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There's a lot that should change in this game.


xdjinn

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So I've came back a bit over a month ago to SWTOR, found in my heart a bright spot for it and subbed again.

Now, weeks in and after working over half-way through the Legendary Player status (finally got around on playing different class stories), lvling alts and basically trying to enjoy the whole of the game I also started trying to participate on Weekly Events (which I never did before properly).

This week's BBA event is one of the few or virtually the only event that has worthwhile content (Rep vendor stuff), Gree for instance only holds ridiculous looking armor and the only somewhat useful stuff is locked behind Legendary rep, which's a off-putting grind to go for (and the event itself sucks, it's quests, how it was distributed, respawn times, etc.)

Which brings me to the pilling reasons that are slowly convincing me that subbing was a mistake and I should simply leave this game behind (hence why I think changes are necessary to many aspects of it).

 

To start, RNG for BBA's henchmen should be either removed or available for immediate check on the first quest, not after interrogating + having the meeting, this alone made me waste hours playing for nothing, just wasting my time. The 11 resets I had to take on a single character to actually get the Henchman target needed for Achievement almost made me rage uninstall the game (not to mention when you are forced to reset due to Troll players intentionally killing your target) So this event should either pack no RNG at all, be instance and or repeatable on a single day for a single character. The fact that this event requires us to alt-hop like maniacs to get anywhere worthy with it alone is enough for me to say that you do not deserve my endorsement, translating into subbing (since we basically vote with our wallets), also, the grief of being put through that was the last nail in the coffin for me, it's what made me wanna post this in the first place.

 

Secondly, the weekly limit on reputations should either be increased or removed entirely, so far you get to rep up only once a week, and if you are for the last rank, you are walled into a 2 week time-sink to get what you need/are after, that's utterly ridiculous. All reps should be okay to farm with a single character, now people are not only forced into alt-hopping due to daily limits, but they are also forced to sit back and wait to get their rewards for grinding it.

 

Finally, the lack of accessible content through playing the game normally when it comes to decorations is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen, with the insane inflation, no normal player that arrived recently has the means to get anything unless they start buying Cartel Market items with real money and spend ludicrous amounts of time trying to sell it for "reasonable" prices to other players. I went through that, and it was so frustrating that after I finally sold everything I've been avoiding doing it again.

 

The strongest point of this game ended up being cosmetics, Roleplaying potential, and maybe Ops (haven't tried those yet, never did), for story is only good on vanilla, and everything from KofFE onwards is just ridiculous (lore-wise), lack of content and paywalls make me feel like a cash-cow, and I hate it, also there's lack of support when needed, countless bugs and glitches that were never fixed (some are almost 10 years old, present since the official release), content that divide players into castes, favoritism over aggressive CP gathering guilds, etc. The game doesn't flow well as is, maybe the reason why so many like me keep a on-off relationship with SWTOR. If you are not a in-game billionaire, or do not spend unspeakable amounts of money in CM, you can't get anywhere, and if you wanna save on Sub to instead pursue CM investment, the bizarre F2P model adopted basically kills any chances of you doing that with all the ludicrous limitations (which reminds me, if there was no credit cap for prefered players, for instance, the economy would improve a lot considering the buying market for CM items would increase drastically).

 

Now, after all this rant/suggestion mix, all I have to say is that after dealing with another 5 resets on the same BBA quest to get 2 remaining henchmen, I've simply rage quit the game and I think I should unsub, there's nothing in the game that's worth the hassle to getting, and when the basic gameplay ceases to be enjoyable to put in place cheap mechanics and limitations that we have to circumvent by using "resets" "abandons" and what-not, the value of playing it is simply gone. Also, if I was to opt into RPing (which's a strong pull back into enjoying the game) I'd still be gimped by mechanics that punish you for playing in a non-frenetic pace, making RPing nearly impossible with that alone, not to mention the content important for RPing being locked away behind the CM and vanilla content being so limited or actually ridiculous looking.

 

Summing up, I'm strongly annoyed, I'm frustrated, I'm really considering leaving the SWTOR behind permanently. Games are meant to be a fun off-time, not a time-sink chore trying to drain your wallet like mobile shady games that function as slot-machines.

 

Thank you for reading, no need to tell me 'wElL yOu bE oFf tHeN" for I strongly think that disagreeing to what I've said is fiction.

