Jump to content

Master Loot Change with 6.3.2


CommunityTeam

Recommended Posts

  • Dev Post

Hi everyone,

 

We wanted to let you all know about an upcoming change that will be happening with Patch 6.3.2.

 

Currently, SWTOR has a Master Loot option which allows the party leader to choose who receives each gear piece and a Group Loot option where gear must be rolled on by members of the party and highest roll wins. This has led to unwanted friction during the loot process, so we are working to build an efficient process that removes this type of negative player experience and potentially harmful behaviors. In order to achieve this, we will be removing the Master Loot system to bring us closer to what we are calling the Personal Loot system.

 

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

We took a first step towards Personal Loot during the Onslaught expansion where gear was given based on your discipline. This has worked well, promoted a healthy player experience, and we want to continue building upon this system. Patch 6.3.2 will be the next step along that path as we move towards our 10th anniversary.

 

6.3.2 is currently targeted for end of the month/early September.

Edited by JackieKo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 145
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

nvm reread the post.

 

But still having no master looter is just silly.

 

Puggin lets say Brontes and anticipating getting the wings only to have them ninja'd sucks. But I cant imagine there are all too many instances of this happening, and with that only very few reports/tickets will be opened.

 

This is obviously to reduce support workload (which couldnt do anything anyways).

 

Still you shouldn't take away another system few player like to use only to appease even fewer (and somewhat lowering your workload).

Edited by agnahim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

 

We wanted to let you all know about an upcoming change that will be happening with Patch 6.3.2.

 

Currently, SWTOR has a Master Loot option which allows the party leader to choose who receives each gear piece and a Group Loot option where gear must be rolled on by members of the party and highest roll wins. This has led to unwanted friction during the loot process, so we are working to build an efficient process that removes this type of negative player experience and potentially harmful behaviors. In order to achieve this, we will be removing the Master Loot system to bring us closer to what we are calling the Personal Loot system.

 

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

We took a first step towards Personal Loot during the Onslaught expansion where gear was given based on your discipline. This has worked well, promoted a healthy player experience, and we want to continue building upon this system. Patch 6.3.2 will be the next step along that path as we move towards our 10th anniversary.

 

6.3.2 is currently targeted for end of the month/early September.

 

RIP the GDKP loot system, my favorite loot system in all of MMOs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

Does this mean that loot is completely distributed randomly and need to be traded thereafter? For example, the nightmare mounts (Wings of the Architect, etc.) will go directly to one player's inventory and need to be traded thereafter?

What happens in case the inventory of the player who is intended receive such loot is full?

What about unique items such as Crest of the Dread Master? This cannot go into the inventory of a player who already has it.

What about decorations which currently cannot be traded after someone receives it (Dxun decorations, one of the Izax decorations as far as I remember?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been wanting a personal loot system without rolling or master loot since FOREVER. The absolute worst feeling I get when playing a flashpoint or operation is seeing a tactical or set piece I need on a boss, only for the group roll to go poorly and it gets given to someone who isn't even playing the class that uses said item. If this is what I think it is and we don't roll for loot, we just get our own loot, I am really looking forward to this. Allowing people to trade what they get for a brief period would be the cherry on top.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been wanting a personal loot system without rolling or master loot since FOREVER. The absolute worst feeling I get when playing a flashpoint or operation is seeing a tactical or set piece I need on a boss, only for the group roll to go poorly and it gets given to someone who isn't even playing the class that uses said item. If this is what I think it is and we don't roll for loot, we just get our own loot, I am really looking forward to this. Allowing people to trade what they get for a brief period would be the cherry on top.

 

What you're describing though isn't even master loot, its the plain 'ol Need/Greed system and if you lose at chance don't start cryin, it was literally as fair as possible.

 

Master Loot is one person deciding who gets what.

