I feel like the upcoming changes in Legacy of the Sith are a lot more compelling for non-force users than they are for force sensitives.

For example, I (and many people, clearly) have always wanted a Sith equivalent to the trooper. While Bounty Hunter obviously filled that niche, wielding two pistols just felt very un-Storm Trooper-like; being able to now play, say, an agent as a trooper-in-all-but story is a big (though by no means perfect) step towards fulfilling that fantasy. Similarly, a lot us who played Bounty Hunters never really dug the pistols thing - Boba Fett, the undisputed archetype for a Mando Bounty Hunter - used the EE3 carbine (which, while the prop was obviously based around a six-shooter, was clearly intended to be a short-barreled rifle). Jango Fett's pistols were cool, yes, but they never should have been the only option for a job which, in the Star Wars universe, at least, uses pretty much any weapon necessary to get the job done. So this is a good change for those four classes.

What I'm not so happy about are the how these changes apply to the Jedi and Sith. The light/dark side dependence to play opposing styles could be something of an annoyance, yes, but ultimately my hangup is that there's no way to truly change factions once you either go bad or find redemption. No, you shouldn't be compelled to switch sides if you're, say, a naughty Jedi... but I've always felt like the option to 'fall to the dark side' should have been there for force users, and that - if they wanted to - their character could then transition to the Sith. Yes, this would have represented some additional developmental work... but, in an era where both factions now essentially play through the same storyline, it wouldn't be as immense an undertaking is it at first seems - especially if the option was only given for recent content (like, you'd finish Onslaught, or whatever, and if your character was sufficiently dark or light, you get a one-time opportunity to switch sides. This would allow a theoretical fallen Jedi to live on Dromund Kaas, fly Imperial ships, etc., but since the story they'd be playing moving forward would essentially be identical, the amount of additional dialogue necessary would be negligible).

So while I overall applaud these changes for my non-force characters, I'm still pretty disappointed that the ultimate fall from grace/redemption arc simply isn't possible in this game, and in all likelihood never will be. It's such a Star Wars-y "thing" to 'fall' to the dark side - not just choose that faction and be a baddy right from the get-go (and there really, REALLY should be serious consequences for being a full-on dark side Jedi and light side Sith). But I guess we're going to have to wait for some future MMORPG to offer that experience.

I would say that it will have essentially *no* effect on a faction switch option. Such an option would of necessity be based on interactions of the *origins* rather than the combat styles. If anything, it might even make it easier to build a faction switch because of the elimination of the links between story class (origin) and combat class (style).

In any event, the primary obstacle to an "early" faction switch is the stories themselves and the improbability of making the character work correctly afterwards. By "early", I mean "earlier than any currently released content" of course. It's reasonably easy to see how the current Saboteur story could lead into a "defect" option, but there won't be any other way of doing it.

I would say that it will have essentially *no* effect on a faction switch option. Such an option would of necessity be based on interactions of the *origins* rather than the combat styles. If anything, it might even make it easier to build a faction switch because of the elimination of the links between story class (origin) and combat class (style).

 

In any event, the primary obstacle to an "early" faction switch is the stories themselves and the improbability of making the character work correctly afterwards. By "early", I mean "earlier than any currently released content" of course. It's reasonably easy to see how the current Saboteur story could lead into a "defect" option, but there won't be any other way of doing it.

Oh, yeah, I would never expect some "get to level 30 and drop those Repubs like a bad habit!" option - it would obviously have to be based in new content. But I think time is kind of running out on it being a thing in TOR. Isn't the new Ubisoft game going to be an MMO (and, one would assume, is going to eat TOR's [already very minimal] market share)?

Going to eat TOR's [already very minimal] market share)?

1. At the moment, EA has 100% of the Star Wars franchise MMO marketshare. Not minimal.

2. That market is segmented. EA does not pursue every segment of that market. Can't think of a company that does.

1. At the moment, EA has 100% of the Star Wars franchise MMO marketshare. Not minimal.

2. That market is segmented. EA does not pursue every segment of that market. Can't think of a company that does.

I was under the impression the poster meant, minimal market share in MMOs in general.

