This is more or less correct. There's basically nothing the T2S can do in TDM that the T1F doesn't do just as well and with better survivability. There are always going to be edge cases, but generally speaking, you should save the scout for domination and try something else in TDM.

In TDM? Nah. In domination absolutely, but in deathmatch a scout is at a significant enough disadvantage that this isn't true.

So I actually disagree with this. Circumstantially it can be true, but its not a given. I actually stopped flying traditional Piledriver a long time ago, because as I became more and more proficient with a Scout, I found Piledriver to be too limiting. I got used to being able to attack any target from any angle, where as with long range weapons on a Strike, you are very limited in your attack vectors, and its too easy for someone to get evasive, meaning you have zero chance acquiring an angle on them if they don't let you. Just how many times have you evaded a Strike with heavy lasers and protons, in your GS? Its all too easy to do. But what if that person is flying a Scout? Suddenly its not so easy to evade them, not if they are good! This was why I switched to Rapids / Heavies Piledriver + Concussions. It gives you more versatility in TDM, closer to what a Scout can do. Ideally I'd like to run double turning with it, which is the perfect Strike build for me. At Iokath its a no brainer because I have EO's to play with, but at LS and Kuat, you can end up running out of engines.

As for survivability, Its really situational. There are times when I find the more tanky Strike to be better, there are times when I find evasion + disto to be better. And this is why I made my hybrid Scout build for TDM. BLC + Clusters, Single turning, Regen thrusters, Disto, Retro thrusters, Reinforced armor, and TT with extra evasion and range options, + range cap, and Hnydrospanner. You can mitigate chip damage with spanner. You can survive a Proton. But you also definitely don't eat Protons as much as you do in a Strike. You have a tonne of evasion still, and more if you have an EO. And using range cap and range on TT means you can now joust Strikes without being at a range disadvantage. Factor in having a DO and timing your cooldowns and its easy peasy. You've still got more turning than a double turning strike, but you can boost for days because you have regen thrusters. I love this build for TDM, and there are not many situations where I feel I would rather be in a Strike. Certainly no more than the times I need to ditch the Strike for a GS. If I ditch this Scout build in TDM, its for a Gunship, which would have happened if I'd been in a Strike too. Sometimes I fly my Strike and really miss Disto, knowing this Scout build lets me do things a Strike can't do. I did 100 Scout games with that build, and only a few times felt myself wanting a Strike. Most times that you see on my videos me flying a Strike in TDM, its because I don't have a 2nd Scout on the bar to dedicate it to this TDM build.

Your post could explain why it’s infinitely more satisfying to get a 15 kill scout win vs a 15 kill strike win.

This. If you top the board in a Scout, everyone knows you did a better job than them, even if they won't admit it. Because most of those high scoring Strike pilots still can't get the same results in a Scout. I am not going to deny it, that's why I like them. Tiera - a phenomenal Scout Ace - once told me a Scout is the way to show off your skill. When I was maining Strikes, it was Scouts I dearly wished I could fly, and Ace Scout pilots I most admired. Seeing them still wreck a TDM in a Scout, was the ultimate, and still is, highest definition of "you've made it as a pilot."

Really great conversation about Scouts, but getting back on topic of "How to Win," I had a match last night that typified everything I talked about in this post. It was an absolute nail biter. I started in a GS, had to deal with being pestered by numerous people at the start. One guy began to pester me more than anyone else, so Ship Adaptability came into it, and choosing a build that would counter him without slowing me down.Target selection became critical - there were bombers patrolling areas which my team were feeding into. Map awareness was essential to not die too much - not over reaching. And perhaps most of all - that never give up attitude. The belief that it could still be turned around, despite trailing by as much as 7 points with moments to go. And finally, all important DO control.

Did we win? That's for you to watch....

And I don’t dare go to Super Serious Night, I would get absolutely demolished.

Well, getting demolished is part of the Super Serious experience.

The thing is though, in Super Serious matches, you don't just get demolished, you get expertly demolished.

I like it because it's an opportunity for education in GSF. If you know enough of the basics so you can recognize what's going on, a Super Serious match is a great place to see where your own flying could improve, and also to see what some of the best pilots in the game are doing that make them the best.

The line in terms of skill where a Serious event is or is not useful to a pilot is this: If what you see is, "I just died a lot," then Super Serious isn't much use, but if what you see is "I died a lot because of reason a, reason b, reason c, and they were doing tactic d way better than I do," then Super Serious can be beneficial even if you do spend most of your time getting demolished.

