They shouldn't have made Companions gear dependent. And really, outside of the original storyline where you get them, they don't add much to the storyline, so they just become extensions of your character. Edited February 16, 2012 by MalignX

Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction.

 

We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits.

 

I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works.

 

That would be an improvement for sure. If it's an upgrade for your main then you roll Need, if you just want it for a companion then you roll Greed, that's how it should be.

Edited February 16, 2012 by MorgonKara

If you EVER roll Need on gear for your comp when someone of that class is in your group, you are a greedy, selfish person who is ruining someone else's experience.

 

Whilst i have never actually rolled 'NEED' for a companion, a friend of mine has put forth a good argument for a case for such rolling...

 

Leveling from 1-50 (and indeed even doing dailies) requires you to use a companion to play effectively often needing a specific companion that best compliments your playstyle. (Yes it is possible to play without a companion but it is also possible to play with your character naked too...)

 

For example a DPS or Tank companion for a healer player is pretty vital for YOUR leveling.

 

When leveling my Sage i was gearing my tank companion (and later Nadia) as best i could, even if it meant neglecting my Sage from time to time because it meant leveling a lot easier, even able to solo Heroic 2+/4 often.

 

Essentially, your companion is a part of your character and in the 1-49 game your still very reliant on that companion so why should you pass on items that are still going to improve you (via your companion tanking better so you can solo better) for random strangers?

 

My argument AGAINST that standpoint was that at level 50 you no longer need to level and thus should not be rolling NEED for companions in the top level flashpoints, but i would honestly forgive anyone for rolling need for companion on content prior to that. (personally i still would not myself)

Rolling need for a companion is like rolling need for a twink. It's not something I would do. It's wrong in my book.

 

If you want to set the ground rules for loot as FFA then go ahead. Just be upfront with the rest of the group.

my opinion on this :

 

- Some Class need gears for their companion that wear different kind of gear than your toon. smuggler n sage got starting companion that uses heavy armor. Trooper is exception as all companion wears heavy except droids.

 

- currently the most "acceptable" way to roll for companion is when no one need the item, and when everyone in party agree if you asked for need roll. You should ask for it. Never roll need for companion if no one agrees. that jedi sage healer that roll greed on heavy armor might also looking to gear up his/ her companion too.. so ask before need

 

- if it can be forced by system / by loot system then bioware can add a roll system that allow ppl to roll need if their class can use it, so a sage can only need on light armor, a smuggler can only need on medium and trooper can need on heavy.. that will solve the ninjaing problem

 

regards.

They shouldn't have made Companions gear dependent. And really, outside of the original storyline where you get them, they don't add much to the storyline, so they just become extensions of your character.

But companions ARE gear dependent, which is why the old loot rules aren't necessarily appropriate. Allowing them to wear the same gear as everyone else gives you a lot more flexibility in gearing them up and means that the developers don't have to spend a great deal of effort designing a parallel gear system for companions. However, it also means that we need to get them gear if we wish to progress in the game.

When leveling my Sage i was gearing my tank companion (and later Nadia) as best i could, even if it meant neglecting my Sage from time to time because it meant leveling a lot easier, even able to solo Heroic 2+/4 often.

My Smuggler's companion gets more benefit from better armor than my main character does, since she does most of the tanking for me.

Rolling need for a companion is like rolling need for a twink. It's not something I would do. It's wrong in my book. If you want to set the ground rules for loot as FFA then go ahead. Just be upfront with the rest of the group.

If you are the one that is insisting that "your book" is the one that should be applied, then you are the one that should speak up at the beginning of the group. EDIT: companions are NOT twinks. They are part of your character and are needed for progressing in the game.

- currently the most "acceptable" way to roll for companion is when no one need the item, and when everyone in party agree if you asked for need roll. You should ask for it. Never roll need for companion if no one agrees. that jedi sage healer that roll greed on heavy armor might also looking to gear up his/ her companion too.. so ask before need

Personally, I would prefer that we don't have to stop every few minutes to have a discussion about loot. You should just press need on what you need and greed on what you don't and move on. We could be rolling on a new set of loot by the time the conversation is over sometimes.

 

If they do add a "need for companion" button, I would like to see it roll with the "need" rolls, but with a penalty of -30 to -50. This would give the people that want it for their main characters an advantage, but would not lock out others completely. Greed rolls would only happen if noone pressed either need or need-for-companion.

