I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

 

==================================================

Any Warzone

• The fundamental mechanics of starting a new match are flawed, in that matches VERY FREQUENTLY start as 8 vs (less than 8). A new system needs to be designed to prevent this from CONSTANTLY happening.
  
• Uneven Warzones cause the population-dominant side to crush the low-population side in PvP due to gear advantages gained thru disproportionate rewards.
  
• The system allows players to join warzones with only seconds left, thus destroying their queue position, wasting their time, and granting no rewards at all.
  
• Players in PvE can exploit by joining a warzone, getting buffs from the different classes, and then quitting and going back to PvE with full buffs. Leaving a warzone by any means (end of match, quitting, disconnecting) should cause you to lose all class-based buffs to prevent this exploit.
  

 

Ranked Warzones

• Game crashes from SWTOR cause you to lose ELO rating
  
• Reconnecting does not put you back into the warzone you crashed out of, like every other MMORPG ever written
  

 

Huttball

• having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose
  

 

Voidstar

• having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose
  

 

Novare Coast

• having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose
  
• opening cinematic serves no purpose and delays entry to the match
  

 

Open World

• There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP
  

Edited June 26, 2012 by Zaodon

I'm definately inclined to agree.

When you post design flaws maybe you should offer some solutions. Anyone can see problems but very few can actually offer some insight into fixing it.

When you post design flaws maybe you should offer some solutions. Anyone can see problems but very few can actually offer some insight into fixing it.

 

My goal is to maintain the list. Nothing more.

 

However, you are free to post your ideas.

I wonder if it would be more fun to move the starting area for each warzone to ground level and then allow people to use their own purchased speeders to move between objectives? You might need some form of obstacle to prevent people from farming the start points but still... Edited February 15, 2012 by SDFX

IMHO quitting warzones or AFK in warzones should make you lose valor.

 

It makes sense logically as quitting because you don't like the odds is the opposite of valor.

I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

 

===================================================

 

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

 

You have just described the only two scenarios for anyone even playing in PUG warzones- thus this is not a design flaw, it is a character flaw in people not wanting to play with well-known or obvious "baddies."

 

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

This is not part of the play area so again- it is for aesthetic purposes to emulate a gladiatorial arena approach- not a design flaw.

 

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

This was meant for first time joiners of the voidstar Warzone to establish the plotline as well as show them the map layout. Not a design flaw.

 

Civil War

- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

Really no idea what you are even saying here, the map is the same for both sides, identically.. there is equal opportunity to approach any of the three nodes.

 

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

The kill trading is a result of the imbalance on most pvp servers- not incentive to complete daily/weekly quotas, there are now objectives on the map that are approachable regardless of willingness to fight. It is well known to all that Ilum needs overhaul- it is a matter of how to do so in a fair and consistent way that is the issue. I suggest you close the thread until you have a bit more understanding of the community's needs.

 

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

For fun, this is after all: a video game.

Edited February 15, 2012 by moltig

Problem: Expertise

Solution: Crafted PvP gear

Reason: It's dreadful PvPing as a new 50 vs players with 400+ expertise and something needs to be done. If PvP gear can be crafted then at least players can more easily compete as opposed to attempting to PvP in quest gear. The quality of this gear should really only be rare(blue), in my opinion, offering a boost but still leaving room for improvement (ie. centurion, champion, battlemaster).

I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

 

===================================================

 

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

 

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

 

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

 

Civil War

- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

 

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

 

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

 

I'm not sure how to add incentive for people to stay in a warzone from beginning to end by adding a reward. Some people out there simply don't have need for the reward. A lot of people are leaving and just requeue trying to get into another warzone where they feel that they have a better chance of winning. So I would suggest rather than create a reward as incentive to stay ... create a penalty for leaving.

 

I don't see the long walk from the beginning of a huttball game a big deal at all. I'm going to assume you're referring to the rare case in which a player joins mid-game and gets kicked out because of this long walk through the tunnel. All I can say is perhaps they should be more prepared.

 

I agree with you completely on the voidstar thing.

 

I agree with you on the Civil War as well. I think the map in general is flawed in that some players seem to think just because they're camping the 1 objective that our team has control of they're providing us with much needed defense. This is not the case when our opponent has 2 objectives and that is all that is needed to win.

 

I will often find 2 or 3 people just standing around doing absolutely nothing collecting defender medals while the rest of the team is outnumbered banging our heads against a wall trying to take a much needed 2nd objective for any chance to win.

 

I suggest increasing the amount of damage the middle Turret does to the opposing teams ship so that there would be more incentive for both teams to go for that middle turret. Relieving the other two turrets (hopefully) of lazy campers who rarely ever contribute.

 

Not only will having both sides controlled allow a team a slight advantage when it comes to regrouping (its quicker to get to these sides if u use the right speeder when u respawn)

But they also provide the same benefit to a team when compared to holding a side and middle. There is no difference .. control 2 of the 3 objectives for the majority of time and your team wins. Increasing the damage output of the middle turret would slightly change this warzone in a good way.

