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Combat styles are death of game

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Combat styles are death of game

Kass's Avatar


Kass
07.31.2021 , 02:50 PM | #371
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
Well, apparently BW is listening to the players because there are been people calling for this, for a combat rebalance, people declaring that the combat is clunky, rotations are too long, TTK is too long, etc., no? Has that not been the refrain from the people who are against this?

So which is it? Should BW listen to their players, or should they only listen to the players who agree with you? Because, from the claims that have been made from some of the people in your "camp" these are changes that align with requests from the players. Just not your type of "players."
You might think I have a 'type of player', but let me correct you that I don't - I like everyone that plays SWTOR. I don't do the elitist gamer thing...

But you raise a valid point:

Who do you listen to, if you have a game community with chaos theory level opinions?

Now I can't speak to the motivations of those agreeing with nuking DCD's or the "I don't care about your mechanics - do whatever (I don't have time to think about this)" crowd... Voices like mine are not trying to be obstructionist, we are cautious and conservative about a game that has successfully existed for 10 years.

A conservative, method, logic based development path.

This is not an Intellectual Property (IP) that lends itself to RADICAL changes, It is an IP that requires a steady hand, nerves of steel, and a clear vision of the path ahead.

Then there is accepted game design theory and philosophy, some of which has made it into threads on PTS Forums from far more astute people than a simple player with a overactive HK-Troll-Droid

Voices like mine do not see those attributes in this proposed change.

So which group should be listened to?

The one with Rational arguments based in Reason, and attempting to preserve what helps make this game unique and engaging.

You can't design for everyone - Bioware shouldn't feel the need to apologize for the game SWTOR is!
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
07.31.2021 , 03:16 PM | #372
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
So which group should be listened to?

The one with Rational arguments based in Reason, and attempting to preserve what helps make this game unique and engaging.
If the idea is that you can't design for everyone then that potentially suggests there is no right answer including the above.

You believe that to be the right answer but what happens if you have a game or situation where the group you're talking about represents 100 people playing the game but then there's a much larger audience of a million other players saying something different?

Even if those million players are irrational and want radically different changes they at the end of the day account for the game's larger audience which is a hard thing for a developer or publisher to ignore. That's not to say that they're right but rather a game isn't necessarily going to be successful or survive based on just listening to the well-thought-out rational audience.

In other words that can't be the right or only answer because it too presents problems/issues.

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and attempting to preserve what helps make this game unique and engaging.
If the idea is to preserve everything that is unique does that mean they should ditch or be willing to change the elements of the game that aren't unique? We know for a fact that SWTOR copied WoW so if that's the case should they diverge from the things they copied from WoW or the most WoW like parts of the game in order to provide a more unique experience?

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You can't design for everyone - Bioware shouldn't feel the need to apologize for the game SWTOR is!
I don't know, I think there's a number of things people would be fine with Bioware apologizing for in regards to SWTOR

Unperson's Avatar


Unperson
07.31.2021 , 04:25 PM | #373
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
No, I'm not claiming that they know what they're doing just that what they've been doing over the past 10 years keeps the game in a state that it's able to continue onwards. They know that pretty much regardless of what they do they're going to see a numbers increase when they release an expansion. The amount of attention, numbers, money, etc, they draw during that time is probably more than what they see across an entire year when they go without any kind of significant update.
Do you have any hard figures for all that? Yeah, didn't think so.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Combat Styles are something that draws a lot of attention. It's getting attention in ways that previous updates haven't for quite some time.
Yeah. A school shooting also draws attention. What is your point?


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
No, I said to try and offer advice about multiple things and to try and suggest more than "Combat Styles bad, don't do em!" which has basically been what you've been saying as if that's any kind of help.

Where btw in this thread did you offer advice on how they could improve combat styles as opposed to just saying/suggesting they shouldn't do them?
Get it through your skull. I don't have to be "helpful". I am merely stating a preference. I'm sorry this bothers you so deeply that you need to write a treatise every time you reply.



Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
So when 7.0 releases you won't be playing it all?
Yes. I will unsub and uninstall the game. Plenty of stuff to keep me entertained.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
You keep trying to justify it through "I don't sub when I don't like the changes but do sub when they improve things." but you're still rewarding the company that makes bad changes to the game because at the end of the day you still want to play SWTOR and you'll try to rationalize that any way you can.
What the hell? I said I unsubbed and forgot about the game during the 4-5.0 era. Came back when I got word that they had completed GftM and were moving away from galactic command -- decided to stay when they announced a new full raid. I do not have any ulterior motives, I do not intend to "punish" Bioware, that's just stupid. I simply don't like where they are going, so I stop paying. I have no attachment. What's so hard to understand?



Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Really, because I'm not getting the impression that people are going to stop subbing when 7.0 releases but instead the game will have a drop-off in numbers after the first two months it comes out which has typically been the case when they release expansions.
No, that's the impression you are getting because that's what you want to believe, as it's what fits your narrative and validates your discourse that all will be well regardless. Go ahead and check out the feedback threads. Never in the history of the game has there been such unanimous negative reaction against proposed changes.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
"Yeah but it's going to be way more people than usual!" maybe but not enough to actually kill the game especially not before they can get to a point where they can recover from it by making a new set of changes.

If this is accurate look at where the numbers go up and down then cross-reference that with what changes happened and when.

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor/stats
Wow. Those trends match what I said almost to a T. Dec 2018 is when 5.10 dropped, which is the Ossus and nim GftM patch. Oct 2019 marks the release of 6.0, which is a big chunk of content including the new raid. It's almost as if... people don't want stupid changes and more content draws them in and keeps them around.

You're making this too easy.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Yeah you will. If/when they release (big) story updates they're always going to see a large influx of players because that continues to be the biggest draw for a number of players.
Trying to be seer now? Don't quit your day job. I don't really care about story. I haven't even done the latest bits. And there's plenty of other games with good stories. Star Wars games, too. I can get my fix anywhere.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
If the game's combat was anything worth celebrating or sticking around for you most likely wouldn't see the significant drop-offs between expansions but the reality has always been that it's not a big enough draw to the game or the thing that keeps players coming back.
I see what's happening. You are a revolving door story player, and think everyone else is too. Nah, I've been logging for raids almost exclusively for more than a year now. Other people just do pvp. Just because the gameplay isn't keeping you around doesn't mean it's not keeping anyone around. It seems to be keeping enough people around to keep the lights on between content drops at least.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Do you seriously think that when a lot of people leave the game between expansions that the thing they're most excited to get back to when they return is the combat? There's no reason to get excited about it, especially when PVE content offers little to no variety with players approaching many encounters the same way everytime, ie run into a mob press 1-3 (if even that) on their skill bar before running to the next mob and repeating. Same goes for FPs and OPs tor. You're not necessarily approaching the encounters the same way you do in the open world but you're doing the exact same things, patterns, etc, to take down the bosses and enemies every time.
See above. I'm excited to get new raids. Yes, that's combat. I don't care what "a lot of people" (i.e. you) do or enjoy. You don't have any hard facts on that, either. You are literally imagining a bunch of stuff and attempting to pass it off as facts. Your hypotheses don't even explain what's been happening, either.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Not really. It's gotten a lot of attention and will bring in a lot of people if only for a month or two. They can eventually change how it all works in a further update if things aren't the way people want like they did Galactic Command.
Heh. It's becoming increasingly clear that you have no clue what you are talking about. It took them close to two years to finally scrap galactic command (from early 2017 to late 2019), not two months. And during the transition we got the lame Ossus gearing which, while not as bad as the atrocious GC, was still not good.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Unless EA significantly re-invests in the game it's going to be SWTOR's fate to slowly die off/out. Not doing Combat Styles isn't going to change that.
Nice framing, but no. It's not "game will die regardless so it doesn't matter if we do this". It's more "this is looking like it might significantly harm the game's health, so why do it?".

