like multiple completely different people. Like, I love Jen Hale to death, but FemShep I mean F!Troop and Satele sound pretty similar, obvious when she's talking to herself during flashpoint intro/outros.

I mean she's a good actress (and beautiful too), but man she is awful as Jaesa Willsaam! I cannot stand listening to her. I don't know if its the lines or what, she just sounds so bored and unemotional no matter what's happening around her. I would be glad to trade her in for a guy, just for a chance at some reasonable depth of character voice.

Sorry, ranting over the voices in my earbuds done.

do those ESRB content rating apply to every country??, because i could never imagine SGR being considered as extremely sexual content in my country, at least, officially. I can see no difference in sex content between any kind of relationship.

ESRB is the ratings board for games in the US and Canada. Everybody else has their own system.

do those ESRB content rating apply to every country??, because i could never imagine SGR being considered as extremely sexual content in my country, at least, officially. I can see no difference in sex content between any kind of relationship.

SWTOR is rated M in Australia (and rightly so, in my opinion).

ESRB is the ratings board for games in the US and Canada. Everybody else has their own system.

oh, thanks for the aclaration , anyway, I hope thats not the reason that´s keepeng them,

SWTOR is rated M in Australia (and rightly so, in my opinion).

of course, I find the level of violence depicted in this game much more worrying than any suggestion of sex in romance cutscenes. Moreover, i see the the amount of male chauvinism and heterocentrism that can be perceived in many aspects of this game a lot more disturbing and damaging than any hint of sex. Anyway, sorry, i don't want to go off toppic.

I have a hard time understanding why this isn't already implemented. I wouldn't use the same sex relationships myself, but it irks me that in this day and age, the possiblity isn't even available. It's just so unbelievably backwards.

The game wouldn't be hindered by it's implementation, people who wouldn't want it, wouldn't use it and frankly, if anyone does have a problem with it, they can go **** themselves. This is the 21st century and we're supposed to be so far beyond this ludicrous, nonsensical, biblical, desert mentatality.

Besides, Theran Cedrax is clearly in the closet. He's more camp than a row of pink tents. Give the female characters and players a break from him. An out of the closet Cedrax, might be less of a douche.

Look at the bottom of this page, dude. It's not E. It's T. And no, it wouldn't. Same sex matters are treated by the ESRB (arguably) exactly the same as opposite sex matters.

 

And even if it did, so what? There's explicit torture in this game. Forget guys snogging, this game already has content very dubious to the Teen rating that the game has.

Easiest way to find out...grabs copy of Sims Medieval...rated Teen...has SGRs that are even more sexual than TOR....nope, it'll still be rated Teen.

Just so long as they never use Rachael Leigh Cook as a VA again, I'll be happy.

 

I mean she's a good actress (and beautiful too), but man she is awful as Jaesa Willsaam! I cannot stand listening to her. I don't know if its the lines or what, she just sounds so bored and unemotional no matter what's happening around her. I would be glad to trade her in for a guy, just for a chance at some reasonable depth of character voice.

 

Sorry, ranting over the voices in my earbuds done.

Given the voices I've heard her do on Robot Chicken...I'd say it's more the character. Remember, Jaesa's suppose to be a former Jedi.

I didn't have much trouble listening to her. It's just....well, I think Scorpio's got such a sexy voice.

I think I know why I have such trouble playing Republic, though. The Republic accent is American, basically, and it seems so bland to me.

Though....hm....a nice Scottish accent would be wonderful, I think.

I have a hard time understanding why this isn't already implemented. I wouldn't use the same sex relationships myself, but it irks me that in this day and age, the possiblity isn't even available. It's just so unbelievably backwards.

 

The game wouldn't be hindered by it's implementation, people who wouldn't want it, wouldn't use it and frankly, if anyone does have a problem with it, they can go **** themselves. This is the 21st century and we're supposed to be so far beyond this ludicrous, nonsensical, biblical, desert mentatality.

 

Besides, Theran Cedrax is clearly in the closet. He's more camp than a row of pink tents. Give the female characters and players a break from him. An out of the closet Cedrax, might be less of a douche.

Given that The Sims all have SGR's in them...I was a bit surprised that they didn't get into TOR too.

One of the things we learned last March is that SGRs were planned for at least as early as the companion characters were taking shape. It was intended for inclusion but in terms of production time and resources (read money) they had to put some things on hold. Wisely or unwisely (and I think it has caused no end of trouble, myself) they opted to delay SGRs.

