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why is the deserter lockout still present in regs?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
why is the deserter lockout still present in regs?

Ibokagain's Avatar


Ibokagain
06.04.2021 , 05:28 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Enticy View Post
It's funny how people keep saying that the deserter lockout dissuades rage quitting. It doesn't, not in any significant manner. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen someone actually say that the deserter lockout kept them from quitting. I still see people leave wzs on an extremely regular basis, which means the system simply isn't working.
100% correct,if their overall goal was to have folks stop leaving warzones this isn't working.

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
06.04.2021 , 05:32 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
The win requirement is a good thing. Makes people try and win instead of afking in a corner somewhere.
Your opinion. Mine is that it is terrible.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
I'm heavily against map choice. That would just lead to certain maps never being played. A map voting prompted during the queue pop similar to something like CoD? Sure that could work. A straight up map selection though? No definitely not unless it comes with a stipulation that removing maps from the queue will remove your eligibility to complete the daily/weekly.
Which is why we verbally spar all the time because we're diametrically opposed. No, map selection may not be great, but map avoidance...one or two, that would be helpful. I loathe quesh. It is the only map I REFUSE to do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
It is impossible tell if someone DC's intentionally or not, and as I've said countless times before, if you have DC problems then fix your internet first before queuing.
Forgive me if I take Trixxie's word on this over yours.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Class balancing will be a forever issue. The closest we got to perfect balance was 2.x-3.x and it still had problems.
That is a POOR excuse to avoid addressing the problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Losses should not count. The original daily/weekly required wins and the worst thing they did was change it to losses counting. It lead to people just afking and not trying. If you want your daily you should have to earn it.
Just as the deserter debuff has done.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
As I said earlier, its IMPOSSIBLE to detect if a DC is intentional or not. A one size fits all penalty is the best solution. If you get a random DC then well that sucks, it happens. Take a break and requeue later. If you continuously DC? Stop queuing and fix your internet because you're becoming a detriment to other players experiences.
Friend of mine suggested an alternative

Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Do pray tell how you would deal with the number farmers? I'm quite curious what your answer is considering the two things that exist currently to dissuade number farming you want changed back to encourage it. As toxic as those players are, there's little you can do to change it, unless you advocate removing the scoreboard which is a HORRIBLE idea.
It is not my job to generate solutions that will only be ignored. WoW had a system of ranks in PvP which was missed when it was removed. Perhaps introducing that here (along with titles) would be a nice start. But, these ranks only count for won warzones. You can still farm, but now it requires winning too. That is one thought.

Why is removing the scoreboard a horrible idea? I am genuinely intrigued by your opposition to this. An explanation could be enlightening. This ego massaging and validation some seek in warzones is obnoxious. Bitter rivalry and intense competition need not be one and the same.

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
06.04.2021 , 05:34 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Ibokagain View Post
All you have to do is read any of its reply's, they are all troll-like answers. I guarantee that this person does not like the game the way it is, and I for one highly doubt that it is even active in the game. It just trolls around the forums all day trying to cause angst with other players.
Mmmm, not all answers. Dehumanizing him is not going to help. I don't like most of his answers, though.

_Miriya_'s Avatar


_Miriya_
06.04.2021 , 05:46 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
What good does afking do when you need a win to complete the daily and weekly? The lockout and the daily changes is one of the better things they have done for pvp.
Sadly, with Galactic Conquest, there are daily and weekly missions of just completing a Warzone (win or lose).

Besides that problem, some players who are QQers and would leave at first sign of having to work for it, prefer to stay AFK for the lose , rather than wait 15 minutes for lockout. Is faster.
I don't know those are my guesses. I dislike quiters and AFKers the same, but quitters is the lesser evil in these scenarios if you want to win a match. At least you have the chance of a refill, while the AFKers is filling the spot.

Nickodemous's Avatar


Nickodemous
06.04.2021 , 06:35 PM | #125
The deserter lock out is working as intended!
Tyranticus - Ty'zor - Maullin - Clandestu - Pepe'nero

The Elite Warlord Club - The PVP FAB FIVE

Ibokagain's Avatar


Ibokagain
06.04.2021 , 07:12 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by Sappharan View Post
Mmmm, not all answers. Dehumanizing him is not going to help. I don't like most of his answers, though.
Sadly in pc America you can't call folks he or she so I call folks IT. Amercia is backwards that's why Aussie life is the place to live!

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.04.2021 , 10:47 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
The win requirement is a good thing. Makes people try and win instead of afking in a corner somewhere.

I'm heavily against map choice. That would just lead to certain maps never being played. A map voting prompted during the queue pop similar to something like CoD? Sure that could work. A straight up map selection though? No definitely not unless it comes with a stipulation that removing maps from the queue will remove your eligibility to complete the daily/weekly.