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Secondly, the weekly limit on reputations should either be increased or removed entirely, so far you get to rep up only once a week, and if you are for the last rank, you are walled into a 2 week time-sink to get what you need/are after, that's utterly ridiculous. All reps should be okay to farm with a single character, now people are not only forced into alt-hopping due to daily limits, but they are also forced to sit back and wait to get their rewards for grinding it.

 

stopped reading to comment on this: you're playing a subscription-based MMORPG. the entire purpose of those limits is to string-out how long it takes to progress rep status, thus keep you subscribed. I'm pretty sure shrinking or eliminating those time gates is a non-starter. they want you to come back week to week. they don't want you to max rep in one event.

 

iunno. that's just basic subscription-based rep grind. I don't think you've presented any motivation for them to change it.

Edited by foxmob
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stopped reading to comment on this: you're playing a subscription-based MMORPG. the entire purpose of those limits is to string-out how long it takes to progress rep status, thus keep you subscribed. I'm pretty sure shrinking or eliminating those time gates is a non-starter. they want you to come back week to week. they don't want you to max rep in one event.

 

iunno. that's just basic subscription-based rep grind. I don't think you've presented any motivation for them to change it.

 

and it's what's making me want to unsub, one of the reasons. I pay stuff related to games because I like it, not because "i need it". There's no correct way of doing it, but if they pull you into the game you'll sub with a feeling of pride, happily, if they force you with cheap mechanics and greedy mentality, they'll end up pushing away the majority of people, tell me, do you feel pleasure on being obnoxiously exploited? I don't, to me it causes repulse. No wonder why the subs have been dropping drastically over the years, the more they pulled off the cash-cow tactics, the smaller the player-base became.

 

Now we get 2 US servers and 3 EU? How long before it becomes 1 US 1 EU? If it's not working, you must change, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results isn't what I'd call smart, effective, efficient not even under-average. It's plain stupid. Or maybe their plan is to actually kill the game, then I'd say they are doing it proper

Edited by xdjinn
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and it's what's making me want to unsub, one of the reasons. I pay stuff related to games because I like it, not because "i need it". There's no correct way of doing it, but if they pull you into the game you'll sub with a feeling of pride, happily, if they force you with cheap mechanics and greedy mentality, they'll end up pushing away the majority of people, tell me, do you feel pleasure on being obnoxiously exploited? I don't, to me it causes repulse. No wonder why the subs have been dropping drastically over the years, the more they pulled off the cash-cow tactics, the smaller the player-base became.

 

Now we get 2 US servers and 3 EU? How long before it becomes 1 US 1 EU? If it's not working, you must change, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results isn't what I'd call smart, effective, efficient not even under-average. It's plain stupid

 

Clearly MMOs aren't for you, just cancel your sub and stick to other types of games. Bye.

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Clearly MMOs aren't for you, just cancel your sub and stick to other types of games. Bye.

I'll quote myself on the same post:

Thank you for reading, no need to tell me 'wElL yOu bE oFf tHeN" for I strongly think that disagreeing to what I've said is fiction.

Worth to mention that there are other MMOs that aim for quality, not forced hooks and disgusting business practices, it's not "MMOs"... Information is important before making affirmations, be sharper next time, thx come a gain

Edited by xdjinn
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I'll quote myself on the same post:

 

Worth to mention that there are other MMOs that aim for quality, not forced hooks and disgusting business practices, it's not "MMOs"... Information is important before making affirmations

 

What is even more important is to present an argument that you can actually reason against. By claiming that any argument presented against your position as automatically being within the realm of fiction, you set yourself up for a big fall.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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In essence, you're rage quitting because you couldn't get the henchmen needed for an achievement. Pretty childish.

 

no, in essence I am on the verge of quitting the game because it's becoming an unpleasant experience, and it could be easily solved. That on top of all the other negative traits, like lack of support, poor bug fixing, paywalls, lack of new content, some poor content (KotFE onwards)... What is fun so far in the game, genuinely fun? Playing in a guild, GSF, RPing (even if only in your head), everything else is lackluster, or plain bad

Edited by xdjinn
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What is even more important is to present an argument that you can actually reason against. By claiming that any argument presented against your position as automatically being within the realm of fiction, you set yourself up for a big fall.