And again, it's not EA making decisions on what resources Bioware pools for SWTOR. That's a Bioware decision. It was a Bioware decision to move people to Andromeda, to Anthem, and now to DA4. Not EA.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Right and making enough money somehow to keep the servers up and running. That is SWTOR's fate if it doesn't get some type of overhaul. How do you not understand after all this time that's where SWTOR is headed?
Lol. The costs of keeping servers running are peanuts these days. AWS, Azure, you name it. One click and you double your throughput instantly. A few hundred subscribers can probably keep those games running.

And your own figures show that's not where SWTOR is necessarily headed. So once again it falls to you to prove why SWTOR needs this when even your own figures show relatively stable and respectable population numbers between content drops. Stop reasoning back from your desired conclusion.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
That's a fallacy and excuse you to justify continued play of the game the same way many others do with other games of the type.
"No that's a fallacy" is not an actual argument or rebuttal. But I see you are short on those, even if you try to cover that by typing a whole lot.

Maybe spend less time chopping up posts and writing theses and more playing the game. Who knows, you may even learn to appreciate the gameplay.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
07.31.2021 , 04:53 PM | #374
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
If the idea is that you can't design for everyone then that potentially suggests there is no right answer including the above.

You believe that to be the right answer but what happens if you have a game or situation where the group you're talking about represents 100 people playing the game but then there's a much larger audience of a million other players saying something different?

Even if those million players are irrational and want radically different changes they at the end of the day account for the game's larger audience which is a hard thing for a developer or publisher to ignore. That's not to say that they're right but rather a game isn't necessarily going to be successful or survive based on just listening to the well-thought-out rational audience.

In other words that can't be the right or only answer because it too presents problems/issues.



If the idea is to preserve everything that is unique does that mean they should ditch or be willing to change the elements of the game that aren't unique? We know for a fact that SWTOR copied WoW so if that's the case should they diverge from the things they copied from WoW or the most WoW like parts of the game in order to provide a more unique experience?



I don't know, I think there's a number of things people would be fine with Bioware apologizing for in regards to SWTOR
Not unreasonable points - though I'm not certain the analogy applies to our current circumstance or discussion; there are a large pool of players in opposition or with worthy critiques where it would be foolish not to weigh them.

The weight of a flippant fanboi post is not equal to a well reasoned critique or methodical opposition.
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
07.31.2021 , 05:58 PM | #375
Quote: Originally Posted by Unperson View Post
Do you have any hard figures for all that? Yeah, didn't think so.
...............

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Wow. Those trends match what I said almost to a T. Dec 2018 is when 5.10 dropped, which is the Ossus and nim GftM patch. Oct 2019 marks the release of 6.0, which is a big chunk of content including the new raid. It's almost as if... people don't want stupid changes and more content draws them in and keeps them around.

You're making this too easy.
Claim that I don't have hard then use the stats I posted to try and say that you're right. Nice job.

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Yeah. A school shooting also draws attention. What is your point?
That you're not right about everything the way you think you are.

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Get it through your skull. I don't have to be "helpful".
"People should be allowed to be helpful."

"I don't need to be helpful."

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I am merely stating a preference. I'm sorry this bothers you so deeply that you need to write a treatise every time you reply.
Says the hypocrite doing the same thing.

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Yes. I will unsub and uninstall the game.
Not before playing it you won't which makes you a hypocrite.

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I do not have any ulterior motives, I do not intend to "punish" Bioware, that's just stupid.
Your statements say/suggest otherwise.

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I simply don't like where they are going, so I stop paying.
But continue to give them money knowing they've done these things in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

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I have no attachment.
You wouldn't come back to the game or continue to play it if that were true.

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No, that's the impression you are getting because that's what you want to believe
No, I gain nor benefit anything from that being true.

