Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Proton torpedo balancing


theknightof's Avatar


theknightof
10.15.2021 , 10:00 AM | #1
Probably been discussed plenty before but I am opening the topic anyway:
Protons are OP, and the obvious first choice for most of us for any ship that can have the component. What bothers me is that it takes away the freedom of choice -- if I try alternative missiles I am compromising performance for the sake of fun. The simplest way of balancing the missiles, and allowing us more viable selections is to nerf the Proton. Of course there is the option to boost most of the rest -- I personally wouldn't mind having other dangerous missiles so the matches will be more intense.
If Proton is to be nerfed, the first things that come to my mind are removing its DOT, and practically limiting its range to 10k (probably by having missile speed & range being the same tier upgrade).

NikovUmSar's Avatar


NikovUmSar
10.15.2021 , 10:46 AM | #2
Which ship are you flying?
GSF discord
Remusqui - YouTube GSF video channel

Enticy's Avatar


Enticy
10.15.2021 , 04:44 PM | #3
Two things. One, limiting the range of protons isnít going to do much, as most ace pilots operate well within 10,000m. In fact, if you main a T3 Strike, youíre looking at an operational range of <4,000m. Two, while protorps are powerful, they arenít unbeatable or broken. If you have full health and shields, they wonít one shot you. Hydro Spanner counters the DOT enough to let you survive, and the lock-on time is enough to allow a good pilot to los or engine break when the missile is fired. Multiple protorps can be a problem, but so can multiple railguns or multiple battle Scouts.

Nothing needs to be nerfed. Instead, players need to learn to play around these things and beat them. If BW nerfed everything that players said needed to be nerfed, we might as well be playing a My Little Pony sim for all the damage people would do in this game.

theknightof's Avatar


theknightof
10.16.2021 , 12:23 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Enticy View Post
Two things. One, limiting the range of protons isnít going to do much, as most ace pilots operate well within 10,000m. In fact, if you main a T3 Strike, youíre looking at an operational range of <4,000m. Two, while protorps are powerful, they arenít unbeatable or broken. If you have full health and shields, they wonít one shot you. Hydro Spanner counters the DOT enough to let you survive, and the lock-on time is enough to allow a good pilot to los or engine break when the missile is fired. Multiple protorps can be a problem, but so can multiple railguns or multiple battle Scouts.

Nothing needs to be nerfed. Instead, players need to learn to play around these things and beat them. If BW nerfed everything that players said needed to be nerfed, we might as well be playing a My Little Pony sim for all the damage people would do in this game.
so which missiles do you choose for a tmd ship? you sound like you don't use protons, or just talking rubbish...
and as you said "If you have full health and shields, they wonít one shot you". under these conditions other missiles won't even concern you.
there is no need to give us a lecture on how to avoid a missile -- you can do the same against other missiles but they won't kill you even if you failed to....
and i'm speaking balance of components here, not of ships.

theknightof's Avatar


theknightof
10.16.2021 , 12:32 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by NikovUmSar View Post
Which ship are you flying?
using protons on strikers.
maybe for bomber/gs you has more flexibility (i don't know because last time i played gs is ages ago, and bombers i'd use only in domination where torpedoes are not the component to go for). but on a striker it's a no-brainer to pick proton before anything else.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
10.16.2021 , 05:27 AM | #6
I run concussion missiles on my T1F in preference to Protons. The shorter lock and wider arc add up to more missiles fired, which in the long run is more overall damage, which ends up being more kills in the long run. They also have strong utility effects in either piercing or slow depending on upgrade choice. In theory Clusters can also outperform Proton torp, but it requires a flying style where you'd probably be better of just switching to a battlescout and using Clusters on it.

On a Pike I'll definitely run Proton + something else, but to really be a mainstay weapon system torps need to be combined with another missile to back them up.

The good, and bad, thing about Protons is that they do their damage in big widely spaced out hits. That means it's more likely for any particular hit to net a kill (which new players love/hate depending on whether killing/being killed), but it pays for it with fairly low overall damage output. They are efficient in damage per kill, but higher output systems can put out enough damage to outdo them in total kills through sheer volume of damage output.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

NikovUmSar's Avatar


NikovUmSar
10.16.2021 , 07:20 AM | #7
Well, my choices are:

T1F - Concussions
T2F - EMP/Concussions
T3F - EMP

Proton has 3.0s lock time, and that's enough for me for switching it for smth else.
GSF discord
Remusqui - YouTube GSF video channel

theknightof's Avatar


theknightof
10.16.2021 , 01:20 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by NikovUmSar View Post
Well, my choices are:

T1F - Concussions
T2F - EMP/Concussions
T3F - EMP

Proton has 3.0s lock time, and that's enough for me for switching it for smth else.
my protons lock in 2.2 which makes them easy to use. it's a frequent 1-hit kill, and, in my opinion, is not so much fun regardless of which end of the missile you are on....

theknightof's Avatar


theknightof
10.16.2021 , 01:31 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramalina View Post
I run concussion missiles on my T1F in preference to Protons. The shorter lock and wider arc add up to more missiles fired, which in the long run is more overall damage, which ends up being more kills in the long run. They also have strong utility effects in either piercing or slow depending on upgrade choice. In theory Clusters can also outperform Proton torp, but it requires a flying style where you'd probably be better of just switching to a battlescout and using Clusters on it.

On a Pike I'll definitely run Proton + something else, but to really be a mainstay weapon system torps need to be combined with another missile to back them up.

The good, and bad, thing about Protons is that they do their damage in big widely spaced out hits. That means it's more likely for any particular hit to net a kill (which new players love/hate depending on whether killing/being killed), but it pays for it with fairly low overall damage output. They are efficient in damage per kill, but higher output systems can put out enough damage to outdo them in total kills through sheer volume of damage output.
fair points.
yet, what Concussion has in arc and speed, Proton has in range.
and in my opinion instant kill > debuffs.
it would take lots of statistics gathering to get a conclusive comparison.
and even if slightly nerfed Protons would still be among the most useful missiles -- there is always a room for one that deals so much hull dmg.
it would be hard to make a serious case that nerfing proton would disbalance the missile components.

theknightof's Avatar


theknightof
10.16.2021 , 02:52 PM | #10
...and if we compare Proton to the other long-range torpedo - Thermite - what do we see?
1. Proton has 1.5k longer range (no range upgrade option for Thermite)
2. 15-18sec DOT is not as useful (as in any pvp) as a high burst dmg
3. Target debuffs for a long-range missile -- not the best option...
Are they balanced?
The answer is obvious.