That is literally called giving special treatment to one niche and minority type of players simply for doing OPS while screwing everyone else's progression aka the majority.

Dude, you need to tone down the rhetoric a bit. We’re all pissed off at the situation, but your continued attacks towards OPs players isn’t earning you any friends. They can’t control what BioWare has done anymore than you can.

And Rion is right with regards to the actual irating. One irating higher doesn’t mean much when it comes to performance.

The real issue with these changes isn’t the irating, it’s exclusive early access to the mods vendor in 7.1.

Also, remember that the mod vendor won’t be available to anyone in 7.0. And if you have a full set of 306 optimised armor, it will probable be better than any static gear rubbish we get because it is optimised with the right stats.

The issue we all should be discussing isn’t the higher irating, it’s the early exclusive access to the mods vendor. Which could give OPs players an unfair advantage in other group content (like pvp) for months and months. Not because the irating is higher, but because they’ll be able to properly optimise their stats.

That is the part I find offensive about this gearing system. We will all “eventually” get access, but how long will we have to wait after 7.1? It could be a month or it could be 3-9 months.

BioWare could easily fix this by adding a mods vendor for every gear type. So when 7.1 is launched and the gear irating goes up one ilvl, then the mods vendor starts selling mods for that gear type and ilvl.

Ie, from what I can tell, the PVP gear will actually be the lowest irated gear and there will be a stat cap and stat booster so everyone will have similar irating. All BioWare needs to do is add a mods vendor at the next irating in 7.1.

They can just as easily do it for conquest gear and flash point gear too.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to being able to optimise your gear and stats for your preferred game play, which is actually more important than having the highest irating.

Unless they are working on a later patch or something, i agree the 7.0 content is small even though the new changes and systems probably took a decent amount of resources it still feels little.

Yet the people they hired are working on something, question is what and when are we gonna be seeing results.

Very likely never.

If you're a veteran player still playing SWTOR, you've experienced almost everything it has to offer. Based on what was done for the 7.0 PTS and some of the design we have already seen for its character creation overhaul, SWTOR is likely getting a port to a non-PC system. This is probably also why combat and class design is being changed so much.

Like they've done before, BW will leverage the existing class stories and content, sell a lot of existing CM items to new players, and maybe some of those new folks will stick around and play some group or solo endgame. In other words, efficient profits with minimal effort and resources dedicated toward new level-cap content, and little emphasis on long-term player retention.

The idea that SWTOR will be getting more playable updates than in the past? There's literally the better part of a decade of proof that won't happen.

Basically every year after 2013 has had less playable content, multiplayer and solo, introduced in its patches. Every year has also generally had less story, with the exception of 4.0/KotFE, which didn't add any multiplayer PVE content to the game.

I honestly don't get why players expect to see a change in how SWTOR is run after so long, beyond perhaps being fond of a unique game featuring the Old Republic era in Star Wars, one that's still live after 10 years.

Even CM items don't get released as frequently any longer, and that has inarguably been the one part of the game EA has consistently funded well.

7.x is the first expansion cycle I'm confident I won't play through, having kept up with the game since early 1.x, given how BW is changing much of what I enjoy about combat/class design and limiting how the game can be played at level cap at the same time. I doubt it will take more than a couple evenings to play each faction's story. I used to still enjoy engaging the old content, leveling story/PVE/PVP/GSF/Conquest, switching up what I did in-game from time to time, but it seems BW is going for a different type of player with 7.0, limiting the usefulness of alts and paths to properly gear characters to jump into any type of content. This doesn't even address how much of the game's content will be misaligned with the redesigned classes and need fixes.

I'll withhold final judgement until after the 14th, but am not optimistic about what BW has decided to do. Almost nobody in our guild likes the upcoming changes either, and it's one of the largest in the game. We don't understand BW's decisions, other than to assume a non-PC port must have a lot of potential money in it, and is worth potentially losing plenty of longtime or current subscribers over.

Very likely never.

 

If you're a veteran player still playing SWTOR, you've experienced almost everything it has to offer. Based on what was done for the 7.0 PTS and some of the design we have already seen for its character creation overhaul, SWTOR is likely getting a port to a non-PC system. This is probably also why combat and class design is being changed so much.

 

Like they've done before, BW will leverage the existing class stories and content, sell a lot of existing CM items to new players, and maybe some of those new folks will stick around and play some group or solo endgame. In other words, efficient profits with minimal effort and resources dedicated toward new level-cap content, and little emphasis on long-term player retention.

 

The idea that SWTOR will be getting more playable updates than in the past? There's literally the better part of a decade of proof that won't happen.