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as it's what fits your narrative and validates your discourse that all will be well regardless.
My narrative that all will be well, yeah right. The game continuing onward is not me saying or claiming that it will do well only that it will continue onwards. Sounds like you're creating a narrative to validate yourself.

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Go ahead and check out the feedback threads. Never in the history of the game has there been such unanimous negative reaction against proposed changes.
Yeah, everybody was totally cool with them removing skill trees and reworking companions. Nobody ever claimed those changes or any others were the death of the game right? This is the first time ever that doom sayers have spoken out about the game huh?

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I don't really care about story.
Lots of people do but since it's not what you're into then it's not important to the game huh?

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And there's plenty of other games with good stories. Star Wars games, too. I can get my fix anywhere.
Just like there are games with better combat, including Star Wars ones too. See how that works?

If somebody wants an MMO with good/strong combat they're not looking towards SWTOR to provide that. Plenty of other MMOs offer better combat, group content, variety, etc, than what SWTOR offers.

So then the question becomes what does SWTOR have specifically that other MMOs don't? What are they able to lure people in with or entice them with?

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I see what's happening. You are a revolving door story player, and think everyone else is too.
Again no. I do recognize that there are many players who are though which is results in population spikes when new story content is released and then drop-offs when they finish playing through the story. SWTOR has been like that since launch.

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Nah, I've been logging for raids almost exclusively for more than a year now.
And how much of the game's population do you think you account for or represent?

Hey here's a crazy thought. What if Bioware/EA isn't really interested in retaining players who are only interested in PVP and Raids and I mean that aside from the continued lack of or little attention those features get over the years compared to other parts of the game or had you never noticed that things like significant PVP devoted updates have gotten fewer and further between as time has gone on. I wonder why that is?

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Just because the gameplay isn't keeping you around doesn't mean it's not keeping anyone around.
I'm not saying it doesn't, but there's a difference between gameplay and content that people think is good and enjoy vs content they're used to and continue to play.

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It seems to be keeping enough people around to keep the lights on between content drops at least.
And there will most likely still be enough people playing to do that after 7.0 drops.

See what you're not accounting for are all the people who endure SWTOR because it's a SW MMO and will always stick with it for that reason alone. It's obvious that there's a number of people like that who play the game and will continue to ride it out no matter what changes get made as has been evident by the number of people who still continue to play despite all the changes.

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See above. I'm excited to get new raids. Yes, that's combat. I don't care what "a lot of people" (i.e. you) do or enjoy.
Right, forgot, you're what's most important after all. What does it matter what else people want as long as you selfishly can get what you specifically want out of the game right?

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You don't have any hard facts on that, either.
I have no facts that combat is the same repetitive thing over and over again with little to no variety? When you do raids is there not an exact way people deal with the bosses?

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You are literally imagining a bunch of stuff and attempting to pass it off as facts.
Says the hypocrite stating his assumptions as fact to try and validate himself.

[quote]Heh. It's becoming increasingly clear that you have no clue what you are talking about.[/qoute]

It's not like your hypocritical statements and viewpoints make it look like you know what you're talking about.

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It took them close to two years to finally scrap galactic command (from early 2017 to late 2019), not two months.
I know how long it took and never said it took them two months to walk it back nor even suggested that was the case. I said they walked it back eventually which they did. You can't really walk back something like Galactic Command so easily or quickly given how much it was hooked into everything and I don't expect Combat Styles to be walked back quickly either.

When I say walk back Combat Styles I'm talking about them doing it when the next expansion hits not the next time they do maintenance on the game because historically when they've walked back something major like GS it takes a long time so chances are walking back Combat Styles would be similar.

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Nice framing, but no. It's not "game will die regardless so it doesn't matter if we do this".
Yes, the game will die. There's no getting around that. It's ridiculous to believe otherwise.

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It's more "this is looking like it might significantly harm the game's health, so why do it?".
The same could/can be said for not only many of SWTOR's other updates but other MMO/game updates as well.