 

Big fall, and completely ignorable. He's not here to position an argument, he's here to rant (notice I never bothered to reply to the OP). There's nothing to reply to if he thinks all counter-narratives are fiction.

 

Let him rant and the rest of us can move on.

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I'll quote myself on the same post:

 

Worth to mention that there are other MMOs that aim for quality, not forced hooks and disgusting business practices, it's not "MMOs"... Information is important before making affirmations, be sharper next time, thx come a gain

 

OK.

 

How many MMOs have you actually played?

 

I've been playing consistently, MMOs, since 2005. I've played P2W Korean Grinders, one in particular called Rappelz. Taming a basic pet, in a game that's driven by pets, not decos that follow you around, but actual pets that aid you in combat, was totally dependent on RNG. The "last nail in the coffin" for that game has been being driven since 2005...

 

I played Aion. I spent three years running the same mission, trying to get a single weapon drop, and never got it, totally RNG controlled, both on the drop, and rolling for it. ESO has a similar mechanic, although no rolling for loot, in that gear drops from specific mobs, but it's not a guaranteed drop. Neverwinter also has loot rolls, meaning you'll be running content a lot to get specific drops, unless you're very lucky, because again, RNG.

 

There are more, but I think the point is made? If not, the point is that they all have mechanics that strive to extend the amount of time you play, hoping you'll spend money while you do. They are, after all, businesses. Contrary to your "fiction" comment, some of us understand that. We may not like RNG, we may even despise it, but we understand why it's there, and what purpose it serves.

 

As far as Rep goes, it's not handled any differently now than it ever was. I've had weeks in the long distant past, where I had stacks of Rep from Oricon, or Sec X that I had to store, because I was capped for the week. I've had weeks where I didn't have to run either one for Rep, because using what I had in storage capped me for that week, and that was years ago.

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Big fall, and completely ignorable. He's not here to position an argument, he's here to rant (notice I never bothered to reply to the OP). There's nothing to reply to if he thinks all counter-narratives are fiction.

 

Let him rant and the rest of us can move on.

 

no, I just can't believe someone would be thick enough to agree with getting punished and paying for it on top in a media that is supposed to entertain you

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OK.

 

How many MMOs have you actually played?

 

I've been playing consistently, MMOs, since 2005. I've played P2W Korean Grinders, one in particular called Rappelz. Taming a basic pet, in a game that's driven by pets, not decos that follow you around, but actual pets that aid you in combat, was totally dependent on RNG. The "last nail in the coffin" for that game has been being driven since 2005...

 

I played Aion. I spent three years running the same mission, trying to get a single weapon drop, and never got it, totally RNG controlled, both on the drop, and rolling for it. ESO has a similar mechanic, although no rolling for loot, in that gear drops from specific mobs, but it's not a guaranteed drop. Neverwinter also has loot rolls, meaning you'll be running content a lot to get specific drops, unless you're very lucky, because again, RNG.

 

There are more, but I think the point is made? If not, the point is that they all have mechanics that strive to extend the amount of time you play, hoping you'll spend money while you do. They are, after all, businesses. Contrary to your "fiction" comment, some of us understand that. We may not like RNG, we may even despise it, but we understand why it's there, and what purpose it serves.

 

As far as Rep goes, it's not handled any differently now than it ever was. I've had weeks in the long distant past, where I had stacks of Rep from Oricon, or Sec X that I had to store, because I was capped for the week. I've had weeks where I didn't have to run either one for Rep, because using what I had in storage capped me for that week, and that was years ago.

 

poor choice on MMO style, but I'm good with not getting censored for mentioning other MMOs, so I'll simply say that you should research more. Asian MMOs are awful, those I avoid like a decease.

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Not getting what you want on the first try isn't punishment... :rolleyes:

if you are wasting time with zero reward, it is. (ZERO REWARD = Nothing at all because you are forced to reset the quest, you won't get EXP, RXP, not even those measly ridiculous amounts of credits, it's null effort)

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if you are wasting time with zero reward, it is. (ZERO REWARD = Nothing at all because you are forced to reset the quest, you won't get EXP, RXP, not even those measly ridiculous amounts of credits, it's null effort)

 

No, you weren't forced to reset the quest. You didn't get what you wanted on the first try, and chose to reset it. So essentially, you shot yourself in the foot, and are now complaining that it hurt.