Though, I don't recall TOR's ranking in terms of player numbers and other MMOs. Just that it was behind WoW and FFXIV

I was under the impression the poster meant, minimal market share in MMOs in general.

 

Though, I don't recall TOR's ranking in terms of player numbers and other MMOs. Just that it was behind WoW and FFXIV

That was the intent, yes. And while I certainly believe a more popular Star Wars MMORPG could command significantly more of the pie than does TOR, I think that would come at the expense of this game - not in the least because Disney would want the new product to be as successful as possible.

That was the intent, yes. And while I certainly believe a more popular Star Wars MMORPG could command significantly more of the pie than does TOR, I think that would come at the expense of this game - not in the least because Disney would want the new product to be as successful as possible.

But, given Disney's track record, any new Disney SW MMO is likely to be a woke failure. 🙄

I have tried FFXIV. I cannot understand it actually having fans. Its dull dull dull.

WOW I like, and ESO which is most flexible game I ever played . Every class can DPS, or heal or Tank. I still cannot wrap my head around plate wearing magic users or cloth wearing knights.

Oh, yeah, I would never expect some "get to level 30 and drop those Repubs like a bad habit!" option - it would obviously have to be based in new content. But I think time is kind of running out on it being a thing in TOR. Isn't the new Ubisoft game going to be an MMO (and, one would assume, is going to eat TOR's [already very minimal] market share)?

its not an MMO however. Its open world and story driven. If it was an MMO they would have made that clear

I would say that it will have essentially *no* effect on a faction switch option. Such an option would of necessity be based on interactions of the *origins* rather than the combat styles. If anything, it might even make it easier to build a faction switch because of the elimination of the links between story class (origin) and combat class (style).

 

In any event, the primary obstacle to an "early" faction switch is the stories themselves and the improbability of making the character work correctly afterwards. By "early", I mean "earlier than any currently released content" of course. It's reasonably easy to see how the current Saboteur story could lead into a "defect" option, but there won't be any other way of doing it.

Actually, There is one Class The Imperial Agent from their ORIGINAL story line Who DOES have the opportunity to switch factions and become a republic SIS agent, I have done it quite a few times...ITs just they have to turn it into fact rather then just part of her story they "forgot". Here is crossing fingers

My take is that the Devs decided the higher priority for the 7.0 cycle was to tie up the Heta Kol rebellion and liberated Darth Malgus storylines, and institute advanced class respec ... sorry, I mean, "Combat Styles" ... and intend to perpetuate the loyalist/saboteur aspect for at least another expansion cycle. The only announced OP of the expansion is unrelated to the larger story and is supposedly a continuation of what happened on Dxun. So it seems to me there are enough stories and core systems being addressed without leaving much time for what would almost certainly be an overwhelming project.

I don't honestly anticipate ever seeing a day when a light sided Sith Warrior can land on Carrick Station.

Actually, There is one Class The Imperial Agent from their ORIGINAL story line Who DOES have the opportunity to switch factions and become a republic SIS agent, I have done it quite a few times...ITs just they have to turn it into fact rather then just part of her story they "forgot". Here is crossing fingers

But you only switch your alliegance from a *story* point of view - what people mean by a faction-switch option is a game-mechanics switch. The Agent becomes a double agent, paid by the Empire but working (inside the Empire) for the Republic's goals.

And everyone gets the opportunity to switch their "true" (story) loyalty (just like the Agent does in the class story) in the JUS-and-after part of the story by taking the Saboteur option during Inflection Point.

I don't honestly anticipate ever seeing a day when a light sided Sith Warrior can land on Carrick Station.