Edited by agnahim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, uh, maybe I'm being pessimistic. But if you still only end up giving out one piece of whatever to a random player, who the whole group will know got it, and who can trade it with anyone in the group, won't that just result in that random player basically just taking on the same role as the current "Master Looter"? Unless there's also going to be a general increase in "unique" loot drops, I don't think this is going to reduce friction at all...if anything, it might push things in the other direction.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

 

We wanted to let you all know about an upcoming change that will be happening with Patch 6.3.2.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Currently, SWTOR has a Master Loot option which allows the party leader to choose who receives each gear piece and a Group Loot option where gear must be rolled on by members of the party and highest roll wins. This has led to unwanted friction during the loot process, so we are working to build an efficient process that removes this type of negative player experience and potentially harmful behaviors. In order to achieve this, we will be removing the Master Loot system to bring us closer to what we are calling the Personal Loot system.

 

I don't mind you getting rid of master looter, especially in certain places (i.e. SM ops, or other GF things)... I actually think it's a good thing!

 

HOWEVER, for some things, it's necessary

 

There's quite a few instances where experienced players are willing to bring others in for bosses that rarely get done (i.e. Dreadtooth with stacks), since it doen't matter if they kill it with 16 (or less) or the full 24 people, and letting randoms in will pad the group and maybe make it die slightly faster. Win-win, AND you get to see if there's some budding new PvE'ers you might want to take under your wing.

 

If you can't assure that the person who's supposed to (or at the very least, a guildy) gets the drop however (i.e. the Talisman/mask you're killing Dreadtooth for, since you're heading to Dreadful in an hour), you simply ensure it by not letting anyone you don't fully trust in.

 

The pugs that could have been invited just to do it (for the achievement, never saw it done before, etc) will instead not be allowed to join, or probably not even hear about it, and organizing these will just drop exclusively into discords... Since you don't know if a random will give you something like that (and no one will trust a 'no no, I promise'), you just don't bother taking the chance.

 

That kind of group is how I first found out about Dreadtooth and Ancient Threat... and for both it was clearly stated at the start that the mask/talisman was spoken for. If this system was in effect, I'd not have gotten to try them for another year or more, and had I not gotten deep into raiding/PvE, maybe never.

 

Even as-is the bosses aren't done too often (or Nightmare Pilgrim, and a few others), and a lot of them are really FUN to do, and it's a shame they're getting forgotten about.

 

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

Please don't remove rolling, at least.

 

There's plenty of players that will also get items they didn't want and simply destroy or ignore them instead of trading.

 

Sure, you will let them trade them, but many players won't, either because they ignore chat or because since THEY got [a thing they didn't even want or need] they suddenly feel that you need to otherwise reimburse them for the item, or simply can't find said item between all the other gear they've gotten.

 

Also, there's (albeit, a handful of) unique items that you can't get multiples of. I remember when I accidentally needed on a Tyth module, and forgot I had one. That thing just got deleted since I already had one... so NO ONE got it. What happens when we do Hateful, and I get a crest on a toon that already has one, when we were getting it for others and had no way to pass on them (or have a dedicated person giving them out)?

 

And beyond that, we use rolls to also see who gets the next one, in case of stacks (why are they stacks, and why do they go to ONE person, BTW T_T) or accidental need rolls. Since there'll be no more rolls, how will they know who to give it to?

 

We took a first step towards Personal Loot during the Onslaught expansion where gear was given based on your discipline. This has worked well, promoted a healthy player experience, and we want to continue building upon this system. Patch 6.3.2 will be the next step along that path as we move towards our 10th anniversary.

 

6.3.2 is currently targeted for end of the month/early September.

 

Lastly, turning toward a "personal loot system" is just moving the game ever-more into a solo experience... which is quite annoying.

 

Like I said, I understand removing master looter from pugs (GF groups, etc), but to make everything basically "you do you" is just going to turn more people away. The RNG is also annoying, and takes away player choice. In 4.0, we could plan gear runs, and get gear just fine. In 5.0 we had to shrug as friends sat with 5 pairs of pants and no set bonus, while you despirately needed pants but couldn't get any of theirs (cuz it's 'personal loot').

 

In 6.0 we're bombarded with useless and meaningless gear, making it easy to destroy (with no way to undo) good gear since it all looks nearly identical, and still we don't have the kind of "I need X, it drops from Y, so that's what I'll organize" control we had in 4.0.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

 

We wanted to let you all know about an upcoming change that will be happening with Patch 6.3.2.

