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Gearing system 6.0 versus 7.0


Darittha

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ignroes that FF14 has 22 million players and is...you guessed it...primarily a raiding game. .

 

Go ask Yoshi P. and I am pretty sure he want call the game a "primarily raiding game", hell most people even call the game an RPG more than MMO.

 

Again you are using your false belief that raids are the ultimate endgame that you literally ignore the main point of the game, which from the start had been a game about the story and everything else has been secondary, which has pissed off quite a few raiders because they believe the devs should focus on ultimates and screw everyone else. Thankfully Yoshi P. realizes ultimates are not a priority, the casual solo content is.

And more importantly in FF14 every 2nd patch gives catchup gear to everyone gets to be at almost the same gear level without raiders having special gear privileges.

 

Again dont project your belief that raids are the be all end all of mmorpgs, they arent, and evidence for that is the simple fact that ONLY MINORITY DOES HIGH END RAIDS in any mmorpg.

 

That unjustified belief is an example of pure entitlement because you unironically believe something that is done by only a minority should be the focus of a game.

Edited by ralphieceaser
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Go ask Yoshi P. and I am pretty sure he want call the game a "primarily raiding game", hell most people even call the game an RPG more than MMO.

 

Again you are using your false belief that raids are the ultimate endgame that you literally ignore the main point of the game, which from the start had been a game about the story.

And more importantly in FF14 every 2nd patch gives catchup gear to everyone gets to be at almost the same gear level without raiders having special gear privileges.

 

Again dont project your belief that raids are the be all end all of mmorpgs, they arent, and evidence for that is the simple fact that ONLY MINORITY DOES HIGH END RAIDS in any mmorpg.

 

I've actually said pretty consistently that nightmare raiders do not care what gear is available, or if any non nightmare raider can get it. We do not care. Multiple times I've said this now. You simply need to use the nightmare raiding community as your whipping boy for whatever reason. Nobody cares if you can get BiS gear. Do you need it for solo play? No, but nobody cares if you can get it either.

 

What's really funny about your post: "And more importantly in FF14 every 2nd patch gives catchup gear to everyone gets to be at almost the same gear level..."

 

So...even with those patches you...can basically get to the tier under the bis? While swtor may not be flat out giving you the gear a tier below, you are completely able to get it no? I have no doubt you are far too proud and stubborn to understand why what you just said invalidates your entire crusade. And it does make you look even more foolish.

 

I find it hilarious that you think this game is still about the story. I think it's beyond hilarious that you think the raiding community is to blame, and I find it absolutely hysterical that you can't see that this game is more like a mobile game where they want you to buy stuff from the cash shop more than subscribe.

 

Edit:

 

Also let's be honest with ourselves shall we? Using your logic of a minor minority of the game only experiences end game raiding why do they produce a raid at all? Why are they making a new flashpoint? If the story is so powerful why did they cut Kotfe Kotet trilogy short? Why did the game go free to play so quickly? Surely, it had enough story! Surely the solo crowd is so much more faithful than the raiding crowd! You'll be able to get a tier below the evil nightmare raiding community and be "almost" the same just like in FF which you seem to be ok with. Congrats on over exaggerating your original premise. Stay gold Pony Boy

 

(I love the story myself, absolutely hate what they did to companions, but your logic is so incredibly lopsided it's amazing)

Edited by Shwarzchild
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But we Story Players will suffer if the Conquest gear isn't up to the content. I cannot begin to describe the physical pain and exhaustion I went through with the SoV FP before they 'fixed' it. I dread the new FP.

 

I think everyone is going to suffer from the non moddable gear they're going to pump out to be honest. It won't be just story players that feel the effects. I honestly do not understand why they are moving the direction they are regarding moddable gear.

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Well just don't lump all of us SM players as "raid haters." Do I want a shot at high end gear? Yes. Do I think that Raiders are evil beings with Napolean complexes? No. Do I loath the coming changes? No. I'm terrified for my phyiscal well-being. Is it fair sticking SM player with static bantha gear? Oh NO!
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Well just don't lump all of us SM players as "raid haters." Do I want a shot at high end gear? Yes. Do I think that Raiders are evil beings with Napolean complexes? No. Do I loath the coming changes? No. I'm terrified for my phyiscal well-being. Is it fair sticking SM player with static bantha gear? Oh NO!

 

Hey now, I am short. Napoleon complex definitely still fits me lol

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Yeah..this guy really really really hates raiders. Outside of calling all of us spoiled rotten babies who potentially eat babies he also is upset about groups selling runs to which he BiS gear is really for. Nigtmare raiders are the swtor version of "the coporate overlords".

 

He doesn't want to understand, or accept, that his ideas are not 100 percent facts as he wishes them to be. He continually quotes WoW as the primary example of why BiS for top end content is an outdated philosophy yet ignroes that FF14 has 22 million players and is...you guessed it...primarily a raiding game.

