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Seasons and Black-Core Yellow Crystals


P-Chan

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Look. I know this item was a pre-order bonus. But its been a DECADE. Most, if not all, of the people who had this crystal dont play anymore, and I havent seen one in a few years now.

 

With how the Seasons thing is going, where we can buy/earn items we had previously missed out on for whatever reason (like being in a bad financial situation), how likely would it be that we see these crystals become a reward for the Seasons? This has been, possibly, the most requested thing I have seen over the years, and now we have the perfect mechanic to re-release it! Its been long enough, let the Crystal be enjoyed once again!

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Look. I know this item was a pre-order bonus. But its been a DECADE. Most, if not all, of the people who had this crystal dont play anymore, and I havent seen one in a few years now.

 

With how the Seasons thing is going, where we can buy/earn items we had previously missed out on for whatever reason (like being in a bad financial situation), how likely would it be that we see these crystals become a reward for the Seasons? This has been, possibly, the most requested thing I have seen over the years, and now we have the perfect mechanic to re-release it! Its been long enough, let the Crystal be enjoyed once again!

 

If you never had it, how could you enjoy it once again?

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I disagree.

 

I didn't buy the CE version of the game when it came out and don't deserve the reward (access to the CE vendor) that came with it. This is the same thing. I didn't buy the Razor items that qualified for that black-green crystal either. Once again, I don't qualify.

 

There are actually still quite a few people playing that preordered the game. One of the reasons you don't see the crystal often is because you can only get unlimited copies (for free) of the black-yellow fortitude (+4 endurance) crystal and have to buy the other ones individually from the vendor or pay to remove them to swap from one weapon to another.

 

Now, if they want to make a Yellow-Black crystal or a Striated Black-Yellow crystal, that's fine. But this isn't the suggestion forum.

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I disagree.

 

I didn't buy the CE version of the game when it came out and don't deserve the reward (access to the CE vendor) that came with it. This is the same thing. I didn't buy the Razor items that qualified for that black-green crystal either. Once again, I don't qualify.

 

There are actually still quite a few people playing that preordered the game. One of the reasons you don't see the crystal often is because you can only get unlimited copies (for free) of the black-yellow fortitude (+4 endurance) crystal and have to buy the other ones individually from the vendor or pay to remove them to swap from one weapon to another.

 

Now, if they want to make a Yellow-Black crystal or a Striated Black-Yellow crystal, that's fine. But this isn't the suggestion forum.

 

It's why I don't use it. I can make unless copies of a crystal that is worthless to use. +4 endurance or +41 crit, power, master or endurance.

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I disagree.

 

I didn't buy the CE version of the game when it came out and don't deserve the reward (access to the CE vendor) that came with it. This is the same thing. I didn't buy the Razor items that qualified for that black-green crystal either. Once again, I don't qualify.

 

There are actually still quite a few people playing that preordered the game. One of the reasons you don't see the crystal often is because you can only get unlimited copies (for free) of the black-yellow fortitude (+4 endurance) crystal and have to buy the other ones individually from the vendor or pay to remove them to swap from one weapon to another.

 

Now, if they want to make a Yellow-Black crystal or a Striated Black-Yellow crystal, that's fine. But this isn't the suggestion forum.

 

I have never understood, nor agreed with, this line of thinking. I have the CE and the Razer items. I would have 0 issues with someone else now being able to acquire the items. Especially since its been 10 years for one, and just about 10 years for the other, since they were able to be acquired, and many people didnt have the opportunity to BUY these items.

 

By your line of thinking, the Galactic Seasons mechanic is bad, because you are able to get items you missed out on, and didnt 'Earn'. And upgrading the crystal is 250,000 credits, for the preorder and the razer. That is a pittance in regards to credits as you can earn a million, in around a day, with just a little work just from playing the game. Removing the crystal is like 15,000 credits. Which is next to nothing. I do both of these often with my Razer crystals.