 

Currently, SWTOR has a Master Loot option which allows the party leader to choose who receives each gear piece and a Group Loot option where gear must be rolled on by members of the party and highest roll wins. This has led to unwanted friction during the loot process, so we are working to build an efficient process that removes this type of negative player experience and potentially harmful behaviors. In order to achieve this, we will be removing the Master Loot system to bring us closer to what we are calling the Personal Loot system.

 

This means that gear you get will go directly into your inventory. No more rolling, no more choosing who wins items. Part of our modernization efforts include improving the loot experience for all players. We know there are groups who used the Master Loot system to distribute gear. We want to reassure you that with these changes gear will still remain tradeable within your group for 2 hours and chat logs will still record who gear was given to.

 

We took a first step towards Personal Loot during the Onslaught expansion where gear was given based on your discipline. This has worked well, promoted a healthy player experience, and we want to continue building upon this system. Patch 6.3.2 will be the next step along that path as we move towards our 10th anniversary.

 

6.3.2 is currently targeted for end of the month/early September.

 

Does this mean I'll have to actually pick up the JUNK boss drops to see if I won an OEM / deco / rare set piece? This late in 6.x, I guess I don't really need any loot at all anyway.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's quite a few instances where experienced players are willing to bring others in for bosses that rarely get done

 

outside of Dreadtooth on 10 stacks and ancient threat which other instances are you thinking of, cause if it's only those two it's not much of a negative impact considering the vast positive impact that this will have on the PvE community as a whole, if you bring pugs to content, they have the same right to roll on any loot as you have

 

and in reality, how often do people pug for those bosses? once or twice every few months? not a big loss

 

Also, there's (albeit, a handful of) unique items that you can't get multiples of. I remember when I accidentally needed on a Tyth module, and forgot I had one. That thing just got deleted since I already had one... so NO ONE got it. What happens when we do Hateful, and I get a crest on a toon that already has one, when we were getting it for others and had no way to pass on them (or have a dedicated person giving them out)?

 

Although I agree that players who have reached their unique item limit shouldn't be able to receive the item and even if they need on it should be able to actually roll, how is this any different from now? Nobody really uses master looter for gods modules unless its a intentional run, and for that you can, even with the changes, just have people who are not supposed to get it press pass/greed. Same with crests, don't roll need if you already have one, and if you by mistake do that anyway just do like you are able to now and send in a ticket to CS and they will reward it to the right person.

 

Overall, for PvE the removal of master looter is amazing, in particular, to combat ninja looting and similar but in general, the system doesn't really fill any function with how PvE currently works.

Edited by RikuvonDrake
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been wanting a personal loot system without rolling or master loot since FOREVER. The absolute worst feeling I get when playing a flashpoint or operation is seeing a tactical or set piece I need on a boss, only for the group roll to go poorly and it gets given to someone who isn't even playing the class that uses said item. If this is what I think it is and we don't roll for loot, we just get our own loot, I am really looking forward to this. Allowing people to trade what they get for a brief period would be the cherry on top.

 

You're misunderstanding the post. Master Loot is going to be replaced by a behind-the-scenes roll. The RNG is not going anywhere. It will still be one player getting the drop; instead of being decided by the group leader, it will be decided in the future by a hidden roll by the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been wanting a personal loot system without rolling or master loot since FOREVER. The absolute worst feeling I get when playing a flashpoint or operation is seeing a tactical or set piece I need on a boss, only for the group roll to go poorly and it gets given to someone who isn't even playing the class that uses said item. If this is what I think it is and we don't roll for loot, we just get our own loot, I am really looking forward to this. Allowing people to trade what they get for a brief period would be the cherry on top.

 

You know this new system is worse for you?

In the old system worst case everyone rolls for the item and you have a 25% chance to get the item. Best case everyone selects greed/pass and you have a 100% chance to get the item.

In the new system you always have a 25% chance to get the item,so it is at best as good as the old system but could be way worse

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does this mean that loot is completely distributed randomly and need to be traded thereafter? For example, the nightmare mounts (Wings of the Architect, etc.) will go directly to one player's inventory and need to be traded thereafter?

What happens in case the inventory of the player who is intended receive such loot is full?