Looking for that in an analytical way, saying, "I lost, and I lost for these reasons," is a big step in learning to fly and learning to win. If you can figure out what's going wrong you can do something to change it. If you just get mad because it was a loss and don't think about it, then it's much harder and slower to get better.

Well, getting demolished is part of the Super Serious experience.

 

The thing is though, in Super Serious matches, you don't just get demolished, you get expertly demolished.

 

I like it because it's an opportunity for education in GSF. If you know enough of the basics so you can recognize what's going on, a Super Serious match is a great place to see where your own flying could improve, and also to see what some of the best pilots in the game are doing that make them the best.

 

The line in terms of skill where a Serious event is or is not useful to a pilot is this: If what you see is, "I just died a lot," then Super Serious isn't much use, but if what you see is "I died a lot because of reason a, reason b, reason c, and they were doing tactic d way better than I do," then Super Serious can be beneficial even if you do spend most of your time getting demolished.

 

Looking for that in an analytical way, saying, "I lost, and I lost for these reasons," is a big step in learning to fly and learning to win. If you can figure out what's going wrong you can do something to change it. If you just get mad because it was a loss and don't think about it, then it's much harder and slower to get better.

I'm going to err on the side of saying Super Serious is not for anyone much below Ace level. Very strong veteran at least. The clue is kind of in the name. If you start putting people in super serious matches who are not extremely good, then they are no longer super serious matches. You can learn all of the above from normal matches. I love training people and I love watching them get better, but super serious matches are meant to be where top level pilots can experience the game at a top tier level, without worrying about having someone on their team who is not cut out for it.

Well, having been here for the early era of Super Serious events, I have a somewhat different perspective.

Firstly, there's a large element of humor in the naming. It's partly a satire on how people have the, "[fill in the blank] IS SRZS BUSINESS SO STOP SUCKING OR GO AWAY" attitude toward part of a computer game. And making fun of how people get into rants because they're taking that attitude when they're new to a game mode and get SOOO upset because they're losing. Super Serious yeah, in some ways, but some of the participants might be having a hard time keeping a straight face on the both parts of that name.

It was mostly sort of a way of trying to partly solve the problem of having matches where there are a bunch of pilots on both sides that want to fly well, try hard to win, and won't go on salty rants in chat because they didn't. There was no way to exclude people because custom matches didn't exist, so we could pick servers where the event was during non-prime hours, and do a bit of queue dodging because the PvP lockout didn't exist yet either, but there was nothing stopping basically anyone from showing up. In general, if people wanted to try it and mentioned it in chat, they generally got an invite, and if that presented balancing problems, then people might swap groups, but in an open queue, you got some low skill pilots no matter what. If they're willing to be in that sort of match, then it's really not an issue, especially if the game mode is DOM.

As someone who predominantly solo queues, I certainly wasn't ready for my first Super Serious event.

Provided that the person is willing to do their best for the team, and they have the maturity to bow out before having an emotional meltdown if there are a string of losses, it's generally fine. If you're setting a goalpost for skill development in GSF, holding your own in a Super Serious event is a nice ambition to have, and seeing what can be done really motivates some people to learn.

In any case, a prime concern for Super Serious events has always been having enough warm bodies to have an event in first place. Being excessively picky or exclusive isn't sensible. If people are far enough in over their heads, they generally say thanks and bow out after one or two matches in any case. It typically doesn't make that much difference when they do. It's more about their comfort level with losses or feeling like a burden than effects on the matches. Keep in mind that with chat and voice both active on the fly tutoring is pretty viable. Hanging with the gunships in a bomber or T3F to provide heals and peels is a reasonable task for someone not fully confident in their skill in a Super Serious setting. In the long run, whether they show up for the next Super Serious event is more important to Super Serious events than how they do in the current one.

In general if they have the interest and the maturity to handle a Super Serious night, they're a good GSF pilot. They might be a good pilot in the future rather than at the moment, but anyone who's willing to hang out for a whole event is very unlikely to be a low skill pilot in the long term, because they have the attitude that's the building block that all the rest of "how to win" is built on top of.

Luc wat de hail? You ready to come out of retirement yet?

The scout conversation was EXACTLY what I have been on here looking for last couple days. The last time I read through this post it stopped after the power up conversation. Getting perspective from so many good pilots is priceless. Going to keep sifting for more conversations like this. Think I will try Lucs TDM build from page 3 for a while. looks more beginner friendly.

Ramalina _ had I known that's what super serious night was about I would have signed on. Was pretty intimidated and wimped out. I get my butt kicked all of the time. Next time I won't miss the chance to take a beating while learning, time slots allowing. Also I get like 400 ping on darth malgus so I don't fly there.