 

Now, if it was something ACTUALLY earned, and not just paid for, then I somewhat agree with you. I.E. PvP Ranked rewards, Heroic Ops rewards done during certain dates, etc. Those could be rotated back in as rewards for PvP and Ops etc, but not Galactic Seasons.

 

Punishing people for not having money or being too young when the game came out is just... stupid.

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If you never had it, how could you enjoy it once again?

 

let the Crystal be enjoyed once again!

 

He's not talking about him enjoying it before, but rather that it was enjoyed before, and should have that again, but this time others can enjoy it too.

 

Also, I do have it, and use it on certain chars, it goers with their outfits :)

I've a 'wasp' character (no, not the marvel one) , and another in the black yellow dye

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I have never understood, nor agreed with, this line of thinking. I have the CE and the Razer items. I would have 0 issues with someone else now being able to acquire the items. Especially since its been 10 years for one, and just about 10 years for the other, since they were able to be acquired, and many people didnt have the opportunity to BUY these items.

 

By your line of thinking, the Galactic Seasons mechanic is bad, because you are able to get items you missed out on, and didnt 'Earn'. And upgrading the crystal is 250,000 credits, for the preorder and the razer. That is a pittance in regards to credits as you can earn a million, in around a day, with just a little work just from playing the game. Removing the crystal is like 15,000 credits. Which is next to nothing. I do both of these often with my Razer crystals.

 

Now, if it was something ACTUALLY earned, and not just paid for, then I somewhat agree with you. I.E. PvP Ranked rewards, Heroic Ops rewards done during certain dates, etc. Those could be rotated back in as rewards for PvP and Ops etc, but not Galactic Seasons.

 

Punishing people for not having money or being too young when the game came out is just... stupid.

Well, the appeal to pity argument is just fallacy.

 

Whether or not you "understand" (what you really mean is just "agree with" ) my stance, is irrelevant. These items were marketed as exclusives with the sole intent to boost sales. In the real world, many items are marketed and sold as limited edition items to collectors. The manufacturer is selling them for way more than they're actually worth and using a technique to drive up demand by the consumer by selling them something that won't be available again. If that company makes them available again, then the product will lose value and demand and the company will suffer from a reputation hit.

 

Some of these digital rewards were marketed the same way. I expect the company I have been doing steady business with for 10 years on this game alone to stay true to their word. You may fail to understand, I don't care. That's how I feel. I can never have the CE stuff or the Razor stuff ( a couple examples) and I'm fine with that. I can enjoy the game without it.

 

Delving further into my line of thinking, Yes, I don't think past subscriber rewards marketed as exclusive should have ever been brought back. I don't hate the GS system at all. I think it's a great system, but it should have been the system from day 1. By bringing back some of the things they have brought back, they have reneged on their word and I've seen a couple posters on this forum cancel their sub renewal and never return. All I'm saying is that if you use rewards as a tool to boost sales on the premise "get them now before it's too late," you should stay true to your word. They made their bed.

 

Arguing that not qualifying for something is some kind of "punishment" is not only fallacy, but it's absurd. If someone offers a reward for finding their lost dog and a person does just that and gets the reward, is everybody else in the world punished? Come on, people ... think ...

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Well, the appeal to pity argument is just fallacy.

 

Whether or not you "understand" (what you really mean is just "agree with" ) my stance, is irrelevant. These items were marketed as exclusives with the sole intent to boost sales. In the real world, many items are marketed and sold as limited edition items to collectors. The manufacturer is selling them for way more than they're actually worth and using a technique to drive up demand by the consumer by selling them something that won't be available again. If that company makes them available again, then the product will lose value and demand and the company will suffer from a reputation hit.

 

Some of these digital rewards were marketed the same way. I expect the company I have been doing steady business with for 10 years on this game alone to stay true to their word. You may fail to understand, I don't care. That's how I feel. I can never have the CE stuff or the Razor stuff ( a couple examples) and I'm fine with that. I can enjoy the game without it.