 

His claim that WOW cratered because of it's design philosophy is pure bunk. I played Shadowlands and know better. The game had the usual rise upon expansion release and then settled back to normal just as it always does. It didn't crater until the sexual harassment against female employees became public. Then everyone left.

 

He doesn't want to understand, or accept, that nightmare raiders don't give two hoots if someone "beneath" us can acquire gear. We are simply pointing out that being really upset about not being able to get BiS gear for solo play will not negatively affect their experience. Which is absolutely true. It doesn't matter at all that NiM raiders don't need the gear either.

 

He just REALLY wants to trash the nightmare raiding crowd as best he can. His reasons are his own. But, as I watch his assault daily I just laugh at him. He's become the clown of the forum.

 

He certainly seems to have an axe to grind. Having a logical conversation with him is impossible because he just ignores what you write and repeats the same bunk over and over again.

 

Speaking of gearing systems this is what I would love to see:

 

The daily areas (all of them) get updated vendors that sell the PvE base gear (green, blue, purple or whatever color who cares as long as its upgraded), and crafting schematics for mods enhancements armorings etc. and you unlock it via reputation and credits. This gear helps you clear the next tier of content (vet fps, vet uprisings if you have green or blue, story mode operations for purple). Story mode operations drop tech frags and one actual unassembled piece per boss that everyone rolls on and this gear is gold moddable, and gear to clear hard mode operations and master mode flashpoints. In hard mode its rinse repeat except the gear is for nightmare. In nightmare you get exclusive titles, mounts, gear sets, weapon sets, color crystals, pets, companion unlocks, dyes, decorations, and materials for nightmare crystals (so that content becomes easier as they progress and clear as well as being able to really anger that guy who hates sales runs). Tech frags can drop from...everything still...so that there's a buffer and people can all get to their desired level.

 

PvP would have two vendors who sold specifically PvP gear. Moddable. Ranked still has Girradda's rewards etc.

 

That's what I would love to see.

 

I wouldn't mind that either.

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~waves~ Military historian here.

 

Napoleon was average height for his time at 5'7". The reason he got "the Little Corporal" as a nickname is that the officers he made Marshals of the Empire were all (or mostly--my specialty is Germany, not France) above average in height for the time.

 

Here is a drawing of Napoleon and his Marshals listing their heights. I doubt the creator of the image made up the numbers, since why would anyone do that? After all, this question is not currently a political lightning rod in France or anywhere else.

 

EDIT: I'm not even certain how the nickname was used. Was it a nickname Napoleon knew and approved of so it was said with affection? Or was it something muttered behind his back derisively such as German field marshals over a century later complaining of a "Bohemian corporal" with a little moustache.

 

------

 

I also like the different gearing suggestion that has been made. Strikes me as fair, and you offer a very wide array of unique cosmetic items to keep the grind going. To that I would also add schematics for this gear so that way crafters get love too.

Edited by robwettengel
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I think everyone is going to suffer from the non moddable gear they're going to pump out to be honest. It won't be just story players that feel the effects. I honestly do not understand why they are moving the direction they are regarding moddable gear.

 

Yeah, that part's crap. Not the gear numbers per se but the lack of tailoring.

 

Example: When I made my Smuggler, I noticed that some of her techniques took forever to execute. Bump up the Alacrity a bit and everything is golden. Now, it's going to be whatever BW thinks is good gear with the non-moddable stuff. (Plus I'm going to have to make an image slot instead of just updating my existing armor.)

 

Basically, the non-moddable gear (Why hello, Game Update pre-1.3. Good to see you again) and the effective killing of the Weeklies are just crappy things that Bioware is dumping on us. There's really no defending those two things.

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Yeah, that part's crap. Not the gear numbers per se but the lack of tailoring.

 

Example: When I made my Smuggler, I noticed that some of her techniques took forever to execute. Bump up the Alacrity a bit and everything is golden. Now, it's going to be whatever BW thinks is good gear with the non-moddable stuff. (Plus I'm going to have to make an image slot instead of just updating my existing armor.)

 

Basically, the non-moddable gear (Why hello, Game Update pre-1.3. Good to see you again) and the effective killing of the Weeklies are just crappy things that Bioware is dumping on us. There's really no defending those two things.

 

are you sure you cant mix and match different pieces to get the stats you want? It seemed like I could in the PTS. Like they have some with alacrity if you want more of that, as well as other stats you can mix and match with.

Edited by SaerethDL
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are you sure you cant mix and match different pieces to get the stats you want? It seemed like I could in the PTS. Like they have some with alacrity if you want more of that, as well as other stats you can mix and match with.

