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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.

TACeMossie's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 04:16 AM | #5011
Quote: Originally Posted by fire-breath View Post
I feel the same. But only if the DPS should be able to dps the adds down in time. My shadowtank is almost full 186 geared so I dont expect a group of 2 27kHP dps to finish off the adds before me. If the DPS are 180 geared than its their issue indeed. Also sometimes in mando raiders I just dps the dogs instead of the boss. As long as I keep the boss away in his red circle phase there is no pain for the healer.

Regarding the funnier job for healing when the adds enrage. I wouldnt mind doing this with a healer guildy but I am treating pug healers with more safety. Personally I dont mind healing getting somewhat more rough. For example in atthis I tend to get some extra adds in when I see the tank is taking the guardians and disciples 1 by 1.
Gotta remember that those 27k hp DPS are still doing 33% more DPS than you are each, but yeah I understand your issue.

Now if you decided to prevent the healer from falling asleep by tanking in DPS gear...

Once a guy who wrote guides, now just a guy getting back in
Vanguards/Powertechs 4 lyf

BobFredJohn's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 06:23 AM | #5012
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Now if you decided to prevent the healer from falling asleep by tanking in DPS gear...
On that topic....

False emperor, me on my vanguard tank, 2 vanguard dps and a scoundrel healer.

I notice 1 vanguard dps in in ion cell. I ask them to switch and there is no answer. They then set off to pull 1 elite droid, open with mortar volley then follow with storm (a tank tree ability) and I can see some tank tree buffs popping.

It becomes clear this vanguard dps is actually a tank, I therefore check their gear. Its stacked with power, accuracy and alacrity. Dps gear on a tank specced person set to dps role. I decide it would be best that I tank as they aren't mit stat geared. I therefore guard this tank/dps or whatever the hell they think they are (opening with mortar volley is either a dps or a pathetic tank, but they do move to melee and use pulse cannon, but not on the buff obviously, that would be sensible).

I end up tanking the next few pulls and notice that this vanguard in dps gear, stacked power and in ion cell, who keeps switching off my guard (so I move it to the actual dps) cant pull off me without using taunt. Im feeling quite happy with my rotation if a higher level, harder hitting person can't pull. However the healer isn't happy.

The healer keeps telling mr tank/dps to stop taunting on cd (the only way he has any chance of holding aggro) as he takes a lot more damage than me. The tank/dps doesn't answer. I then suggest to them that they let me tank as I seem to know the rotation better (they have started using full auto now between their mortar volley and storm) and I am correctly geared. No answer. We end up doing the entire mission like this, with everyone constantly reminding the tank/dps who is in what role.

Malgus fight is interesting as the tank/dps is taunting on cd to keep aggro (thanks to a sage healer I ran with a few weeks ago and their advice I can now vang tank without any need for taunts, as such I cba taunting back). However this tank/dps doesn't kite malgus against the wall and instead kites him. As such people are thrown around everywhere. Still we get it done and tank/dps promptly ends up on ignore of all 3 of us.

On a side note, something strange I have noticed recently while tanking. I was in a different false emperor run with a shadow dps who liked to mind maze, and a mando dps who liked to mortar volley. The shadow would often run in and cc an enemy. I would then start the pull and make sure to build aggro on everything whilst avoiding breaking the cc. The mando dps on the other hand would mortar volley anywhere he wanted and often broke the cc. This ended up with him getting aggro from a strong or elite in a number of pulls.

The mando decides this is a result of my aweful tanking (the fact that I have lost aggro on only 1 enemy is ignored). I explain to him that to build aggro I would have to break cc, which would be pointless. I tell him whoever breaks the cc is going to take the aggro, and if he doesn't want it don't break it.

For the rest of the mission this advice is...ignored. The commando continues to break cc. I wouldn't have any problem at all with this if it wasn't for his attitude. He seemed to think it was still my fault for not tanking.

After this run with this commando I had the exact same issue 2 more times. How can a tank build aggro without breaking cc? and why can't a dps place his aoe sensibly, or, if they can't control their aoe properly, then shoot 1 enemy at a time (though, looking at most dps at this time, that 1 enemy would probably be the cc'ed one).
Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

Cox_The_Beast's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 09:30 AM | #5013
Had a nice lvl 50 HM FP run on my Assassin Tank, who only this week reached lvl 50. It happened a couple of days ago.

I queued for the daily reward and hoping to get a bit of experience, and got an instant pop for Directive 7 HM. Team was me, a lvl 53 Sorc Healer, a lvl 55 Jugg DPS and a lvl 55 Merc DPS. The Merc DPS was in mostly 180s with the odd 168 piece. Jugg was in 162-168. Sorc was wearing 148 rating mods. Guard slapped on the Merc, and off we go.