It is impossible tell if someone DC's intentionally or not, and as I've said countless times before, if you have DC problems then fix your internet first before queuing.



Which is great news for all the other players. Enjoy your afk, its at least 1 to 2 matches where 1 less ragequitter is in the pool of players until you inevitably rage quit again because your next match is also not a carry. Eventually you'll get the idea and either learn to contribute to the match or just stop queueing. Its a win/win for everyone else.

Class balancing will be a forever issue. The closest we got to perfect balance was 2.x-3.x and it still had problems.

Losses should not count. The original daily/weekly required wins and the worst thing they did was change it to losses counting. It lead to people just afking and not trying. If you want your daily you should have to earn it.

As I said earlier, its IMPOSSIBLE to detect if a DC is intentional or not. A one size fits all penalty is the best solution. If you get a random DC then well that sucks, it happens. Take a break and requeue later. If you continuously DC? Stop queuing and fix your internet because you're becoming a detriment to other players experiences.

Do pray tell how you would deal with the number farmers? I'm quite curious what your answer is considering the two things that exist currently to dissuade number farming you want changed back to encourage it. As toxic as those players are, there's little you can do to change it, unless you advocate removing the scoreboard which is a HORRIBLE idea.
I donít totally disagree with the win requirement either, only how itís been implemented. As Iíve stated in numerous threads now, they didnít need to make it ďwin onlyĒ. They could have adjusted the points system to combat the afkers and made it a 3:1 or better yet, a 4:1 ratio instead on 2:1.

My own experience queuing solo or premade with my wife since this was implemented has averaged a 4:1 loss-win ratio when things are going badly for us. What I mean by that is at the moment with poor match making at the times I play, it feels like the queue often expects me to single handedly carry my teams against premades and non-premade teams. I win maybe 1 match to every 4 when that happens.

Iíve heard from other people and also read on the forums that 4:1 is usually about the average for worst case scenarios. So why not make the win loss ratio a 4:1 points system based on that. Then if someone really is having bad match making or bad luck with teams who donít try, they are still getting something for their effort and they donít feel trapped in an endless loop of getting nothing for their effort. The AfKers would still be mostly wasting their time trying to complete dailies and weeklies that way. But the ordinary player wouldnít feel like they are completely wasting their time.
At the moment the lock out is actually making people AFK when they know itís a lost cause or even purposely sabotaging their teams.

Wether you, I or BioWare agree on the methods, the one thing that canít be disputed is many people left or stopped playing pvp over this change. BioWare (ChrisS) have stated their over all intention is to build up numbers and community so match making works, but thatís not going to happen with the constant big stick approach that makes people play less. Iíve made a thread with ways they can improve the whole situation and I know youíve read it, so I wonít repeat it again. I will just say that the win only requirement and lockout in their current form is having as much a negative affect as good. They can do better and should tweak them to make them feel less arduous. They said they would if needed, but havenít done anything in 10 months.

I also understand your point of view with map choice and donít totally disagree. But the issue is BioWare want to use a lock out mechanism to stop people rate quitting. And while ever they have broken maps, maps people vehemently hate or maps people wonít play properly, then the only recourse is giving players choice so that the people in those maps actually want to be there. I honestly donít know if map choice would work or not with such a small population (I have my reservations). Itís something they should have done 9 years ago.

Number farming is an issue. Iíve also offered ways in the other thread on how Bioware could combat that. An update to the medal system / reward system and also hiding some personal stats from public view would allow the scoreboard to stay, but would remove the epeen stage for those people. Youíd still be able to see all your own stats, but only medals and objective points would remain visible to everyone. Of course thatís only for objective pvp. The Arena scoreboard should remain as is.

The game can already tell if you DC or have connection issues. The tech is already built in. Of course if someone wants to lag switch or pull out their network cable, the system canít tell. But those people would be few and far between in regs. Probably no different to the amount of people whoíd pay $15 a month to hack the game. And as you and others have pointed out to me over the years, itís regs, so why do you care so much if a small handful of fools would purposely DC to avoid the lockout, the overall population isnít going to do it. Especially when the lock out is making less people want to play or play properly. Ie people are afking instead of eating a 15 min lock out cause itís quicker over all to afk.
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a ďHow to PvP GuideĒ

Ibokagain's Avatar


Ibokagain
06.05.2021 , 10:23 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I donít totally disagree with the win requirement either, only how itís been implemented. As Iíve stated in numerous threads now, they didnít need to make it ďwin onlyĒ. They could have adjusted the points system to combat the afkers and made it a 3:1 or better yet, a 4:1 ratio instead on 2:1.

