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Jedi Guardian Feedback


JackieKo

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With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

  • Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  • Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  • What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  • How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  • If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  • As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?
  • Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?
  • Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

 

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

 

Thank you!

 

EDIT: Added additional feedback questions.

Edited by JackieKo
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Guardian Tank either Saber Reflect (Option A) or Enure (Option B) and no Blade Blitz? Even assuming that the level 70 selection for Focus Guardian is the same for Defense, you can only have one of them at a time!

 

No Awe in Options A and B, i.e., another defensive CD for tanks (even without Force Bound) is gone or can only be used in case other skills are sacrificed?

 

This reduction of the available abilities

a) does not make the game more casual player friendly, because it makes it even more complicated for them to select the appropriate skills/passive for their class, but makes it even more probable to select the incorrect skills/passives;

b) reduces skilled players to dust, which were pre-7.0 able to use all of these skills properly;

 

Sorry, but w. t. f. h. is wrong with you? Or at least please let me know which drugs you are taking, because I will need them when this goes live to a minimal extent or or even to a full extent (provided that I do not quit playing the game).

Edited by The_Hightower
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First impression is that you took away too many abilities. I know this is only very early and I'm guessing that some of the staples (like focus builders and saber throw) were left out until they could be fit in, but please don't do what SWG did with their NGE. They dumbed it down so much that the game just wasn't fun anymore.

 

I'd rather no expansion at all vs going with what appears to be a dumbed down version of the game. Are you trying to make this compatible with devices other than a PC? Also vote no for that.

 

Best of luck with the rest of it.

 

Sorry, edit to answer the questions

 

Please answer the following questions:

 

Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

It was too hard to tell if if feels like guardian. I play a tank, and there were no groups to tank for.

However, the fighting was similar to my Knight experience in Live. (the abilities that I did have looked the same)

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

It felt off, it's hard to say why, there were a lot of holes in my hotbars, that was a little distracting.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

I didn't enjoy the feel of combat, likely because I'm so used to my current guardians on live

 

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

In Live, it's my favorite, I have many Knights and Juggernauts

On Test, I am no longer looking forward to the expansion (I will of course be checking back in on later PTS iterations)

Edited by DerringerKnight
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This feels like most of the Jedi Knight abilities were removed, but only some Guardian ones are still there? It's weird, can't say I like it. I already miss saber reflect, saber throw and whatever pubside calls Enraged defense and force scream. Or did I miss some way to get the rest of these skills back? Also why did we have force sweep AND Vigilance thrust now? Sounds like overkill. No stun break will definitely mess with PVP and some PVE content, not having disrupt is also kind of a problem.

 

Vigilance B tester here

Edited by Count_Mario
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[*]Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

Some of the abilities being option does feel extremely limiting to the class, but I'd want to see the full tree of options to really get a feel.

 

It did seem that you didn't automatically have taunt, a threat drop, or an interrupt, which would make a lot of stuff pretty much unplayable.

 

 

[*]Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Not super familiar with the focus rotation, so I'll pass on this one.

 

[*]What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

It did feel weaker, but I didn't have well alocated stats, which probably had something to do with it, and the ilevel 270 versus 306 makes a difference.

 

[*]How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

Not really enjoyable, but that might just be due to the restrictions and lack of previous focus playtime.

 

General Feedback

 

Skills are now only under Guardian, without a split to Knight as well. Not sure if intentional, but this is a nice change to finding abilities when setting up quickbars.

 

Force Sweep isn't replaced by Vigilant thrust when Vigilance speced, but they share a CD. Not sure if intended.

 

Interrupt and Threat drop appears to be missing.

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I main a guardian tank and have done that since release. My first impression is that I wonder where "all" my abilities are.

 

The entire "Jedi Knight" tab seems to be missing. I can't find my AoE stun, my interrupt, stun break, saber throw. I mostly play PvP and those are key abilities. To defend a turret from being taken, for example. Without them I'd be way less helpful to my team there.

 

If this would go to the live server, I'd probably stick to solo story content, because I wouldn't feel useful anymore. This definitely does not feel like the class I've played for almost 10 years now.

 

I hope you can clear this up in the coming days and tell us why those abilities aren't available right now and if this is actually intentional.

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Played Defense Guardian for about 4 years now. This does not feel like Defense Guardian. You took away many of our important DCDs and didn't replace them with anything. It feels like an extremely watered down and worse-to-play version of Defense Guardian, and honestly really makes me upset that the devs would even CONSIDER gutting my favorite class this badly for seemingly no reason.
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The entire "Jedi Knight" tab seems to be missing. I can't find my AoE stun, my interrupt, stun break, saber throw. I mostly play PvP and those are key abilities. To defend a turret from being taken, for example. Without them I'd be way less helpful to my team there.

