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7.0 Changes are NOT what was promised.


Aberd

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Let me be honest about the changes that are currently on 7.0 PTS.

 

I HATE them. I think they are stupid and utterly unnecessary.

I can see tweaking the utilities, moving certain utilities to be base class abilities (Battlefield Training for vanguards), and pruning useless and unused utilities.

 

These changes are also NOT what we were promised a couple months ago in June/July. Here is my understanding of what was promised back then.

 

  1. We would choose a base class; agent, smuggler, bounty hunter, jedi consular, sith warrior, etc. This would dictate which of the 8 base story lines our character would play through. There is some story stuff this would affect in later game content, but is minimal.
     
  2. We would then choose an advanced class (within limits - tech base class could only choose between tech advance class; same for force users with some caveat for LS/DS alignment.) This would allow a jedi knight to use a double bladed lightsaber or a bounty hunter to use an assault cannon or sniper rifle.

 

What I have seen on the PTS thus far (as of the date of this post) is a complete reworking and restructuring of the advanced classes.

 

What I was hoping for, and would love to see is a blending of the mirrored classes. Take Bounty Hunter Powertech and Trooper Vanguard for example. Allow us the choice between the 6 advanced classes. But allow us to use our choice of weapon, blaster pistol or blaster rifle. Then depending on the weapon we are using change weapon specific abilities (stock strike/rocket punch). Then there are abilities like Hammer Shot and Rapid Fire, these could be merged to the same ability. "Hammer Shot" has always confused me and I have never understood its naming. I can only surmise it had to do with differentiating BH and Troopers. Power Yield is proof enough that mirror classes can use the same abilities.

 

I like my power techs, I like their abilities just as they are. I prefer my PTs over my Vanguard troopers, I like the animations and the overall feel better, especially Jet Charge vs. Storm. Here, get rid of Storm and replace it with Jet Charge, this alone will make vanguards more fun. The ONE thing I do not like about the PT, using blaster pistols. The one thing I do not want to do is go full plasmatech on my PTs just to use a blaster rifle.

 

Please BW, STOP the current AC restructuring in its tracks, trash what has been done to date and start over to give us players what was promised when you said you were going to separate base/story class from play style.

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The devs more or less confirmed that they'd like to separate weapons from the combat styles but it'd take a lot of animation work. They're open to it, but it's not happening in this expansion. The devs consider combat styles a step in that direction, so vanguards with assault cannons etc could still happen eventually.
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You do realize that the separation of combat styles from the classes (story) is a separate thing from the combat revamp? They are both happening. So far on PTS we have only reviewed pieces of the combat revamp.

 

Yes, I do. I actually like and support the separation of the combat style from the class.

In their live stream from July 1st, Charles Wood very very briefly mentioned address class balance. Work on balancing the classes has been an on going struggle since the game was launched 10 years ago. In the past couple years since 6.0 was released there has been little "rebalancing" happening, and when it does occur, it's tweaking the damage or cool down or resource usage of select ablities. What I am seeing on the PTS is a wholesale revamp, and I'm not liking what I see.

 

For example, Jedi Guardian at level 70 has to choose from 3 active abilities. As a tank you choose from Awe, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz. That is a great big ***. Currently, with 6.0+, you get all three of these abilities and have access to them at all times in all fights. And there are fights such as Red in Dxun where I will use at least 2 of those; Saber Reflect is used on a regular basis and Blade Blitz is most useful to get out of Acid Pool. Then for the next two fights, Awe is useful for quick stunning groups of adds. Of the three I'm choosing Saber reflect EVERY time hindering my ability to tank well and protect my team.

 

Then when I play a Vigilance DPS Knight I have to choose between Enure, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz. This hurts the team also. I have to forego a DCD or two and to a get out stupid quick ability. Those are life saving / ops wipe saving abilities. If you think a DPS "doesn't need" those, consider this:

  • Tanks loose aggro.
  • Bosses drop Aggro.
  • Tanks die.

DPS needs those DCDs.

 

In regards to having only seen a few pieces, you are absolutely correct. And it is enough to know that I do not like the direction the combat styles are headed. If BioWare continues this course, I foresee major class imbalance when it goes live.

 

One thing we were promised is the actual separation of the class story from the combat style. Eric and Charles made a big todo of it during the livestream and PTS has not given any indication how this will work.

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The PTS hasn't shown any indication on how Combat Styles swapping will work, but that's not what the PTS builds were made to test yet. They're testing the changes to the Combat Styles themselves first, and rightfully so, since balancing will definitely be required, whereas there's nothing much to balance about switching between Combat Styles.
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words... sentences... PUNCTUATION!!!