Apparantly, writing has a very long lead time, and that is the larger moeity of the wait. We were told in March that BW would rather take the time it takes to deliver high quality content written specifically for SGRs than just swap out pronouns or otherwise recycle OGRs, but even given this extra work we could still expect this content this year.

I don't like the decision to launch with only OGR content any more than the rest of you. I think it is deeply unfortunate and sends a message at variance from what BioWare hoped to with its decision to include SGRs which ought to be where the focus is. Inclusiveness is a positive thing. It is expected by players in this day and age, and BW and EA know that.

Not to have it in yet, however much sense it made as a production decision, has proven to be a PR gaffe that I feel they have never figured out how to address, and a lockdown on any information on the pending content has not really helped in this regards. I understand wanting to keep some details under wraps, but that ought not to preclude a.) an apology for the unfortunate fact that the game was released in a pointedly non-inclusive state, b.) a commitment to inclusiveness in game content and player community and c.) assurance that this remains in the plans for implementation and is in fact being worked on.

As an aside, I was on Nar Shaddaa last night. The Cartel bookies are taking bets on whether we get a new thread or a status update sooner.

Not to have it in yet, however much sense it made as a production decision, has proven to be a PR gaffe that I feel they have never figured out how to address, and a lockdown on any information on the pending content has not really helped in this regards. I understand wanting to keep some details under wraps, but that ought not to preclude a.) an apology for the unfortunate fact that the game was released in a pointedly non-inclusive state, b.) a commitment to inclusiveness in game content and player community and c.) assurance that this remains in the plans for implementation and is in fact being worked on.

That is precisely why I believe that we need an outside interest into this subject. Bioware aren't answering their players for whatever actual or made up reason and it's really disheartening, but I hope that they would talk to a media outlet about it. It would be one of their few chances for positive media coverage - which is something that they really need at the moment - and it would have the chance to get some of our questions addressed.

What I would really like to see is Bioware's take on how their game is presented and how that presentation has been taken to be exclusive, heterosexist and undesirable in an industry which should be moving beyond its misogynistic, racist and homophobic background.

There is a comic strip I love to read called Girls With Slingshots.

I love GWS! It's nice to have the regular website back up and running again, too.

The author has admitted to "winging it" when it comes to writing sexuality, but I think the characters are written well enough that it doesn't matter much.

My BH, who is my first 50, ignores Skadge completely. Well, him and Gault. I don't like Gault much. It's why I love the idea of being able to exchange companions.

I'm in the same boat there. Well, I'm actually fine with Gault, but I tend to disappoint him a lot with my lack of business sense (and my willingness to endanger myself).

Like, I love Jen Hale to death, but FemShep I mean F!Troop and Satele sound pretty similar, obvious when she's talking to herself during flashpoint intro/outros.

Really? Replaying the original KotOR games, I thought Bastila sounded so very different from the FemShep voice I'm used to hearing these days, so I'd figured the same would be true for Satele. Well, I guess I'll find out eventually...

That is precisely why I believe that we need an outside interest into this subject. Bioware aren't answering their players for whatever actual or made up reason and it's really disheartening, but I hope that they would talk to a media outlet about it. It would be one of their few chances for positive media coverage - which is something that they really need at the moment - and it would have the chance to get some of our questions addressed.

Time to approach Erik Kain at Forbes, maybe?

His articles and opinion pieces regarding the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy were quite good.

The ESRB ratings are fairly complicated, and I have issues with the way they deal with same sex content. I really doubt TOR will get a ratings change though. The short version is that the ESRB ratings are based on categories of content with the option of additional arbitrary descriptors of "Mild" and "Extreme" added based on a panels opinion of the presentation of content. In theory if a same sex kiss or completely non-explicit homosexual relationship are present in an otherwise K rated game it should just be tagged as having "Extreme Sexual Themes." Which doesn't really mean anything, but is meant to give fair warning that there is content about sexuality some people may find objectionable. In practice the ESRB has hardly ever used the Extreme Sexual Themes tag and tend to kick same sex content up to the harsher category of Mild Sexual Content (which is a warning that automatically sets the rating of a game as T or M).

 

Here is a better question, even if they did change the rating would it matter? Studies show the vast majority of MMO players are college aged, with the trend tending towards players being older than that rather than younger. Parents don't like kids, especially teenagers, playing MMOs. Why should EA devote that much worry to a group that doesn't play the game anyway?