 

Delving further into my line of thinking, Yes, I don't think past subscriber rewards marketed as exclusive should have ever been brought back. I don't hate the GS system at all. I think it's a great system, but it should have been the system from day 1. By bringing back some of the things they have brought back, they have reneged on their word and I've seen a couple posters on this forum cancel their sub renewal and never return. All I'm saying is that if you use rewards as a tool to boost sales on the premise "get them now before it's too late," you should stay true to your word. They made their bed.

 

Arguing that not qualifying for something is some kind of "punishment" is not only fallacy, but it's absurd. If someone offers a reward for finding their lost dog and a person does just that and gets the reward, is everybody else in the world punished? Come on, people ... think ...

 

One, I dont believe I was rude to you for a second. So drop your condescending attitude. I dont understand, and I mean understand, your position, because I cannot understand how people can be so self entitled as to think BUYING something means that no one else should ever be able to get it again. Its not EARNED, its BOUGHT. SWTOR Never stated that the rewards were a ONE TIME exclusive, just an Exclusive. There are Playstation games that used to be exclusive to the Playstation, but eventually became available on other systems. For the benefit of all. Similarly, bringing these items back in the Galactic Seasons, is a way to BRING PEOPLE BACK to a game that has been struggling for years, and a way for them to get the F2P players to subscribe.

 

As for your flawed example of a lost dog. You did not BUY the right to find the dog. You went out and found the dog and earned a reward. People being in dire financial straights and not able to afford a pre-order, or simply being too young to do it, in no way relates to your analogy. The makes it PUNISHING that it isnt available. People are PUNISHED by not having the ability, at the time, to get the items. A better analogy would be that I was tied down in another room, and you were able to buy 'exclusive' keyboard, and I didnt have the ability due to the being tied down, and you gloated about having it. And if Razer had ANOTHER SWTOR item, and brought back the Green-Black Crystal, 99% of us would have 0 problems with others getting it. Because it, unlike a real world collectors item, these items are meant and designed to be used, and have 0 resell value, as you would have to break ToS to sell them. So there goes your comparison to 'Limited Edition Collectors Items' in the real world, which have quite often been re-released, and any real collector knows that so many 'Collector Editions' get made, its likely not world much anyway.

 

Yes, I can, and do, enjoy this game without these items, but having them would boost my enjoyability. If you dont like it, I dont care. If you leave the game because an Item you had is now available to others, good riddance. Obviously those leaving didnt play the game for enjoyments sake.

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I have 2 of em.... (Black and yellow crystal and razor ) and I honestly don't care if they add them to galactic seasons. It would be nice if those of us that already have access to them didn't have to cough up extra credits to get the +41 versions.

 

Thank you kind sir, and yes, the upgrades should be in Collections or something. The credit sink is a little... overdone. I upgrade all the time, and while its not enough to really hurt, it does get annoying

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One, I dont believe I was rude to you for a second. So drop your condescending attitude. I dont understand, and I mean understand, your position, because I cannot understand how people can be so self entitled as to think BUYING something means that no one else should ever be able to get it again. Its not EARNED, its BOUGHT. SWTOR Never stated that the rewards were a ONE TIME exclusive, just an Exclusive. There are Playstation games that used to be exclusive to the Playstation, but eventually became available on other systems. For the benefit of all. Similarly, bringing these items back in the Galactic Seasons, is a way to BRING PEOPLE BACK to a game that has been struggling for years, and a way for them to get the F2P players to subscribe.