.

 

Awe and saber throw are things you spec into, no idea about interrupts and stun breaks.

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First off is the reduction of the total number of abilities a result of this being an early test build, or is the plan going forward to reduce the overall number of abilities you have access to at one time?

 

I have concern regarding that this will result in gameplay feeling superficial. As some of the depth that I love is removed from the classes.

 

I personally would love to see class general abilities continue to be available to all loadouts for that class. Like saber reflect and saber throw for instance.

 

Furthermore i feel as though having a choice between a defensive benefit and an offensive benefit will rarely in practice actually be up to personal choice. As dps will generally want to choose what does more damage, and tanks will general want to choose something defensive. For this reason i feel as though that defensive and offensive choice should be separated in order to promote more player choice.

 

For instance, having a choice between enure and blade blitz/saber reflect such as the lvl 70 talents, it would almost never be better to choose enure as a dps.

 

in summary, reducing the number of abilities you have access to at a given time may result in gameplay that feels less rewarding and engaging. And to ensure players can customize without feeling as though they are making the wrong choice, offensive and defensive benefits should be separated into different choices

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Please answer the following questions:

  • Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
    No this does not feel like a jedi guardian. We are nerfed so many basic Defensive Cool Downs for a specific Combat Style when these are available to all current 3 specs in live. I have a passive to lower the CD of Focus Defense but I do not have the ability.
  • Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
    Yes, since I am unable to view my Combat Proficiency to see what I have. Let alone have been nerfed DCD is a horrible thought
  • What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
    With only having 2 DCD is no way going to allow me to defeat silvers or higher
  • How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
    Not, becauses you guys literally removed most of the DCD that are class specific and our trying to limit DCD to balance the game by the sound of it. This does not feel like combat style at all. This is once again feeling like the tree path of back when the game start but 10x worse.
  • If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

Personally the Skill Paths and Utility Points should stay what they are for each class discipline. Do not try to reinvent the wheel. Most people thought combat style would literally be the base stuff stayed. If you decided to play as a shadow in Jedi Knight storyline it would be Shadow Skill Tree and utilities but Jedi Knight Storyline. This here is making me thing this is possible to be 10x worse than thought. Please don't mess with the current paths, skills, utilities, and basic abilities of the Discipline that we choose. This setup will not make it easier for new players. It will not balance out disciplines. It will make it more confusing.

Edited by BallisticKaine
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Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

Not really, the Jedi knight abilities missing it feels very off

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

where is saber reflect and saber throw with the knight abilities missing I can't give a proper answer.

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

Not great, not looking forward to a dumbed down version of the Guardian

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Not enjoyable at all due to limited abilities

 

Guardian Vigilance B tester

Edited by Jadedestine
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does it feel like guardian?

No, for a class that supposed to be about survivability, you stole 2 dcds from dps specs.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

The fact that some of the knight skills are missing

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

Not great, once again taking away saber reflect and focus defense from DPS specs which removed survivability.

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[*]Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

So first, a disclaimer, when you first go into the PTS and try a combat style, a lot of key abilities are missing from your bar. You can eventually find them but that makes the change seem much bigger than it actually is at first sight, and it's clear many other players haven't looked further.

Anyway, yes, it still feels very much like the guardian we know because it's not fundamentally different. With a few caveats I'll detail below.

 

[*]Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

The lack of saber throw seems a little jarring at first. I understand we can get it back with an option that is not currently available. Other than that it seems pretty much as usual when it comes to the main rotation.

 

The lack of force kick and resolute is puzzling, I'm not sure if this is intentional or should be ignored, but these feel like staples of the guardian, and every swtor character.

 

As a PVE player I wouldn't miss freezing force at all.

 

[*]What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

Onderon dailies aren't a very good test, so this is going to be more theoric than practical.

 

Defense :

I will say that having to choose between blade blitz and saber reflect is going to be a major conundrum for tanks in operations, because in the current meta you really need both, but maybe that's just a crutch and we need to relearn the ways of the 2.X era.

Unfortunately you didn't tell us what the discipline-specific passives do so it's impossible to comment on those at the moment.

 

Vigilance :

Feels about the same minus saber throw and force clarity (is that supposed to be gone or is it just missing from pts ?). Force clarity always felt a bit like extra work to me, and not particularly fun, so I wouldn't mind seeing it gone.

Again can't really comment on passives I cannot check, please update us !