I am still daunted by the things I need to work toward to achieve the legendary 80% win rate. I thought I wasn't terrible when I first came to the forums. After you guys straightened me out and Luc got me going on the cluster missile challenge I thought I am doing alright - definitely no ace just feeling confident to hold my own. Then I put only a scout on my bar for a few weeks.... yeah back to feeling like I should stick with candy crush. Slump is an understatement lol.

Maybe starting to seem redundant by now but I really do appreciate you guys unselfishly sharing all the good stuff.

pewpewpewpewpewpew

"How to win....."

Fly with a group of your friends that try to work to win.

If you solo queue, you are playing the odds, which isnt in your favor.

And which is why I love solo queueing, lol

How to win,,,

1--Vote kick right away the same people that do 0`s all across the board,,write tickets with a screenshot at the end,,,tonight the same person suicided on avarage 10-14 times a match,even blabing on chat he doesnt care.

2--this is how go in fight,,I look on the map for power ups and quickly get 1st the speed then 2nd the shield boosts,,everyone goes for damage,,once I got both I head right away for the gunships face to face the moment i break the 1500m range and press F2 by that time my 2 boosts are half way thru and I lock on with my proton torpedo as I close in as fast till he turns fully red while holding the missle without shooting any lazers,,just holding on the missle lock,,just as im 4000m away i let go of the missle and at the same time pop remote slicing and fly right thru as both hit together and find cover fast as they come off cd,,or find the next shield boost,,,,garantee 100% accuracy every match and with proton torps you can be top in damage too,,i use lazers only to get rid of repair or hypergate drones.

Number 1 works wen you write tickets,,after a few days of writing about the same person,they no longer appear the rest of the week,,Per for one hasnt ben seen for weeks..

A perfect example of what I am talking about.

This was a game from last night. I lost, but it was winnable. Full disclosure, this is a high kill count game. But the intention is not to brag, its to show you why I lost and what I could have done differently.

 

I end up with a Scoreline of 34-2-4-100k. Most people are going to look at that scoreline, in a match that ended 42-50, and say, you did all you could. That's just matchmaker...... right? Wrong. This is a perfect example of the mentality I am talking about. I let my foot off the gas at the start. It looked early on like the match was going to be a walkover. So I went into cruise mode. You can visibly see the point where I start to work faster, to work harder, because I realize the match is not going the way it looked to be going. There is also one self destruct. If I had played the whole game at 100%, rather than only three quarters of it, and if I hadn't destructed, I am confident I could have snatched the win here. It would have ended up being 40 kills to do it, but that's the difference with people who can net 80% win ratios. They look at a match like this and still blame themselves for the loss. They don't accept that matchmaker and luck were not on their side. Then they correct what they saw, for the next time the same situation arises.

 

I know Luc probably can't respond to this atm, but I couldn't for ages so here it is.

If you set the bar too high for yourself, you ultimately end up burning out. Frustration grows, people harass you and your own teammates will sabotage you.

Sure, there are ways to PROTECT your win rate. Even I do that on certain ships, like one my strikes is 97-1 or so and a skybolt that's over 100+ with just 5 losses. You can alt so people won't recognize you for a while. You can group with strong people to dramatically reduce your chance of losing. You can avoid playing at all when you know a really strong team is in queue. But, in the end its just artificially inflated. No matter how good one is as an individual, there is only so much one person can do on a weaker team versus a much stronger one.

When you're noticeably better than others, people take notice. And it's not just the "aces" but people who show a solid understanding of the fundamentals. I've had matches where an entire team (more or less) has pursued me because I was the only one doing any real damage. In turn, I've also tended to prioritize the players most likely to inflict heavy damage upon my own team. But the dynamic changes depending on the players involved.

For a final example - I had two matches the other day with someone I can humbly admit is a better pilot. But while there is a gap, its not a large one. The first match he did twice my damage and was just shy of double my kill count and it ended 430-1000. He definitely had the stronger team and it was reflected on the scoreboard. The match after I topped board 10-0 deathless with him barely breaking even 6-6. It wasn't our skills that changed, but the team dynamic as a "premade" group also ended up on my team so said pilot was constantly engaging 3 plus pilots at any given time and only one of his/her teammates was able to keep up against the stacked teams.

The reason it stands out for me is because one of the guys gloated about it, willfully ignorant of how poorly he/she would do if the roles were reversed.

TLDR - striving to win will burn you out if you don't recognize losing situations beyond your control. Striving to improve is a much healthier goal. You can't control your teammates or ultimately who's in queue. The better you get as a player the more often you will win games you would have otherwise lost previously.