 

You are also judging the 7.0 combat meta against 6.0 combat when they also said that they will be making changes to scaling. Every time they have made combat changes it has required some follow-up tweaks. This time will likely be no different. They are making these changes to address the ongoing ability arms race that has been building for quite some time.

 

Also, Charles' surname is Boyd.

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The devs more or less confirmed that they'd like to separate weapons from the combat styles but it'd take a lot of animation work. They're open to it, but it's not happening in this expansion. The devs consider combat styles a step in that direction, so vanguards with assault cannons etc could still happen eventually.

 

The animation is not an issue, they have all the animation files they need.

 

Eric and Charles did not promise that a Plasmatech Vanguard could run around doing Plasmatech abilities with an assault cannon or sniper rifle. What they mentioned was having a Trooper running around using a sniper rifle doing sniper abilities, or picking up his blaster pistol and stealthing through dailies doing Scoundrel abilities.

 

As with any major expansion a certain number of tweaks and adjustments need to be made to the ability system. Whether it is adding an ability or adjusting the levels certain abilities are granted at. It happened going from 5.0 to 6.0. My point in the original post is that the number of changes and what the changes are is ridiculous and unnecessary, the classes appear to be fairly well balanced as it is.

 

If they choose to add new abilities like they did with 6.0, or give us new improved abilities to replace low level abilities, that's great! I can get behind those. BUT that is not the apparent direction things are headed based on what they've given us on the PTS.

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The animation is not an issue, they have all the animation files they need.

Really? No, I don't think so. Let's take a single simple example from the current data set.

 

Commandos can use Boltstream with their cannon, but not with a blaster rifle. There is almost certainly no animation for firing Boltstream with a cannon. No, I don't know for sure, but it seems very likely, since using Boltstream with a rifle has never been a thing, and the lack of animation is one obstacle to allowing Commandos to use rifles. See below for commentary on the impact of that lack.

 

Now let's look at Vanguards, specifically Tactics. Is there an animation for the one where you slash the enemy with a spike built in to your armour (like it was a knife), but where your other hand is holding a cannon? Can you cite any possible reason that they would have made that animation?

 

So, to add full(1) multiweapon support to all combat styles, they would need to create animations for all the attacks on each style that are one-weapon (e.g. Boltstorm for Commandos), but for all the other permitted weapon (i.e. Boltstream/rifle, Boltstream/one-pistol, and Boltstream/two-pistol).

 

Commentary on the impact: It isn't the mostest biggerest chunk of work, but it *is* a chunk of work, and they would have to do it to enable full multiweapon. And that point is all that they were saying when they talked about making a pass over all the animations.

 

(1) "Full" == any weapon (any sabre(s)(2) for Force Users, any gun(s) for gun styles) on any ability, as opposed to *partial* multiweapon, which we currently have for Commandos and Shadows/Assassins (and arguably for Sentimaras), where abilities A, B, C work on any permitted weapon, but X, Y, Z only work if you have the "approved" weapon.

 

(2) Counting Vibroswords as single-blade lightsabres, and Electrostaffs as double-blade sabres.

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In his interview, Chris literally said that if they gave a tech user lightsabers, they'd hold their lightsabers like a gun. This is because weapons have nothing at all to do with the actual animations and as such are not optimised for other abilities.

If you gave a scoundrel boltstorm, they'd try firing their pistol like an assault cannon. If you gave a sith warrior a rifle, they'd use their basic attack and hit people with the rifle as if it were a lightsaber.

 

Sure they don't have to fully recreate every ability, but even matching up a current animation with a different weapon takes time and there are 16 combat styles that this would need to be done for.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Advanced classes have not received a complete rework since launch and it is about time some real work was done to them. Ability bloat has become a real problem with some classes/specs and these changes will be liked by some and hated by others and that is okay. Just because they did not mention all the upcoming changes in July/August does not mean they have not been in the pipeline for sometime. If you don't like the final product you are always free to play something else. I would wait to see the final product before jumping all over the changes, we are not getting the complete picture as of now.
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Advanced classes have not received a complete rework since launch and it is about time some real work was done to them. Ability bloat has become a real problem with some classes/specs and these changes will be liked by some and hated by others and that is okay. Just because they did not mention all the upcoming changes in July/August does not mean they have not been in the pipeline for sometime. If you don't like the final product you are always free to play something else. I would wait to see the final product before jumping all over the changes, we are not getting the complete picture as of now.

