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why is the deserter lockout still present in regs?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
why is the deserter lockout still present in regs?

Exly's Avatar


Exly
05.10.2021 , 09:53 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by HaoZhao View Post
This topic gets made every week by the same disingenuous people who pretend they don't already know the answer to this question. The deserter lockout exists to punish crybabies who leave matches as soon as anything goes wrong. These crybabies usually need 40 games to finish a 10 game weekly and they always blame everyone but themselves. It's everyone else who is bad at PVP and not them. These are the same people who comically whine every week for the ability to remove specific maps from the queues, again with the comically self-humiliating argument that it's everyone else who is bad at those maps and not them.

Make this topic again, tomorrow, and the answer will still be the same. You can't gaslight BioWare and you should all stop trying.
I love how you call people names like crybabies to make your point. The truth is that people cried for years about others leaving matches and causing them to lose that got us a lockout timer in the first place. Maybe if those people people would stop crying, we could just get back to the way things were, and should be.

HaoZhao's Avatar


HaoZhao
05.10.2021 , 10:05 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by _Miriya_ View Post
Hello, stranger here up ^
Not to brag, but to clarify your argument is quite invalid: I win most of my matches, we focus heavy on winning since that's how we have fun. Still, lockout is nothing but a problem. If we have a disconnect in the group we have to decide to wait 15 minutes or what.

If you have a rollbug in the match, the same.

Quite the contrary, if you are good at winning, then why complain a random who left the match? Is really not going to affect you that someone who doesn't want to be in the match leaves. Is going to affect you if he stays AFK and you don't get a better refill.

In ranked is another story-

Remove the lockout please.
Yeah, we've all heard the DC excuse. If you are having constant DC problems, then don't queue for PVP. Queueing for PVP with the expectation that you will DC is better known by another term: trolling. Your connection is an issue between you and your ISP. BioWare cannot balance PVP around people with bad connections.

The best player in the game cannot win ancient hypergates in 8 vs 1. Numbers matter. When you leave a match because you are losing (and this is exactly why you and everyone else choose to leave) you're harming the team and their fun because they are trying to make a comeback to the best of their abilities.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.10.2021 , 10:31 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Retro_Chrome View Post
the actual solution is to just remove arenas and re-implement ranked 8v8s. the deserter lock out is fine.
this is the least plausible "option" anyone has offered on the subject. and you're not the only one to offer it.

here is why:
  • every single huttball map is broken beyond repair by desync. and the Pit is broken by the fact that virtually every class in the game can cheese their way around all of the "obstacles" on the map. furthermore, quesh is quadrubly broken in that warriors/knights cannot leap on the top ledges near (but not in) the end zones, AND the map design is such that a full third of the map (mid) is irrelevant to the objectives (ironically it's the most popular area of the map in regs).
  • CW/Yavin has always been a terrible map for rated b/c in rated matches, the teams are full of *good* players, which means they can essentially maintain a stalemate at mid in perpetuem. this causes a chain effect that means the team who caps a node first wins. unless, of course, you can ninja the node from the other team. but again, good players in voice. so that isn't going to happen. the game always boiled down to which team had a combat/carny and a sprint to win their natural node first. with modern movement buffs, it boils down to who has the most lolroll stallers. the map ceases to function. it's just too easy for good players.
  • AHG is pretty much AHG since there is no natural node, and it's pretty flat so little in the way of desync. split your team in 4s. fight over nodes (ignoring mid) for 8-10 rounds, until someone finally caps one node and the game ends. passable as far as existing maps go for rated. b/c it's rated, though, each team sends a trinity comp to each node, so wiping or cc'ing them for a full channel is quite difficult. and teams have the time between rounds to heal, break combat, and essentially reset (unlike arenas).
  • NC is the only well designed (for rated) map b/c channeling the nodes is not a zero sum activity. it requires team work and strategy.

again, brute force doesn't work on any of these maps in rated games b/c no decent rated team can be pushed off a node for long enough to prevent respawns from arriving. this is particularly true with modern mobility buffs and dcds.

you would have to rewrite every class virtually from the ground up to accommodate rated WZs. this is why, while rated WZs were better than arenas as the only form of rated in the game, they absolutely cannot work in 2021.
Krack

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.10.2021 , 10:44 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by HaoZhao View Post
Yeah, we've all heard the DC excuse. If you are having constant DC problems, then don't queue for PVP. Queueing for PVP with the expectation that you will DC is better known by another term: trolling. Your connection is an issue between you and your ISP. BioWare cannot balance PVP around people with bad connections.