What about unique items such as Crest of the Dread Master? This cannot go into the inventory of a player who already has it.

What about decorations which currently cannot be traded after someone receives it (Dxun decorations, one of the Izax decorations as far as I remember?)

If your loot is full the item stays "in the boss" until you pick it up,so you have time to get rid of some things in your inventory and then loot the boss again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, uh, maybe I'm being pessimistic. But if you still only end up giving out one piece of whatever to a random player, who the whole group will know got it, and who can trade it with anyone in the group, won't that just result in that random player basically just taking on the same role as the current "Master Looter"? Unless there's also going to be a general increase in "unique" loot drops, I don't think this is going to reduce friction at all...if anything, it might push things in the other direction.

 

Two good points here:

- random player basically just taking on the same role as the current "Master Looter"

- Unless there's also going to be a general increase in "unique" loot drops...it might [increase friction]

 

Talk about not thinking things through (on BW's part) and unintended consequences (for the players)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What negative behavior you had in mind when even thinking about this? You know master loot is the only thing that keeps people willing to invite pugs to some runs. Why would I invite someone to my run I made to get Dreadtooth mask or Brontes Wings for myself or someone else, perhaps a friend, if that random pug that might join could just refuse to trade it to the person the run was created for?

 

I really don't know what drugs you are using, starting from ability pruning, across ignoring players' suggestions regarding crucial bugs in raids, to eventually this pointless change that will only make people less sociable and that will create more mistrust among people.

 

I am so glad I quit this game before all this garbage comes live, even though I still love the game itself.

Edited by DiamondNemke
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would I invite someone to my run I made to get Dreadtooth mask or Brontes Wings

 

please do tell how often you invite random pugs to do brontes nightmare with you, like lmao if this is the best argument against this change we are on a great path

Edited by RikuvonDrake
Link to comment
Share on other sites

please do tell how often you invite random pugs to do brontes nightmare with you, like lmao if this is the best argument against this change we are on a great path

 

While I agree it won't happen with NiM mount drops, there are many things like bosses and ops that will.

 

Hell, I remember filling empty HM TfB spots with a couple randoms while gearing back in mid-5.0... and that was when I and my friends were WAY less capable of under-manning/carrying.

 

There's also Dreadtooth and Dreadful runs where I've seen or personally invited people to runs off fleet and /endgame with a clear "X is spoken for, no experience welcome" type msgs, outlining what they won't be able to get and what they can later /roll on.

 

We had free spots, we were waiting on someone, so why not fill some empty slots with randoms?

 

When this goes live? No way would we do that, since most Dreadtooth/Dreadful runs are made specifically to get an item needed downstream for Hateful (mind you, many times we only need the amulet, and free-roll the pet/masks), and which we're not going to farm with pugs that might force a second or fifth run if we're perfectly capable of under-manning it in one (albeit slightly longer) pull.

 

Personally, a run like this was how I first did Ancient Threat (master loot deco) and a Dreadtooth. I didn't even know bosses like that EXISTED in the game, so doing it was way more rewarding than a deco I didn't even know existed would have been.

 

For me at the time, and most players now, getting into a group padding spots (or doing a chivi run for a friend and padding spots) with randoms is the only chance to get those chivis, even if they can't get the deco/mask/amulet/orb/etc as well (which they'd only have had a small chance to, had it NOT been master looted, anyway, since those are 16 or 24 man bosses).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

neither of the examples that you list become impossible after these changes, working from the assumption that pugs have the same right to roll for loot as anyone else in the group. for people like you a while ago when you were new to the game I am sure they would be happy to give the leader of the group whatever decoration or toy that they received, however, if they wouldn't want to do that, that's a decision they are allowed to take

 

i am not a big fan of reserving loot, i find it very gatekeeping to deny others the right to rewards they have contributed towards, the majority of the player base, myself included, would be happy to give someone an item we don't need if they want it. sure its possible that you get a bad apple and they are lucky enough to win the roll and not trade an item they don't need/have use for, but i don't think the risk of that happening is great enough to ignore the glaring issue with ninja looters abusing master loot

 

and again, these pug dreadtooth and ancient threat runs are highly uncommon anyway

Edited by RikuvonDrake
Link to comment
Share on other sites

neither of the examples that you list become impossible after these changes, working from the assumption that pugs have the same right to roll for loot as anyone else in the group.

[...]

and again, these pug dreadtooth and ancient threat runs are highly uncommon anyway

 

Most of the groups are run to get a certain item.

There's a Hateful sale or Dreadful run in an hour, and the guy who was supposed to bring the orb dipped... etc.

The players organizing can do it alone, and from then on (if this goes through) will... because they're only running it to get the amulet or a mask or an orb (or running both to get an amulet TO get an orb)... with other stuff free rolled later. They won't chance having to do the boss twice or thrice or more to get the damn thing.

 

The pugs simply will stop being invited at all, since the group will be able to do it undermanned (or find other raiders to begrudgingly kill it with them), whereas now they can at least get chivis and learn... maybe get interested enough to research and learn and organize a group just to kill it/get said amulet. New future raiders!

 

I get your stance that everyone should have a chance for a reward, but many would gladly give up the token (the amulet and orb they'll likely never use beyond the animation... or maybe even lose) to get the chivi and get to do the boss. Those that feel differently just don't join the groups, but those that just want to see cool new bosses will be denied the opportunity.

And, despite it not being very kind to point out, the pugs are likely barely helping at all, or dying to the first mechanic. They're not really invited to help kill the boss, but to potentially make it go a smidge faster... or simply because there's time to wait anyway (tank needs a bio break or whatever), and someones feeling like doing some randoms a favor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how many such dreadful runs, or expand it and include dreadtooth and ancient threat have you ran and organized in the last few months, and how many pugs that wouldn't have been invited with these changes did you bring?

 

In the example you use for a hateful crest sale that needs an orb you are looking at 4 extra people (assuming you bring 4 buyers like most other groups), I am confident that in that situation you would primarily look in guild/discord/ask friends before you try to find pugs via fleet

 

i agree with you that as a feature, master looter isn't terrible, it has very niche purposes that a normal player would rarely, or probably never encounter, however its primarily abused as a ninja looting tool and as such its removal is perfectly fine considering it won't have a noticeable impact on other group content

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how many such dreadful runs, or expand it and include dreadtooth and ancient threat have you ran and organized in the last few months, and how many pugs that wouldn't have been invited with these changes did you bring?

 

In the example you use for a hateful crest sale that needs an orb you are looking at 4 extra people (assuming you bring 4 buyers like most other groups), I am confident that in that situation you would primarily look in guild/discord/ask friends before you try to find pugs via fleet

 

i agree with you that as a feature, master looter isn't terrible, it has very niche purposes that a normal player would rarely, or probably never encounter, however its primarily abused as a ninja looting tool and as such its removal is perfectly fine considering it won't have a noticeable impact on other group content

 

You don't bring the randoms to the Hateful.I meant that the cause of the Dreadful/Dreadtooth run that becomes open to pugs is a Hateful sale or Dreadful run (to get an orb FOR a Hateful run/sale) later... so there's a time-crunch and alterior motive vs 'hey, wanna do a dreadtooth?".

 

You bring them to the prep run where you get the items you need to do the Hateful later.

 

I've been away from the game since May, so naming that wouldn't be very fair (none).

 

I remember when I joined a Hateful prog team (I'd killed it a few times before in 5.0, but this was a different group), we'd run a dreadtooth or two every week, and did one or two dreadfuls in that time. Of those, half were 4-manning for a mask, but the other were 5 or 10 stack where we advertised for pugs and got some each time. There were other teams doing stuff, at least one progging Hateful pubside around the same time, and another group that worked on it later.

 

The sales teams (not mine) often pulled pugs into NiM SnV (yes, srsly) sometimes, if they were missing a lockout... though they usually asked for at least having done HM.

 

I'm not saying it's a TON of runs pugs can easily get in on... but it's infinitely more than there are pure random (successful) runs that get made and are open to fleet/endgame people without any loot restrictions tacked on.

I'm also not counting HM raiders (I did quite a few Dreadtooths back when I was at that level) and other people doing similar things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...