First, sorry if this has been answered before now, hard to effectively parse through 34 pages of posts. For the Disintegration change, would that life steal be in addition to what Disintegration already does? IE: Crit increase for Lightning Strike and Force Leach as well as increasing periodic damage by 15%.

 

Secondly, for the Force Horrors change, I'm not sure what Force Horrors is... Is that a sage ability? It's either pretty good if it's increasing the Disintegration damage boost from 15% to 20% or slightly good if it's increasing the execute range damage increase.

 

All that said, while I understand the direction, Madness was underperforming as a DPS spec while their tac was broken. I realize that they have quite a bit more survivability in their kit than most classes, but that means nothing when DPS checks are as steep as they are in PVE content. I'm afraid that this is just going to push more of us (Me) away from sorc entirely into playing Viru which has much more raid utility and does more damage despite having the complexity of a four-piece puzzle.

 

My thoughts are that I think this change is going in the very wrong direction. If the worry is for their efficacy in PVP, giving FL lifesteal is only going to further annoy the PVP crowd while not really doing anything for the PVE crowd, meanwhile the nerfs to the damage are just going to lead to folks quitting the sorc entirely, or swapping to Ling which is getting even steeper nerfs here. I'm honestly not a fan of that mentality as 7.0 was the first time in a long, long time that Madness was playable in PVE content, and Ling was also doing well for itself, but I felt they were both within reason, if anything Madness was underperforming for its lack of practical ability to get the raid buff, as well as have any utility beyond being something the healers don't have to heal.

 

I'd be interested in hearing the dev team's mentality on this. Is it the expectation that sorc be the weakest (or near to it, hard to tell) of the ranged DPS classes, and if so why? Beyond that, even if it was slated to be the weakest by some metric I don't know, does it have to be the weakest by such a degree as to turn off serious players from using the class?

Force horrors is a hidden passive that is linked to disintigration it is the part of disintigration that holds the dot damage incease, so bye logic you can asume you lose the crit chance and get the healing in return, wich is dumb as the spec is already under preforming and removing the crit from our main hitter would be stupit, unless they you know do what they should have done ages ago and that is buff the damage from afliction and creeping terror bye about 15-25 % and make force lightning be able to be casted while moving so the spec actualy functions outside of like 3 fights in the entire game

Force horrors is a hidden passive that is linked to disintigration it is the part of disintigration that holds the dot damage incease, so bye logic you can asume you lose the crit chance and get the healing in return, wich is dumb as the spec is already under preforming and removing the crit from our main hitter would be stupit, unless they you know do what they should have done ages ago and that is buff the damage from afliction and creeping terror bye about 15-25 % and make force lightning be able to be casted while moving so the spec actualy functions outside of like 3 fights in the entire game

Cool, thanks for the reply. (Didn't mean to steer this thread back onto topic and stop the 3 or 4 people fighting about marauders.)

That sounds really dumb, if I'm being honest. It just seems fully disconnected. From what I can tell, PVPers hate Madness because of its self healing and raiders hate it because it doesn't bring a lot in the way of utility or DPS when compared to sniper. There just seems to be some arbitrary metric used to determine that sorcs should do less damage than snipers.

The issue I have with that line of reasoning is exclusively from a PVE mindset, but as I couldn't care less about PVP, that's the only mindset I have. If you give a DPS off-heals and nerf their DPS by 10% under a class without off-heals, PVE players will just play the higher DPS option. There's no strat that employs "And during this phase, our DPS sorcs will spam dark heal at the tank, and we'll win for sure" so I don't know why so much value is ascribed to their off-heals.

In summation, I think this change is only going to make more people angry. It increases PVP viability through off-healing, and decreases PVE viability by a damage nerf when they weren't overperforming. Like, seriously, who in the PVE crowd was complaining about Madness DPS? Near as I can tell I'm the only serious player that runs the spec regularly, so did I say something to piss off the devs? lol.

Either way, thanks for the response.