First pulls are a breeze, and I level up to 51 on the first boss, gaining Phase Walk.
The most funny thing however, is that things melted so fast I could just literally stand there and look at them. However, everyone is patient and tolerant. Even when my Assassin loses aggro for a brief moment on the Strong and Elite mobs, they don't complain. After all, my Assassin being in full 140 rating gear doesn't make it easy on me to keep aggro above them...

The second boss, the three droids, bugs up, with one of the three remaining shielded all the time after the other two are dead. However, for some odd reason we find out that while our attacks don't work our DoTs do. So we spread them like crazy, and eventually down that immortal droid.
At any rate, we down every boss without a death, except on the one with the two turres. There the Merc rips aggro on both turrets, and before I have a moment to masstaunt - which I do right away... he's dead.
I felt so bad I apologized in chat three times after the boss was down. The Merc confessed he had no idea what happened, and apologized for ripping aggro. Not his fault, mind you...

Still, after that fight we go fast through it, until we reach the final boss. There I realize we lacked one of the consoles that hang on a wall, but said in chat that I wouldn't mind, I was already happy with the whole run happening in hte first place...
But the others first abort conversation, and then offer to help me get that last console for the bit of Exp that the bonus gives. I said it was no problem, but they were so kind to do it, that I accepted. In the end, it was the very first one that we missed, so we returned almost to start... Then back to the boss.

Now, I tanked Mentor a few times, both in SM and in HM. But I was on my Guardian, Jugg or Powertech. Different kinds of tanks completely. I said so and went to it. I did my best, but regardless I constantly had the Claw's attention, together with at least one - if not two - of the big turrets that spawn regularly. Oh, and don't forget the gigantic droid either...
Only the pro healing that Sorc unleashed, the couple of offheals the Merc threw around and hte fact the Jugg taunted the small turrets as I was busy with the rest made it possible for us to beat it. Amazing team, I wish more people would play like that.

In the end, before parting ways, I apologized to them, because I know all too well how to tank, and my performance was... less then perfect, at the very least.
They actually responded I did quite well, considering the gear disadvantage and everything.
We all convened that healing was great, and that DPS was focused perfectly. Not bad at all, for a PuG run, I guess.
"Saviour, conqueror, hero, villain. You were all these things, Revan... and yet you are nothing. In the end you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."
Darth Malak to Revan on the Leviathan.

bluecheesebandit's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 10:16 AM | #5014
With conquest I've had more motivation to actually complete groupfinder ops, so I've lately been pugging into some groups.

So yesterday, after just completing a 16m turned 8man for final boss I see "LF tank at Brontes" so I'm like oooo ok this will be nice and quick and dirty. I hop on my tank, join the group, and its a guild who looks like it never really has done ops. 4 of the people in the raid were from the guild, one dps and healer were pugged, and the tanks were also pugged. Ok, fine, and I notice the other tank is a friend who I see around quite a bit and I've done a nightmare group with. So the setup: 2 very experienced tanks in full 180 BiS with some 186 pieces, and 4 dps in 162-180 vendor comm gear and 2 healers in around 168 gear. Couldn't be bad, right?

Our first wipe is from no cleanses from the healers on the nanites debuff from kephess clones. Ok, ok, I mean, fine. They'll figure it out. One more wipe to the same thing, the other tank and I get a little annoyed. We criticize the healers, (one of whom was standing directly in front of the tentacle I was tanking on my side, really?) who says first that "he got them" and that "yeah I cleansed the sin tank" (hint: my friend is a sin tank and shrouded them) and finally "they were out of range" and "do you want me to heal or cleanse" to "I've done this multiple times so shut the expletive up". This is from the guilded healer.

Its ABOUT THIS TIME, that the other non guilded healer is like, "uh, so what am I supposed to cleanse"? To which we explain: please adjust your UI to "bleh bleh bleh" and watch debuffs and cleanse them. PERFECT! I whispered him that I really appreciated the humility for asking and we got that all sorted out. We also let healers know that the little cuddly puddly thing put down by the sin tank is actually a good place to stand (WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT). So on this next pull, the healers actually cleansed! We even got to the droid clock phase! Then, disaster strikes...

All of the dps followed the raid leader to like 2 o'clock, where the first droid spawns at like 7:30 and the first one you have to kill is at 9 (on SM groups often skip one droid, bad habit but meh)... The other tank and I can't do enough dps to kill the droids, and by the time the dps downs ONE of the droids (skipped 4 of them) two droids have already exploded. Needless to say, healers.... yeah nope...

Next pull! The "raid leader" (DerPS which led the dps to the wrong droid) whispers me something like "sorry, this one guildie we pulled in sucks and we only took him cuz he's a guildie, the other dps is good cuz he follows instructions and 'terrible healer' is good. Let me know if you have any people you want to pull in". I whisper back "nah, you done ****ed up" and he's like all "awww **** man I sorry" so whatever.