 

Or they could leave it as it is and rather spend money/resources on content which is way more important. Those who see a bloating problem can stay in other great games like ESO or FF. Those who don't can keep playing SWTOR and enjoy the so desired content. I see it as a WIN-WIN frankly.

Ability bloat is a meme. If you are a casual, you can succeed w/o 3/4 skills since the game is easy as hell. That's how my friends play the game at least. One quickbar. No more, no less. No bloating at all. If you are a serious player, bloating is also nonexistant since this type of ppl naturally enjoyes challange. The more tools a game provides, the more space for self-improvent you have, the more fun you get. What does pruning do? It takes away tools=takes away diversity=takes away fun. Pruning is a step back, not forward. It did no good to WoW. Even with the abusive amount of borrowed powers to compensate. Devs eventually reverted a lot of changes, but lost money, lost players, possibly lost the game. Pruning killed the SWTOR's ancestor - SWG.

The conclusion is: pruning will eventually cost the game a lot. Many ppl who love SWTOR and kept playing it for years will quit. Some will stay ofc. A lot of new players might come. But will the dumbed gameplay keep them? No. Why? Dumb gameplay is fun when you have a bloat of content to roll around. You don't have that in SWTOR. Dumb gameplay+lack of content is a deadly mix. 7.0 can repeat the Shadowlands. Huge interest on start, dead after a month or two.

Edited by Nortumberland
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Advanced classes have not received a complete rework since launch and it is about time some real work was done to them. Ability bloat has become a real problem with some classes/specs and these changes will be liked by some and hated by others and that is okay. Just because they did not mention all the upcoming changes in July/August does not mean they have not been in the pipeline for sometime. If you don't like the final product you are always free to play something else. I would wait to see the final product before jumping all over the changes, we are not getting the complete picture as of now.

 

Oh, hey, the usual excuses.

 

1. A claim that advanced classes haven't been reworked before- a lie.

2. Ability bloat is a "problem"- so don't play the classes that Bioware wants to destroy, especially since a lot of the changes aren't simplified, they've just left gaping holes in basic gameplay, with wild inconsistencies between classes.

3. No relevant number of people like the actual changes. These changes are hugely unpopular, for obvious reasons.

4. An appeal to "we don't have the whole picture" when there's no way to make some of these changes look good. Explain why removing saber reflect and all the mobility and survivability from Guardians is on par with overload shot, and why operatives get sleep dart of all things back when Guardians are losing basic DCDs in the name of "simplicity"

 

5. If we're playing the "you should play something else" game, the handful of fans of these PTS changes should leave instead, rather than the vast majority of the population. We were here first and you are, frankly speaking, a rounding error.

Edited by Ugolino
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Oh, hey, the usual excuses.

 

1. A claim that advanced classes haven't been reworked before- a lie.

2. Ability bloat is a "problem"- so don't play the classes that Bioware wants to destroy, especially since a lot of the changes aren't simplified, they've just left gaping holes in basic gameplay, with wild inconsistencies between classes.

3. No relevant number of people like the actual changes. These changes are hugely unpopular, for obvious reasons.

4. An appeal to "we don't have the whole picture" when there's no way to make some of these changes look good. Explain why removing saber reflect and all the mobility and survivability from Guardians is on par with overload shot, and why operatives get sleep dart of all things back when Guardians are losing basic DCDs in the name of "simplicity"

 

5. If we're playing the "you should play something else" game, the handful of fans of these PTS changes should leave instead, rather than the vast majority of the population. We were here first and you are, frankly speaking, a rounding error.

 

Nailed it. Its obvious to me at least that the devs (who i suspect rarely play their own game and classes) have favourite classes like Operative and have decided to **** on (excuse the expression) the Guardian and Sentinel classes and have finally found the perfect excuse - the disaster called combat styles.

Edited by ExarSun
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Honestly i can't wait for new animations to come, and probably also new ability icons and names to adapt, example, an Adv Proto combat style to a Trooper.

 

The rest is just like many already explained: Hunters play hunters' story but can play as a sniper, a smuggler, or normally as a Bounty hunter as we are used to know it.

 

Ability pruning is another thing that so far, according to what's on the PTS, can create some unbalance between classes or make some classes weaker or with less utilities.

 

About the latter point, my opinion is that in this game people tend to make too much of a drama when changes are about to come. Geez, some made comparison with SWG ending after pruning. Keep your sunny side up even without stupid Enure.