 

Lightning / Telekinesis

• Reverberating Force - Critical hit damage bonus has been reduced to 12% down from 15%.
  
• Thundering Blast - Second arc of damage deals 20% of Turbulence's damage down from 25%.
  
• Storm watch damage decreased by 4%
  
• Halted Offensive cast time increased from 2.5 seconds to 3.0 seconds. Alacrity still affects cast time.
  
• Decrease Halted Offensive damage by 15%.
  
• Convection - Thundering Blast grants Reserved Darkness, making Dark Heal an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.
  

-Chris

Don't nerf lightning! Yes we hate how turret it is, but it's already subpar, if anything, buff it! Don't nerf subpar specs! If anything nerf the OP ones like mara and buff the garbage ones like arsenal merc!

Cool, thanks for the reply. (Didn't mean to steer this thread back onto topic and stop the 3 or 4 people fighting about marauders.)

 

That sounds really dumb, if I'm being honest. It just seems fully disconnected. From what I can tell, PVPers hate Madness because of its self healing and raiders hate it because it doesn't bring a lot in the way of utility or DPS when compared to sniper. There just seems to be some arbitrary metric used to determine that sorcs should do less damage than snipers.

 

The issue I have with that line of reasoning is exclusively from a PVE mindset, but as I couldn't care less about PVP, that's the only mindset I have. If you give a DPS off-heals and nerf their DPS by 10% under a class without off-heals, PVE players will just play the higher DPS option. There's no strat that employs "And during this phase, our DPS sorcs will spam dark heal at the tank, and we'll win for sure" so I don't know why so much value is ascribed to their off-heals.

 

In summation, I think this change is only going to make more people angry. It increases PVP viability through off-healing, and decreases PVE viability by a damage nerf when they weren't overperforming. Like, seriously, who in the PVE crowd was complaining about Madness DPS? Near as I can tell I'm the only serious player that runs the spec regularly, so did I say something to piss off the devs? lol.

 

Either way, thanks for the response.

np and you are not the only one altho i'm realy struggling to get to play it myself as people just prefer you play ling in pve and it is borderline unviable, the worst part is that the current changes to madness will push it even more into a glass cannon turret spec as the pleague master rotation will prolly become mandetory to do viable numbers

this means playing without 25 % or 15% dr without an agro drop and no raid buff , and yet this will do less damage then practicly every other spec in the game that gets All of the above for free and in some cases also out self heal madness,

after these chages we will once again be left with a spec with **** single target mehh aoe **** defensives No utility

No mobility and a exremely clunky and risky rotation that gets insanely punished even more so then ANHI

and this all while in pvp the spec will still be **** aside from in random warzones where sorcs will always do okay if not focused

they are still a meme in ranked even now, and this is all asuming they don't acedently remove the dot damage passive since is linked

if that happens you get a spec that is competing with tanks for dps instead of the other dps,

and this all for a spec that has NEVER been in the top 5 specs in any form of content since closed fking alpha

(BTW sorc is still the only light armor spec)

Please don't implement this tactical. As someone who PvPs, we do not need more slows in the game, especially a AOE 50% slow that lasts 12 seconds. Madness needs a proper AOE tactical, but I would rather see no tactical than this tactical. I know these are PvE oriented changes, but this tactical will significantly decrease the quality of play in PvP.

No kidding. Frankly I don't get this tactical for Madness. Ok it will be useful for us in certain FPs and Heroics and in SOME trash mob areas in OPS but it seems to be geared mainly at Unranked PvP scenarios and pretty useless in PvE. Since that's the case if implemented what you're going to find dominating objective areas are going to be groups consisting of Madness Sorc, Engineering Sniper, and Vengeance Jugg just wreaking AoE havoc. Voidstar doors come immediately to mind.

As far as the other DPS nerfs? Don't do it. End of story.

Like others have already pointed out NONE of these changes are effecting "overperforming" specs. For example LT Sorcs do NOT need a longer cast time on Halted Offense if anything it's hard cast should be reduced so that change is odd and quite backwards. The buffs on Heals is the right direction. Same with the other buffs to DPS classes.