 

Focus :

This is a discipline I avoided like the plague on live because it's probably the most ability-bloated discipline in the game. Now I may actually want to try it. I would actually suggest going one step further and having either focused burst or force exhaustion be a replacer for blade storm, as focus is one of the few disciplines that currently does not have any replacers.

Not sure if it's a good idea to have a passive (Unstable Focus) that makes FB and AOE, that seems to be what force sweep is for.

 

 

[*]How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Well it's the most iconic and one of the most enjoyable classes to play solo with, and I don't see that changing with the proposed changes so far.

 

 

I'll end on a more general note : I'm cautiously optimitic with the direction this is taking and I'm glad that you're willing to shake things up and make some big changes. Feels like we haven't been getting anything like that since 3.0.

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I'm honestly trying to figure out what you guys are trying to do with this, and who you asked about the game in order to make these kinds of adjustments...because I have been playing since launch with only one break in my subscription...and nobody asked me. If you are going to do this kind of thing to the rest of the classes...just, save yourselves the budget and don't give us an expansion. I really hope you guys are going to listen to the players on this one...please?

 

- Me

 

 

From the Sticky - Please answer the following questions:

 

1) Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

It definitely does not feel anything like playing Vigilance Guardian. I feel like most of my class has been gutted - up to and very much including both raid utility and survivability. And - nvmd PvP without Enduring Defense/Focused defense...just lol. I used both the A and B option to try to set up...just, no. Please don't do this, like this.

 

2) Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

The rotation was so torn to pieces that I wasn't able to do much of anything. Where is my hard stun? CC break? Saber reflect? Saber Throw? What a hot mess.

 

3) What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

It was like playing a completely different game...and not in a good way. How am I supposed to be of use in either PvP or PvE like this? Terrible survivability and no perceptible increase in damage. I was honestly too depressed with what was left to even hit anything.

 

4) How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

Vigilance/Vengeance is my main DPS toon for end game...and I usually love how it feels, strong and durable, dependable. This...whatever you want to call it, is not any of those things. Please don't do this.

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  1. Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian?
    It feels like a shell of the class, something like a mid-level juggernaut. There's a serious lack of abilities and fundamental abilities that are pretty vital, for example, AoE taunt, how will they reduce threat now? Or support their team in PvP? While as of 5.0 and beyond juggernaut has felt much less of an actual "Juggernaut" in a literal sense than it has in the past. It still has good utility and personally, I feel its identity has been decaying since 5.0. This sort of change, though I know it is early, turns it into just some generic melee DPS with nothing really unique outside of force push.
     
     
  2. Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
    Well, of course. Things like force clarity aren't there, but I actually enjoy that it's not there and hope it does not return. Not only did I feel it was a generic ability in the first place, but it also caused a lot of issues with the GCD system for warrior/knight and I have video proof of it being the case. Missing Saber throw really sucks, I would love to see it back. However, other important abilities like interrupt, Awe, breaker, Mad dash, AoE taunt, Guardian leap, Chilling scream, Focused defense, reflect all being missing is worrisome. Some of these abilities are needed for fundamental gameplay, for example, threat drop. I won't list them off because I honestly feel going further isn't too helpful. We're just missing too many abilities and I hope that it's made more clear how many we'll have, are they getting reworked? Will we have more options? Unclear for now. Just as of now, there's far too little to make a working class.
     
     
  3. What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
    I feel like I am just leveling a character waiting to fill slots for key things like being able to interrupt.. Can't really compare its damage without having something to compare it to.
     
     
  4. How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
    These questions sort of all kind of loop back to the same thing, we're missing too many abilities and it is not enjoyable. I do understand class ability pruning and its importance but getting rid of basic abilities that are kind of key to gameplay is not the move. I would love to see a CC breaker and interrupt back at the very least. Since it's early I do expect it to change in coming patches, warrior and Knights are my favorites I have the most playtime on them respectively.
     
     
  5. Personal feedback
    I do hope that there are more abilities coming back, potentially with either update to them or even fusing them together. For example, enure/endure pain has always been a weird ability, it's actually the only ability left that you guys have kept in the game that can actually hurt you as well as help you. I would love to see this ability get reworked from the ground up, or even fused with something like reflect as reflect alone is the worst reflect in the game outside of talented reflects.
    Things I don't want to see is more emphasis on basic abilities like slash, if we lose core abilities, which I have not seen, yet at least. It would really ruin the class identity, I do hope to see saber throw back, maybe change it too? Riposte used to be off the GCD and for tank it is, if any ability gets removed there should be something else that can do the same thing or something similar to it. For example, if saber throw comes back but different and we lose riposte to have a never missing saber throw, I would happily take that.
    I will definitely be giving more feedback as things come, but for now, I don't have much to say other than this is very bare-bones.
    The game isn't just focused on rotations, it actually has depth to it. I do know most casual players don't fully get into it, but having multiple abilities that are good for only certain situations in PvE doesn't mean it's the same for PvP. Each ability literally on every single class in the game has a use and an impact, like DPS cleanse for example. The game was actually really well made when it came to abilities and utility, if anything utilities and taking things from skill trees and making it available to the class as a whole made things more problematic than ever.