 

In any case, if "need" has any meaning at all, needing for companions should have priority over people wanting to vendor an item. In reality, of course, nobody really "needs" any loot.

 

EDIT: If they limit people to rolling need only for gear they can use, then companions in flashpoints should get their own roll for gear that they can use.

 

Side question: why is there so much companion hate?

Edited February 16, 2012 by sjmc

Rolling need for a companion is like rolling need for a twink.

No, rolling for a twink helps a different character. Rolling for a companion helps the character that is doing the rolling.

 

You can self-rationalize any way you want.

So, does that means you can't actually defend your stance?

 

I mean, I'm being straightforward: I don't see why you think one person's wants are more important than another. They both want something to improve their character, yet you think that one should be ineligible for some reason. They both put in the same effort to get the item, and both have the same "need*" for it. If you think that the default loot rules should be changed to accommodate your arbitrary rules of who is or isn't eligible, you should really be able to say why you think that's the case.

 

*need in loot is kind of a red herring; it just means "I want it and will use it to make my play experience better directly instead of selling it and doing so indirectly"

 

It is easy to determine what piece of gear is the best match for a class.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the quoted text...

Many people says that they roll Need because they can and they have all the right to get an item for their companions, saying they have paid for the game and all that bla bla bla. But later they are the same people that complain because someone else speak in the general chat with their own language. Wait a second! They do it because they can, they have all the right and they have paid for the game too!

 

You can be selfish and click Need to all, or you can be less selfish and click Need for the items that you need for yourself, or ask if you can roll Need for an item of your companion. This way all will get the items that need most faster and all happy. In the other way? We would **** each other all the time.

 

It's like the guy that has lost and ask to another person about how to arrive to a determinate street. We can help each other or we can just lie or ignore the person that ask us for help, and then when we would need help, probably the others will do the same to us. So in other words, we can choose to help each other or **** each other.

 

Probably if most of the people prefers to be so selfish at the end all people will be selfish and will happen like what happens in WoW, that everyone will push Need to all items and getting that item that you really want would be 10 times harder, because at the 10th try it will drop and 4 people will click Need, when maybe 2 of them want it for the companion and the other wants to sell it and win 5.000 credits.

 

Well, it's only a game, do what you want. But of course, clicking to Need to all without thinking if maybe someone else can need more that item is selfish.

 

Anyway, i have to say that i havent found in SWTOR anyone that has clicked Need to items for his companion without asking first.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Shaligal

Thanks! I honestly hate when people are like "needing for comp" Im like well hell if I would've known you'd done that then I would press need for every single item that drops ya greedy bastard, anyway glad this is happening

 

I so totally agree.

Companions are not playing with the group and are not entitled to Need roll as these companions do not benefit the group. Greed is the category for this.

It totally boggles my mind how (as happened to me) a tank can see that I, as a sage, need willpower items for my character and yet he rolls need for whatever purpose.

One person told me, I need it to sell it for credits.

Edited February 16, 2012 by msdixi

I do now roll Need for my companion. I play a Shadow Tank and use Nadia as my main companion. HM FPs can't give me an upgrade anymore. They can, however, upgrade a few slots on Nadia and therefore build up my DPS gear-set as well should i want to switch to DPS. Is this not fair? What if i wanted to change to DPS? If i was playing DPS in stead of Tank, would that make it fair? What's the difference?

 

I still only roll Need for Consular gear if there are no other Consulars in the group, but at the same time, it is for my companion really. I also wear some bad armor on the slot that i know drops in the FP, before my pugs inspect me. That way they think i'm rolling for myself so they don't get mad.

 

They're not mad. They couldn't use it for themselves anyway. I'm happy. Nadia's happy. I build my DPS set. Everyone's happy!

I still only roll Need for Consular gear if there are no other Consulars in the group, but at the same time, it is for my companion really. I also wear some bad armor on the slot that i know drops in the FP, before my pugs inspect me. That way they think i'm rolling for myself so they don't get mad.

 

I dont see a problem at all to roll for a Consular item if there isnt any other Consular in the group. And i will add more, i dont see a problem at all if there is another Consular in the party but he doesnt need it.

 

Anyway, if you think that Nadia is happy, you have a problem XD

Edited February 16, 2012 by Shaligal

Iam no expert on the rolling system..