The real question here is why are we focusing on nerfing "ok" DPS classes at all instead of boosting the UNDER performing classes in the first place? Sure there are some classes "overperforming" if you compare them to all the OTHER classes but it could be argued easily that 0 classes are "overperforming" its just the others are underperforming at such lengths it looks like they are "overperforming" when in fact their performance is closer to "as intended".

So PLEASE change/flip your general focus/attitudes here about balance changes towards lifting classes/specs UP with buffs rather than bringing classes/specs DOWN with nerfs. It would be much appreciated and go a LONG way with community health and attitude toward 7.x

The community would be much happier if every single class and spec could perform as well as the top parsing ones. We get unhappy when top performing classes/specs get nerfed. We get even MORE unhappy when mid performing specs get nerfed. Pretty simple really. Any proposed nerfs to classes at this juncture is certainly not what can be described as "Balance Changes"...

Hello everyone,

 

Lightning / Telekinesis

• Reverberating Force - Critical hit damage bonus has been reduced to 12% down from 15%.
  
• Thundering Blast - Second arc of damage deals 20% of Turbulence's damage down from 25%.
  
• Storm watch damage decreased by 4%
  
• Halted Offensive cast time increased from 2.5 seconds to 3.0 seconds. Alacrity still affects cast time.
  
• Decrease Halted Offensive damage by 15%.
  
• Convection - Thundering Blast grants Reserved Darkness, making Dark Heal an instant cast and increasing its healing by 30%. Stacks up to 2 times.
  

 

WHY? We already parse so low on both ops and dummies. I do not understand why sorcs need to be nerfed when they are already some of the worst DPS in the game. I don't get how this helps narrow the gap between DPS disparities when sorcs are at the bottom. Meanwhile Juggs are some of the best DPS and receive no nerf? I'm sorry, but where are Sorcs overperforming? Maybe on bosses where melee is inadvisable, but that's just because people are forced to play rDPS, not because rDPS is better on average. Please don't do this. If I am misinformed and there is somewhere where sorcs are just absolutely busted in PvE let me know. If it's PvP, then nerf stuff in PvP. Make us choose between a bubble and phase walk to reduce survivability in PvP. People don't complain about sorcs in pvp because of their numbers. They complain cuz they are slippery, but once they can't slip away, their dead instantly.

WHY? We already parse so low on both ops and dummies. I do not understand why sorcs need to be nerfed when they are already some of the worst DPS in the game. I don't get how this helps narrow the gap between DPS disparities when sorcs are at the bottom. Meanwhile Juggs are some of the best DPS and receive no nerf? I'm sorry, but where are Sorcs overperforming? Maybe on bosses where melee is inadvisable, but that's just because people are forced to play rDPS, not because rDPS is better on average. Please don't do this. If I am misinformed and there is somewhere where sorcs are just absolutely busted in PvE let me know. If it's PvP, then nerf stuff in PvP. Make us choose between a bubble and phase walk to reduce survivability in PvP. People don't complain about sorcs in pvp because of their numbers. They complain cuz they are slippery, but once they can't slip away, their dead instantly.

Lightning outparses jugg in single target damage, so that's kind of a strange comparison to bring up. Lightning certainly is parsing a bit too much for ranged burst spec, a 1-2k dps nerf seems pretty warranted. Also making HO no longer viable to hardcast is a good change, should absolutely be better for mobility.

Not sure how much dps these changes will drop, if it's more than 4k it's definitely overdone and should be patched back up a bit.

Lightning outparses jugg in single target damage, so that's kind of a strange comparison to bring up. Lightning certainly is parsing a bit too much for ranged burst spec, a 1-2k dps nerf seems pretty warranted. Also making HO no longer viable to hardcast is a good change, should absolutely be better for mobility.