 

As for your flawed example of a lost dog. You did not BUY the right to find the dog. You went out and found the dog and earned a reward. People being in dire financial straights and not able to afford a pre-order, or simply being too young to do it, in no way relates to your analogy. The makes it PUNISHING that it isnt available. People are PUNISHED by not having the ability, at the time, to get the items. A better analogy would be that I was tied down in another room, and you were able to buy 'exclusive' keyboard, and I didnt have the ability due to the being tied down, and you gloated about having it. And if Razer had ANOTHER SWTOR item, and brought back the Green-Black Crystal, 99% of us would have 0 problems with others getting it. Because it, unlike a real world collectors item, these items are meant and designed to be used, and have 0 resell value, as you would have to break ToS to sell them. So there goes your comparison to 'Limited Edition Collectors Items' in the real world, which have quite often been re-released, and any real collector knows that so many 'Collector Editions' get made, its likely not world much anyway.

 

Yes, I can, and do, enjoy this game without these items, but having them would boost my enjoyability. If you dont like it, I dont care. If you leave the game because an Item you had is now available to others, good riddance. Obviously those leaving didnt play the game for enjoyments sake.

 

I never said you were rude and "attitude" is not something that can be expressed properly with just words. I feel like you don't appreciate that I disagree. But I disagree nonetheless. As for "exclusive", that's exactly what the word means. It excludes people that didn't meet the qualifications. I'm not the one that is demonstrating entitlement here. I know I can't have the things I didn't qualify for. I'm not requesting a change. I firmly believe that they should not renege on their word.

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I never said you were rude and "attitude" is not something that can be expressed properly with just words. I feel like you don't appreciate that I disagree. But I disagree nonetheless. As for "exclusive", that's exactly what the word means. It excludes people that didn't meet the qualifications. I'm not the one that is demonstrating entitlement here. I know I can't have the things I didn't qualify for. I'm not requesting a change. I firmly believe that they should not renege on their word.

 

No, but here all we have is words, and you chose poorly. You can disagree all you want. Like I said, I dont care. But Exclusive has many intonations. There is Exclusive to the game, Exclusive for a time (look at how EGS gets 'Exclusive titles), exclusive to a character, etc. There is, quite often, time limits on exclusivity.

 

And no, Im not entitled for desiring this. Were I DEMANDING it, yes. I never stated this as a demand. I was stating that I think this would be an excellent way for it to be reintroduced to the game. Again, a decade is a LONG time. And I would venture that less that 5% of people that preordered the game still actually play it. They never gave their 'word'. They never signed a contract. They never ONCE stipulated that the item would not, one day, become available to everyone or be re-released. So they arent 'reneging' on anything.

 

Also, as is shown by others that have commented on this post. Most people are 100% fine to allow the items to be reintroduced. But with the Galactic Seasons, those that didnt have the items handed to them for buying it, are allowed to EARN it.

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No, but here all we have is words, and you chose poorly. You can disagree all you want. Like I said, I dont care. But Exclusive has many intonations. There is Exclusive to the game, Exclusive for a time (look at how EGS gets 'Exclusive titles), exclusive to a character, etc. There is, quite often, time limits on exclusivity.

 

And no, Im not entitled for desiring this. Were I DEMANDING it, yes. I never stated this as a demand. I was stating that I think this would be an excellent way for it to be reintroduced to the game. Again, a decade is a LONG time. And I would venture that less that 5% of people that preordered the game still actually play it. They never gave their 'word'. They never signed a contract. They never ONCE stipulated that the item would not, one day, become available to everyone or be re-released. So they arent 'reneging' on anything.

 

Also, as is shown by others that have commented on this post. Most people are 100% fine to allow the items to be reintroduced. But with the Galactic Seasons, those that didnt have the items handed to them for buying it, are allowed to EARN it.

I'm not worried about your critique of my wording (lol). You read something that wasn't there because it bothers you that I disagree.

 

I will say it's tiring to read people say I didn't "earn" something when I worked a couple real hours in real life to pay for something with real money back when I pre-ordered a game that would later be free for everybody.

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Delving further into my line of thinking, Yes, I don't think past subscriber rewards marketed as exclusive should have ever been brought back.

 

Story-based content should never be exclusive or left as an exclusive.