The best player in the game cannot win ancient hypergates in 8 vs 1. Numbers matter. When you leave a match because you are losing (and this is exactly why you and everyone else choose to leave) you're harming the team and their fun because they are trying to make a comeback to the best of their abilities.
The DC excuse does seem unrealistic in my experience. I will say that I do get viscerally angry when I eat the lockout for reasons that don't involve me simply choosing to leave. the most common example is I forgot to equip a weapon. it's in my inventory. I just didn't equip it. and now I cannot. well ****. I have to leave now. or I can stay, which I have done twice. but what's more (obviously) infuriating is when I click on the accept for a WZ and it doesn't take me anywhere. the only way to "cleanse" that is to relog, which slaps me with a deserter debuff. and then there's my all time favorite, the backfill, which is 90% of the time a hopeless situation, including porting into (usually VS) with seconds remaining in the match (mind you porting into the losing team no longer even includes the "participation trophy" toward the pvp quests).

map selection. I agree that allowing everyone the ability to select their map would be a terrible idea given the current population in the queue. however, at least (and I'm being conservative here) half of the good premades (at least on SF) only show-up to "DM at mid," which can help their team, but more often than not hurts them. if you're going to lock players who actually want to play the objectives into the match, then you really need to do something to force the rest of their team to try to win as well. but that's impossible. there's no way to make players play the objectives. therefore, allowing players to leave w/o incurring the debuff is the only logical recourse I can come up with. but if you have any better ideas, I would be open to them. I haven't seen any....
Krack

abhaxus's Avatar


abhaxus
05.10.2021 , 11:11 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by HaoZhao View Post
Yeah, we've all heard the DC excuse. If you are having constant DC problems, then don't queue for PVP. Queueing for PVP with the expectation that you will DC is better known by another term: trolling. Your connection is an issue between you and your ISP. BioWare cannot balance PVP around people with bad connections.

The best player in the game cannot win ancient hypergates in 8 vs 1. Numbers matter. When you leave a match because you are losing (and this is exactly why you and everyone else choose to leave) you're harming the team and their fun because they are trying to make a comeback to the best of their abilities.
While I agree if your connection is unreliable you shouldn't be trying to PVP, that isn't always the case. One disconnect should not lock you out for 15 minutes. There is zero justification for a 15 minute lockout on a first offense for any reason other than lazy development and community management.

Bioware are punishing players for their own game design issues. You can get locked out of the game for 15 minutes because of the audio glitch which causes your client to hang for seconds at a time, or being roll bugged, or any of a number of bugs that Bioware have been unable to fix.They punish players for leaving game modes which are horribly boring (OPG) or glitchy (huttball) and they punish players for their own horrendous matchmaking. A 15 minute lockout for a single 'offense' is absurd and embarrassing.
Abhaxus - Sorc | Bitter Pill/Lysol Injection - op | Buubi'sett - PT | Nnnoooooooooo - Jugg | Mayor Bootyjudge - sniper | Juggsridemelikeapony - Merc | Goodagainstbads - sin |

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.10.2021 , 12:58 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by abhaxus View Post
While I agree if your connection is unreliable you shouldn't be trying to PVP, that isn't always the case. One disconnect should not lock you out for 15 minutes. There is zero justification for a 15 minute lockout on a first offense for any reason other than lazy development and community management.