6.0 was quite a big update imo, 7.0 is tiny compared to that and you have to remember a lot of resources were spend on untangling combat styles from origin stories and the class changes. And the think is, all major mmorpgs got screwed during covid with content being far lighter and gutted so I am not surprised if that affected the swtor team as well.

The combat class design has not changed much and it doesnt need to in order to be ported, FF14 is played in consoles and it has almost the same amount of skills, they all instead are dps skills instead of the more interesting utility skills. So number of buttons is not really relevant when it comes to porting something to consoles.

If anything the class changes are good because some dcds were getting out of control, i am definitely interested in seeing how the new balance will settle with all the changes now that class overall have less stuns, mobility, dcds etc.

Removing abilities = / = "content"

If there were problems in PvP with stun-locks or "perma-stun", then institute a small period of time where a player CAN'T be stunned.

Removing abilities = / = "content"

 

If there were problems in PvP with stun-locks or "perma-stun", then institute a small period of time where a player CAN'T be stunned.

What they are doing really has nothing to do with pvp what so ever. And it’s certainly got nothing to do with stuns as they haven’t been removed.

6.0 was quite a big update imo, 7.0 is tiny compared to that and you have to remember a lot of resources were spend on untangling combat styles from origin stories and the class changes. And the think is, all major mmorpgs got screwed during covid with content being far lighter and gutted so I am not surprised if that affected the swtor team as well.

 

The combat class design has not changed much and it doesnt need to in order to be ported, FF14 is played in consoles and it has almost the same amount of skills, they all instead are dps skills instead of the more interesting utility skills. So number of buttons is not really relevant when it comes to porting something to consoles.

 

If anything the class changes are good because some dcds were getting out of control, i am definitely interested in seeing how the new balance will settle with all the changes now that class overall have less stuns, mobility, dcds etc.

Please explain which DCDs we’re out of control and that BioWare have fixed in 7.0.

1. Mercs will still have the majority of theirs and now be OP

2. Operatives will still have all of theirs and be more OP than now

3. Most of the other classes have kept most of theirs

4. But poor DPS Juggs who were already underperforming in ranked got theirs knocked into the dirt so much they won’t be viable in any form of pvp.

Im honestly interested in what you think BioWare has done will improve anything in pvp?

Removing abilities = / = "content"

 

If there were problems in PvP with stun-locks or "perma-stun", then institute a small period of time where a player CAN'T be stunned.

Nobody is implying removing abilities is "content", removing abilities=attempt to balance many problems that have gotten out of control since many classes had a ton of dcds, mobilidy, control etc.

We ll see how it goes, it is definitely a good start but some classes cough cough merc cough cough didnt get affected as much.

Nobody is implying removing abilities is "content", removing abilities=attempt to balance many problems that have gotten out of control since many classes had a ton of dcds, mobilidy, control etc.

We ll see how it goes, it is definitely a good start but some classes cough cough merc cough cough didnt get affected as much.

You can beat a Merc the same way you can beat a Jugg....

stun and let things fall off them...Patience is a virtue.

Nobody is implying removing abilities is "content", removing abilities=attempt to balance many problems that have gotten out of control since many classes had a ton of dcds, mobilidy, control etc.

We ll see how it goes, it is definitely a good start but some classes cough cough merc cough cough didnt get affected as much.

And none of that has changed for 90% of the class specs. In fact some of the worst offenders of that have hardly been touched at all (looking at you Operatives and Mercs). While other classes that weren’t a problem have been destroyed by these changes (DPS Juggs). So your conclusions on why they did what they did are all wrong.

Good grief ...

 

This is getting out of control!

 

** Sorry but 7.0 is not taking the game back to it's roots ! That is an opinion (and that's fine) .. but it's also just an opinion.

 

** The changes that are coming ... "are what they are". We will either like them or we won't !

 

** Pushing out ANY group of players (PvP / PvE / Solo / guilds (large or small) ... IS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE !! Period !!

 

** Continuously cutting down on the amount of content that is being released is downsizing the game ! Period !

 

** Removing aspects of the game that made it what it once was is NOT returning it to it's roots ... it IS redefining what it is coming in the future.

 

** Most of these changes I've just listed are negative in nature. ( Kind of makes one wonder what sort of impact will follow).

 

When the time comes, I will see what is left of the game that I've played .. what we have ... what the new "expectations are" .. and IF it's fun to play then I'll stick around. I know for some that will be a disappointment (sorry, but the old man is just plain stubborn about such matters).