If you are referring to the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series or Jade Empire as opposed to KotOR and KotOR II, then you forgot to take into account that the former games were MUCH more violent and loaded with blood and gore than the KotOR games. The ESRB reps have stated that SGRs in games are treated the same as OGRs and have no bearing on the rating the game is given.

For the record, I used to work in video game sales. We had it drilled into our heads how the ESRB works.

I love GWS! It's nice to have the regular website back up and running again, too.

 

The author has admitted to "winging it" when it comes to writing sexuality, but I think the characters are written well enough that it doesn't matter much.

Writing a "sexuality" is in a interesting concept to me. I have a gay couple that I write about regularly (I'm hetero-ish woman myself), but since I have no gay friends in real life I've never really had any feedback on how realistic they are. I don't like to use stereotypes at all, I find the idea distasteful, but I still don't know if they're... good? representations. To be honest sometimes I feel like my character's personalities are largely agender and incidental to their actual sex.

As to contacting Mr. Kain at Forbes, I think it might be a good idea to just approach him with the information, but I don't really have any *hint Uluain hint*

One of the things we learned last March is that SGRs were planned for at least as early as the companion characters were taking shape. It was intended for inclusion but in terms of production time and resources (read money) they had to put some things on hold. Wisely or unwisely (and I think it has caused no end of trouble, myself) they opted to delay SGRs.

 

Apparantly, writing has a very long lead time, and that is the larger moeity of the wait. We were told in March that BW would rather take the time it takes to deliver high quality content written specifically for SGRs than just swap out pronouns or otherwise recycle OGRs, but even given this extra work we could still expect this content this year.

 

I don't like the decision to launch with only OGR content any more than the rest of you. I think it is deeply unfortunate and sends a message at variance from what BioWare hoped to with its decision to include SGRs which ought to be where the focus is. Inclusiveness is a positive thing. It is expected by players in this day and age, and BW and EA know that.

 

Not to have it in yet, however much sense it made as a production decision, has proven to be a PR gaffe that I feel they have never figured out how to address, and a lockdown on any information on the pending content has not really helped in this regards. I understand wanting to keep some details under wraps, but that ought not to preclude a.) an apology for the unfortunate fact that the game was released in a pointedly non-inclusive state, b.) a commitment to inclusiveness in game content and player community and c.) assurance that this remains in the plans for implementation and is in fact being worked on.

 

As an aside, I was on Nar Shaddaa last night. The Cartel bookies are taking bets on whether we get a new thread or a status update sooner.

Really?? Come on, how many games out there today are released with no SGR content. They gave the reason why it wasn't in and now you want an apology?? Wow. They already said it was going to be in game so point B is mute and C, yea they could give out details but SGR are not the only things ignored by BW that need to be fixed/ implemented in the game and no I dont mean party jawas which are just stupid.

Really?? Come on, how many games out there today are released with no SGR content.

Too many, but EA and BioWare both know better. They have gotten this right in the past. That is what makes this gaffe a gaffe.

SGR are not the only things ignored by BW that need to be fixed/ implemented in the game.

We hear this a lot. So let me use small words and say what we always say. No one says SGR is the only fix needed. No one says other things matter less. Other content is coming. It is coming sooner. That is fine. We want that, too.

But that does not change the reality that this content, which is integral to what we expect from a BioWare title, is absent by the decision of the production team. That is what we would like to see addressed, and I don't think that is unreasonable. Apologies are free.

Too many, but EA and BioWare both know better. They have gotten this right in the past. That is what makes this gaffe a gaffe.

 

 

 

We hear this a lot. So let me use small words and say what we always say. No one says SGR is the only fix needed. No one says other things matter less. Other content is coming. It is coming sooner. That is fine. We want that, too.

 

But that does not change the reality that this content, which is integral to what we expect from a BioWare title, is absent by the decision of the production team. That is what we would like to see addressed, and I don't think that is unreasonable. Apologies are free.

Don't patronize me, I know that SGR is one of the things that needs to fixed/included. Just because you want something, something that they have promised would be in doesn't mean they need to apologize to you or that other games should include it. They left out a lot of things at launch that should have been in from the get go, you are not a special case. While they should keep your bunch and everyone else more updated on things that need to fixed/put in ect you were given a promise, That is more then those who wish say PvP fixed or better end game content. They have no reason to apologize to you.