Bioware are punishing players for their own game design issues. You can get locked out of the game for 15 minutes because of the audio glitch which causes your client to hang for seconds at a time, or being roll bugged, or any of a number of bugs that Bioware have been unable to fix.They punish players for leaving game modes which are horribly boring (OPG) or glitchy (huttball) and they punish players for their own horrendous matchmaking. A 15 minute lockout for a single 'offense' is absurd and embarrassing.
in VS, I occassionally die and cannot respawn. it's only happened about 3 times in 3 months, but when it happens, it's always in VS. it's not a death zone like the arenas. I die normally. the respawn button appears but doesn't work. -_-
Krack

HaoZhao's Avatar


HaoZhao
05.10.2021 , 03:56 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by abhaxus View Post
While I agree if your connection is unreliable you shouldn't be trying to PVP, that isn't always the case. One disconnect should not lock you out for 15 minutes. There is zero justification for a 15 minute lockout on a first offense for any reason other than lazy development and community management.

Bioware are punishing players for their own game design issues. You can get locked out of the game for 15 minutes because of the audio glitch which causes your client to hang for seconds at a time, or being roll bugged, or any of a number of bugs that Bioware have been unable to fix.They punish players for leaving game modes which are horribly boring (OPG) or glitchy (huttball) and they punish players for their own horrendous matchmaking. A 15 minute lockout for a single 'offense' is absurd and embarrassing.
So, what you want to do is reward people who throw tantrums and leave matches because they're bad in order to accommodate people who DC once or twice a year and absolutely cannot wait 15 min, once or twice a year? Still not sold. Do you understand why BioWare isn't sold either? This incredibly bad argument isn't capable of withstanding even the slightest scrutiny.

Not liking Proving Grounds isn't a valid excuse to leave a match. Bugs existing are not a valid excuse to leave a match.

You talk about offenses but you are really talking about gaming the system. If they were to give you three strikes a day, you would abuse two of those strikes, every day. No one is falling for this.

abhaxus's Avatar


abhaxus
05.10.2021 , 05:25 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by HaoZhao View Post
So, what you want to do is reward people who throw tantrums and leave matches because they're bad in order to accommodate people who DC once or twice a year and absolutely cannot wait 15 min, once or twice a year? Still not sold. Do you understand why BioWare isn't sold either? This incredibly bad argument isn't capable of withstanding even the slightest scrutiny.

Not liking Proving Grounds isn't a valid excuse to leave a match. Bugs existing are not a valid excuse to leave a match.

You talk about offenses but you are really talking about gaming the system. If they were to give you three strikes a day, you would abuse two of those strikes, every day. No one is falling for this.
All of your white knight counterpoints are undone by my primary argument, that a single offense is not a reason for a 15 minute lockout. The only reason for a 15 minute lockout is laziness. An intern could write the code to make it a tiered system (hell, the code already exists in the game).

I'm not sure why you think leaving a horribly designed warzone is gaming the system, but even if it were, gaming the system exists when the system is broken. Bioware could implement a ranked choice system for PVP maps. It would not only fix the primary issue people have with PvP but also *GASP* .. they would get more data on what people actually like to play!!!
Abhaxus - Sorc | Bitter Pill/Lysol Injection - op | Buubi'sett - PT | Nnnoooooooooo - Jugg | Mayor Bootyjudge - sniper | Juggsridemelikeapony - Merc | Goodagainstbads - sin |

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.10.2021 , 08:28 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by abhaxus View Post

I'm not sure why you think leaving a horribly designed warzone is gaming the system, but even if it were, gaming the system exists when the system is broken. Bioware could implement a ranked choice system for PVP maps. It would not only fix the primary issue people have with PvP but also *GASP* .. they would get more data on what people actually like to play!!!
is true. I'm still min/maxing and building sets for different specs, but now that I have gear, there's no compulsionj whatsoever to sit through OPG or any WZ where most ppl are ignoring the win conditions...except if I feel like ignoring them too. but yeah. that 15 mins? I'll grind a few heroics or I'll log and do something more productive with my life.

just built a sweet custom folding table-top for 5' pool table in the middle of my "man cave."
Krack

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
05.11.2021 , 06:46 AM | #40
When I came back, I was kinda hoping to push my 85 valor to 100.

I don't mind the lockout so much aside from the occasional dc.

Its the win requirement that kills it for me. Grouping up for an Op, fine I can generally have the patience for that - but grouping for pvp for the sake of more reliable wins is too much. Even with the rpm/oem rewards for 10k frags, it can still be a pain just to form a TC. Forming a solid pvp group when the mood hits.... yeah
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