Often times the answer is because they believe it will be an improvement and/or because the devs want to be able to experiment and try things, be creative, etc, instead of doing the exact thing players demand from them at all times.

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And again, it's not EA making decisions on what resources Bioware pools for SWTOR. That's a Bioware decision. It was a Bioware decision to move people to Andromeda, to Anthem, and now to DA4. Not EA.
Got any facts to back up that EA had no involvement in any of that stuff?

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Lol. The costs of keeping servers running are peanuts these days. AWS, Azure, you name it. One click and you double your throughput instantly. A few hundred subscribers can probably keep those games running.
And how many subs does it take to keep SWTOR running or are subs even where SWTOR generates most of it's revenue from?

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And your own figures show that's not where SWTOR is necessarily headed. So once again it falls to you to prove why SWTOR needs this when even your own figures show relatively stable and respectable population numbers between content drops.
I'm not saying they "need" to do this but rather that this is something they want or feel they need to do.

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"No that's a fallacy" is not an actual argument or rebuttal.
It is you just don't want to acknowledge it because it reflects poorly on you.

You play the game because at one point it made you feel good and you hope that when you continue to play it that you'll hit those same high highs you once had but you know that will never be the case yet you continue to keep playing it and subbing to it and will blame everybody else but yourself for continuing to do that when in reality you only ever yourself to blame for it and don't want to accept the responsibility of that.

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
07.31.2021 , 06:21 PM | #376
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
Not unreasonable points - though I'm not certain the analogy applies to our current circumstance or discussion; there are a large pool of players in opposition or with worthy critiques where it would be foolish not to weigh them.
True but how often do you see positive posts, threads, YouTube videos, etc, about features in SWTOR versus things people are upset or concerned about? The same applies to all forms of entertainment really.

The negative sides of those arguments in many cases will always seem to be bigger because the people who are excited about the changes don't tend to make the same type of noise if any noise at all.

For example, if they announced Class Stories were coming back it would get a positive reaction for sure but the moment would probably pass quickly compared to something people are upset about which tends to be the case.

Think about when something gets announced that upsets a lot of people only for it later to turn out that thing wasn't true or there was no need to worry after someone released a statement correcting the situation. That initial negative reaction always gets way more attention and a lasting impression than the correction ever does. Why is that?

My point being there are obviously a lot of people concerned about it this but it's coming across like they're the only ones that matter without any way to accurately gauge the reception of people who are looking forward to the changes.

At this point it really feels like more people need to get their hands on Combat Styles and that's not me saying wait to judge but rather until a significant amount of people get their hands on it or the population at large says they do or don't like it we're not going see any kind of significant change with it. That's just typically the way these things go.

The problem with SWTOR specifically in this regard is that their turnaround time to address things tends to be analogous to their time between updates which is few and far between.

This is unfortunately another thing SWTOR shares with WoW, not the frequency of updates, but for whatever reason WoW will not tend to change anything about a feature until the next big update goes live instead of putting out a patch or hotfix not long after to address that one thing.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.01.2021 , 05:29 AM | #377
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post

At this point it really feels like more people need to get their hands on Combat Styles and that's not me saying wait to judge but rather until a significant amount of people get their hands on it or the population at large says they do or don't like it we're not going see any kind of significant change with it. That's just typically the way these things go.
We're in agreement on this point.

Sadly in this life, you snooze you lose - if there is a call for player testing and feedback, and the people that would be proponents of the change(s) don't come and speak up (there's a thread called "In favor of pruning") on PTS Forum that supports the changes, then anyone else not participating in providing feedback can't complain if the change is modified or aborted due to opposition.

I'm not advocating that the loudest voice in the room wins - I'm just stating the reality is that a voice never raised can not be the basis of inaction - the well 'maybe' there could be more proponents than opponents, can't be the basis on whether or not to proceed.

At some point you have to Podoo or get off the Pot; as the old saying goes.