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It's hard to say what this feels like when I don't understand the point of it. We should have all our abilities. We should have gear with defensive stats. I don't see a reason to play PTS as of now.

 

If you're honestly thinking removing abilities will go over well with anyone, I would start re-thinking, seriously.

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Are there lots of abilities missing? I couldn't find basic skills like interrupts, threat drops and stun breaks. Also, it doesn't feel meaningful to make choices between abilities like Enure and Blade Blitz.
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Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian?

Tried Vigilance and although some abilities are missing it feels pretty much the same as live.

 

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Again just from a Vigilance stand point the rotation is the same, so nothing is out of place, I really miss Saber Throw, such an iconic skill should have been baseline.

As a side note - stun breaker and interrupt are missing, honestly seems more a bug than an intended choice, anyway is really a bad change right now

 

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

The damage side is basiically the same, survaivability and damage reduction has been obviously impacted, hopefully a review of the cooldowns removed will ease the transition

 

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Pretty much the same class as before, there are too few activities engageble right now to judge

 

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I would make Saber Throw baseline and review survivability for all disciplines

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It feels like mid level Guardian, not 75 lvl. I get it, you want to remove some abilities because we are going to get new ones with the new expansions, but without seeing how much this affects the other combat styles, JG feels like it's nerfed to the ground. Of course, once we will see the whole picture this impression can change, but until then this thread can be renamed as "The Official Jedi Guardian Mains Crythread" Edited by Voroschuk
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I just learned to fully play the Jedi Knight Guardian Tank class yesterday by playing Eternal Championship. I had a lot of fun learning how to use my Reflect to take less damage and dish damage out at the right time, Blade Blitz to get around when I was too far to leap, and Enure to "heal". It made the Guardian Tank feel very different than my Trooper Tank and Shadow Tank.

 

I do not like that I now will have to choose between those three. I am scared to see what happens to my main class, if you take three really fun abilities from an existing class, that feel to me like they are key abilities, and make us choose only one now.

 

None of the abilities was something I used in my "rotation" (situational instead) but I feel like it would be a lot less fun, and I'd only get a really good idea of how much less fun if I tried the more complex content like Eternal Championship or Operations, doing dailies on Onderon wouldn't really require any of those three at all.

 

In the Jedi Knight’s current state, there is quite a bit to learn and memorize--you need to understand active abilities, passive modifiers, selectable utilities, and how they all work together. Our goal is to make these relationships clearer and easier to understand, while also ensuring that the class retains its identity.

 

I DEFINITELY struggled to learn the Jedi Knight / Warrior more than other classes, I started learning the Marauder Carnagge today and oh boy it was rough. But what gets taken away, Reflect/ Enure / Blade Blitz, was NOT part of the "problem" I don't think, if it can even be considered a problem.

 

“does this feel like a Jedi Guardian?”

 

I'm not sure how to answer that, especially for the Jedi Guardian Tank which is the one I'm most familiar with.... Reflect is the one that makes it most "special", but man Blade Blitz and Enure are super cool too. So it feels like 1/3 a Guardian Tank LOL. I won't be confusing it with a Trooper or anything, but... disappointing.

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b) reduces skilled players to dust, which were pre-7.0 able to use all of these skills properly;

 

I was going to write a long post, but the above quoted part sums it up. Since putting the game on Steam, they have been trying to reduce and eliminate every advantage long-time players might have. This is another step on that journey.

 

I completed the initial steps as specified in the How to access the Jedi Guardian on PTS thread, arranged the abilities on quickbars, went out to play a little. After only a short while, I had to lean back and wonder: Do I even want to play more of this on PTS? What would be my motivation? This is the not the final shape of things and this is completely uninviting (not to mention: all my Legacy stuff has been removed thereby reducing QoL)

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Addendum from my side:

 

Guardian tank with only one of Enure, Blade Blitz or (!) Saber Reflect severely reduces the viability of this class for the standard-Brontes nim strategy (at least on Tulak), wherein the tanks eliminate the spheres in the final phase (after both Hands are gone).

Edited by The_Hightower
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