 

World PvP (ilum) needs a complete overhaul. Again I agree with you.

Problem: Expertise

Solution: Crafted PvP gear

Reason: It's dreadful PvPing as a new 50 vs players with 400+ expertise and something needs to be done. If PvP gear can be crafted then at least players can more easily compete as opposed to attempting to PvP in quest gear. The quality of this gear should really only be rare(blue), in my opinion, offering a boost but still leaving room for improvement (ie. centurion, champion, battlemaster).

 

They said the same thing about operatives in the first 4 weeks of launch.

 

Geared operatives were destroying undergeared people which made the class overpowered. And the end result was "nerf"

 

Only now does someone like you realize the ultimate issue.

 

And that is a L2P issue.

 

All of the whiners got the 50's seperated and now the same arguement spawns again because new 50's haven't got it through their thick skulls you can't PVP in the 50's bracket with 11k HP. You can barely do it in full PVE gear as you do not have the damage reduction someone in full PVP gear has... Sure your damage numbers are there but your resistances are not. And these are factors most inexperienced PVP'ers ignore.

 

Don't Q for a warzone if you don't have level appropriate gear.

 

If you can't handle the 50's bracket then don't PVP.

 

This is afterall not a PVP game as so many people like to advocate.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ahebish

I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

 

===================================================

 

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

 

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

 

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

 

Civil War

- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

 

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

 

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

This is personal player choice, and its apparent in every single multiplayer game that ever existed. Nothing can be done to fix this, people will be people and do what they want. GET OVER IT.

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

Its a video game, its cosmetic, GET USE TO IT. This isnt even a flaw.

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

LATE joiners fault for being late. Its serves a purpose. Its part of lore. Its part of the story of the warzone. Get use to it.

Civil War

- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

both sides are identical and create the same strategic options on both sides. YOURE SUPPOSE to have HARD ACCESS to one side, easy access to one side and equal access to middle. WHAT POSSIBLE limited strategy is present with this. youre suppose to be almost completely garenteed 1 cap. youre being really facetious.

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

PLAYER CHooses to not have incentive. Dont ault player error on the developers. Pvpers are lazy and will always try to get something for little to nothing.

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

Same as above, the community have the tools, its their job to take the initiative to go with it. and i totally disagree there isnt any incentive.

OP I got a design flaw for all PvP, no purpose!

 

The great PvP MMOs DaoC, EvE, and SWG all had a reason to PvP. You were part of world and things you built or created could be destroyed. You got credits or whatever therefore the was a purpose to PvP.

 

In SWTOR the purpose to PvP is to get better gear so you can beat up on those with less gear ie: melt faces. The SWTOR worlds are dead, nothing is living, everything is created.

 

I consider this a design flaw to at least world pvp.

I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

 

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

 

 

 

Ilum is HORRIBLE. The lag that exists here is simply unacceptable. All Ilum is is a place to farm and grind for gear. I'm ashamed of Bioware for releasing this zone in such terrible shape.

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

This is personal player choice, and its apparent in every single multiplayer game that ever existed. Nothing can be done to fix this, people will be people and do what they want. GET OVER IT.

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

Its a video game, its cosmetic, GET USE TO IT. This isnt even a flaw.

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

LATE joiners fault for being late. Its serves a purpose. Its part of lore. Its part of the story of the warzone. Get use to it.

Civil War

- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

both sides are identical and create the same strategic options on both sides. YOURE SUPPOSE to have HARD ACCESS to one side, easy access to one side and equal access to middle. WHAT POSSIBLE limited strategy is present with this. youre suppose to be almost completely garenteed 1 cap. youre being really facetious.

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

PLAYER CHooses to not have incentive. Dont ault player error on the developers. Pvpers are lazy and will always try to get something for little to nothing.

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

Same as above, the community have the tools, its their job to take the initiative to go with it. and i totally disagree there isnt any incentive.

 

Go away fan boy you have no idea about what an MMO could be

I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

 

===================================================

 

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end.

-FIX. put penalties in, such as but not limited to 30 min start lockouts for pvp.

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

-FIX. implement mercenary badges on wins. 30 for each win should suffice. where as some classes get 40 points and some more than 100 for a shared win.

- Matching system is broken. leavers get teamed against premades and some teams have only healers VS dps.

-FIX. create a matching system that takes into account speccs classes and gear (score) (expertise etc) and match up almost identical or as close to identical as you can get. Valor ranks included

 

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

FIX. take out the tunnel. remove it. place concrete from start to finish.

 

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

-FIX. Have each pvp WZ in a specific TAB where you can turn off speeder rides. 'Welcome to huttball' explanations and slow sith lorry rides. (they do get annoying)

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose.

-FIX. give us the ability to take away movie cinematics (not sure if the gameplay one works there)

 

Civil War

 

 

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

-FIX. revamp entire ILUM it is broken and needs a fix. badly.

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

-FIX. ILUM should be buried and its name never mentioned again. this planet is a farse. a headache and noone willingly goes to get a headache.