Not sure how much dps these changes will drop, if it's more than 4k it's definitely overdone and should be patched back up a bit.

so you belive that a 1/1000000 parse is reason to nerf a spec ? to be one of the worst in the game,

also you seem to leave out the small detail that this A on a dummy when in 90% of fights this cannot be repliated

and the fights where it CAN be replicated jugg can reflect stuff to easly beat a sorc

add ontop of that that jug is the BEST AOE spec in the game while lightning is pure single target it literly has NO aoe and if it takes aoe its single target is similar to arsenal and marksmanship ,

even tho i agree killing hardcasted HO is a good thing this is COMPLETELY the wrong way to do it

they are not only nerfing its single target with HO they are also nerfing cleave and aoe at the same time 2 forms of dps where ling is already among the weakest in the entire game currently only deception being weaker

the goal of these nerfs is not to "balance" the spec otherwise they would have simply slightly nerfed HO damage and increased cast time and then BUFFED HO And the force storm talent and lighning bolt bye quite a substantial margin

Lightning outparses jugg in single target damage, so that's kind of a strange comparison to bring up. Lightning certainly is parsing a bit too much for ranged burst spec, a 1-2k dps nerf seems pretty warranted. Also making HO no longer viable to hardcast is a good change, should absolutely be better for mobility.

Not sure how much dps these changes will drop, if it's more than 4k it's definitely overdone and should be patched back up a bit.

If anything JUGGS need a nerf 170 k aoe DPS is balanced ??

doing 30K+ on a spec with literly nothing to **** up while having insane aoe is to mutch

like there is a reason when you go into a raid with competent people you legit only see juggs pt's and mara's

they are miles and i mean miles above any of the ranged specs

the only ranged spec you see some what regulary , and it still underpreforms massivly is lightning and it only gets played more then engi and IO both wich both do farm more dps if played properly is because BW in there infinite wisdom with the addition OF HO and removal of key passives removed most of the skill from the spec

turning it from a high skill high reward to a low skill ok reward spec that every baboon can now play aka making a ranged jugg albe it farr less powerfull

also this spec is completely relieant on having a armor brake class in the raid to do its damage , and preferably a spec with the internal debuff as without both of them it again parses lower then a jugg base line

as jugg always brings AB while sorc does not, so before posting something that stupit try to atleast know the basics of how damage works in this game

If anything JUGGS need a nerf 170 k aoe DPS is balanced ??

doing 30K+ on a spec with literly nothing to **** up while having insane aoe is to mutch

like there is a reason when you go into a raid with competent people you legit only see juggs pt's and mara's

 

they are miles and i mean miles above any of the ranged specs

 

the only ranged spec you see some what regulary , and it still underpreforms massivly is lightning and it only gets played more then engi and IO both wich both do farm more dps if played properly is because BW in there infinite wisdom with the addition OF HO and removal of key passives removed most of the skill from the spec

 

turning it from a high skill high reward to a low skill ok reward spec that every baboon can now play aka making a ranged jugg albe it farr less powerfull

 

also this spec is completely relieant on having a armor brake class in the raid to do its damage , and preferably a spec with the internal debuff as without both of them it again parses lower then a jugg base line

 

as jugg always brings AB while sorc does not, so before posting something that stupit try to atleast know the basics of how damage works in this game

Jugg can certainly use a nerf to AoE damage (Vengeance to be exact, Rage has pitiful AoE). I never claimed otherwise. But AoE dps in a group usually runs into diminishing returns, so Juggs are rarely useful to run more than one of, same for AB really.

In that sense it's less of a pressing issue I'd say. But yeah tbh if they just straight up removed Cut to Pieces that would be an okay nerf.

But it's a whole lot of whataboutism. Lightning is overperforning in the single target sustained dps department, without a doubt.

I'm not sure who you run with, but we run with 2 lightning sorcs default on R4. It'd be great if IO and Madness got brought up a bit, and Lightning slightly down. PTs can use a nerf, which they're getting. Jugg can use an AoE nerf. Fury and Rage could technically use a single target nerf, but with Obliterate rotational they'll never really be top meta, it's a liability on too many fights.