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Geez, some made comparison with SWG ending after pruning. Keep your sunny side up even without stupid Enure.

 

Whilst ignoring that SWG continued on for, what, another five or six years after the NGE, and it was not the NGE that caused the servers to shutdown. And they compare this to WOW and how WOW's ability prune cost them so many players, whilst ignoring that WOW did not have significant losses until all this legal stuff about the rampant, sanctioned harassment came out.

 

 

About the latter point, my opinion is that in this game people tend to make too much of a drama when changes are about to come.

 

That is not opinion. That is a statement of fact. Their hyperbolic, irrational, nonsensical rants are worthy of my 3 year-old nephew having a tantrum because we did not put on the correct train video.

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Let me be honest about the changes that are currently on 7.0 PTS.

 

I HATE them. I think they are stupid and utterly unnecessary.

I can see tweaking the utilities, moving certain utilities to be base class abilities (Battlefield Training for vanguards), and pruning useless and unused utilities.

 

These changes are also NOT what we were promised a couple months ago in June/July. Here is my understanding of what was promised back then.

 

  1. We would choose a base class; agent, smuggler, bounty hunter, jedi consular, sith warrior, etc. This would dictate which of the 8 base story lines our character would play through. There is some story stuff this would affect in later game content, but is minimal.
     
  2. We would then choose an advanced class (within limits - tech base class could only choose between tech advance class; same for force users with some caveat for LS/DS alignment.) This would allow a jedi knight to use a double bladed lightsaber or a bounty hunter to use an assault cannon or sniper rifle.

 

What I have seen on the PTS thus far (as of the date of this post) is a complete reworking and restructuring of the advanced classes.

 

What I was hoping for, and would love to see is a blending of the mirrored classes...

 

I like my power techs, I like their abilities just as they are. I prefer my PTs over my Vanguard troopers, I like the animations and the overall feel better, especially Jet Charge vs. Storm. Here, get rid of Storm and replace it with Jet Charge, this alone will make vanguards more fun. The ONE thing I do not like about the PT, using blaster pistols. The one thing I do not want to do is go full plasmatech on my PTs just to use a blaster rifle.

 

Please BW, STOP the current AC restructuring in its tracks, trash what has been done to date and start over to give us players what was promised when you said you were going to separate base/story class from play style.

 

I mean I'd say the VAST MAJORITY would stand behind this 110%. Here's what I said in another thread which puts in mildly.

 

I mean you went easy on them compared to another FRIEND of mine. I mean lots of talk of far less abilities, or reduced proficiencies, than what were gaining from having Combat Styles or Loadouts! Many classes want some of their more favorite abilities back, if you need to remove some take those away nobody ever used.

 

So trying to stay constructive:

 

I think they LOST FOCUS on what they should have DONE with Loudouts! Which is offered them to quickly switch Gear, Change proficiencies, or swapping items quickly that are in Bank or Cargo Hold. I mean I don't do PvP, but when I do I mostly stink (not because I'm bad) yet I don't like setting a PvP Build with Combat Proficiencies/Gear, just because as soon as match is over, I'd have to change it back...

 

So here is the constructive part... ...sadly what's DONE is DONE, so all we can HOPE for is they add some abilities back to a few Class or Several. Maybe there is still time to FIX this before it goes LIVE.

 

Haven't even heard good things about the new Interface either.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=997315

https://i.imgur.com/Vq1gaqL.png

 

They clearly got sucked into a Rabbit Hole, and lost focus on what they originally committed to. I mean I like the idea of Hybrid Class you suggest, that could clearly be an evolutionary thing from 7.0 onward perhaps... ...just don't know if they have enough time to do something like that until 7.1 -7.4?

 

What I do understand is many don't like loosing abilities, cause several were considered CORE to each Class. The REAL problem is they aren't offering NEW abilities even 1, to make up for some of the losses. I mean all this just so we can choose a new weapon type, honestly lack luster benefit I'd rather have UNDONE! :(:o

 

Now they are going to have to work TWICE as hard to try and FIX before LAUNCH.

 

I just generally see far more UPSET than satisfied, with the vast majority of these changes. While a very limited few they buffed some classes, like TANK on Imperial Side yet choose to Nerfing those on Republic side overly harsh!

 

:rak_02:

Edited by Strathkin
Grammar
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Ive put a lot of time, effort and money into not only getting my toons to gold 306 gear with augments, with the sets purchased with tech fragments, but now hear they aren't just nerfing it with a cap increase, but removing the abilities of the sets. I would ask why, but I will assume greed over just greifing the customer. After a lot of hard work, I would like to run content without the worry of having it sabotaged. Plus getting down my rotations, and supplementary powers to stay alive running solo. Not easy but doable and less tedious now that I have good gear.

