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Sorcerer Feedback


JackieKo

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  • Dev Post

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Sorcerer.

 

Please answer the following questions:

 

  • Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Sorcerer? Why or why not?
  • If you have feedback on the different discipline, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  • As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?
  • Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?
  • Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

 

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

 

Thank you!

 

EDIT: Added additional feedback questions.

Edited by JackieKo
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Madness

 

Level 15

- Death Brand! I'm not sure that the 5% increase makes this worth it, but a really cool idea for a morph to Death Field

 

Level 20

- Why is Cloud Mind optional? Once again there is so much ambiguity to what you are doing with threat in 7.0, for threat reduction abilities to be missing, optional, etc, is very confusing to me that something I would expect to be a standard ability on all classes.

- Finish them is a pretty cool morph to speed up rotations and add more burstiness to madness

 

Choices for levels 30,35,50,60 are all fine, there doesn't appear to be anything that really stands out as impossible to me.

 

Level 70

- Extricate and Force Barrier choice, oof that's rough as well. I would rather see Force Barrier moved into the choices for level 50 and move Sith Defiance up to 70.

 

Overall again playability seems fine to me, I don't feel like you've broken the spec, but there are some choices that I think are unnecessary given the large number of 'utility' passives in the mid levels. It feels like you are forcing experienced players to make difficult and uncomfortable choices about their build, where I'd think you want us to be excited to choose from the different options at each level milestone.

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bye bye pvp sorcs XD all our defensives removed yet mara can keep all theres lmao

 

Were you sleeping when they brought Sents to PTS? They have to pick between Camo, Undying Rage and Blade Blitz. Also Obfuscation (and it's related 75% force/tech resist utility) are completely gone as well. Marauders are definitely not keeping all their defensives, they're losing a bunch of them.

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Were you sleeping when they brought Sents to PTS? They have to pick between Camo, Undying Rage and Blade Blitz. Also Obfuscation (and it's related 75% force/tech resist utility) are completely gone as well. Marauders are definitely not keeping all their defensives, they're losing a bunch of them.

 

They're also still the only class without any kind of access to a hardstun. Still haven't gotten an explanation on that one.

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Here is the textwall with my thoughts on madness sith sorcerer

 

Level 15 Unrelenting Affliction might be what I go with since the idea of a deathmark refreshing itself is nice. Death Brand doesn't seem to be that useful to me as the appeal of death field is that its an AOE, the fact the deathmarks remain is nice but the extra 5% lifesteal isn't that useful IMO though the extra internal and elemental damage is nice but not sure turning my sorc into a single target sorc is what I want to do. Sustained Corruption is interesting, 1% health would be like 15% health recovered per rotation which is nice, might go with this one as well.

Level 20 Cloud Mind should be a baseline ability, every DPS should have a threat drop. Overloaded Strike is nice, turning lightning strike into an AOE enhances the AOE damage aspect of Madness Sith Sorcerer however its sad that wrath doesn't seem to insta cast it. Finish Them also reminds of the ultra violet tactical item for Snipers as it deals all your DOTs damage at once. I can see this being an interesting option for me to take in 7.0 for my Sorcerer.

Level 30 critical movement is good for those that want extra mobility since it lowers the CD for force speed. Creeping end is what I'll go with since I want those reckless charges faster. Downfall also sounds promising, even if creeping terror consumes two charges instead of one though I think I'll go with creeping end.

Level 35 much like with Sentinel I believe the raid buff should remain baseline. Overwhelming Force seems useless to me as I use demolish and not crushing darkness. Corrupted defense is a good way to make sorcerers less squishy, if it wasn't for the raid buff being a choice I'd take it.

Level 50 I'll go with lightning barrier for PvE, since at least that way I can damage any NPCs that attack me. The Sith Defiance perk of 3% damage reduction doesn't interest me and neither does Backlash.

Level 60 Emersion, no question for me. Extra root breaks is what I usually go for in all my classes. The other two passives are useful, Unnatural Vigor if you want more constant self-heals and a nice protective buff or Surging Speed if you want to reduce CDs across the board.

Level 70 Extrictation should be baseline for healers IMO, Volt Rush is not something I ever needed as madness assassin so I won't miss. Leaving Force barrier as the only real choice that is useful to how I play sorcerer.Level 80 Force Mobility which lets me cast some abilities while moving is the only one I use currently, I appreciate the mobility it gives me especially in regards to force leech so I don't have to stand around casting it. Corrupted Flesh is good if you want to be more defensive against periodic cooldowns, and conspiring force's effect of turning affliction into a slow is something I can only see being useful in PvP so I won't take it.

Overall not bad it still feels like a sorcerer my only complain is the lack of a baseline threat reducer and raid buff, but the core rotation is still the same. There is more synergy with abilities, though I'd say assassin feels like it has more, between the cooldown reducers and whatnot.

 

 

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Were you sleeping when they brought Sents to PTS? They have to pick between Camo, Undying Rage and Blade Blitz. Also Obfuscation (and it's related 75% force/tech resist utility) are completely gone as well. Marauders are definitely not keeping all their defensives, they're losing a bunch of them.

 

i don't think you get the meaning of what im trying to say

 

1 even if mara would lose All of the staded skills they would still be in a better spot then sage/sorc is atm

2 this also like snipers losing there oribital this prolly sorcs most iconic ability aside from TB, force lightning (maybe mini bubble)

3 imagine having to pick at 70 between Undiying Rage , Saber Ward , Cloak of pain, or Leap

its obvious you would take the first pick but its still absolutly awfull to have to make the choice keep in mind we are also losing our ONLY other defensive in cloud mind unless we take it

our selfhealing is the worst out of the ofhealers

and we have not left the bottom 4 for dps classes for years for lightning , while maddness recently went below lighting while bioware claimed this was because we had to mutch utility yet after this what uitily is even left ?

nor do people think about the fact that we (maybe pt's) need our setbonus and tactical the second most out of all the classes after merc if we get replacements that are even a few % worse or less flexible we will fall so low we will go below arsenal/gunnery that without apex Cannot be played in nim

considering the sheer stupitidy of the skills chosen i do not think BW is capable of making sets that improve out situation

 

ps

'we are also the second easiest class to kill already and certain comps can ToD us if they do it correct'

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Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing an Sorcerer? Why or why not?

No. If mind maze is gone, i am going with it. Tell you why, Gree. I solo ten years. I have two guild ships on both factions SOLOED. My pub side guild is level 5 or 7 soloed.

 

I can't solo the PVP GREE in the south of Ilum properly without my rotation . I CAN CURRENTLY SUCCESSFULLY DO THIS CONTENT SOLO. I CAN CC GROUP OF 3 OR MORE WITH THIS ROTATION. I HAVE HONED IT TEN YEARS AND ABOUT TO POP LEGENDARY REP. DO NOT TAKE THIS AWAY. I AVOID PEOPLE AND GROUPS FOR A REASON. that is probably clearly evident here by now.

 

I cc them with mind maze, (first enemy), then i DECLOAK, then i get hit by second enemy, then i COMBAT CLOAK,

then i mind maze him, by then either 1) first enemy is aggro'ed and i used second COMBAT CLOAK with proper RELIC FOR THAT. or 2) I can CC with force lift I CAN LOSE THAT ABILITY NO ONE CARES. but i need my mind maze if you take away that force lift.

 

DO NOT UNDER A N Y CIRCUMSTANCES TAKE AWAY SPIN KICK. I start my whole rotation with that to CC enemy 0 in the first place who was CLOAKED. GET IT?

 

 

there you go.

 

FOUNDER, TESTER, ON SWTOR.

FOUNDER, TESTER, DEVELOPER ON MY OWN GAMES.

Edited by responsiblet
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i don't think you get the meaning of what im trying to say

 

1 even if mara would lose All of the staded skills they would still be in a better spot then sage/sorc is atm

 

'we are also the second easiest class to kill already and certain comps can ToD us if they do it correct'

You guys got it all wrong, my man up here has a point, I mean look how squishy and easy to kill sorc is.

Edited by Cavtarus
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Wall of text INC

 

Lightning

 

Overwhelming force - shock and lightning strike have a 25% chance to make your next crushing darkness auto crit

 

Not a fan as it could lead to a bit of a wonky part in the rotation , perhaps change the auto crit to a instant cast ? mainly to prevent having to delay the crushing in certain scenario's , and make the shorter cast time from lightning flash a auto crit instead then ? i feels like this one makes that proc a bit weird, perhaps causing delays in its use ( sorc rotation currently is fine don't try to deviate to mutch from it in my opnion maybe an extra instant cast or something is more fitting for the overal feel for the spec.

 

Madness

 

Death Brand - replaces death field. Death Field becomes a single target ability with 5% increased lifesteal and applys deathmarks I get the idea and i like it ! sadly it does seem rather underwelming unless you are makeing it the only version to apply death marks ? this would require more number tuning but i do hope this gets buffed and made viable as it will make maddness more fun to play on single target (for me)

 

Finish Them - shock finishes all directly applied DoTs on the target dealing all their damage at once. Shock's cooldown is increased by 12 seconds YES Amazing skill LOVE it a very skill full ability that rewards proper use of skills , it has some wierd repercussions as will the dots consume deathmarks ? will there be a CAP to the damage otherwise this might be to strong for pvp ,

 

Overloaded Strike - replaces lightning strike. Overloaded strike deals damage to an additional target within 10m

i get it but i would Strongly advice against this Link it to Weaken mind/Corruption (mainly to prevent accidental hits on stuff you don't want to hit without being force to swap out of the spec mid operation

 

Creeping end - once every 5 seconds, applying creeping terror reduces the cooldown of recklessness by 2 seconds Potential for fun needs a tiny bit of a change imo make it based of the damage tick of creeping terror reducing the cd bye a way lower ammount 0.5 0.2 but make it EVERY tick grating a massive increase when you can spread the dot

 

Down fall - creeping terror consumes two deathmarks each tick to deal increased damage

boring but usefull hope it stays

 

Overwhelming force - shock and lightning strike have a 25% chance to make your next crushing darkness auto crit

Works Better Here but still Not a fan put it on force lightning and up it to 35 and it would be quite usefull

 

 

Corrupted Defence - dealing crit damage with your DoTs increases damage reduction by 5% stacking up to 3 times Please keep this ! madness Needs this at the minimum so happy if this stays

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Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing an Sorcerer? Why or why not?

No. If mind maze is gone, i am going with it. Tell you why, Gree. I solo ten years. I have two guild ships on both factions SOLOED. My pub side guild is level 5 or 7 soloed.

 

I can't solo the PVP GREE in the south of Ilum properly without my rotation . I CAN CURRENTLY SUCCESSFULLY DO THIS CONTENT SOLO. I CAN CC GROUP OF 3 OR MORE WITH THIS ROTATION. I HAVE HONED IT TEN YEARS AND ABOUT TO POP LEGENDARY REP. DO NOT TAKE THIS AWAY. I AVOID PEOPLE AND GROUPS FOR A REASON. that is probably clearly evident here by now.

 

I cc them with mind maze, (first enemy), then i DECLOAK, then i get hit by second enemy, then i COMBAT CLOAK,

then i mind maze him, by then either 1) first enemy is aggro'ed and i used second COMBAT CLOAK with proper RELIC FOR THAT. or 2) I can CC with force lift I CAN LOSE THAT ABILITY NO ONE CARES. but i need my mind maze if you take away that force lift.

 

DO NOT UNDER A N Y CIRCUMSTANCES TAKE AWAY SPIN KICK. I start my whole rotation with that to CC enemy 0 in the first place who was CLOAKED. GET IT?

 

 

there you go.

 

FOUNDER, TESTER, ON SWTOR.

FOUNDER, TESTER, DEVELOPER ON MY OWN GAMES.

 

 

Think you have the wrong class. Sorcerer's do not have mind maze nor spin kick. That is an assassin class.

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Finally able to test my usual main - Lightning Sorc and my first comment is I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER! :p

That ability interface is poisoning my eyes. It's awful, too small and follows no logic known to humans - I know it's a work-in-progress but still...

 

Here's my (hopefully) constructive feedback from a soloer story player/frequent unranked PvPer with a copied level 75 character boosted to level 80:

 

Initial Impression: Lightning on the PTS doesn't seem too bad for storying about with a companion. I still feel like I'm playing a sorcerer and more importantly, lightning feels like lightning, however:

 

Level 15 Tier: is the active choice for Chain Lightning supposed to upgrade/update your current ability? When I pick Halted Offensive, I'm given an additional ability clogging up my action bar so in effect have 2 Chain Lightning icons that do different things (the original and the new version). This makes no sense. I ended up taking on of this passives in this tier to avoid the double icon on ability bar madness.

 

Level 20 Tier: Overloaded Strike is a choice to replace Lightning Strike at tier/level 20 however you've also given us Lightning Bolt which replaces Lightning Strike at tier/level 55 (there is no choice in this one though). Why are there two different ability tree options for Lightning Strike? In the same tree you have Finish Them as an option which gives what seems to be an additional ability BUT it has the same icon as Shock (so more confusion). Should selecting Finish Them turn Shock into a 1.41s cast ability or should selecting Finish Them give us an another ability? Or does is Finish Them supposed to put a debuff on the target which enhances Shock? If so, surely that should be a passive as 1.41 cast to put a debuff is a bit much.

In addition to get the benefit of Finish Them, we require Force Slow. THERE IS NO FORCE SLOW FOR LIGHTNING SORCERERS for this PTS (see below) and none of our passives apply a slow effect to the target. This tier is irritating. I ended up choosing Cloud Mind to avoid the confusion the other 2 abilities were causing me and taking Cloud Mind is a waste of time for soloers/PvPers.

 

Level 30 Tier: The actives for Thundering Blast (Insulating Blast and Dark Embrace), both give you an additional ability on your action bar which has the same icon as your original Thundering Blast. Sure these should update your existing Thundering Blast with the newly selected ability rather than giving you another icon/ability? It's confusing and annoying and I ended up taking the passive (Off Balance) just to avoid this nonsense.

 

Level 35 Tier: this tier is the most annoying for me. Unlimited Power should remain a base ability for ALL sorcerers. This should not be a choice. As a soloer (and in PvP) Overcharged Barrier is useful for me BUT so is Overwhelming Force. Because you've removed a couple of our big defensive abilities (force slow, instant whirlwind option) I had to choose Overcharged Barrier over Overwhelming Force. This tier needs a rethink as it contains too many of our required abilities.

 

Level 50 Tier: this one's fine. Easy choice for me; I'll always choose Lightning Barrier over Sith Defiance or Backlash.

 

Level 60 Tier: Also fine. All three have their uses but the most useful to me is Surging Speed. I can easily leave Unnatural Vigor and Emersion.

 

Level 70 Tier: This is the tier of doom if you do any PvP. I can just ignore Volt Rush as I don't use that ability with my lightning sorcs who have the gathering storm set with the Stormwatch Tactical (it's not even on my action bars). The choice is between Extrication and Force Barrier. The only choice I'm making will be Force Barrier (sorry Hutt Ball!!). In all seriousness Extrication and Force Barrier should be core sorcerer abilities. Or consider moving Extricate to the Level 80 Tier so we can pick both. NOTE: I do use the Jedi version of Volt Rush - Telekinetic Blitz - on my Sage as she has the set bonus & tactical to boost it. Whether I take Volt/Blitz on her will depend on the available gear/tacticals we get at 80.

 

These Are Bad: No Force Slow and No instant Whirlwind utility. RETURN THESE PLEASE. I always take the instant whirlwind utility as I use whirlwind a lot when soloing and in PvP (also very handy in a LFG FP when someone aggroes the whole room).

Edited by Sarova
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To add onto this, Assassins do have Mind Trap (which is the Assassin equivalent of Mind Maze). Not sure about Spinning Kick.

 

Spinning Kick / Spike is an ability you can choose, alongside Overload and another buff that I don't remember being very appealing. For tank spec it's staying as it currently is, but it is being built into Maul or Leeching Strike, when used from stealth, for DPS specs and also doesn't last quite as long.

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I am a subscriber, generally a story player with few group sessions or flashpoints and almost no PVP play. I enjoy making characters and running them through the story and doing daily and weekly heroics. My primary preference is to play the lightning sorcerer.

 

Initial Notes:

Level 10

Basic, no surprises so far.

 

Level 15

Minor choices, not impressed with the decisions made. Lost Tempest Mastery utility for Force Storm as an option as far as I can see. What is here is (to me) wasted choices for minimal gain no matter which one I choose.

 

Level 20

Select one of two different attacks, or get Cloud Mind. Lose a defensive ability if you don't choose Cloud Mind here. Again, not a fan and really questioning the decisions made.

 

level 30

Minor choices, not impressed. Really, these options are not improvements. It looks more like a wasted level of choices. Drop all three and put Extrication here.

 

Level 50

I get Lightning Barrier about 14 levels late, and I have to give up Backlash to get it. Right now I have both. For me this is unacceptable.

 

Level 60

I now have to choose between a Defensive, a cleansing power and a cooldown assist. Additionally, since the next set forces me into another exceptionally poor choice, the cooldown choice is almost worthless to me.

 

Level 70

A choice between Extrication, Volt Rush and Force Barrier, all of which I use. This is the most unacceptable set of choices yet. Right now I get all three and use them. How does this improve my experience?

 

Level 80

Are you kidding me? Force Mobility is moved to 80? Really?

 

"Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing an Sorcerer? Why or why not?"

As with the Sniper before, while it has the basic feel of a lightning sorcerer, missing key abilities due to the poor decisions made on the redesign do not make it as enjoyable for me. Running the basic 270 gear on Onderon I had my lunch eaten several times in fights that I normally have won. You add 5 levels and fill the space with a single option at 80 wherein we have to choose one of three abilities, three we get all of with the current system and five levels less. Why did you even add five levels if you had no plans to add abilities? Moving abilities around like you have appears more like rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic's band played on.

 

The limitations you have invested in this redesign do not enhance my enjoyment of the game. I won't plead with you to discard the changes because you obviously have generally baked them in and are just testing for minor adjustment. Which is sad. Really, this is where testing should have been 2 or 3 months ago. This initial class testing should already be done on the PTS. We should be testing the other half of the combat style announcement now (the part everyone actually was excited about) instead of this. The fact that you are rolling this level of testing out this late in the development process means that what we see is inevitable and we have to hope for the best. Which is not a recommendation in any way. This is a poor direction to take to accomplish your goal. I really hope that the new storyline is substantially better than the design and decision making that I am seeing on the PTS right now. I was excited about the expansion and the combat style announcement, but now I am just resigned to the fact that it appears the developers have lost sight of the ball and (in my opinion) are running way behind where they should be.

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Despite not being a sorc main and not getting into the nitty gritty, I would just like to say that sorc pull has always been a spec I thought was the essence of sorc, and I'd hate to see it gone (since few will take it over the other choices... unless it's base for healer?).

 

But more to why I posted (despite this being the SORC forum guys >_>);

 

Spinning Kick / Spike is an ability you can choose, alongside Overload and another buff that I don't remember being very appealing. For tank spec it's staying as it currently is, but it is being built into Maul or Leeching Strike, when used from stealth, for DPS specs and also doesn't last quite as long.

 

Spike/spinning kick is only an option for tank spec. DPS have overload in that spot, and overload for tank is replace with shroud for DPS (making DPS options shroud or whirlwind or severeing slash).

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Madness choices

 

Death Brand(10) It's not that impressive. Increase the critical damage bonus of Death Brand by 20-30% via discipline.

Overloaded Strike(20) I don't get it. Overloaded Strike doesn't have any procs or discipline passives associated with it. Force Storm is way better for AOE.

 

Overhelming Force(35) Why Shock and Lightning Strike and why it's only 25%? Doesn't make any sense, any of it. Replace it with Affliction or something. Maybe also merge it with a Ticking Force Bomb(it's useless tactical anyway).

 

Volt Rush(70) LOL. I see no reason why would anyone ever pick this. Merge it with Endless Offensive(Volt Rush deals 10% more damage, Energize now stack up to 3 times, Force Speed recharges two VR charges), buff The Rushdown tactical(should also increase the critical chance of Volt Rush by 100% Powerlode-style). Right now it's 2000% useless.

 

Extrication(70) Merge it with a Healing Hand(tactical) and/or 3.x era unreleased sorc set-bonus(Extrication places a Static Barrier on the target even if the target already has the Deionized effect).

 

 

Madness baseline

Force Storm should build stacks of Wrath and Fulminating Current. No more Force Lightning in pure AOE situations.

 

Overall again playability seems fine.

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My first and main character is my Sorcerer and I've played every spec in every iteration of the game since I started playing, so, here are my thoughts!

 

All my testing was done without using tacticals of any kind because we still have not received confirmation on which tacticals are being baked into the base classes, which are staying and which are being removed. As such I think that it is completely pointless testing with tacticals which may or may not even exist in 7.0. If this changes during a later PTS stage, I will begin using them again.

 

Discipline independent choices:

It seems like the only ability that has been completely removed is force slow, but due to some abilities doing conditional damage based on the target being slowed - this feels more like a bug. If it's gone I won't really miss it, especially since both dps specs already have means to slow and/or root targets with rotational abilities.

 

Ability tree opt in abilities are cloud mind and unlimited power - both expected. It's nice to see cloud mind gain the 25% damage reduction baseline, but echoing other posts on the forums, we need to know the dev's plans for threat in 7.0. If tanks aren't going to be generating far higher amounts of threat, dps characters not having threat drops baseline makes no sense whatsoever and this will simply give the illusion of choice as those characters will be forced to take the "opt in" threat drop. Unlimited power I was expecting, honestly I'm surprised that the raid buffs are still in the game at all.

 

Level 70 choice is between extrication (most useful for healers in all content and PvP hutt ball), volt rush (garbage ability I'll never pick) and force barrier (absolutely mandatory to survive in PvP).

 

 

 

Level 50

  • Lightning barrier - same as live, barrier deals some damage to attackers
  • Sith Defiance - 3% flat damage reduction is always nice, even more so without force barrier baseline
  • Backlash - same as live, static barrier soft stuns nearby targets

This provides an interesting choice between flat DR, some extra damage or utility via soft cc.

 

Level 60

  • Unnatural vigor - the same as on live, more frequent and bigger self heals is nice.
  • Emersion - same as live, the only way to negate movement impairing effects.
  • Surging speed - reduces the cooldown of speed, slow and barrier + 100% movement during polarity shift.

Surging speed's 30 second barrier cooldown reduction should be baked into force barrier, otherwise I can see surging speed becoming the default choice here.

 

Level 70

  • Extrication - this doesn't matter for dps, but I constantly use this ability as a healer to pull allies out of trouble.
  • Volt Rush - I will never ever take this ability, it does irrelevant damage compared to any other ability and requires 3 full gcds to do as much damage as other abilities can do in 1 or 2.
  • Force Barrier - as mentioned above, this should have the 30 second cooldown reduction baked in and/or enduring bastion heals. Force Barrier is the combat style's only "oh no" button and is the most obvious choice at level 70.

Extrication should not be an opt in ability for healers. Healers should have a buffed form of extrication baseline and instead have either of their stuns placed into the level 70 slot.

 

Level 80

  • Force Mobility - same as live, very useful for mobility.
  • Corrupted Flesh - 15% periodic damage reduction is nice, but mobility is likely better in most cases.
  • Conspiring force - practically useless for healers and lightning as lightning spec already slows for 30% with lightning bolt, their spammable filler. Also borderline useless for madness due to creeping terror's root.

The choice is between force mobility and corrupted flesh, more likely force mobility.

 

 

Corruption

Corruption has gained the one thing I've been missing while healing in PvE content - the ability to tech further into aoe healing. This is huge and allows for group compositions with multiple sorcerers, one who focuses on single target and one who focuses on aoe healing.

 

 

 

 

Level 15

  • Sustained Corruption - dark infusion now provides a HoT lasting 12 seconds and healing about as much as resurgence per tick. Love it.
  • Rally - dark infusion heals one additional target within 10m. Operatives heal everyone nearby if they use their heal on themselves, Sorcerers straight up heal one extra target from up to 30m away. Great for healing two targets at once.
  • Haste - casting dark infusion makes your next dark infusion an instant cast. This allows for some huge burst healing with dark infusion + instant dark infusion + resurgence + empowered dark heal.

These are some great passives and provide a very meaningful decision between sustain, aoe and burst. This is how all ability specific passives should function.

 

Level 20

  • Dark speed - same as live, not really useful outside some PvP instances. Would be much more interesting if revivification granted bonus speed instead.
  • Cloud mind - now includes 25% DR and is the only way to get a threat drop. Sorcs have one fairly weak defensive cooldown baseline now, so this is almost mandatory.
  • Dark power - dark heal has a 50% chance to cause resurgence to tick twice. Not worth taking imo - you use dark heal once per normal healing rotation as corruption and a 50% chance to heal another 3k or so is not worth it over a threat drop and active DR.

Cloud mind is the default choice. Dark speed could be useful if it was on another more useful ability such as resurgence or revivification. Dark power isn't good enough even at a 50% chance since it's used once every 10 seconds - changing it to remove the deionized effect on a target once per x seconds could be interesting instead.

 

Level 30

  • Dark resurgence - innervate spreads resurgence to nearby allies. YES. This is incredible. Love it.
  • Polarized - innervate does a whopping 3% more healing...only during polarity shift. This is frankly terrible. I'd change this to - innervate does not go on cooldown when consuming a recklessness charge or something similar to provide a high burst window.
  • Corrupted bastion - innervate builds 3 stacks that increase dark infusion and dark heal healing by 3%. This is ok and a better choice than polarized, but a more interesting option would be for innervate to cause resurgence to generate extra ticks. That way we get a choice between burst, sustain and aoe!

 

Level 35

  • Unhindered resolve - up to 6% damage reduction sounds nice, but is far lower than both madness and lightning's equivalent damage reduction stacking passives, which go up to 15%. This should be at the same level as the dps specs. Sorc healers are already very squishy and this doesn't help enough.
  • Deaths embrace - very niche ability, if someone dies with resurgence your next dark infusion or reanimation is an instant cast. I don't seem myself ever taking this. I don't like the idea of playing around with reanimation as it could massively tip the balance in favour of one healing spec over another in PvE content. It also does nothing in PvP. I'd redesign this entirely. Maybe grant auto crits for certain abilities or bonus healing when the target is below 50% hp?
  • Unlimited power - yay raid buffs...I don't see why they are still in the game when raids are being rebalanced.

Even though it is a bit too weak right now, unhindered resolve is the default choice for me. Unlimited power and deaths embrace are far too niche to take in most situations.

 

 

 

 

 

Lightning

Lightning feels more or less the same, but with the ability to tech into higher aoe or single target damage - or gain even more damage reduction, up to 32% with one of thundering blast's new passives. This gives a lot more sustained negation, but lightning is still very weak to burst - even more so without force barrier baseline.

 

 

 

 

Level 15

  • Forbidden Knowledge - chain lightning crits buff your self heal and reduce its cooldown. I don't feel like this is necessary considering the amount of damage reduction the spec gets and causes overlap with madness which is supposed to be the sustain spec. I'd redesign this to grant a different type of buff - maybe crits with chain lightning reduce recklessness's cooldown?
  • Halted offensive - chain lightning affects one target but does more damage. The amount of damage it deals doesn't seem high enough to warrant being relegated to a single target.
  • Suppressive current - nice aoe buff.

I'm not a massive fan of these passives compared to corruption which had a more obvious sustain, burst and aoe centric approach. Forbidden knowledge should be redesigned imo while halted offensive needs some numbers tweaks.

 

Level 20

  • Overloaded strike - lightning strike/lightning bolt hit an additional target. Nice in theory but very niche and in most aoe situations you'll be spamming force storm anyway. Works great if you come up against two targets though.
  • Cloud mind - now includes 25% DR and is the only way to get a threat drop. Sorcs have one fairly weak defensive cooldown baseline now, so this is almost mandatory. Same as with corruption.
  • Finish them - this is why force slow missing has to be a bug. You don't get lightning bolt til level 55, so you don't really have any way to take advantage of force shock dealing more damage to slowed targets. This also doesn't work on any boss since they are immune to cc.

There is only one option here, cloud mind. Overloaded strike is ok but not great, finish them is too niche and likely a PvP only ability.

 

Level 30

  • Off balance - once per 9 seconds (the cooldown of thundering blast) it immobilises a target for 2 seconds. Please no, I want less slowing and immobilising and cc effects in the game, not more...
  • Insulating blast - 12% damage reduction from stacking thundering blast is huge.
  • Dark embrace - thundering blast deals more damage to stunned targets. Again a niche CC reliant passive, not useful in PvE.

In PvP the choices are more meaningful but in PvE, 2 of them flat out won't ever work. PvP needs less stuns and movement impairing effects, especially as melee classes are losing tonnes of dcds and stuns. Redesign Off balance to instead deal AoE damage just like focused burst does for guardian and sentinel. Change dark embrace to instead deal more damage if crushing darkness is present on the target.

 

Level 35

  • Overwhelming force - a 25% chance to cause an auto crit on a dot ability isn't great. You spam lightning strike a fair amount, but you also only use shock when crushing darkness is already present - so this ability is counter intuitive. Instead, lightning strike/ lightning bolt could reduce the cooldown of recklessness by x seconds each cast.
  • Overcharged barrier - more healing received and better static barrier is really nice considering it is the only base dcd.
  • Unlimited power - yay raid buffs...I don't see why they are still in the game when raids are being rebalanced.

Overwhelming force needs a redesign to be useful. I don't like raid buffs and overcharged barrier is the obvious choice right now.

 

 

 

Madness

Madness self healing can reach very high levels - perhaps too high in aoe scenarios. The amount of self sustain this spec can reach is amazing but just like lightning, it is still weak to high burst without force barrier.

 

 

 

 

Level 15

  • Unrelenting Affliction - 50% chance for deathmarks to not be consumed. Great for sustained dps even though it's not by that much and only affects your DoTs.
  • Death Brand - replaces death field, death field becomes single target and gives a measly 5% more lifesteal. Not worth ever taking considering death field is your only way to spread your DoTs. Even in single target scenarios, unrelenting affliction seems to do more damage. Change this so that Death field now requires a primary target, deals AoE damage as normal, but deals more damage + higher lifesteal vs the primary target only.
  • Sustained corruption - this is stupidly fun if op in AoE situations. I didn't need a healing companion when using this passive (even in story flashpoints). Finally madness has the sustained lifesteal it has always dreamed of, but it might be a bit too much. A way of balancing this out could be to only activate the 1% max health heal when deathmarks are consumed by crushing darkness and demolish. This keeps the strength of the passive, but only lets it work vs one target. Wouldn't mind if it stayed like this but it is a bit much.

Sustained corruption is the obvious choice. Unrelenting affliction is ok but a not that powerful. Death brand could do with a redesign such as the one I suggested, or a substantial buff to its single target damage since you are not only giving up AoE damage, but your only source of DoT spread.

 

Level 20

  • Overloaded strike - lightning strike/lightning bolt hit an additional target. Nice in theory but very niche and in most aoe situations you'll be spamming force storm anyway. Works great if you come up against two targets though.
  • Cloud mind - now includes 25% DR and is the only way to get a threat drop. Sorcs have one fairly weak defensive cooldown baseline now, so this is almost mandatory. Same as with corruption.
  • Finish them - shock finishes all active DoTs on the target and deals their damage at once - similar to operative and sniper tacticals. Fun but Shock's cooldown should be reset if the target is killed within x seconds. (Testing showed that dots did not consume deathmarks when their damage was dealt which somewhat reduces its effectiveness)

Cloud mind is once again the likely default choice, though Finish Them does have interesting potential. The cooldown of shock should be rest if the target dies soon after being hit.

 

 

Level 30

  • Critical movement - if creeping terror's initial hit crits, the cd of force speed is reduced by 3 seconds. Fishing for crits to reduce force speed cooldown isn't great. This could instead cause creeping terror to boost your own movement speed for several seconds after activating it, once per 9 seconds.
  • Creeping end - applying creeping terror once per 5 seconds reduces recklessness's cooldown by 2 seconds. I really really hate the direction that has been chosen for creeping terror. It is a 18 second long DoT, yet this passive makes you want to spam it every 5 seconds - effectively neutering your DPS, just for a couple seconds of recklessness cooldown? Instead, creeping terror crits should reduce recklessness's cooldown by the same amount.
  • Downfall - creeping terror consumes two deathmarks to deal increased damage. This is the only interesting passive to me as it actually does something without needing you to constantly reapply it.

I'm really disappointed by the creeping terror passives. You should not be reapplying DoTs before they have expired (or near enough for madness due to a wonky rotation). Both critical movement and creeping end need reworking so that you aren't just constantly spamming creeping terror over and over and over, completely disrupting your rotation for practically no gain. Recklessness isn't even that great an OCD as this is a DoT spec, not a burst spec. More force speeds is useful in PvP, but so is doing anything other than spamming creeping terror. The creeping terror passives should actively work alongside the current rotation like with Downfall, not completely break the rotation for the sake of fishing for crits on recasts.

 

Level 35

  • Overwhelming force - a 25% chance to cause an auto crit on a dot ability isn't great. You don't use lightning strike enough for it to matter, and you don't use shock in your rotation at all - so this ability is counter intuitive and has no real place in the rotation outside a 1 in 4 chance your next demolish does slightly more damage - an ability you use once per rotation. The focus of this passive could instead be on the Wrath stacks generated by force lightning, with each stack granting a 25% increased crit hit chance for one of your abilities (stacking 4 times) - essentially granting you an auto crit similar to how thundering blast auto crits targets with affliction.
  • Corrupting Defence - this is the obvious choice. Finally madness has a way to gain stacking DR! Love it.
  • Unlimited power - yay raid buffs...I don't see why they are still in the game when raids are being rebalanced.

Overwhelming force needs a redesign to be useful. I don't like raid buffs and Corrupting Defence absolutely is the obvious choice right now. 15% DR on a squishy discipline is amazing especially combined with increased lifesteal from deathmarks.

 

 

 

 

 

Overall there are some good passives in here, but also a lot of bad or redundant ones that need redesigning. I'm also confused as to why Sorcerer retained both whirlwind and electrocute as base abilities - but if they are to have one single not great defensive baseline, it kind of makes sense. I'd prefer to have force barrier be a baseline ability and move instant cast whirlwind up to the level 70 choice. Force Barrier is THE defining defensive cooldown for Sorcerers and Sages and without it, they just die to any form of burst. I'm happy with how the pruning has turned out for the most part, but still confused as to why a threat drop is being considered an opt in ability.

 

 

Something I've really noticed with the ability tree is that your first two discipline specific abilities get 3 dedicated passives. But, your last two discipline specific abilities do not. Further, we go from having an ability tree choice every 5 levels between levels 15 to 40, then skipping to 50, 55, 60, skipping to 70 then up to 80. This means that we have the space for the second two discipline specific abilities to gain their own sets of passives/morphs, so why don't we!?

 

For example, death field gets unrelenting affliction, death brand and sustained corruption at level 15. Force Leech and Demolish get nothing. Is there a reason why there are some 10 level gaps and no ability morphs for the last two discipline specific abilities? It seems clear to me that there should be something there at level 45 and another set of ability specific choices at level 60 (moving the current level 60 passives up to 65). This would provide the players with even more ways to customize their combat styles to be different from each other and would offer ways to include current mandatory tacticals into the ability tree. For example, Demolish could gain a passive that causes it to affect all nearby targets with a deathmark - the same as a current tactical (though maybe nerfed to just initial damage). It could then also gain a burst option where it deals all its damage in one hit consuming any remaining deathmarks for extra bonus damage, and a sustained damage option that increases its duration and does something else.

 

 

In general, all the specs play more or less the same as they do on live, but with better self sustain options and the ability to tech into higher single target damage. Corruption feels amazing and as someone who frequently heals as a Corruption Sorcerer in ops, I can't wait for these changes - but some of them, just like the other specs, need a bit of reworking to be considered useful.

Force barrier should be baseline rather than whirlwind as it is their only powerful defensive ability besides self healing and stacking DR. Volt rush is still terrible and I won't use it or miss it. I've said my piece about threat drops and I'm sure everyone else will mention it too.

Edited by LordCamTheGreat
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i think this whole idea is garbage. if u wanted change you shouldve just tweaked the actual skill tree and leave us choice with the utilities we have available now, not remove them completely and not replacing them with this bastardized version that isnt really a choice at all. extrication or force barrier? as if that isnt clear as crystal.

 

assassin tank seems pretty well balanced but sorcerer no way, something always feels missing - something that we currently have available on live for all specs.

 

some among you devs really need to get into the game and actively play the classes so you know how not to mess it up and whats needed - as mentioned sin tank is pretty well balanced so overall good job there, not perfect but quite well thought out anyway, but my god some choices are like from someone who never touched those classes.

Edited by Darittha
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Feel free to hire me to fix your "over whleming" typos.

 

It's no surprise that people are loving the AoE Resurgence. It's op in the live-state of the game. Not sure how it will be after all this, but man oh man is it nice to have and strong.

 

It looks like it's healing the Base Heal PER TICK, instead of the hot portion tho. First-boosted is 1700 a tick... for 15 seconds. Or something?

 

ALSO

Fix your variance. My goodness. Why does a Heal that has a max heal of 8k have a variance of 3k? (5k-8k)

 

Like, what?! It can basically crit within itself... That should not exist.

Edited by kiramon
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