 

In any case I'm not so sure "celebration" fits what we are looking at right now !! Maybe something will change in the next week or so. Hopefully, there have been secret meetings, planning fun events and other items that simply has yet to be released.

 

AND HOPEFULLY ... some folks can see things with a different perspective without delineations implicating such demeaning attributes or connotations. Our passion for our point of view should not come at the expense of an apathetic attitude toward respect !

 

Whatever aspect of the game any of us enjoy .. do so to the fullest and have FUN!

 

I hope that's not too much to ask !

Addressing these points:

** Sorry but 7.0 is not taking the game back to it's roots ! That is an opinion (and that's fine) .. but it's also just an opinion.

Technically, that's not exactly my argument. I did say 7.0 is shifting things back towards rewarding grouping, which IS true and why I am back. If this wasn't true in the spirit of how I conveyed it - I wouldn't be here. So its lazy to characterize it and then dismiss it how you did - that's not the spirit in which I conveyed it.

** The changes that are coming ... "are what they are". We will either like them or we won't !

Agreed

** Pushing out ANY group of players (PvP / PvE / Solo / guilds (large or small) ... IS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE !! Period !!

Like it or not, platitudes won't make this game come back to a higher level of success. The truth is, even with more people and in increased budget, there still is a limit to what the developers can make in a given year (or two in this case). So it may mean hard choices repurposing existing content, that leave some players feeling alienated. And in a sense, that's what BioWare has decided to do. And sometimes, as a business decision, you have to take a short term setback in order to move your business forward to a better and healthier place. And even if your conviction is right and the game DOES end up in a better place, it will never feel that way to the people "left behind". But by the same token, decisions shouldn't be made based on what the player base left behind thinks.

** Continuously cutting down on the amount of content that is being released is downsizing the game ! Period !

I hear this argument a bit nowadays, but I remember Makeb was small. Then we got SoR. Omicron was small when released. We've had bigger and smaller releases before, so to make like there is this dwindling content issue in SWTOR is disingenuous and ignorant of the facts.

** Removing aspects of the game that made it what it once was is NOT returning it to it's roots ... it IS redefining what it is coming in the future.

What do you call it when the aspects of the game that are being removed have no ties to what SWTOR was once, but the new things being put in do call back to a form of what SWTOR originally had? You intentionally misrepresent the argument here. The state of the game in 6.0 is NOT how thing always were. 7.0 is restoring some things in terms of group play incentive. That isn't up for debate and it doesn't suddenly become untrue because you refuse to acknowledge it.

** Most of these changes I've just listed are negative in nature. ( Kind of makes one wonder what sort of impact will follow).

As I have said - I understand why those who remain here feel those changes are negative in nature. But I am BACK after 2 years BECAUSE of those changes. What's negative to YOU isn't necessarily negative to ME. And others I have seen also have been coming back, stating the same reasons I have.

When the time comes, I will see what is left of the game that I've played .. what we have ... what the new "expectations are" .. and IF it's fun to play then I'll stick around. I know for some that will be a disappointment (sorry, but the old man is just plain stubborn about such matters).

Honestly, that's all ANYONE should be doing. It's silly to me, some people's determination to "pre-hate" the game based on changes they haven't even experienced yet.

In any case I'm not so sure "celebration" fits what we are looking at right now !! Maybe something will change in the next week or so. Hopefully, there have been secret meetings, planning fun events and other items that simply has yet to be released.

AND HOPEFULLY ... some folks can see things with a different perspective without delineations implicating such demeaning attributes or connotations. Our passion for our point of view should not come at the expense of an apathetic attitude toward respect !

I don't disagree, but don't misrepresent my side of the argument please.

Whatever aspect of the game any of us enjoy .. do so to the fullest and have FUN!

100% agreed.

They are going to break the game. You don't change the games core mechanics 10 years later/.

I just saw in the developers thread that its only going affect new characters, so seems to me they know it will break the game if they implant if fully.

They are going to break the game. You don't change the games core mechanics 10 years later/.

 

I just saw in the developers thread that its only going affect new characters, so seems to me they know it will break the game if they implant if fully.

That will lead to unusual balancing issues. Are you a "new" {CLASS} or "old" {CLASS}?

They are going to break the game. You don't change the games core mechanics 10 years later/.

I am gonna say that games are often unable to deal with big change in any form well, all mmorpgs who ever had to make big changes for very rational and good reasons were still met with an enormous emotional community backlash and doomsaying.

People who play games are just not able to handle change well and devs know it which is why they often ignore community reactions when they have to introduce major changes for some reason, we ve seen that in countless mmorpgs over the years.