My own experience queuing solo or premade with my wife since this was implemented has averaged a 4:1 loss-win ratio when things are going badly for us. What I mean by that is at the moment with poor match making at the times I play, it feels like the queue often expects me to single handedly carry my teams against premades and non-premade teams. I win maybe 1 match to every 4 when that happens.

Iíve heard from other people and also read on the forums that 4:1 is usually about the average for worst case scenarios. So why not make the win loss ratio a 4:1 points system based on that. Then if someone really is having bad match making or bad luck with teams who donít try, they are still getting something for their effort and they donít feel trapped in an endless loop of getting nothing for their effort. The AfKers would still be mostly wasting their time trying to complete dailies and weeklies that way. But the ordinary player wouldnít feel like they are completely wasting their time.
At the moment the lock out is actually making people AFK when they know itís a lost cause or even purposely sabotaging their teams.

Wether you, I or BioWare agree on the methods, the one thing that canít be disputed is many people left or stopped playing pvp over this change. BioWare (ChrisS) have stated their over all intention is to build up numbers and community so match making works, but thatís not going to happen with the constant big stick approach that makes people play less. Iíve made a thread with ways they can improve the whole situation and I know youíve read it, so I wonít repeat it again. I will just say that the win only requirement and lockout in their current form is having as much a negative affect as good. They can do better and should tweak them to make them feel less arduous. They said they would if needed, but havenít done anything in 10 months.

I also understand your point of view with map choice and donít totally disagree. But the issue is BioWare want to use a lock out mechanism to stop people rate quitting. And while ever they have broken maps, maps people vehemently hate or maps people wonít play properly, then the only recourse is giving players choice so that the people in those maps actually want to be there. I honestly donít know if map choice would work or not with such a small population (I have my reservations). Itís something they should have done 9 years ago.

Number farming is an issue. Iíve also offered ways in the other thread on how Bioware could combat that. An update to the medal system / reward system and also hiding some personal stats from public view would allow the scoreboard to stay, but would remove the epeen stage for those people. Youíd still be able to see all your own stats, but only medals and objective points would remain visible to everyone. Of course thatís only for objective pvp. The Arena scoreboard should remain as is.

The game can already tell if you DC or have connection issues. The tech is already built in. Of course if someone wants to lag switch or pull out their network cable, the system canít tell. But those people would be few and far between in regs. Probably no different to the amount of people whoíd pay $15 a month to hack the game. And as you and others have pointed out to me over the years, itís regs, so why do you care so much if a small handful of fools would purposely DC to avoid the lockout, the overall population isnít going to do it. Especially when the lock out is making less people want to play or play properly. Ie people are afking instead of eating a 15 min lock out cause itís quicker over all to afk.
If bioware is going to live and die by this new weekly of wins only then they need to add more incentive for folks to actually participate in a losing pvp match.

If the whole bad change on Bioware's part is to deter afkers and folks leaving matches - hence the lock out and wins only. Maybe scrap that and go to something that accounts for medals earned - as afk players won't have medals or enough of them to qualify for receiving credit toward the weekly and pvp rewards. It def could be implemented it would take some work but with other input from pvpers I think it would work way better than having a lock out and winning only for actually receiving something from pvping.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.06.2021 , 12:50 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Ibokagain View Post
If bioware is going to live and die by this new weekly of wins only then they need to add more incentive for folks to actually participate in a losing pvp match.

If the whole bad change on Bioware's part is to deter afkers and folks leaving matches - hence the lock out and wins only. Maybe scrap that and go to something that accounts for medals earned - as afk players won't have medals or enough of them to qualify for receiving credit toward the weekly and pvp rewards. It def could be implemented it would take some work but with other input from pvpers I think it would work way better than having a lock out and winning only for actually receiving something from pvping.
I did suggest something like that in my other thread.

Quote:
13. Revamp the medal system and then reward people who play to win. That would mean even if they lose, they may get better rewards, like more tech frags or gear vs people who donít play to win.

14. Incentivise players to get better through rewards. This could be done by adding new pvp legacy achievements (examples only) :
* interrupting an enemy player healing a team mate
* mitigating damage
* target swapping
* stopping a team scoring with the Hutt ball
* catching a Hutt ball pass in the end zone
* intercepting a Hutt ball pass
* cleansing abilities from a team mate or yourself
* preventing an enemy from capping
* stealing an enemy node
etc, etc, etc
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a ďHow to PvP GuideĒ

Ibokagain's Avatar


Ibokagain
06.06.2021 , 02:13 PM | #130
Yes, it was a goop post > https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=992476

Bioware since you implemented the debuff for leaving wz's, dc'ing from that or purposely leaving them, why haven't you added the ability for us to see our group prior to accepting the queue as you do from Group finder in PvE?