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No, you weren't forced to reset the quest. You didn't get what you wanted on the first try, and chose to reset it. So essentially, you shot yourself in the foot, and are now complaining that it hurt.

 

embedded bad mechanic, if you had a degree in game design you'd understand how dumb the design of the quest itself is considering possible objectives, reward vs effort, time, etc. You can White Knight it, but at least be honest about it, don't try to say you are agreeing with something that was done badly just to get some kicks in a forum discussion, that's just dishonest with yourself.

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embedded bad mechanic, if you had a degree in game design you'd understand how dumb the design of the quest itself is considering possible objectives, reward vs effort, time, etc. You can White Knight it, but at least be honest about it, don't try to say you are agreeing with something that was done badly just to get some kicks in a forum discussion, that's just dishonest with yourself.

 

No white knighting required. The quest has a reward for completion, and you chose not to complete it because you didn't get an optional on the first try. This ignores the fact that it will be running all week, and that you can repeat it to get what you want, and every time you repeat it you get paid. If the other things in your OP are bad game design, there are no good MMOs. Because a lot of the basic mechanics you list exist in every MMO.

 

This discussion is marginally entertaining, maybe a 4/10? Mainly because it's fun to watch you resort to tropes and cliches instead of actual discussion. It's especially amusing because, in your own words, I'm "fiction", so you're essentially arguing with yourself? :confused:

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No white knighting required. The quest has a reward for completion, and you chose not to complete it because you didn't get an optional on the first try. This ignores the fact that it will be running all week, and that you can repeat it to get what you want, and every time you repeat it you get paid. If the other things in your OP are bad game design, there are no good MMOs. Because a lot of the basic mechanics you list exist in every MMO.

 

This discussion is marginally entertaining, maybe a 4/10? Mainly because it's fun to watch you resort to tropes and cliches instead of actual discussion. It's especially amusing because, in your own words, I'm "fiction", so you're essentially arguing with yourself? :confused:

 

if I repeated it 11 times to get one guy to appear, one week isn't enough

And no, you're no fiction, you are trapped into a fictional vision of things, a cattle bubble so to speak, I'll draw out the logic in an example:

 

Me "Look this chair could be improved by putting a fourth leg"

You "Three legs is enough, you can balance it out"

Me "But you cannot properly relax on it, it's not worth your money"

You "Of course it is, you are opting to relaxing on it, it's definitely worth my money, ALL CHAIRS ARE LIKE THAT!"

Me "okay chump, I'll try to draw it to you"

Edited by xdjinn
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if I repeated it 11 times to get one guy to appear, one week isn't enough

And no, you're no fiction, you are trapped into a fictional vision of things, a cattle bubble so to speak, I'll draw out the logic in an example:

 

Me "Look this chair could be improved by putting a fourth leg"

You "Three legs is enough, you can balance it out"

Me "But you cannot properly relax on it, it's not worth your money"

You "Of course it is, you are opting to relaxing on it, it's definitely worth my money, ALL CHAIRS ARE LIKE THAT!"

Me "okay chump, I'll try to draw it to you"

 

Except the chair in your example is a bar stool.

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Except the chair in your example is a bar stool.

 

right, a three legged bar stool, I understand you trying to defend yourself after that, but if not for that reason it's due to your sensitivity towards the fact you may have gone through the same hoops and now you find yourself entitled to say it must be that way so you do not feel unjustified by having to do it yourself. It's still a chair, and it's still flawed, reality doesn't bend to your whim

 

Worst part is that you are trying to argue with a "carpenter"

Edited by xdjinn
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right, a three legged bar stool, I understand you trying to defend yourself after that, but if not for that reason it's due to your sensitivity towards the fact you may have gone through the same hoops and now you find yourself entitled to say it must be that way so you do not feel unjustified by having to do it yourself. It's still a chair, and it's still flawed, reality doesn't bend to your whim

 

Worst part is that you are trying to argue with a "carpenter"

 

As a carpenter, I'm fully qualified to argue with one. What's richer is, as a gamer, that's played a lot of MMOs over the years, I gave a list earlier, which isn't all inclusive, but covers a wide spectrum of games over the years, I'm arguing with someone that's implied a degree in game design, that doesn't understand the idea of keeping players playing, and has stated that anyone that disagrees with them is "fiction".