Also for the AB, just bring it back to jugg tanks and there'll be less pressure on dps to bring it. That's been my personal project since they removed it with 3.0.

Jugg can certainly use a nerf to AoE damage (Vengeance to be exact, Rage has pitiful AoE). I never claimed otherwise. But AoE dps in a group usually runs into diminishing returns, so Juggs are rarely useful to run more than one of, same for AB really.

 

In that sense it's less of a pressing issue I'd say. But yeah tbh if they just straight up removed Cut to Pieces that would be an okay nerf.

 

But it's a whole lot of whataboutism. Lightning is overperforning in the single target sustained dps department, without a doubt.

 

I'm not sure who you run with, but we run with 2 lightning sorcs default on R4. It'd be great if IO and Madness got brought up a bit, and Lightning slightly down. PTs can use a nerf, which they're getting. Jugg can use an AoE nerf. Fury and Rage could technically use a single target nerf, but with Obliterate rotational they'll never really be top meta, it's a liability on too many fights.

 

Also for the AB, just bring it back to jugg tanks and there'll be less pressure on dps to bring it. That's been my personal project since they removed it with 3.0.

the thing is ling is not over preforming it is on par or slightly below io and engi and is far squishier and less mobile

the thing is ling lends itself quite well to the first few fights in R4 that is without a doubt but you can't nerf a spec because it is good inside of the newest raid,

look at brontes there it not where near some of the other specs even if played perfectly and it will get nerfed

regardless the issue i have with the nerf especialy is the TB And crit changes

as both affect the all the other possible builds

Ho is a problematic and dumb skill and should never have existed same as volt rush, the fact that the devs ram these new skills inside of a spec that worked perfectly before they even joined the team and are nerfing it expansion after expansion to fit whatever there deluded idea of the spec is is just beyond irititing

just to list the ammount of crap ling has to deal with (most cooldown reliant spec in the game thanks to overpowerd and badly designed legendary implants super in flexible rotation thanks to HO Dead top utility row points wasted on base line passives and usless skills getting spit up and forced in extremely bad target swapping thanks to a badly designed tactical low frame rates thanks to badly desinged tactical no mobility thanks to ho no defensive thanks to the new system)

these are just some of the issues with the spec not even begin about the stupit luck needed to do actual damage

the current devs have NO clue how this spec works and are acticly ruining it,

Like they prolly don't even know that in 340 gear with the right set up you don't even hardcast HO anymore

the thing is ling is not over preforming it is on par or slightly below io and engi and is far squishier and less mobile

the thing is ling lends itself quite well to the first few fights in R4 that is without a doubt but you can't nerf a spec because it is good inside of the newest raid,

 

look at brontes there it not where near some of the other specs even if played perfectly and it will get nerfed

regardless the issue i have with the nerf especialy is the TB And crit changes

 

as both affect the all the other possible builds

Ho is a problematic and dumb skill and should never have existed same as volt rush, the fact that the devs ram these new skills inside of a spec that worked perfectly before they even joined the team and are nerfing it expansion after expansion to fit whatever there deluded idea of the spec is is just beyond irititing

 

just to list the ammount of crap ling has to deal with (most cooldown reliant spec in the game thanks to overpowerd and badly designed legendary implants super in flexible rotation thanks to HO Dead top utility row points wasted on base line passives and usless skills getting spit up and forced in extremely bad target swapping thanks to a badly designed tactical low frame rates thanks to badly desinged tactical no mobility thanks to ho no defensive thanks to the new system)

 

these are just some of the issues with the spec not even begin about the stupit luck needed to do actual damage

the current devs have NO clue how this spec works and are acticly ruining it,

 

Like they prolly don't even know that in 340 gear with the right set up you don't even hardcast HO anymore

Lightening is acually currently the 6th best spec at dummy parsing (1. Fury, 2. Hatred, 3. Concealment, 4. Deception, 5. Carnage, 6. Lightening, 7. Annihilation, 8. Engineering, 9. Lethality, 10. Rage, 11. Virulence, 12. Vengeance, 13. Innovative Ordnance, 14. Pyrotech, 15. Madness, 16. Advanced Prototype, 17. Arsenal, 18. Marksmanship).