Which would be really frustrating and disappointing and makes a mockery of us being able to side with "the other side" after the traitor arc. It's not like there isn't already a precedent for it (sort of). Elara Dorne (Trooper Story) switches sides from Empire to Republic, Lord Praven can (Jedi Knight Story), Lord Scourge does (Jedi Knight again), Jaesa Wilsaam can (Sith Warrior), Azshara Zavros does (Sith Inq), Kira Carsen starts of Sith and ends up Jedi and Jedi Knight Zylixx (Warrior story) considers whether switching from Jedi to Sith is a better option for him. There are probably others that I'm forgetting, however point is there's no reason why allowing players to properly switch sides should be an issue. If it's good enough for npcs it should be good enough for the players.

Which would be really frustrating and disappointing and makes a mockery of us being able to side with "the other side" after the traitor arc. It's not like there isn't already a precedent for it (sort of).

It's *very* "sort of", unfortunately, since all the precedents you cite below are *story* switches rather than "mechanics" switches, and the cited "Light Sith Warrior lands on Carrick Station" is definitely a *mechanics* switch.

Elara Dorne (Trooper Story) switches sides from Empire to Republic, Lord Praven can (Jedi Knight Story), Lord Scourge does (Jedi Knight again), Jaesa Wilsaam can (Sith Warrior),

It's easy to argue that *both* versions of Jaesa *do* switch (so "can" isn't appropriate). Dark Jaesa *obviously* switches her loyalty to the Sith (and revels in it), but Light Jaesa really does switch alleigance - she rejects the Jedi (and by extension the Republic) in favour of the Empire even if she doesn't descend into darkness.

Azshara Zavros does (Sith Inq), Kira Carsen starts of Sith and ends up Jedi and Jedi Knight Zylixx (Warrior story) considers whether switching from Jedi to Sith is a better option for him. There are probably others that I'm forgetting, however point is there's no reason why allowing players to properly switch sides should be an issue. If it's good enough for npcs it should be good enough for the players.

That's a storyish justification (which is good enough as a driver) for the switch, but the lack of a switch comes from what you'd call "technical" constraints. No, such constraints are not insurmountable, but overcoming them might be unreasonably expensive.

Anyway, please take a quick look at what I proposed in a previous thread about faction switches:

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9831378#post9831378

That was actually my thought. Maybe change the names on the opposite factions, but keep the class identity. The names below are just my thoughts on the matter, and I'm open to suggestions, especially for an equivalent of Powertech, where I totally lacked inspiration and where online thesauruses are *no* help at all.

 

Pub ==> Imp:

* Commando ==> Black Ops Commando (Black Ops being my vision of the Imp equivalent of Havoc Squad)

* Vanguard ==> Black Ops Vanguard

* Trooper ==> Black Ops Trooper (If you can think of something else that avoids the "BOT" abbreviation, go for it!)

* Gunslinger ==> Shooter (look up your Old West terminology!)

* Scoundrel ==> (digs in thesaurus) Swindler

* Smuggler ==> (still got that thesaurus open) Runner

* Jedi (anything) ==> Fallen Jedi (that thing) (avoids the problem of finding a translation of "Consular")

 

Imp ==> Pub:

* Mercenary ==> Freelancer

* Powertech ==> ((help me out here!))

* Bounty Hunter ==> Stalker (weak at best, and if you have better ideas, I'd be glad to hear them)

* Sniper ==> Rifleman (it's not an ideal conversion, but the two best are already in use: who would want to change from being a "Marksmanship Sniper" to being a "Marksmanship Marksman"?)

* Operative ==> Spook ("operative" is normally an adjective equivalent to "functional" or "operational"...)(1)

* Imperial Agent ==> Provocateur (whatever we put here would be contentious(2))

* Sith (anything) ==> Redeemed Sith (that thing)

 

(1) Operative isn't the only class named for an adjective. "Consular" is an adjective that describes things or activities related to consulates (and the implied consulate in a modern embassy), as opposed to "ambassadorial" which refers to things related specifically to an embassy or more narrowly to the ambassador him/her self. Mapping Jedi Consular to Fallen Jedi Consular avoided that issue.

 

(2) "Republic Agent" is a spectacularly bad alternative, since it would instantly attract complaints about a lack of "Republic Agent class story". In addition, "Provocateur" is a pretty good description of much of what the Agent does during the class story.