 

yep - couldn't do it on the pts. We aren't just talking about removing accuracy or overloading alacrity/crit.

Edited by Savej
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1) Nobody needs it, its a reward for completing challenging content that helps with challenging content. It is a crucial part of progression and invites others to attempt it.

So don't need it...

I've actually said pretty consistently that nightmare raiders do not care what gear is available, or if any non nightmare raider can get it. We do not care.

Don't really want it...

 

Deserve it?

 

I'm glad we at least agree it serves no real purpose other than to build raider ego and give an unfair advantage.

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I'm glad we at least agree it serves no real purpose other than to build raider ego and give an unfair advantage.

Sadly people that are born in privilege see fairness as something wrong and unjust, and over the years, mmorpgs have often pandered to raiders and treated raids as the be all end all of mmorpg.

So for them, special treatment is the norm which is why everytime someone tells them they dont deserve special treatment they unironically try to make up reasons as to why they deserve special treatment while anyone in their right minds would tell them that this is a video game and no group deserves to be treated special over the other.

 

And sadly only a very tiny minority of people ever thinks independently and questions whenever the status quo they were born into is right or not, especially if they benefit from it, most just adopt what is "normal" to fit in without thinking.

 

Yet for us outsiders, it becomes pretty clear what is wrong, yet for them it is almost impossible to comprehend because they would have to admit they ve been receiving special treatment for years now.

Edited by ralphieceaser
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His claim that WOW cratered because of it's design philosophy is pure bunk. I played Shadowlands and know better. The game had the usual rise upon expansion release and then settled back to normal just as it always does. It didn't crater until the sexual harassment against female employees became public. Then everyone left.

 

 

 

 

Activision hasn't released a sub count since 2014. Also, until Cataclysm, subs were trending upward, release or a year into the expansion. It was only when they wrote a crap story (Cata), and began removing: quests, NPCs, items (Also Cata), that subs began to dip.

 

MoP and WoD saw some increase, but then a MASSIVE decrease, where the net was always a significant sub loss.

 

To put in perspective - Since their max sub count of 12.1 M in 2007 (WotLK), until they stopped reporting subs, they were hemorrhaging an average of 850,000 subs a YEAR.

 

My friends list is a ghost town. Has been for over three years. That predates Shadow Lands.

 

However, it wasn't just "raider preference" that savaged sub numbers, it was the lack of ANYTHING ELSE TO DO. Oh sure there were "dailies", and reps to G-R-I-N-D, but nothing like your farm in Pandaria, (<-- ignored next expansion) or your garrison in WoD. (<-- nerfed into the ground, while being bland at the same time)

 

What is hurting WoW, above and beyond the impending lawsuits, was: 1) Lack of communication from the Devs, (Sound familiar?) 2) Total ignoring of feedback for SLs (Sound familiar?), 3) "Popular" streamers giving up on the game, moving to FF 14 and having FUN.

 

It also doesn't help that Activision themselves have said that "no work is being done on the game"

 

Personally, I hope they get sued into oblivion.

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What is hurting WoW, above and beyond the impending lawsuits, was: 1) Lack of communication from the Devs, (Sound familiar?) 2) Total ignoring of feedback for SLs (Sound familiar?), 3) "Popular" streamers giving up on the game, moving to FF 14 and having FUN..

The thing is people who like WoW's design are using the lawsuit as an excuse, Shadowlands was a complete disaster with a mass exodus a few months after 9.0, they had record launch with almost 1mill sales yet 80%-90% of the players left, especially casual players because casual content was gutted reward wise and other problems.

 

The demise of WoW started very visibly and spectacularly sometime after 9.0, which was almost a year before all the lawsuits dropped, the lawsuits were just the nail to the coffin.

Edited by ralphieceaser
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I´ve read through this, and other, posts concerning gearing.

 

The NiM community is very happy that the BiS AND the moddable

gear is locked behind NiM operations. It will make them very, very speciel, the need special rewards and recognition and they deserv that because... reasons

 

Other players are not happy about that, strangley enough, they also want the good stuff.

 

Now, NiM raiders did have special rewards. They hade titles, mounts and achivments. But that was boring, so they were thinking, "how can i capitalize on this?" Yes, lets make sale-runs, bring in the cash and f**k our rewards, lets sell it to the highest bidder (or for a sett amount)

 

So ther rewards were not that inspiring, The wanted more.

 

Beeing cozy with the devs on discord can sometime payoff, the NiM raiders got there hard earn reward, BiS gear is behind a NiM wall.

 

But hey! this is a buisness oppurtunity, F**k our special reward for our hard and difficult achivment, lets make sale-runs to make the game a proper "pay-to-win" game. A billion a set- piece and 2 for the implants and earpice!

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I´ve read through this, and other, posts concerning gearing.