 

Even as someone who was subbed to the game when the HK chapter was released I couldn't help but think that not only is unfortunate that more people won't get to experience it but how unlikely it was that subs alone would justify the cost and resource sink of something like an exclusive story chapter. Logistically nor economically did it make sense in the long run.

 

Same goes for the sub-reward companions. They have story tied to them and for a game whose biggest feature is the story it doesn't make sense to have story elements that are only obtainable during a single 3 month period during over the entire life cycle of the game.

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Same goes for the sub-reward companions. They have story tied to them and for a game whose biggest feature is the story it doesn't make sense to have story elements that are only obtainable during a single 3 month period during over the entire life cycle of the game.

 

What stories are you talking about? Niko's "story" is preparing a drink at a cantina, recruiting Ranos is chatting with her for a couple of minutes, etc.. And then you never hear of them ever again. Niko might have been in a trailer before release, as a player you never experienced anything with him.

 

The only companion that kinda has a story is Shae but she was an existing character at the time they allowed her to join you as a companion. Yet not only her recruitment is a 30 second chat, having her as a companion or not changes nothing story-wise.

Edited by demotivator
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What stories are you talking about? Niko's "story" is preparing a drink at a cantina, recruiting Ranos is chatting with her for a couple of minutes, etc.. And then you never hear of them ever again. Niko might have been in a trailer before release, as a player you never experienced anything with him.

 

The only companion that kinda has a story is Shae but she was an existing character at the time they allowed her to join you as a companion. Yet not only her recruitment is a 30 second chat, having her as a companion or not changes nothing story-wise.

 

I'm not talking about story like a quest with the comps I'm talking about the dialogue, the character backstories, etc.

 

It doesn't matter how much or how little dialogue they have it's still a cutscene that allows you to get to know the character a bit.

 

If that stuff isn't important or doesn't matter then Bioware shouldn't bother with it but they do.

 

If they were companions purely in cosmetic fashion only like the Cartel Market companions that be one thing but they're not and I'm guessing that part of the reason they're being re-released is due to the extra amount of work they required that the CM companions didn't and they want or need to make up for that extra cost if the sub numbers at the time weren't enough to justify it.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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I pre-ordered the game, and haven't used this color since early 1.x. Especially after the CM was put in the game, there are far nicer crystal colors available. Even before then, though, there were basic color crystals available through crafting or endgame in 1.x that were also much nicer.

 

There's no reason not to put items like this in Galactic Seasons, especially after almost 10 years.

 

Any players that want items like the pre-order crystal to remain exclusive to whoever played at launch is being silly.

 

The game we paid for and pre-ordered ceased to even exist, in the format it was planned to, in November 2012, when SWTOR went F2P and took on an entirely different content and business model.

 

After 10 years, it's more than reasonable to acknowledge this difference formally by offering players that want to earn the old pre-order items in-game a way to do so. Galactic Seasons is a perfectly reasonable option.

Edited by arunav
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Story-based content should never be exclusive or left as an exclusive.

 

Even as someone who was subbed to the game when the HK chapter was released I couldn't help but think that not only is unfortunate that more people won't get to experience it but how unlikely it was that subs alone would justify the cost and resource sink of something like an exclusive story chapter. Logistically nor economically did it make sense in the long run.

 

Same goes for the sub-reward companions. They have story tied to them and for a game whose biggest feature is the story it doesn't make sense to have story elements that are only obtainable during a single 3 month period during over the entire life cycle of the game.

I understand the argument and would agree if any of the so-called story content was part of the player character's storyline. It was all designed to be "bonus" story, nothing else. I've already acknowledged in this thread that I believe GS to be the best "rewards" system they have implemented. The rules are clear. The conditions are clear and fair. There is a means to obtain rewards later if you miss them the first time. With that being said, that's not how they offered a lot of the old rewards. I simply feel that if they should be consistent with how they portray a reward.