I know it is just dummy parsing, but that idea "melee sustain>melee burst=ranged sustain>ranged burst" should acually apply for dummy parsing so all dps are equal in operational boss. Also there should be exceptions like passive dps (PT), crazy aoe (juggs) or way too much raid utility (mara). So Lightening is acually little bit higher than it should be (it should acually pars same numbers as arsenal and marksmanship, but those two specs should get little buff).

Lightening is acually currently the 6th best spec at dummy parsing (1. Fury, 2. Hatred, 3. Concealment, 4. Deception, 5. Carnage, 6. Lightening, 7. Annihilation, 8. Engineering, 9. Lethality, 10. Rage, 11. Virulence, 12. Vengeance, 13. Innovative Ordnance, 14. Pyrotech, 15. Madness, 16. Advanced Prototype, 17. Arsenal, 18. Marksmanship).

 

I know it is just dummy parsing, but that idea "melee sustain>melee burst=ranged sustain>ranged burst" should acually apply for dummy parsing so all dps are equal in operational boss. Also there should be exceptions like passive dps (PT), crazy aoe (juggs) or way too much raid utility (mara). So Lightening is acually little bit higher than it should be (it should acually pars same numbers as arsenal and marksmanship, but those two specs should get little buff).

Why would it apply to dummy parsing? A boss fight that's challenging rarely consists of ~ 3 minutes hitting a target that does nothing while standing still. Hatred for example does really well on a dummy and when you can easily spread but can lose severely with downtime or when you find yourself needing short intervals of burst DPS. Not every DPS spec is meant to be equally great at everything at all times. That being said, with the introduction of combat styles and the reshuffling of talents and skills, the devs had a great chance to make more classes viable and flexible and sadly, they did not take advantage. Where sometimes you can choose between more aoe dps or single target dps, you rarely have a burst vs consistent dps choice in the trees. And instead of focusing around making classes better at some things some times, they chose to overly pressure every spec into a very specific niche.

The devs also drastically overvalue the advantages that ranged DPS provides. Nobody plays MM or Arsenal because they're just borderline pointless. They also drastically overestimate the value of burst in PVE content. Especially when you have dot classes for example who can spec into burst like triggering remaining Dots with shock or a pyro PT who has the strongest 15 sec burst of all.

But at this point I don't even know what the devs want. Are we supposed to all play the same 4-5 specs for serious PVE content and the same 3-4 specs for PVP content and the rest is just for RP purposes? Are all specs supposed to be viable in all content (not necessarily equal on all bosses but better at times, worse than others?). The initial posts state they want to bring top to bottom DPS closer. But this just makes three more specs be at the bottom. The initial posts states they want all styles to be viable, yet ling and AP PT will not be viable for pve content after this update goes live because they'll be at the bottom and classes that provide mostly the same benefits as those specs are at the top (comparatively).

And it's not the first time they've done this. The nerf to Virulence last patch (was it?) was completely pointless. Now they nerf Concealment without it seeing any play in real PVE content. Instead of making you choose between what would make it good in PVE (ae reduce that is not tied to a buff lasting 4 seconds) and another def ability that isn't a joke (looking at you shield probe) and whatever makes it so strong in pvp, they half-*** give you what you needed and take away the only thing that made you viable (the DPS).

I wish the devs would just at least try to explain the issues they have with the specs in what content so the feedback could be better. We have some 40 pages throwing wild guesses into the unknown trying to figure out why they're doing things that are obviously nonsensical and there's just zero information what their problem with those specs are.

ok: agaim sorc should not be able to compete with PTs DPS in the brontes burn. If you need DPS, bring a PT. If this ever changes the spec that does more is defacto broken. PT and Mara classes are made for raiding, they are very strong, they probably outparse people with passive DPS alone. If a sorc would do more, it would be sorc being broken, but never PT being weak.