 

I've also learned to not take part in the expansions with my alts, so as to not ruin my crew compliment, even though they stop talking once you finish your class quest atleast they are still there! But If we avoid the upcoming expansion, will our gear and current cap remain so we can focus on just enjoying the game and not grinding all over again? I had hoped to get the to talking again by buying the L50 boost for them, to hear more of their story or have companion quests, but that doesn't help ether...they say nothing other than combat quotes.

 

Hopefully the rumors of such terrible things to come are just rumors, and I can continue to run raids, heroics and stuff without need to worry about starting all over again....because I wont!! IM already half burnout just rerunning the FP's over and over again for the tech fragments and mods. Be kind to us Devs!

Edited by CatStar
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I don't mind having to get new gear with a level cap increase and it provides an opportunity for a load of new sets that will work with the pruning/rebalancing. 6.0 has been out for a good while now and just being able to get end game gear and best in slot items without having to spam the same operations over and over has been enjoyable for me.

 

The things I would change with new gearing are the number of modification variants and amplifiers. The amount of rng for those who are trying to achieve the perfect stats is obscene. There needs to be a better way than having some 30 odd variants, especially when it's been widely accepted that you should just aim for one specific variant. Amplifiers are also really annoying and in my opinion should not offer any combat advantages. Yes, those with billions of credits don't care, but those with only a few million or less who just hit end game get gatekept out of harder content and ranked PvP because they simply don't have the currency to sink into gambling stats. Amplifiers would be much better if you could straight up pick the one you want to get and pay a tech frag cost to apply it without any RNG (much lower than the cost of the gear itself).

 

Apart from those rng elements, I'm looking forward to getting new gear and levelling up again despite having spent the past several months getting set bonuses for every advanced class and 306 for all my characters.

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Well I certainly like the idea of using Tech Fragments especially to buy Augments; especially if you could choose them. I mean even if the cost was 6000-10,000 Tech Frag's + 2-4 million Credit's for Augments; rather than 3000 Tech Fragments for the Gear + the 1 Million Credit's cost.

 

Still most my toons only now have gotten most of the GEAR they've wanted, and now (some) may all go to the scrap yard, just to start that process all over again. *sigh* Sure some Gear has been out for awhile I get that, what I don't understand is why not focus on new sets with slightly better bonus? Hopefully they won't invalidate older SETs that worked or were decent...

 

Change the 2% mastery to 2.5%as an example on new SETs, lead with the carrot sort of thing...

 

Though I've always been surprised they only recently increased Tech Fragments up to 11,000 (max) up from 10,000. Maybe it's time to rethink 12,000 (max) perhaps...

Edited by Strathkin
Grammar
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Though I've always been surprised they only recently increased Tech Fragments up to 11,000 (max) up from 10,000. Maybe it's time to rethink 12,000 (max) perhaps...

The increase from 10K to 11K was simply because they added a thing that costs *exactly* 10K, and people rightly complained that buying this thing would inevitably cause them to waste Frags because of the impossibility of hitting *exactly* 10K without going over.

 

(I say "rightly", but many of the actual complaints were aggressively hyperbolic.)

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Yes, I do. I actually like and support the separation of the combat style from the class.

In their live stream from July 1st, Charles Wood very very briefly mentioned address class balance...

 

For example, Jedi Guardian at level 70 has to choose from 3 active abilities. As a tank you choose from Awe, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz. That is a great big ***. ... And there are fights such as Red in Dxun where I will use at least 2 of those; Saber Reflect is used on a regular basis and Blade Blitz is most useful to get out of Acid Pool. Then for the next two fights, Awe is useful for quick stunning groups of adds.

 

Then when I play a Vigilance DPS Knight I have to choose between Enure, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz. This hurts the team also. I have to forego a DCD or two and to a get out stupid quick ability. Those are life saving / ops wipe saving abilities. If you think a DPS "doesn't need" those, consider this:

  • Tanks loose aggro.
  • Bosses drop Aggro.
  • Tanks die.

DPS needs those DCDs.

 

I mean honestly their problem is more about trying to make Class Balance a thing, it never works in almost ANY environment ever created; and all it manages to succeed at is greatly upsetting users in the process. Because each Class has different advantages/disadvantages, so do little things slower over time! Those also cause far less friction. As you identified they started going down that road, yet again lost focus with maintaining it--takes longer to do yes, yet it also results it better long term results.