 

Some people have a huge problem with items being exclusive. I do not. In every single thread like this, I will be accused of being selfish. In most of them someone will come along and claim I just want to lord my "haves" over the "have-nots." Neither is true. In 100% of these threads, the proponents will use at least 1 "appeal to pity" argument which is a fallacious argument that is designed to persuade people on the basis of feeling bad for someone else or trying to paint them as the reason someone else is feeling bad.

 

It's the same thing every time. Honestly, at this point, there's not much more to say in this thread that I haven't already said.

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Ok let's assume the devs make the black-yellow crystal available to all. I then "lose" the exclusivity part of my pre-order bonus. Additionally, I lose the black-yellow crystal reward from the new method of obtainment -- because I already have it. So effectively, I lose twice? Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Ok let's assume the devs make the black-yellow crystal available to all. I then "lose" the exclusivity part of my pre-order bonus. Additionally, I lose the black-yellow crystal reward from the new method of obtainment -- because I already have it. So effectively, I lose twice?

 

Not all rewardable content needs to constantly be something new or be of the best value to just long time players.

 

Plenty of games now have something like a Battle Pass but the rewards of previous seasons don't always stay exclusive to that season. Sometimes a season will repeat or they'll do some kind of intermission between seasons that bring back past rewards and that's fine. If you already own everything in that intermission then great you don't need to engage with it and can take a break from the tedium involved with ranking through that intermission.

 

Re-releasing old content also means that they don't need to generate new art assets for anything either which allows their artists to focus on whatever content update they've got in the works instead.

 

You look at having the yellow/black crystal in the reward table as you losing out on something new and/or unique but the reality is that the yellow-black crystal exists in the reward table in that very place because an asset that already exists in the game. If it wasn't that crystal there's a good chance it could be something else you already have in its place.

 

You're not all of sudden going to be missing out on getting a wholly new mount, companion, weapon, etc, in place of the yellow-black crystal.

 

It's like when a fighting game like Street Fighter adds an alternate version of an existing character to the roster, ie Evil Ryu, and people complain "They could've done a completely different character rather than a variation of a character that already existed." but that's generally not the case. When something like Street Fighter does that it's usually because at that point and time they usually don't have the time or resources to produce a completely new character but do have the ability to add a variation given that the variation will recycle various aspects like existing animations instead of having to build a character from scratch.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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So if at any point they come up with a better way to do or handle something they should never implement it for the sake of existing consistency?

 

As I explained, I believe GS is a better system in every way. However, it should only effect all new rewards and already recurring past rewards (some of which I don't think they should have brought back, but it's too late now to undo that. )

 

For example, they sent promo emails describing upcoming rewards with the intent of convincing people to subscribe (or keep subscribing) at a time when nothing new was happening. Here are a couple examples of text in the emails (and the date it was sent so doubters that haven't deleted them can see for themselves.) :

 

LAST CHANCE TO CLAIM A RARE BOUNTY: Unlock Shae Vizla -- legendary Bounty Hunter -- as a new Companion to fight by your side! (10-21-16)

 

FINAL CHANCE TO GET NICO OKARR AS A COMPANION! NIKO OKARR COMPANION OFFER EXTENDED THROUGH 8/10/15!Don't miss your FINAL CHANCE to get this legendary gunslinger Companion (8-7-2015)

 

So, IMO, "last chance" and "final chance" is a non-negotiable statement. So, they reneged on that claim by bringing those rewards back. Since they are back, they might as well be a part of GS rewards since that is the new reward system. But I still feel they should stick to their word on the other exclusives that have not returned and just continue to make new rewards moving forward.

 

I also already stated I support creating a CM crystal that is either yellow-black or black-yellow striated (maybe even a black-copper) so the people that missed out can get something close. But if somebody doesn't make a suggestion for that in the actual suggestion forum, I don't see it happening. I don't see this one happening either since the OP didn't put this (suggestion) in the proper forum.

Edited by BRKMSN
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