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EQN dead, Wildstar dying...swtor?


Zhedzaban

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In the last 24 hours there was official announcements that Everquest Next has been cancelled. Add to that Wildstar has laid off almost all of their dev department and cancelled a planned move into the China market. Unless Wildstar has a successful release on Steam it will be shut down (if it lasts that long). All in all not a good news day for mmorpg lovers.

 

The problem we face is that today's gamer has become transient. Fewer and fewer players have become dedicated to one title and will drift from game to game, genre to genre. Add to that the plethora of titles out there in the market and more being released in the near future (Crowfall, Camelot Unchained etc) and it getting harder and harder for game companies to keep a loyal player base.

 

What has this got to do with swtor? My belief is that the day this game stops being profitable, EA will shut it down a nanosecond later.

 

I love this game. I play multiple mmos but this has been my number 1 favorite since it launched. I've always been a loyal subscriber and regularly buy cartel packs (even the recent bad ones) just to do my bit to keep the game afloat. I know there is a portion of forum posters on here who are anxious to see this game die for whatever reason. But for everyone else I encourage you to put you money where your mouth is and support this game else we will lose it.

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In the last 24 hours there was official announcements that Everquest Next has been cancelled. Add to that Wildstar has laid off almost all of their dev department and cancelled a planned move into the China market. Unless Wildstar has a successful release on Steam it will be shut down (if it lasts that long). All in all not a good news day for mmorpg lovers.

 

The problem we face is that today's gamer has become transient. Fewer and fewer players have become dedicated to one title and will drift from game to game, genre to genre. Add to that the plethora of titles out there in the market and more being released in the near future (Crowfall, Camelot Unchained etc) and it getting harder and harder for game companies to keep a loyal player base.

 

What has this got to do with swtor? My belief is that the day this game stops being profitable, EA will shut it down a nanosecond later.

 

I love this game. I play multiple mmos but this has been my number 1 favorite since it launched. I've always been a loyal subscriber and regularly buy cartel packs (even the recent bad ones) just to do my bit to keep the game afloat. I know there is a portion of forum posters on here who are anxious to see this game die for whatever reason. But for everyone else I encourage you to put you money where your mouth is and support this game else we will lose it.

 

Or the developers, designers and management could go out of there way to ensure they are pandering to majority of the community in what they want in this game.

 

Are they doing that now? Who knows, they may very well be and it may only be the minority who are disillusioned.

 

I do know one thing for a fact though - focusing on story and completely ignoring end game raiding was a far worse idea than ensuring both got attention. Whether or not it was practical for them to be able to do both or a short sighted error in judgement ... we'll never know.

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In a game designed like this "Theme Park" you have to actually play to support it. This is not like SWG that just merely subscribing supports it because SWG was a sandbox of endless open world events that went on for ever. This game relies on group ques to happen and when they don't, people leave.

 

SWG has instanced PVP but also had a HUGE open world PVP that went on ever single day and night in a place called restuss. Players didn't need que pops to appear to PVP. They could go to restuss day and night and fight in small or large 100 vs 100 fights. It didn't matter.

 

This is a good game, but its design requires people to log in and que. When the que pops stop, people leave and leave in groves. 188 US servers that are no longer in existence will prove what I am saying is correct.

 

Truth be told, SWTOR is on life support at this point. Server to server ques should have been built into this game before launch. To late to fix and my understanding is that they built this game on a sub standard engine that can not even support it even if they wanted to.

 

Trouble times ahead, and I am not talking about the distant future, I am talking very shortly for this game.

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EQN was vaporware from the get go and Wildstar imploded on the launch pad.

 

SWTOR had a decent launch and despite the F2P conversion scramble has remained moderately profitable, its probably got another year or two in it at least.

 

I wouldnt say it was vaperware, I think they just lost their focus. At first it was going to be a nextgen mmo, but then they let the people in the legacy forums define what EQN should be where they can hock their crap they made in legacy.

 

if they had stuck to their original vision, rather then let the legacy forum muddle it, it would have probably launched. Plus I believe the guy incharge of it was the guy that screwed SWG, so that didnt help.

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EA is known to shutdown IP's that aren't successful enough for their standards. So the fact this game is still running shows that EA has faith in the game to continue to be successful. I don't see it going anywhere in the next few years.

 

I feel bad for Wildstar because the game had a lot of potential and while it was fun it didn't live up to the hype. The direction of the characters and art probably turned a lot of people away as well. I just started playing again when I heard the announcement the game was going into maintenance mode. Sad day for all the people involved on the project.

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I wonder if more companies are going to try follow the "Destiny train", rather than doing a "full" MMO structure?

 

A while back I found myself startled by co-workers (who never played MMOs) suddenly water-coolering about "getting ready for the Destiny raid". This week, I'm hearing similar talk about The Division.