 

The NiM community is very happy that the BiS AND the moddable

gear is locked behind NiM operations. It will make them very, very speciel, the need special rewards and recognition and they deserv that because... reasons

 

Other players are not happy about that, strangley enough, they also want the good stuff.

 

Now, NiM raiders did have special rewards. They hade titles, mounts and achivments. But that was boring, so they were thinking, "how can i capitalize on this?" Yes, lets make sale-runs, bring in the cash and f**k our rewards, lets sell it to the highest bidder (or for a sett amount)

 

So ther rewards were not that inspiring, The wanted more.

 

Beeing cozy with the devs on discord can sometime payoff, the NiM raiders got there hard earn reward, BiS gear is behind a NiM wall.

 

But hey! this is a buisness oppurtunity, F**k our special reward for our hard and difficult achivment, lets make sale-runs to make the game a proper "pay-to-win" game. A billion a set- piece and 2 for the implants and earpice!

 

What in the what? Do you also believe that birds are actually spy drones for the gov't as well? Jeez Louise you people really don't live in the same swtor galaxy as the rest of us.

Edited by Shwarzchild
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So don't need it...

 

Don't really want it...

 

Deserve it?

 

I'm glad we at least agree it serves no real purpose other than to build raider ego and give an unfair advantage.

 

This is certainly taking things out of context, and putting this in some fantasy land with the population of 3.

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I guess if you repeat an “untruth” ad nauseam, the gullible will believe it to be true. Perhaps I should start my own campaign about raiders being the majority of subscribers in SWTOR. Hell, it might even be true.

 

Guys, NiM raiding does offer one-time rewards, but it offers no real incentive to repeat. The NiM gear tier is supposed to incentivize NiM because 6.0’s augment mats (OEM) were virtually ignored by the NiM community. NiM raiders want a reward for repeating content, but did not ask for a private gear tier.

 

tl;dr

It’s weird that some players feel victimized by raiders for a dev decision.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Show us on the doll where the NiM raiders hurt you. I guess if you repeat an “untruth” ad nauseam, the gullible will believe it to be true. Perhaps I should start my own campaign about raiders being the majority of subscribers in SWTOR. Hell, it might even be true.

 

Guys, NiM raiding does offer one-time rewards, but it offers no incentive to repeat.(1) The NiM gear tier is supposed to incentivize NiM because 6.0’s augment mats (OEM) were virtually ignored by the NiM community. NiM raiders want a reward for repeating content, but did not ask for a private gear tier.

 

tl;dr

It’s weird that people are mad at raiders for a dev decision.

 

Perkia nailed it. When Devs are in a private server talking with NiM raiders? Then come out with an expansion that screws over, or, at a minimum marginalizes all other playstyles?

 

What are people supposed to think?

 

(1) Selling carries is a thing.

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Show us in the doll where the NiM raiders touched you.

 

Guys, NiM raiding does offer one-time rewards, but it offers no incentive to repeat. The NiM gear tier is supposed to incentivize NiM because 6.0’s augment mats (OEM) were virtually ignored by the NiM community. NiM raiders want a reward for repeating content, but did not ask for a private gear tier. It’s weird that people are mad at raiders for a dev decision.

 

It does offer plenty of incentive to repeat. Unique cosmetics, titles, achievements, OEM's, and sale runs. It gives so much that raiders have kept playing this game despite it releasing only one raid a year.

 

I also think most raiders don't want the incentive to grind the new op for gear, they're gonna grind it regardless with all the other incentives in place. It seems BW only made this decision to get more people into raiding, and as you can see right in this thread the main thing it's accomplishing is frustration and divide.

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When Devs are in a private server talking with NiM raiders?

 

Proof? Links? Which private server?

 

(1) Selling carries is a thing.

 

Selling carries isn’t the norm (we could get into inflation and busted economy but meh). Progging and raiding with buds is the norm.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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It does offer plenty of incentive to repeat. Unique cosmetics, titles, achievements, OEM's, and sale runs. It gives so much that raiders have kept playing this game despite it releasing only one raid a year.

 

I also think most raiders don't want the incentive to grind the new op for gear, they're gonna grind it regardless with all the other incentives in place. It seems BW only made this decision to get more people into raiding, and as you can see right in this thread the main thing it's accomplishing is frustration and divide.

 

Cosmetic

Once I have it, do you think I want it on all my toons? Lol no. Certain decos used to be locked behind NiM. Imagine the rage if they did that again.

 

Titles

Once I have it once, do you think I need it on all my toons?

 

Achievements

These are not repeatable. One and done.

 

OEM

12.5% chance per boss to collect one OEM that sells for a paltry 40 million. I can think of faster ways to make credits.

 

Sale Runs

These are not possible by a majority of NiM raiders, hence the sheer cost. 10 billion for Brontes Wings of the Architect lol

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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