Who is patronising whom? How many issues -- even issues with no immediate fix possible, like this one -- have been addressed in the Community Q&A or in posts found on the Developer Tracker? The "promise" is a year old, now, and was made to a pre-launch audience by a Community Manager who is no longer with the company.

By making the production decision it made, BioWare effectively stated that while they value an inclusive player community, some players are less important than others. Nothing makes us more important. I have never contended that and am making it explicit now. But neither should we expect to be less so. That is where I take exception.

I love GWS! It's nice to have the regular website back up and running again, too.

 

The author has admitted to "winging it" when it comes to writing sexuality, but I think the characters are written well enough that it doesn't matter much.

I am so glad that GWS is back up and running. I think a lot of people- even lesbians and gays- tend to treat LGBT characters as a bit 'different' than straight characters and it tends to annoy me. Personally, I've found that we are just like everyone else. It goes back to the lines from Shakespeare:

"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you ***** us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we shall resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction."

There are the good among us, and the evil. There are the strong and the weak. We are, though, all 'human' (for a given measure of human).

Danielle got it right, though. Her characters are very human, and being human means that we sometimes play up to the stereotype. I have a reputation as a man-hater. Part of that comes from the androphobia, but there's also a certain expectation that, as a woman, I should hate men. I've damped down the stereotypical behaviors, but still, we all conform to society in some form or another even if we conform to a subset of the culture.

The bulk of the anti-LGBT statements out there are based on stereotypes that have existed for ages, and are usually attached to wealth as well. In a lot of ways, the view of gay men as limp-wristed sex maniacs comes from the fact that, at one time, those were the most visible given that they had the wealth to be able to openly appear to be gay. The reality, of course, is much different.

I have spent WAY too much time writing on my blog...I seem to have become a know-it-all.

Too many, but EA and BioWare both know better. They have gotten this right in the past. That is what makes this gaffe a gaffe.

I, certainly, understand that. I mean, come on...SGRs have been part of The Sims since Sims 1 Hot Date. Heck, Sims 3 has full on same-sex marriage. So, yeah, I was a little surprised that it wasn't in the game to begin with.

I have spent WAY too much time writing on my blog...I seem to have become a know-it-all.

Well, for what it's worth, I enjoy reading your posts here. Know-it-all or not.

Well, for what it's worth, I enjoy reading your posts here. Know-it-all or not.

Thank you

After a several month absence, I've just reactivated my account tonight. It's been really nice to read this thread and see is still going. That people are still passionate about SGRs even today. That kind of enthusiasm is contagious and awesome to see!

I left after writing the FAQ mainly due to burn out from mmos in general. While I had little interest in raiding and far more interest in the story, other guildmates of mine starting pushing myself and my husband(the GM) to raid. I wasn't interested and my hubby didn't have the time since both of us are on the overnight shift. We had no problem passing along leadership to them. We ended up moving and doing a much-needed purge of our belongings in the process. For those of you that have moved out of a place that you've lived in for longer than about 5 yrs, I think you know what I mean. The last move we didn't get a chance to sort through our stuff prior to moving in, so it was really closer to 8 yrs of accumulated crap. Not much of that got saved. It was a long hot summer(still is, worst in state history), but worth it.

I've lurked and I know not a lot has changed in the level of current information about SGRs. I saw the last gold answer was on 9/2 and it was certainly vague. However, I still had fun with the people in here and had fun rp'ing in the game. I've decided to start up a new character, transfer my main Sith and Jedi over and try the stories again. Perhaps by Christmas SGRs are going to be there. I was pretty sad to find out that my birthday is going to come and go in a week and a 1/2 and no SGRs.

I'm still hopeful, but I will admit that some of that feeling of being burned by EA isn't gone. I do know that I'm going to have some fun while I'm around for the next 3 months. My husband reactivated as well, so my Sith and his BH shall rule the galaxy once more.

I will say this: Everything I said in my FAQ I stand by and it may get updated here soon. I have the document as it is seen on my link saved onto my computer. If you are curious about my FAQ, please check out the link in my signature.

To some of the old faces, it's good to see you guys around! To the new ones and the supporters, nice to meet ya! To the detractors, thanks for keeping things civil and interesting. It's good to see you guys too.

As a final note, I'd like to thank the game Nier and the VA Laura Bailey(Kira!) for cementing my desire to come back to ToR. While her character in Nier is very different from Kira, the voice still made me go, "Okay, I give!"