 

It's sort of a mini-MMO experience they're enjoying, I guess?

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I feel bad for Wildstar because the game had a lot of potential and while it was fun it didn't live up to the hype. The direction of the characters and art probably turned a lot of people away as well. I just started playing again when I heard the announcement the game was going into maintenance mode. Sad day for all the people involved on the project.

 

I was super excited when we saw the first Wildstar videos, and I followed the development fairly closely, but when I got into the Beta I realised that despite the obvious talent and effort that had been put into it it suffered one fatal flaw, It was BORING.

 

I took three attempts to make it through the opening levels before I actually twigged that I just wasn't having any fun, which was a pretty bitter realisation.

 

And the rest as they say, is history.

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You really are fixated on the group queue as the sole indicator of game success / life, aren't you?

 

For PVP in this game, you better believe I do. It is a make or break issue. Its the only reason servers die off and become ghost towns. Its a slippery slope that this particular game has had an impossible time beating.

 

If this game had server to server que pops, it would probly have at least 2 times of the servers it has not if not a lot more than that and probly 80% of the friends I had who no longe rplay this game anymore would still be playing.

 

That's my personal experience in this game and I have played this game since launch. This aint my first rodeo here.

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I was super excited when we saw the first Wildstar videos, and I followed the development fairly closely, but when I got into the Beta I realised that despite the obvious talent and effort that had been put into it it suffered one fatal flaw, It was BORING.

 

I took three attempts to make it through the opening levels before I actually twigged that I just wasn't having any fun, which was a pretty bitter realisation.

 

And the rest as they say, is history.

 

No matter what class I tried everything felt clunky and boring. The combat was off to me and I could never figure out why. It had dodging and sprinting which was interesting but it also added a ton of frustration to combat I felt, especially in PvP. Overall, the exploration aspect of the game was fantastic, jumping up mountains to overlook the entire zone was a blast. Sadly, this isn't enough to keep me hooked forever and thus I don't think the game will survive much longer.

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I was super excited when we saw the first Wildstar videos, and I followed the development fairly closely, but when I got into the Beta I realised that despite the obvious talent and effort that had been put into it it suffered one fatal flaw, It was BORING.

 

I took three attempts to make it through the opening levels before I actually twigged that I just wasn't having any fun, which was a pretty bitter realisation.

 

And the rest as they say, is history.

 

Wildstar was interesting in that there was a huge disconnect between the gaming journalists and the players. When it released it won all sorts of awards and was given rave reviews with high scores from so called game experts and reviewers.

 

And yet the game tanked, hard. I think you are right, the game lacks a soul and a lot of elder gamers find all the flashing lights and in your face gameplay annoying. With no IP to back it up, not even a f2p conversion was enough to save it.

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In a game designed like this "Theme Park" you have to actually play to support it. This is not like SWG that just merely subscribing supports it because SWG was a sandbox of endless open world events that went on for ever. This game relies on group ques to happen and when they don't, people leave.

 

SWG has instanced PVP but also had a HUGE open world PVP that went on ever single day and night in a place called restuss. Players didn't need que pops to appear to PVP. They could go to restuss day and night and fight in small or large 100 vs 100 fights. It didn't matter.

 

This is a good game, but its design requires people to log in and que. When the que pops stop, people leave and leave in groves. 188 US servers that are no longer in existence will prove what I am saying is correct.

 

Truth be told, SWTOR is on life support at this point. Server to server ques should have been built into this game before launch. To late to fix and my understanding is that they built this game on a sub standard engine that can not even support it even if they wanted to.

 

Trouble times ahead, and I am not talking about the distant future, I am talking very shortly for this game.

For PVP in this game, you better believe I do. It is a make or break issue. Its the only reason servers die off and become ghost towns. Its a slippery slope that this particular game has had an impossible time beating.

 

If this game had server to server que pops, it would probly have at least 2 times of the servers it has not if not a lot more than that and probly 80% of the friends I had who no longe rplay this game anymore would still be playing.

 

That's my personal experience in this game and I have played this game since launch. This aint my first rodeo here.

Doom, doom, doom, doom!

Never understood why PvP players seem to need so much handed to them to actually PvP. Go to a shared world and drum up some open world PvP events. Go use the few free for all areas like Outlaws Den on Tatooine or Ilum's Westen plain.

 

The trouble is a large section of Bioware supporters and Star Wars gamers are not PvP players and turned up for the story and little else.

Of course it's never that easy to define what a particular player is going to stick around to play, but given the direction of convenience features and the focus on story content recently I doubt the hardcore MMO fans are the prime market (and given the IP they never should have been).

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Ironically, SWTOR has a better chance at surviving with its "un-MMO" heavy focus on solo story than most other titles in the genre. Destiny and Division are 'winning' right now primarly because they present themselves as NOT-MMOs lol. The term has become toxic both among gamers and developers fixated on MMO definition. Edited by Pietrastor
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Wildstar looked like it was for 8 year olds so I never tried it.