I tell co-tank and we get a good laugh. One pull later healers let dps die to no cleanses, and then we wipe... The hammer comes down from co-tank and I and the guilded players decide that we're "elitist and we suck and bleh bleh bleh". Pro tip: just because someone is better geared than you, tells you that you're doing something wrong or very inefficiently does NOT mean that they are "elitist". It just means you have some learning to do and someone else is helping to facilitate it.

Co-tank and I decide to form our own groupfinder group. He hops on a healer, I get a couple guildies and then pug 4 dps off fleet. Every person except co-tank and a dps (who were in 162/168s) is in 180 gear, the four dps in all comm gear. One of the dps had the S-1 all-star title so I knew he'd at least be aware of what he was doing, and the other 3 dps were actually pretty good as well. One of the guildies that joined was a merc healer for our nightmare team, so heals were obviously set. I didn't actually have a co-tank, just a jugg dps from my guild who I had "co-tank" nefra and brontes.

So we get rolling. After draxus, the nightmare healer from my guild decides to spec dps, and so we've got one tank and one healer for grob'thok, corrupter zero, and brontes. It was so, so freeing having 6 dps. Grob'thok died in just a couple minutes, corrupter zero only had 2 adds waves. and brontes had two kephess clones. The lightning on the clock phase was at 1 o'clock when we killed the droids, and everything else pretty much melted.

And hint: yes, one healer can get all the cleanses from clones in Brontes, although I suppose it helps that the clones died in 5 seconds and that there were 2, not five of them.

TL;DR: Joined a horrible pug that wiped continually on Brontes due to bads being bads, formed my own pug and cleared DF in around 40 minutes because 1 tank + 1 healer = 6 dps which kill things quickly.
Satele Shan

fire-breath's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 10:31 AM | #5015
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Gotta remember that those 27k hp DPS are still doing 33% more DPS than you are each, but yeah I understand your issue.

Now if you decided to prevent the healer from falling asleep by tanking in DPS gear...
hmm true they should. I guess my expections of some people is to high on this one.
And about tanking in DPS gear .... I tend to do that regulary lately. I always whisper the healer to yell to me if he wants me in full tank mode.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

Jimfa's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 11:19 AM | #5016
Well this is frustrating... queue for DP SM in GF, get a pop, zone in, only to get told that, "Sorry, we're looking for guildies." So I get kicked from the group, and I get a lockout from GF? ***?

FrozenGoalie's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 12:12 PM | #5017
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Now if you decided to prevent the healer from falling asleep by tanking in DPS gear...
I don't even wanna talk about it...

Okay, I do. This is partly about our tank and partly about Other Guy.

Guild alt run of DF and DP HM to gear up my friend's Merc so that he would have a ranged DPS available for NiM. This was basically a guild-PUG, so some of the NiM team and a couple of the back-ups, but we don't normally run together in that setup, let alone in the roles some of us were in. A few random bits and pieces (including things that guildies crafted for Merc, like implants and relics) were up for free roll, everything else was all master-looted to him. This was made very clear at the start, as it was the entire reason we were running the ops. The exceptions were going to be gloves and boots, and if an earpiece dropped it would go to our marauder, who has been rocking Kell Dragon for a little while.

I was healing on my op, which isn't a pretty sight (I ended up switching to my merc, which I'm much better at) with this sorc, Other Guy. We were doing okayish but it was difficult to keep everyone up IMO, but then again I'm normally just a meat shield so I don't have much healing experience. One tank gets out his DPS set and respecs for Draxus, changes back to tank for Grob. We kill CZero and I'm given the Corrupter Blade because the first time we'd run it we'd /roll'ed for it but then it went to the aforementioned mara even though my PT won the roll. He also got the second, so our ops lead said that to be fair I'd get mine if it dropped.

Other Guy was very unimpressed with this. He wanted to be able to roll on it, he didn't like that I got it handed to me, no matter how many times or ways we explained that I'd have one practically ripped out of my hands the very first time the Blade had ever dropped for me.

We skip Brontes to avoid dealing with now-20k Merc deeps and move over to DP. First boss is sketchy but we manage to down it (no earpiece for Kell Dragon mara).

We wipe once or twice on Tyrans and as we're running back in again, one of our guys says in Mumble, "So, uh, I dunno if I should mention this, but {Sin Tank} is in his DPS set."

-_- No wonder I, and my oh-so-wonderful (read: okay) merc heals can't keep the dude alive.

Worse, he'd had his tank set on for Grob'thok... and then put the DPS set back on. And apparently had no recollection of doing so. None of us, Sin Tank included, could figure out why he might have done that. He switched back to tank set and we downed Tyrans and moved on. Rest of the run was pretty smooth, ended after the weekly again.