That's the problem with the "balance". If people want to kill Brontes they first need to learn to play PT and bring PT. What if people don't like playing PT?

On 5.x we didn't have a PT in the group (nor mara), we all played our favorite (non-meta) classes and specs when we got her down. On 6.x we had to bring one PT to get her down. Luckily we had someone who likes playing it so it wasn't a big problem. I haven't been there in 7.x because that group disbanded, but it looks like class balance is not getting better, it's getting worse.

All classes should be viable for end game. Everyone playing same the class is just boring and it leaves no room for being creative.

That's the problem with the "balance". If people want to kill Brontes they first need to learn to play PT and bring PT. What if people don't like playing PT?

 

On 5.x we didn't have a PT in the group (nor mara), we all played our favorite (non-meta) classes and specs when we got her down. On 6.x we had to bring one PT to get her down. Luckily we had someone who likes playing it so it wasn't a big problem. I haven't been there in 7.x because that group disbanded, but it looks like class balance is not getting better, it's getting worse.

 

All classes should be viable for end game. Everyone playing same the class is just boring and it leaves no room for being creative.

Uhm, if people don't want to play meta in progress they do not want to kill the boss. Its just not how that works.

PT has pyroshield, no heat problems 2 breakers maybe 2nd fuel too its practically theorycrafted for tat boss, just like mara is by far the best DPS for Izax, or used to be. Sorc is, or was, the best class for huntmaster if you want one for sorc.

All classes are viable, but not meta and if people want to PROGRESS a boss and don't play meta they simply do not want to kill the boss and are actively holding their team hostage

Uhm, if people don't want to play meta in progress they do not want to kill the boss. Its just not how that works.

 

PT has pyroshield, no heat problems 2 breakers maybe 2nd fuel too its practically theorycrafted for tat boss, just like mara is by far the best DPS for Izax, or used to be. Sorc is, or was, the best class for huntmaster if you want one for sorc.

 

All classes are viable, but not meta and if people want to PROGRESS a boss and don't play meta they simply do not want to kill the boss and are actively holding their team hostage

Or, you know.. they're just not that good with other specs and can't just pick it up in 5 minutes without having any fun in order to be helpful. Why is that a better solution than the devs properly balancing the classes? Most players (by far) aren't at that level and even within the nim raiding group, many players play maybe 3 specs really well and that's it. Wouldn't it be better if more specs were viable and people could then play with individual strengths of those classes instead of having to constantly stack the one or two meta classes for every fight?

I personally can play almost every DPS spec well and can thus bring it to the boss where it's needed but even I don't like to be unable to play some classes I just enjoy playing without being flat out worse for the group than I'd be on a different class. And it's especially even less fun now that 3 more specs will become obsolete (at least compared to other classes you could bring instead) while not a single spec will be made more viable. It's tough to argue for Hatred over Anni now except for important burn phases but with a dmg nerf on Hatred? What's the point? Why bring AP PT over Pyro or Veng? Why Viru over Engi after the last nerf (except maybe the debuff)? There are more and more limits on sensible choices and it makes the game less fun for everybody.

If the Bioware staff actually cared about our feedback they’d realize that by now people are tired of constantly seeing classes get nerfed that shouldn’t be nerfed and one specific group of people (the PVP community) being listened to over another. In the end many in here, a good majority are telling the Bioware staff not to nerf the classes cause it doesn’t fix the issues in the game but instead makes more problems and causes people to be unable to play their favorite specs due to them no longer being viable or fun due to being unnecessarily nerfed.