 

I normally only need on a items if it directly increases my stats

etc and i can use it on my own character , ive never rolled for a item

for my companion normally if possible i filter down items and or

create or buy them for companion.. but yeah i think using

common sence and asking for need for companion makes sence

there will always be ninja's though unless they can improve

the rolling system..

 

How often ive come accros a chest guarded by a elite

mob.. fighting it just so someone else cna run up and

steal the chest.. , i wish they would lock the chest

and put a key or something on the elite mob

guarding it so the one(s) fighting it will only have acces to it

after the fight.

I also wear some bad armor on the slot that i know drops in the FP, before my pugs inspect me. That way they think i'm rolling for myself so they don't get mad.

 

 

Words fail me.

EDIT: I realize that my original post is unnecessarily confrontational, and has ignited a pointless debate, so I will re-state the original (which follows below).

 

 

Dear People who are New to Need/Greed:

 

IF you roll "Need" on a drop that your character can't use, but other people in the group can, you run the risk of being booted from the group, being /ignored, and generally, lessening your chances of finding a decent group going forward. That is the sizable risk you take by rolling "Need" on gear your character can't equip, when there is another character in the group who CAN equip it.

 

IF you do this, some people will perceive you to be: a) a ninja, b) a selfish person, and/or c)

a person to avoid in the future.

 

Just a friendly word to people who are new to the Need/Greed system.

 

 

 

Original post follows:

 

 

Do not roll "Need" for companion gear.

 

Period.

 

It's bad enough that some people think it is ok to roll Need on gear for their companions while other people who can use the gear are in your group.

 

What's worse is that the game allows this.

 

If you EVER roll Need on gear for your comp when someone of that class is in your group, you are a greedy, selfish person who is ruining someone else's experience.

 

Need for companions = Need for alts

 

 

Don't look down

 

All of this is wrong.

 

The truth is - as has been stated a billion times - do not enter a group until you have established clear need/greed rules.

 

Communication is right. Enforcing your own social standards on others through intimidation is wrong.

Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction.

 

We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits.

 

I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works.

 

I am sorry, but I do not see how someone's "need" for a companion character should outweigh another person's "need" to sell the item to buy themselves stims. Groups and players should decide what is a "need" and what is a "greed" for themselves. Adding a new button and taking away the ability to click "need" on an item is fail IMO. If you do this, you need to add in a 1hr - 24hr time window where items can be traded among the group members that were in the group when the kill happened (24 hour time window for trading items is available in other games and has solved a lot of loot problems).

@OP

 

This is a MCPS not a SCPS

 

no one will be able to stop you from beign a theif

There is no community in a themepark game

 

 

thanks for playing

I so totally agree.

Companions are not playing with the group and are not entitled to Need roll as these companions do not benefit the group.

 

No the companion is not rolling nor playing. The character is playing and rolling. That you got to the roll part means you all succeeded in downing the mob. Each player is entitled to roll.

 

That's the facts. Where you make the mistake is in the part where you think your opinion of what each player should roll. Your opinion does not count. it is none of your business. You get to roll, so do the other players. That's all you need to know and care about.

 

Greed is the category for this.

 

Again, this is your opinion. Do not force it on others.

 

 

It totally boggles my mind how (as happened to me) a tank can see that I, as a sage, need willpower items for my character and yet he rolls need for whatever purpose.

 

Maybe he needed it for his healer companion? Did you get to roll on the item? Did you win it? If not, then that's that. What more do you want?

 

One person told me, I need it to sell it for credits.

 

While the 'need' may be valid, I'm sure it would not be 'right'. Credits are easy to get.

I guess I've been lucky. People in my groups watch for everyone to roll greed or pass, then they ask if they can need it for companion. The answer is universally "Yes".

 

It's nice that they ask first. It seems to make the whole group happier, and that's always a good thing when trying to work together to finish a FP or Op.

I do now roll Need for my companion. I play a Shadow Tank and use Nadia as my main companion. HM FPs can't give me an upgrade anymore. They can, however, upgrade a few slots on Nadia and therefore build up my DPS gear-set as well should i want to switch to DPS. Is this not fair? What if i wanted to change to DPS? If i was playing DPS in stead of Tank, would that make it fair? What's the difference?

 

I still only roll Need for Consular gear if there are no other Consulars in the group, but at the same time, it is for my companion really. I also wear some bad armor on the slot that i know drops in the FP, before my pugs inspect me. That way they think i'm rolling for myself so they don't get mad.