(Side note, Merc and all his 20k glory did about as much DPS as Sin Tank in his DPS set)

After Merc got the Dread Forged pants, Other Guy whispered him something like "well you're just so special aren't you" because Other Guy had wanted to roll on them; although he'd been told he'd get rolls on gloves and boots only, he went through the entire run and them complained about it not to the raid lead but to the guy we were gearing up.

Merc went in with 17k HP and no implants or earpiece, came out around 36k with some 186s he'd legacy'd over and a three-piece set bonus, DF relics, DF implants, and DF ear.

And my merc got a relic
The Starrunner Legacy
<A Slight Weapons Malfunction> <Shadow Council>
<No Such Thing As Luck>
The Ebon Hawk

fire-breath's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 03:18 PM | #5018
Quote: Originally Posted by Jimfa View Post
Well this is frustrating... queue for DP SM in GF, get a pop, zone in, only to get told that, "Sorry, we're looking for guildies." So I get kicked from the group, and I get a lockout from GF? ***?
Regarding the being kicked from the group ..... I personally think its not such a bad thing since if they werent queueing you wouldn't have a group either way.

Regarding the lockout ... that shouldn't happen and is a bug. A long while ago I had a similar discussion about it and I decided to test it out in a flashpoint. Unless the mechanics changed you only get a groupfinder lockout when you leave the group yourself. Votekicking didnt gave me a lockout at all.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

DataBeaver's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 07:25 PM | #5019
Late night EC SM. I'm on my scoundrel healer (35k HP), and my group ranges from a tank with 17k HP to a dps with 41k. We only have that one proper tank, and a 30k sentinel who says he can tank. First boss goes surprisingly well, and no one dies. We also one-shot second boss, though there are three deaths (first of which gets rezzed), the lightning rods are all over the place and Firebrand is around 80% when Stormcaller dies.

Then comes the third boss. Our tank gets very excited at the prospect of going up the tower. We do a ready check, start the fight, and die before getting even to the first mine because half the people don't know what to do.

Take two. One of the more experienced players explains tactics at the gate. The tank is very insistent about going up the tower, and has to be told three or four times that he'll stay on the ground with the rest of us and one of those who actually know what to do will click buttons in the tower. "On youtube tank goes up tower". Yeah, but on youtube they have two tanks, and they know how to do it. He also keeps asking "rdy?" while explanations are still proceeding.

We finally get started, and the tank promptly runs in the minefield and dies. I rez him, a green tile is revealed, and we move onto it. The tank tries to take a shortcut (he's at the base of the tower, the tile is next to the wall), steps on the corner of an unrevealed tile and dies. Over the course of the encounter two more people die, so we have two healers and two DPS left on the ground. At least these are the people who know what to do, so we get to the colonel. Shortly after getting there the tank demands a rez. No can do, battle rez is still in cooldown. 15 seconds later the debuff ends, so what about now? Nope, you're 100m away at the start of the minefield, I'm not about to run there in the middle of a fight. He's concerned about getting the achievement, so I tell him he'll get it if he just stays put and waits for us to finish the boss. He does, and gets the achievement (I checked), but for some reason still decides it's time to ragequit.

Fine, whatever. Since it's late and we're unlikely to get a new tank anytime soon, we proceed with the seven of us (zero of which are tanks). The rest of the operation is uneventful. There's a bit of confusion at Kephess about what mechanics are present in SM, since the experienced people have only done the op on HM or NiM recently. Still, we one-shot the final boss without any deaths.


Czerka Corporate Labs, even later in the same night. I'm still on my scoundrel, with the 41k commando DPS from the preceding EC. We get a sage DPS with also 41k HP and some kind of tank who leaves before the FP is even loaded. Sigh. After some deliberation we decide to use the commando's tank geared Treek with 40k HP while waiting for a new tank to arrive. She holds aggro very well and we demolish trash and bosses alike. When the final boss is at 30%, we finally get a replacement tank! This causes Treek to be dismissed, so aggro goes on the DPS. Despite my valiant efforts, the sage dies about three seconds before the boss. Our new tank didn't even get to join the fight because of the locked door. Must've been the fastest FP ever for him.

BlueShiftRecall's Avatar

10.04.2014 , 10:29 PM | #5020
Last night on Hammer Station on my level 19 healer scoundrel. The Tank is going off at me in chat because Iím not using abilities that I hadnít even reached yet on my tree and I say I havenít gotten them yet at my level and suddenly Iím a total NOOB healer because the tank canít seem to understand I donít have the abilities heís demanding for yet. One of our DPS meanwhile is constantly running off on his own and the other DPS and Tank ignore and leave him and he eventually dies and blames me for not healing him when he tries taking on a mob and elite droid solo all at once and then the Tank agree's with him and for about the 5th time calls me a stupid NOOB before I leave