 

Even here, instead of arguing actual points about the game, you're deflecting to "but this "chair" only has three legs", and "arguing with a carpenter". All while knowing absolutely nothing about the person you're engaging with. You assign reasons I might feel this way, or that way, or would bring up specific points, because the points are beyond your capacity to argue against. Why else go after the poster, instead of the post? It's not surprising, you started the thread going after opposing view points, why would I think it would be any different now? I wouldn't, and I don't.

 

You dislike it, so it's bad game design, ignoring similar mechanics in every MMO ever. I guess that's because it's an "Inconvenient Truth"? I even went so far as to list what some of those particular mechanics, designed to keep players playing, were. Instead of arguing those you went "but chair"... Which is why I went "but barstool". Because it's essentially the argument I have to make, because the factual bullet points laid out fly right over your head.

 

Do you, for example, know what a gear treadmill is, and why some games have it?

 

Do you know why some games have drops from specific mobs, but they aren't guaranteed?

 

Do you know why some games have loot rolling? Even better, why they have loot rolling on mobs that drop specific items that aren't guaranteed drops?

 

Do you know why games have RNG taming mechanics on pet cards, when those pets aren't just decorations?

 

I'll give you a hint, I've given you the answer to these questions a few times, including in this very post. I'll clue you in to the relevance too: They are the same basic thing as Rep caps here. They exist to give players something to do. A reason to log in and keep playing, and hopefully paying while they do. It's an industry standard thing, not isolated to swtor, and your feelings about not getting an optional mob on the first try, and trying to claim the quest doesn't pay w/out that optional, when it in fact does. Yep, sometimes it's RNG to the extreme, as much as I hate it, and it hates me, as provided with my Aion example of never getting my extendable weapons, despite working for them for three years.

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if I repeated it 11 times to get one guy to appear, one week isn't enough

And no, you're no fiction, you are trapped into a fictional vision of things, a cattle bubble so to speak, I'll draw out the logic in an example:

 

Me "Look this chair could be improved by putting a fourth leg"

You "Three legs is enough, you can balance it out"

Me "But you cannot properly relax on it, it's not worth your money"

You "Of course it is, you are opting to relaxing on it, it's definitely worth my money, ALL CHAIRS ARE LIKE THAT!"

Me "okay chump, I'll try to draw it to you"

 

It's better to just do the bounty and not actively trying to get the very last one you want.

*insert Jedi Master voice* The more you want something, the more you'll lose it.

 

I had one bounty left for the achievement, the D3 droid.

I know the droid spawns on DK, so this week, instead of keep resetting the mission, I just pick DK for my every toon.

And I got the droid at the 3rd toon.

Bounty on DK took about 5 min, so it didn't took that long, and I didn't waste my time because I still got the bounty rewards even if I didn't get the achievement at the first try.

 

The reason there's a rep limit each week is because if there isn't, people will just use their 20 alts to reach limit in one day, which is not really how it should works. I think it's reasonable enough that we can keep the extra rep tokens and just have to wait a little bit longer to reach top.

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In most games the RNG is so muuuch worse (ESO I´m looking at you).

Yes it´s annoying but the game has so much to offer for your sub.

 

I found the Bounty Hunter event to be one of the easier ones to finish. Yes it takes more than one week but it is what it is. This event is very old - I don´t think they´ll change anything.

 

IDK maybe you can do the event in a group? I´m sure you´ll get the mob you need someday.

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In most games the RNG is so muuuch worse (ESO I´m looking at you).

Yes it´s annoying but the game has so much to offer for your sub.

 

I found the Bounty Hunter event to be one of the easier ones to finish. Yes it takes more than one week but it is what it is. This event is very old - I don´t think they´ll change anything.

 

IDK maybe you can do the event in a group? I´m sure you´ll get the mob you need someday.

 

As a great man once said," it's not a sprint, it's a marathon " or something similar like that. They are designed to give you entertainment over a number of weeks, most of us know this, and don't mind it.

But if the OP feels the need to quit over it, so be it. Every game I've ever played has had issues that people want to quit over, there has been times I've nearly walked away from this game, but at the end of the day, I realised, all games have their issues, at least here I still have Star Wars. It doesn't mean I'm not out flirting with other games, and some day they might steal my heart :D

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