 

They're not mad. They couldn't use it for themselves anyway. I'm happy. Nadia's happy. I build my DPS set. Everyone's happy!

 

...Why dont you just try being honest with them ... because trust me people will figure it out and you know what...they will black list you.

 

 

Honesty is the best policy just ask if you can roll for your companion on some stuff people tend to not mind if your up front with them unless your taking gear from someone in the group.

Need vs. greed isn't as simple in our game because of companions, as well as Orange Gear and mod extraction.

 

We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for, and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits.

 

I don't have a timeline on this for you guys right now, though - certainly not in the next major patch. In the meantime, I strongly recommend that players who care clearly decide the expected need/greed role behaviors ('no companion need rolling or you're out!') when a group is initially formed. In the meantime, I'll work on getting this feature in the works.

 

You know, I've worked in software development for some 30 years. I've never heard of this idea where-by you get something so blatantly wrong, and instead of fixing it, like that players of the non-matching class just cannot press the need button, you actually add another button.

 

If a PM brought this to me in my office, I'd fire him/her.

Was done with this thread, but saw in the dev tracker a dev finally commented on this topic after God knows how many threads/posts about it. Good to see devs finally agree with us that think it's BS to allow straight up "need" rolls for companions.

 

You know, I've worked in software development for some 30 years. I've never heard of this idea where-by you get something so blatantly wrong, and instead of fixing it, like that players of the non-matching class just cannot press the need button, you actually add another button.

 

If a PM brought this to me in my office, I'd fire him/her.

 

I don't see a problem. They'll still have a "need" button that will be limited to classes that the gear is stat appropriate for, and they'll add something like "companion need" if you're rolling for companions or to strip out mods, and leaving "greed" if you're just going to sell it. IMO this is how it should have been at launch.

Was done with this thread, but saw in the dev tracker a dev finally commented on this topic after God knows how many threads/posts about it. Good to see devs finally agree with us that think it's BS to allow straight up "need" rolls for companions.

 

 

 

I don't see a problem. They'll still have a "need" button that will be limited to classes that the gear is stat appropriate for, and they'll add something like "companion need" if you're rolling for companions or to strip out mods, and leaving "greed" if you're just going to sell it. IMO this is how it should have been at launch.

 

Why not just have the need button shown to players that can actually 'use' it? Why add yet another button? So, I can press the 'need' button, but it won't work, because I don't match the class?

 

 

What happens if the gear is appropriate to all classes? Can I 'need' and then give the win to the companion?

 

All this is going to do is add more opinions and complexity to an already archaic system.

Why not just have the need button shown to players that can actually 'use' it? Why add yet another button? So, I can press the 'need' button, but it won't work, because I don't match the class?

 

Haven't seen the interface since it's not even in testing, but I'd guess the need button will be grayed out if it's not class appropriate.

 

What happens if the gear is appropriate to all classes? Can I 'need' and then give the win to the companion?

 

Sure...why not?

 

All this is going to do is add more opinions and complexity to an already archaic system.

 

What system do you recommend if this is archaic? Just pass/roll? No thanks.

What system do you recommend if this is archaic? Just pass/roll? No thanks.

 

So if the gear is not class dependent;

 

<Need>

<Need For Companion>

<Greed>

<Pass>

 

I press <Need>. Then.. Hey that's not for your class.. Me: It's for my companions class Then, But you should have pressed <Need for Companion>, Me: bah.. I need I press Need ..

 

 

And we're off on the same 6 thread thousands of posts long again.

 

What's wrong with Pass/Roll?

 

PROs

It's faster

It's neater

It's appropriate

It's works with no fuss

 

CONs

Players don't get to whine like babies because they lost something they 'think' they had an entitlement to, which they never had.

Was done with this thread, but saw in the dev tracker a dev finally commented on this topic after God knows how many threads/posts about it. Good to see devs finally agree with us that think it's BS to allow straight up "need" rolls for companions.

 

 

 

I don't see a problem. They'll still have a "need" button that will be limited to classes that the gear is stat appropriate for, and they'll add something like "companion need" if you're rolling for companions or to strip out mods, and leaving "greed" if you're just going to sell it. IMO this is how it should have been at launch.

 

Agreed. The amount of butt-hurt and QQ from the "I want to need on everything" crowd puts a smile right on my face.