 

However while I was OPEN to Combat Styles originally, now I wish they'd take it back. I'd press the UNDO button if I worked for EA right now... ...especially having to choose between several favorite abilities, that made each class work and also be unique.

 

"I wished they limited choice to two 2 of the former 3 abilities" --dependant upon which Combat Style you choose!

 

As you've already stated, this limited choice of popular abilities effects several class of characters, not just one; while one in particular won't even notice change, is it a choice of abilities no one used and is buffed a lot more. :(

 

Mostly very disappointed, hopefully they manage to win a lot more of us back before this launches...

Edited by Strathkin
Grammar
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I mean honestly their problem is more about trying to make Class Balance a thing, it never works in almost ANY environment ever created; and all it manages to succeed at is greatly upsetting users in the process. Because each Class has different advantages/disadvantages, so do little things slower over time, those also cause far less friction. As you identified they started going down that road, yet again lost focus with maintaining it-takes longer to do yes, yet it also results it better long term results.

 

However while I was OPEN to Combat Styles originally, now I wish they'd take it back. I'd press the UNDO button if I worked for EA right now... ...especially having to choose between several favorite abilities, that made each class work and also be unique. As you've already stated, this choice effects several class of characters, not just one; while one in particular won't even notice choice, and is buffed a lot more.

 

Mostly very disappointed, hopefully they manage to win a lot more of us back before this launches...

 

the problem is PvP these are what they are trying to change all the stuns, defense for it's not a PvE thing at all it could have been easily dealt with having a PvE tree and PvP that way they can isolate stuff at a much easier pace instead of hurting the other play type.

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Separating PVE and PVP is something that should have been done years ago. Can it be done with the existing game engine? If the engine supports it, why hasn't it been done? Is there a lot more infrastructure/programming needed that we aren't aware of? Is there some code that is too delicate that is preventing a separation from being implemented? A two to three sentence explanation would probably suffice.

 

Separating the two strikes many of us as a no-brainer solution to the balance question. We already have code in the game that prohibits certain abilities and items from being used in PVP (rocket boost comes to mind). Why not keep all of the abilities but have a separate PVP and PVE databases. Power A does X damage in PVE (including HM, Ops), while in PVP Power A could do Y damage. Power B lasts for X seconds in PVE, and in PVP this Power B (pick your DCD) could last for X-Y%. How much would DCDs need to be reduced to reduce TTK in PVP? 25%? 50%? Have any Devs actually done that math?

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----

Edited to include something I added to Guardian (Thread)

----

 

the problem is PvP these are what they are trying to change all the stuns, defense for it's not a PvE thing at all it could have been easily dealt with having a PvE tree and PvP that way they can isolate stuff at a much easier pace instead of hurting the other play type.

 

Yea I mean I like idea of having a diverse PvP Skill Tree, perhaps even limiting Tacticals to either PvE or PvP (only) as that's the only real way to address this! I just know I'm really not liking the vast majority of changes thus-far; despite Combat-Style seemed appealing previously, now you just have to give up far too much!

 

Not only can they not stand and fight in their current state but they also cannot run from the fight (removal of intercede, mad dash a choice)

 

Yea, they really hurt Guardian's overly bad... then I was thinking over the weekend, what else could I offer aside from what I wrote (above or before) to try and be constructive. Clearly they need better defensive abilities, yet that is obvious!

 

Still I think they are just asking too much, not that people can't ADJUST or ADAPT. It's for many classes, those 3 abilities were often CORE to the CLASS. I thought about this a lot this last weekend, then I realized something...

 

IF ONLY: (Constructive Part for them to RETHINK)

 

It wouldn't be so bad, if depending on the CLASS selected; you were limited to just 2 of the 3.

╘ it also require DEVs to adapt, just as much as they are expecting us too!

 

  1. That allow people at least some flexibly to adapt; having a PvP Skill Tree, separate from PvE.
  2. It also allow them to adjust, by limiting (most) Tacticals to PvE, or PvP, etc...
  3. Also giving most classes a choice between 2 of the 3 former abilities!
  4. They could slightly revise Passive's abilities to account for it; or (adapt) changes just to PvE, or PvP.
  5. Allows smaller changes, and seperates the two environments; as what works in each is very different.

 

Honestly, if they did that people wouldn't likely be as upset, cause right now they are!

Edited by Strathkin
Grammar
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