Take lightning sorc/telekinetic sages for example, this class since 3.0 has been one of the worst classes to use in PVE since. Then 6.0 comes along and you finally give the lightning sorc/telekinetic sages the boost they need to be viable again and then you take it away in 7.0 and here you are once again getting ready to hit them with a second nerf in 7.1.1 and people who enjoy playing lightning sorc/telekinetic sages are suppose to take this lightly or not feel there is a biased against this particular spec when you constantly nerf it to the ground and make it where people don’t want them in HM or NiM OPS groups because they cannot bring the DPS output. Yes the person can play another spec that can but in the end, every person has their favorite spec and they want to play it the most and so that means the person is going to be very unhappy and not going to play at all or very little or are just going to do content where they can play the class they want and not even try to go into OPS at all cause what’s the point?

But the staff acts like it doesn’t care about the player base cause if it did then it would stop nerfing the classes and making it where it’s pointless to learn the classes, specs and rotations cause even if they do, you’ll just nerf them to the ground anyway out of pure biased instead of balancing the game to accommodate to the two different groups, the PVPers and the raiders. You need to make it where there’s two sets of skill trees made specifically for each environment, one for PVE and one for PVP as well as going back to the two different sets of gear for each as well instead of one for all.

You need to stop constantly changing the gearing system as 6.0 was actually the best gearing system you had, the only issue was you making the Amplifiers a credit sink and RNG which was actually what was upsetting people, and instead of fixing that by either lowering the cost completely to where it was something like 10k credits every role or just not making it RNG at all or just making it where you could buy it directly, you removed it entirely and removed the set bonuses and nerfing tons of classes in the process of doing so.

Enough is enough Bioware. We don’t want nerfs in this game, we want actual fixes that allow us to all play the specs and content we want to play without fear of being excluded because you can’t make a system to balance between PVP and PVE cause you cater to one community of the game while hurting another.

On 8/30/2022 at 2:31 PM, ChrisDurel said:

 changes planned for 7.1.1 (Jackie mentioned it in this thread).

hey  @ChrisDurel , it looks like you  hyperlinked the wrong Jackie  "thread"  ^  there.   Instead, i think you meant  this one:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/925060-game-update-711/   ...?

On 9/20/2022 at 1:49 PM, Ahwassa said:

So when is 7.1.1 coming out?

All  we know so far (from that thread i linked above ^^ )  is  "Fall 2022" .

I'm guessing that date  will turn into WINTER  though.   We shall see.

On 8/31/2022 at 8:31 AM, ChrisDurel said:

• Reduced the bonus critical hit damage while Stim Boost is active from 20% to 15%.
• The Tactical “Acid Lash” no longer improves the damage of Acid Blade.

Why? For what reason are you making acid lash 100% useless? Why not just making bonus damage 30%-40%?

What's wrong with the people who "balance" this game? You're just making "nice" dps trashy and not nerfing those who really need to be nerfed. FFS, fire the one who telling whom to nerf - this person doesn't even play the game I'm sure of that 100%.

These dev decisions pretty much sum up why I sub for 1 month out of the year.

so, I can understand needing to nerf some of the DPS classes, especially the S-tier ones. but the best way to balance them is to bring them down a little while raising the lower ones.  the op ones, I don't get it, your taking a DPS class that's already D-tier at best and making them worse; Merc/Mando needs a buff in a bad way. 

Any chance we could get another dev post by Chris or someone else on the balance team about any changes that have been made based on feedback?

It would also be great to get a post going back over how the team actually balances combat styles because no one I've talked to thinks that combat styles like virulence or lightning needed nerfing, while everyone talks about marksmanship as if it's a joke and it still hasn't received any meaningful changes.

(Polarizing still only buffs innervate heals for a measly 3% during polarity shift and it haunts my dreams)

The proposed changes to Serenity/Hatred will cripple the rotation.
I can agree that Serenity/Hatred is doing well currently, but this is not simply a reduction of damage output (scaling back dps numbers). This is a complete change to rotation and ability casts.
Fundamentally, this build has to go through a discovery phase on its rotation and start from scratch again.

Please hear our feedback.
Yes, the spec is in a good place and is not above dev eyes when it comes to balance. But Serenity/Hatred is a melee class. There are other ways to level out without complete rotation disruption and rendering a center piece "melee class ability" (Saber Strike) dead on arrival.