 

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP.

-FIX. Open world pvp should be a heavily grindable Planet. with lots of elite mobs that drop very good loot. also alot of crew skill boxes. loot etc. HOWEVER. this planet should NOT be large. very small and open to bothfactions.

I will maintain this thread as the definitive PvP Design Flaw list.

 

See also: Definitive PVP Bug List

 

===================================================

 

Any Warzone

- Incentive to Win for Daily/Weekly causes quitting rather than playing through to the end

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to farm badges outweighs incentive to win the match

 

Huttball

- having a long entrance tunnel prior to the actual entry point serves no purpose

 

Voidstar

- The long initial speeder ride as first defender is useless and can delay late joiners

- having to press "space bar" at the beginning serves no purpose

 

Civil War

- Walls which connect to the starting platform create "favored" sides, limiting strategic options

-Instant respawn times, not throttled like in other WZs, makes defending nodes too easy, and makes matches less exciting.

-Dots currently interrupt the capture function.

 

Ilum

- Incentive to complete Daily/Weekly causes kill trading and crate sharing rather than PvP

- After daily/weekly are done, incentive to stay in Ilum is weak (valor gain only, which virtually ceases at Valor Rank 60)

 

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

 

My adjustments in yellow.

signed!

Dots also interupt you from chanelling your class healing ability after a fight for a good 10 sec, if they use the speeders (or in voidstar you're near their respawn area for eg.) you're as good as dead.

 

I heard there was an item that used to heal you instantly (ooc) for 50% of your max hp ?

 

Ah, someone just whispered me this was nerfed to the ground baby. Guess what, dot classes are even more powerfull than before for defensive nodes/doors purposes

 

(that is until we see competent dispell classes players that l2use their ability )

Open World

- There is no incentive to engage in open world PvP

Same as above, the community have the tools, its their job to take the initiative to go with it. and i totally disagree there isnt any incentive.

 

Not that I personally NEED incentive to participate in world PvP, but when the game rewards warzones and Ilum, and gives nothing for open world PvP, it kills open world PvP. In other words, why waste time going from planet to planet looking for a fight and get absolutely nothing (besides fun), when you can stand in fleet, queue up for mini-games, and profit? Either offer incentive for ALL PvP, or none at all.

 

OP I got a design flaw for all PvP, no purpose!

 

The great PvP MMOs DaoC, EvE, and SWG all had a reason to PvP. You were part of world and things you built or created could be destroyed. You got credits or whatever therefore the was a purpose to PvP.

 

In SWTOR the purpose to PvP is to get better gear so you can beat up on those with less gear ie: melt faces. The SWTOR worlds are dead, nothing is living, everything is created.

 

I consider this a design flaw to at least world pvp.

 

Also. This, this, this, X1000. I love PvP, but not I'm not really into the whole instanced quick-match scene. Right now, the only PvP purpose is to gear up by grinding warzones, so you can play more warzones. So, I'm basically gearing up to do something I don't really dig all that much.

updated

For fun, this is after all: a video game.

 

Put the keyboard down please.

 

 

OP, I disagree about Alderaan. Yes, it limits options a little, but it is designed to be a risk and reward, and I don't think its that bad.

 

Voidstar and Huttball need some changes. Voidstar is obviously broke because of the speeder. Huttball is just poorly designed and imba towards jedi. Not sure what to say about Huttball. I think maybe they could improve the ramp design to make it a little more balanced.

Edited February 16, 2012 by finetop

Updated

A wz team with healers has an extreme advantage over one without.

 

Make the queue system give every team at least one healer if available.

Problem: Expertise

Solution: Crafted PvP gear

Reason: It's dreadful PvPing as a new 50 vs players with 400+ expertise and something needs to be done. If PvP gear can be crafted then at least players can more easily compete as opposed to attempting to PvP in quest gear. The quality of this gear should really only be rare(blue), in my opinion, offering a boost but still leaving room for improvement (ie. centurion, champion, battlemaster).

 

This will be "fixed" in 1.2, although there was already a perfectly viable solution to begin with.

 

Earn 200/200 comms, buy a champ bag and bank it.

Then, proceed to earn 580 comms six to nine times depending on your oranges and buy the best item for your class/spec with the highest Expertise mod from the PvP weapons vendor.

Strip off the mod/enhancement with the expertise. Load that into your orange gear.

Now save up 1000/1000 comms prior to making level 50.

 

As soon as you ding 50, open your first vendor champ bag, then buy/open five more.

You now have ~18-25exp * 6 (or up to 9) for your orange gear.

But wait there's more. You also have 90 Centurion comms and 42 champion comms.

Use these to buy your cheap stuff, I recommend getting a relic with your 42 champ comms and things like ear/implants and whatever else you can afford with the remainder of cent comms.

 

So, stepping onto the field as a "fresh 50", you will still have expertise on nearly every piece of gear (with the exception of one relic). I'd have to look at my old cent gear to get firm numbers, but I know a guildie of mine has over 5% expertise at level 48.

updated for 1.2 patch