EQ has way too much history, I don't want to jump in at this stage into anything like it, FF or Wow.

 

SWTOR is an awesome game and unlike just about every other MMO it has a huge successful entertainment business behind it putting out movies, TV shows, books, other games etc to keep promoting it for free. I think it has a good future but it would be better with a few VERY basic changes like cross server ques and a new Op.

 

As for games like the Division the idea of a modern FPS MMO is a great one and I think it has great potential.

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For PVP in this game, you better believe I do. It is a make or break issue. Its the only reason servers die off and become ghost towns. Its a slippery slope that this particular game has had an impossible time beating.

 

If this game had server to server que pops, it would probly have at least 2 times of the servers it has not if not a lot more than that and probly 80% of the friends I had who no longe rplay this game anymore would still be playing.

 

That's my personal experience in this game and I have played this game since launch. This aint my first rodeo here.

 

This is NOT a PvP centered game, and never has been. Sure it has some PvP features in it, but they are not the core of the game for most players AND certainly not for the studio. PvPers need to pursue MMOs where PvP is more central to the core of the game design... Period. then again.. there are very few MMOs where PvP is core to the game. Maaaaayyyybeee Camelot Unchained could fill the hunger, but with Jacobs running that train.... it will go sideways shortly after launch and PvPers will hound the dev team and reject it.

 

Best PvP game on the market still today, IMO, is Eve Online.

Edited by Andryah
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Doom, doom, doom, doom!

Never understood why PvP players seem to need so much handed to them to actually PvP. Go to a shared world and drum up some open world PvP events. Go use the few free for all areas like Outlaws Den on Tatooine or Ilum's Westen plain.

 

The trouble is a large section of Bioware supporters and Star Wars gamers are not PvP players and turned up for the story and little else.

Of course it's never that easy to define what a particular player is going to stick around to play, but given the direction of convenience features and the focus on story content recently I doubt the hardcore MMO fans are the prime market (and given the IP they never should have been).

 

Yeah... in general, the PvP segment of the MMO population now days are among the most needy and demanding. They no longer seem to be able to self-organize and go out and do PvP for PvP sake. Most are only in it for the rewards these days. And yes PvPers, this is a broad generalization and I am sure there are still some mature and well adjusted PvPers playing MMOs... but they seem to do so quietly and without the need to spam jello all over the forum floors at every perceived sleight by a studio. The vocal discontented give this facet of the genre a bad name IMO, which is too bad because I have known some really great PvP players and guilds in MMOs over the years.

 

I miss the old days when PvP was about realm and guild pride and putting it over on the other realms (a la DAoC). That was PvP worth doing.. and there were no rewards other then realm and guild pride of accomplishment.

Edited by Andryah
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This is NOT a PvP centered game, and never has been. Sure it has some PvP features in it, but they are not the core of the game for most players. PvPers need to pursue MMOs where PvP is more central to the core of the game design... Period. then again.. there are very few MMOs where PvP is core to the game. Maaaaayyyybeee Camelot Unchained could fill the hunger, but with Jacobs running that train.... it will go sideways shortly after launch and PvPers will hound the dev team and reject it.

 

Best PvP game on the market still today, IMO, is Eve Online.

 

PvP was a huge factor in SWTORs development cycle.

The limited weapon choice is a remnant of the Devs wanting Advanced Class to be visually represented (as was the original intent to have very specific armour sets before the roll out of adaptive armour sets.).

A lot of the balancing of abilities still seems to focus on the PvP pass rather than the PvE mechanics.

 

A big part of the trouble with MMOs is they feel the need to force one set of mechanics on every game style. The best solution to this quandary in my opinion would be to break away from that mould and have separate mechanics for the different elements of the game and develop a more modular structure.

Share the core art assets but develop separate engines and games that link back into a central social hub, branch out some mini-games to gaming on tablets/mobiles so that there is always a point of contact with the player base.

I'm not sure the player base that supports Bioware and the larger Star Wars fanbase ever wanted a hardcore MMO with the traditional endgame grind. The direction to more accessible content that doesn't require a huge sacrifice of time appeals to the wider market.

If only they could strike a balance by introducing some specific role based challenges (hopefully this is part of why Eternal Championship was rolled back).

Edited by Vhaegrant
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Ironically, SWTOR has a better chance at surviving with its "un-MMO" heavy focus on solo story than most other titles in the genre. Destiny and Division are 'winning' right now primarly because they present themselves as NOT-MMOs lol. The term has become toxic both among gamers and developers fixated on MMO definition.

 

Yeah.. player psychology has shifted a lot over the years, and with the proliferation of pseudo-free games and console games, and those who crave them and consume them, are a large factor in the shift I think.