Those among the conservative pro-steward approach to the future of SWTOR should not be dismissed or ignored because of a 'potential' that is not based in evidence.

So I agree that the better approach would have been to have this all out on PTS with all classes and encouraging testing in both Operations and Unranked/Ranked Warzones, so that as word gets around about the changes, there's a measurable pulse on the sense of the community rather than just shooting blindly in the dark.

But as it stands right now - the voices on the forums providing the requested feedback are going to be first in line.
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
08.01.2021 , 05:42 AM | #378
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
So I agree that the better approach would have been to have this all out on PTS with all classes and encouraging testing in both Operations and Unranked/Ranked Warzones, so that as word gets around about the changes, there's a measurable pulse on the sense of the community rather than just shooting blindly in the dark.
Yeah, the slow rollout doesn't feel like the right move given we're not that far away from release and it'll no doubt make the compatibility of testing classes with and against each other harder.

As it stands right now all the feedback they've gotten about the Guardian exists within a vacuum because it was the only class that could be tested with the new changes but the perception about what is bad, good, needed or not needed will no doubt change when the other classes are made available to test.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.01.2021 , 10:27 AM | #379
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Yeah, the slow rollout doesn't feel like the right move given we're not that far away from release and it'll no doubt make the compatibility of testing classes with and against each other harder.

As it stands right now all the feedback they've gotten about the Guardian exists within a vacuum because it was the only class that could be tested with the new changes but the perception about what is bad, good, needed or not needed will no doubt change when the other classes are made available to test.
I get their interest in finding some viable rebranded nerf of the Damage with Tank - Skank Tank specs like Guardian or Juggernaut.

Last night in my Assassin Darkness Skank-Tank build I ran 1 Unranked Warzone that match-made as a 4 v 4 - it was 1 Powertech (qued as Tank) and 3 Juggernauts (qued as Damage), where as we had a mix of my Sin Darkness Skank-Tank (DwT but showing qued as Tank), 1 Guardian (qued as Damage), 1 Sin Deception (DPS), and 1 Shadow (DPS)...

We got tunneled and focused one by one, and the damage mitigation (and lack of coordination on our side) left us unable to score a single kill both rounds of the match.

Yet if I practice PVP with another player at the Rishi Stronghold PVP arena I have an even chance of besting them by a slight margin of HP left in a fair fight where we both dropping med-packs and our Active abilities and DCD's. You see great balance where the Sin Darkness in Skank-Tank build as a DwT can play evenly against a Juggernaut (this friendly player's build was Rage).

This dominant meta, of the majority running Juggernaut is not the healthiest thing for PVP, but if I apply the ability pruning approach to my Sin Darkness. the thought of not having the player agency to 'choose' when and in what circumstance I can pop my defensive's in PVP is akin to not being able to use two-cloaks how and when I deem necessary.

This removes player choice - it does not increase player choice.

In my layman game design head, but also as a veteran player from launch, it seems that the real issue lays in how STRONG the DCD's are. But consolidating them into Melee/Ranged abilities that are being actively used to Damage a target means you are removing the players ability to maximize there DPS as they will be forced to conserve an important ability so as to have the DCD available.

So this is a shell game, players will still preserve their DCD's for the right moment, targets like Juggernaut will still dominate the meta (people aren't going to throw away and biomass their Juggernauts), and the only thing you will see is the DPS stats in Unranked/Ranked drop BUT the time it takes to kill will remain the same...

... because players will preserve their play style that they've been using for years, and simply adapt that play style to the new combat mechanics, will less DPS.

Less DPS means even LONGER TIME TO KILL.

This theory is very distressing to certain droids...

EDIT: Forgot to mention that another piece to solve this puzzle as I see it is to have an updated Match Maker that prevents multiple Juggernauts from que syncing. We need a balanced Match Maker that slots in class categories.

Or at the very minimum a new Warzone type between Unranked and Ranked that adds this stricter Match Making - removing the 3-4 (or more) Juggernaut's in a match on one team.
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz