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I am confused


Mec_san

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Good morning.

 

I hope i will have an answer on this question because reading some feedbacks, and see the line that you're taking, i am confused at the moment.

 

My question is : What is your goal?

The answer that i have now are : 1) Shut down the game in a year for restarting with a new project

2) Renew the people inside, let run away vet players and change them with new ones.

 

People were really excited about the combat style thing, and the expectation are really high.

But what you are doing now is not what people asked

As i said in another forum, no one asked for an ability pruning, people are asking complete different things.

You are now going to take away sleeping CC from stealth classes?

You are now going to take away defensives from tank classes?

Sniper atm is the more acceptable, but still he lose one between orbital strike and balistic shield,

 

People are going to run away from here, and not cause they are people that cry on little changes. They have to play something completely different that they have played for years, in a game full of bugs (where you have to repeat a boss 5 times not cause you miss mechanics, but because you step in a particular position that resets the whole fight), with server lag problems (Thanks for the answer on costumer service btw, in all the planets i go i see people complaining about lag with normal ping, is always my router the answer? ) with slow story update and thousands of problems that you can see on your own reading the forum.

 

So please.. answer to this question, cause lot of people can't understand those things.

 

 

PS: speaking about taking away abilities and answering the question "does this feel like a *insertclass*? "

 

You taking away force stasis from guardians and sentinel as far as i remember.. that means you removing Force Choke from sith... Darth vader approves in your opinion?

 

If you take away sleep dart from scoundrels and ops i suppose you're going to do the same with mind maze... ok Obi wan was a knight and not a shadow but....These are not the droid you're looking for?

An operative, a secret agent that has to infiltrate in places full of enemies and play with them... that can't cc people?

 

What's the next step? Taking away bolts from sorcerers or flamethrower from powertech?

 

Ps 2: read now that they just didn't add sleep dart for this phase. Still rest of the points remain

Edited by Mec_san
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Ok sorry for the ranting of this morning. Now i got a better look on the update and.. still i don't get your line of pruning abilities, but at least you're not doing as bad as you show at the begin. You're listening and improving and made some classes acceptable atm.

 

Still my advice is to not go in this direction, think about rescale the fight, FIX the bugs, take away caps, see how that work and then you can think about rework abilities, if needed or required.

 

Cause things must be said, if you're right and espec if you're wrong on certain points.

Edited by Mec_san
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Pruning is great and much needed!

 

These changes got me excited and I will renew my sub because of them!

 

 

Why you think is needed? A little rework is ok, but taking away or limiting the choice is not needed at all, espec when you get to harder content

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  • 2 weeks later...
Why you think is needed? A little rework is ok, but taking away or limiting the choice is not needed at all, espec when you get to harder content

 

What choices are being taken away or limited? If you know your class, you do your rotation and pop defensive. If you don’t know your rotation, you’re just button mashing anyways. Learn the new rotation like we’ve had to do with every class change released in the past 9 years and stop trying to make this bigger than it is. This isn’t an existential crisis.

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Why you think is needed? A little rework is ok, but taking away or limiting the choice is not needed at all, espec when you get to harder content

 

What choices are being taken away or limited? If you know your class, you do your rotation and pop defensive. If you don’t know your rotation, you’re just button mashing anyways. Learn the new rotation like we’ve had to do with every class change released in the past 9 years and stop trying to make this bigger than it is. This isn’t an existential crisis.

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These changes seem both inconsistent between classes and ill-thought out for maintaining flavor and class viability.

 

The one class where pruning of this kind might be warranted, Operatives? Is essentially skating through completely intact, while underperforming and near-extinct roles like DPS Guardians are losing their already anemic escapes as well as DCDs and utility.

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What choices are being taken away or limited? If you know your class, you do your rotation and pop defensive. If you don’t know your rotation, you’re just button mashing anyways. Learn the new rotation like we’ve had to do with every class change released in the past 9 years and stop trying to make this bigger than it is. This isn’t an existential crisis.

 

Last I knew, haven't bothered to check up. Losing my Force Choke on my DPS Juggernaut is never a good thing. I like to use that often, just for the fact that I'm force choking someone :)

 

I heard it was given back. Not 100% on it though, and I haven't logged into PTS in awhile now.

 

Here's hoping with Shadow/Assassin pruning, they replace psychokinetic blast with Project and Lightning, back to how it used to be :)

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These changes seem both inconsistent between classes and ill-thought out for maintaining flavor and class viability.

 

The one class where pruning of this kind might be warranted, Operatives? Is essentially skating through completely intact, while underperforming and near-extinct roles like DPS Guardians are losing their already anemic escapes as well as DCDs and utility.

 

Intact? If you don't know a thing, don't pretend you do, pls. Ops lost most of it's defensives provided with utilities. Revitilzers - gone, Curative Agent - gone, Fortified Kolto - gone, Nanotech Suit - gone. Evasive Imperative same row as Escape Plan. Advanced Cloaking the same row as Chem Resistant Inlays. Med Shield same row as Blow for Blow. A ton of fun and usefull utilities were replaced with removed abilities, remaining utilities and main ability evolutions. In almost evcery row there is an obvious winner since most of choices are utterly useless or boring af. Pretty sure it was worth freing 4-5 hotkeys indeed.

Edited by Nortumberland
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Intact? If you don't know a thing, don't pretend you do, pls. Ops lost most of it's defensives provided with utilities. Revitilzers - gone, Curative Agent - gone, Fortified Kolto - gone, Nanotech Suit - gone. Evasive Imperative same row as Escape Plan. Advanced Cloaking the same row as Chem Resistant Inlays. Med Shield same row as Blow for Blow. A ton of fun and usefull utilities were replaced with removed abilities, remaining utilities and main ability evolutions. In almost evcery row there is an obvious winner since most of choices are utterly useless or boring af. Pretty sure it was worth freing 4-5 hotkeys indeed.

Oh no, you lost utilities, how terrible for you. Please tell me, the Guardian player, how hard that must be for you.

 

When they take away your roll and holotransverse as well as losing your healing option outright, then you can feel ill-done by compared to other classes.

Edited by Ugolino
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Oh no, you lost utilities, how terrible for you. Please tell me, the Guardian player, how hard that must be for you.

 

When they take away your roll and holotransverse as well as losing your healing option outright, then you can feel ill-done by compared to other classes.

 

First off, the difference is I don't speculate on things I have no idea about. I don't play guardian, so I don't provide any references to it, while you clearly speak shameless bs about "intanct ops". Secondly, there are only 4 AC for 2 classes on PTS, so no idea what "other classes" you are talking about. Will you claim that Inquisitor/BH are intact compared to your precious Guardian later on too? Ever heared about "crayfish bucket effect"? It's when crayfish on the bottom drag the ones who are trying to escape to them. Same goes for ppl who want to see others suffer as much as they think they do or even more. They come to forum and create topics like "Will be so glad to see xxx nerfed to oblivion, bc I'm sure my xxx got such an unfair beating!". Why? Well, apparently your kind thinks that it's the only way to set things fair. Pathetic approach as it is.

Edited by Nortumberland
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Operatives did lose a lot of their tankiness with Revitalisers being gone, though overall they probably did get less nerfed than Juggernauts. Problem is that dps Juggernauts are already bottom tier in pvp, so they definitely need te be buffed compared to current PTS.

 

I would suggest making Guardian Leap and Saber Reflect baseline again (and please make saber reflect reflect melee attacks as well just like merc reflect). Then the choice between abilities becomes Awe, Blade Blitz, Enure. Still a tough choice, but at least you can have Reflect and Blitz if you want. And Guardian Leap is just vital for mobility.

 

Still, I don't think operatives need more nerfs, Juggernauts just need less. No need to call for nerfs on other classes because one class is getting overnerfed.

Edited by AdjeYo
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Operatives did lose a lot of their tankiness with Revitalisers being gone, though overall they probably did get less nerfed than Juggernauts. Problem is that dps Juggernauts are already bottom tier in pvp, so they definitely need te be buffed compared to current PTS.

 

I would suggest making Guardian Leap and Saber Reflect baseline again (and please make saber reflect reflect melee attacks as well just like merc reflect). Then the choice between abilities becomes Awe, Blade Blitz, Enure. Still a tough choice, but at least you can have Reflect and Blitz if you want. And Guardian Leap is just vital for mobility.

 

Still, I don't think operatives need more nerfs, Juggernauts just need less. No need to call for nerfs on other classes because one class is getting overnerfed.

That's why there should be way more dedicated feedback than there's now. Ppl barely participate or provide response, which will lead to current changes=nerfs become permanent. Additional issue is that instead of balancing specs, devs seem to be balancing AC as a whole which is absurdly dumb. Conceealment Op is indeed "OP" in PvP and deserves nerfs, while, say, Lethality is medicore, but got the same nerfs. Now on PTS it's obvious that Concealment is very strong, while Leth feels way weaker. Also idk why they don't balance stuff via auras to separate PvE and PvP accordingly. Nerfs to survivability and CC might be healthy for PvP, but they are totally unhealthy for PvE, esp soloing. Sadly, it seems, community has no interest in upcoming changes totally blinded by "Combat Styles do BRRR" and pseudo-bloating therapy which will surprise a lot of ppl when they find mandatory stuff (heals/def/cc) removed, while rotation is almost the same.

Edited by Nortumberland
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Additional issue is that instead of balancing specs, devs seem to be balancing AC as a whole which is absurdly dumb.

 

From what Jackie has said, we are currently in the "high level" look at combat styles. This is not the balance phase as far as I understand it. Jackie also said that we would see a deep dive later - at which time I imagine focus will shift away from pruning and setting out how the ability tree should work to actual balancing. I highly doubt the 10 second stim boost reduction will stay in the game for e.g. That's my hope based on what we've been told at least.

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From what Jackie has said, we are currently in the "high level" look at combat styles. This is not the balance phase as far as I understand it. Jackie also said that we would see a deep dive later - at which time I imagine focus will shift away from pruning and setting out how the ability tree should work to actual balancing. I highly doubt the 10 second stim boost reduction will stay in the game for e.g. That's my hope based on what we've been told at least.

With the amount of time left, I have a lot of doubts about it frankly. Also, I belive it's tuning they are talking about rather than balancing. Messing with skills as a whole is different from changing final numbers on existing ones. It's unlikely they are gonna bring back pruned abilities, rather trying to tune the current ones. It's another problem actually. Why don't we get any comments from DevTeam in specific threads? Similar to WoW's blue post balance notes explaining their vision and final concept so ppl don't misunderstand their intentions. Right now I rather see a chaos. Sleep Dart "removal" caused a lot of hate. Appeared to be a mistake in the end, which could have being easily avoided if Devs provided a simple list of pruned skills. Yet there was nothing, but a ton of questions from PTS testers. I mean it already took so much time for Devs to explain Combat Styles, yet a lot of stuff is still missing (like pistols in cutscenes - how would they work?) and many ppl still have a wrong impression on how it'll work. Either they aren't rly interested in feedback, either there are severe problems in Dev Team, bc for now 7.0 looks like a mess in terms of Dev-Community relations. Why is vital info provided on Streams? Why do we have to gather pieces of knowledge instead of simply reading a full-scale article with Q&A link and FAQ? I mean, Blizz isn't a perfect example, but they at least provided clear info with regular updates. Nothing like that for us in SWTOR. Hope it'll change soon and prove me wrong, but eh... for now, I'm pretty sceptical about the expansion.

Edited by Nortumberland
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Why don't we get any comments from DevTeam in specific threads? Similar to WoW's blue post balance notes explaining their vision and final concept so ppl don't misunderstand their intentions.

 

I can't comment on WoW's posts but I used to play a tonne of Overwatch and the devs did the same thing for their balance notes. It is really useful to know what the developer's intent is because it not only assuages some people's concerns, but helps us testers to test since we know what we should be testing. I said in another post on the PTS forums that it would be a very good idea for the devs to at the very least release a full list of every ability that the combat style should have when it hits PTS. That completely removes any of the false feedback such as the sleep dart removal debacle. If there were a few paragraphs detailing the intent for the changes and a list of all the abilities, we would know for certain from minute 1 of testing that sleep dart is intended to be in the game and hasn't been pruned. Our ability to assist in shaping the dev's decisions is limited by our lack of knowledge of developer intent.

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What choices are being taken away or limited? If you know your class, you do your rotation and pop defensive. If you don’t know your rotation, you’re just button mashing anyways. Learn the new rotation like we’ve had to do with every class change released in the past 9 years and stop trying to make this bigger than it is. This isn’t an existential crisis.

 

Sentinels will be forced to choose between 4 mandatory abilities for PVP and master mode solo PVE - guarded by the force, blade blitz, force camo. How is that sane lol? You can survive in ranked pvp without a single one.

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Sentinels will be forced to choose between 4 mandatory abilities for PVP and master mode solo PVE - guarded by the force, blade blitz, force camo. How is that sane lol? You can survive in ranked pvp without a single one.

 

Every combat style is losing dcds and utility abilities and we've been told PvE content is being rebalanced to accommodate the pruning and combat style rebalancing. You cannot compare PTS combat styles to how they perform in ranked right now. That being said, Sentinels have been treated very poorly considering they have far fewer abilities than all the other combat styles on the PTS.

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Sentinels will be forced to choose between 4 mandatory abilities for PVP and master mode solo PVE - guarded by the force, blade blitz, force camo. How is that sane lol? You can survive in ranked pvp without a single one.

 

No you dont understand, smuggle is just as important as force camo!1!1!

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