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PvP was a huge factor in SWTORs development cycle.

The limited weapon choice is a remnant of the Devs wanting Advanced Class to be visually represented (as was the original intent to have very specific armour sets before the roll out of adaptive armour sets.).

A lot of the balancing of abilities still seems to focus on the PvP pass rather than the PvE mechanics.

 

A big part of the trouble with MMOs is they feel the need to force one set of mechanics on every game style. The best solution to this quandary in my opinion would be to break away from that mould and have separate mechanics for the different elements of the game and develop a more modular structure.

Share the core art assets but develop separate engines and games that link back into a central social hub, branch out some mini-games to gaming on tablets/mobiles so that there is always a point of contact with the player base.

 

Yeah. This MMO during development wanted to be all things to all people. Unrealistic, IMO, no matter how much time, talent, and money you have. And history has certainly validated my opinion on this.

 

PvE and PvP design really do not mix well in MMOs IMO. Heck even in DAoC, they did not mix well, and players ALWAYS complained about class balance issues and flavor of the month syndrome. But that game was about PvE to get ready for and prosecute PvP between realms, so the collision of wants and needs between PvE and PvP were somewhat limited.

 

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).

Edited by Andryah
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Yeah. This MMO during development wanted to be all things to all people. Unrealistic, IMO, no matter how much time, talent, and money you have. And history has certainly validated my opinion on this.

 

PvE and PvP design really do not mix well in MMOs IMO. Heck even in DAoC, they did not mix well, and players ALWAYS complained about class balance issues and flavor of the month syndrome. But that game was about PvE to get ready for and prosecute PvP between realms, so the collision of wants and needs between PvE and PvP were somewhat limited.

 

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).

 

I think the division extend not just to the differences between PvE and PvP play but also to the different demands between group play and solo play.

A solo player here for the story rarely encounters any balanced challenge that allows them to grow in confidence with their skills before they enter into group play. Instead, after a rather flattering solo experience as you play through the class stories (still some of the best Star Wars game content out there, and Star Wars story telling in general) regaling in how you are the best of the best... you then suffer the ignominy of being stamped flat by trash mobs as you try to get through a Heroic... or whitewashed by a premade team on vent in a warzone.

No wonder new comers are less than eager to dip their figurative toes into the paddling pool of group play ;)

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Wildstar was one of them games i was so excited for, spent alot upfront to get CE edition, only to find the game itself was an even more cartoonish version of WoW.

i have top spec PC but the amount of crashes i had was what led me to quit, the game tried to cater for the western market but in turn ruined itself

as for EQN, i stopped at EQ2, where it felt they were forcing people to spend RL money to get ahead

SWTOR in comparison i can see going on for a good few many years, though I will admit BW need to get their act together, as it is right now, it feels like they are chucking out beta content and calling it a head start

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In a game designed like this "Theme Park" you have to actually play to support it. This is not like SWG that just merely subscribing supports it because SWG was a sandbox of endless open world events that went on for ever. This game relies on group ques to happen and when they don't, people leave.

 

SWG has instanced PVP but also had a HUGE open world PVP that went on ever single day and night in a place called restuss. Players didn't need que pops to appear to PVP. They could go to restuss day and night and fight in small or large 100 vs 100 fights. It didn't matter.

 

This is a good game, but its design requires people to log in and que. When the que pops stop, people leave and leave in groves. 188 US servers that are no longer in existence will prove what I am saying is correct.

 

Truth be told, SWTOR is on life support at this point. Server to server ques should have been built into this game before launch. To late to fix and my understanding is that they built this game on a sub standard engine that can not even support it even if they wanted to.

 

Trouble times ahead, and I am not talking about the distant future, I am talking very shortly for this game.

 

SWG was the greatest game EVER. Sure... That why it shut down. Blame EA for it all you want but the truth is it SUCKED. They kept changing core design of the game and nerf any challenge into the ground. They turned large group content into solo content. Get over it SWG was horrible. Never once had more subs than SWTOR. **** pong on the Atari was superior game to SWG.

 

On Topic:

Didn't Wildstar focus more heavily on group content? Sorry stop following the game when I saw the horrible cartoon and Dev trying way to heard to apply to the younger player.

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Yeah. This MMO during development wanted to be all things to all people. Unrealistic, IMO, no matter how much time, talent, and money you have. And history has certainly validated my opinion on this.

 

PvE and PvP design really do not mix well in MMOs IMO. Heck even in DAoC, they did not mix well, and players ALWAYS complained about class balance issues and flavor of the month syndrome. But that game was about PvE to get ready for and prosecute PvP between realms, so the collision of wants and needs between PvE and PvP were somewhat limited.

 

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).

 

Funny this would come up. I posted this recently. Almost the opposite of "niche".

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8825215#post8825215

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