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Gearing Feedback

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JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
12.15.2021 , 11:47 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Main gearing acquisition and upgrade flows are now on PTS!
  • How does the flow of acquiring gear feel?
  • What are your thoughts on the pace to acquire gear?
  • Feel free to leave general feedback as well

Thank you!
Jackie | Community Manager
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Akushii's Avatar


Akushii
12.15.2021 , 06:02 PM | #2
Could we get more details on this? I logged into the PTS and am seeing the same gearing vendor with 318 gear. Was there suppose to be a quest for upgrading gear? I saw the Weekly Operation missions, Flashpoint/Uprising missions and Weekly PvP missions. Are these supposed to be the main method of gear acquisition?
Peace is a Lie

DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
12.15.2021 , 07:48 PM | #3
At first glance, I like the new approach to gearing. Its seems mostly fair and somewhat straightforward to understand. Might need to make it more clear that weeklies are repeatable though, because that's gonna trip up a bunch of inexperienced players that think they can only do a weekly once per week like has been the case for the past 10 years.

Ops Boss Drops
By far the biggest concern I have is needing to move back to loot lists or some other sort form of loot rules to efficiently and fairly distribute loot with my raid team. I loathed doing that in prior expansions. It was extremely tricky and annoying to be both fair and efficient while accounting for absences, new team members, and substitutes, and had the potential to create a lot of drama and confusion. I don't feel that moving everything to personal drops does much to address this problem and makes it more tedious when trying to distribute loot. The set bonus drops in 6.0 were acceptable because only a few members could even use the gear and it almost never was BiS anyway.

Personal loot drops do ensure fair distribution over time if you don't trade anything, but it isn't efficient. If you have a new team member who has less gear, they are gonna be perpetually undergeared and drops other players receive might not be as beneficial to them as they would be for the new team member (Columi to Rakata is less of an upgrade than Tionese to Rakata). If someone is behind on gearing, other team members will have to give up their gear in order for that player to gear up efficiently, which sacrifices fairness. I also don't enjoy nagging people to gear faster or be unable to reward the players that do gear faster.

I strongly prefer if all loot is completely personal and untradeable so that we wouldn't have to worry about this at all. I know this will result in less flexibility and greater inefficiency, but I know I will end up distributing loot according to complicated loot rules if I am given that opportunity. I would accept a sort of middleground toggle where you can choose to give all loot to a single player (untradable) that could be enabled at the beginning of an operation, no exceptions, so that people who just want to gear up a buddy can still do so. That sort of toggle is too unfair for me to use on a regular basis.

Legendary Items Mission
That Legendary Items Technological Advancements mission is pretty long. It's not too bad if you only have to do it once per Legacy, but it's insane if you have to do it on every toon. VM and MM ops neuro-key points also don't reflect the difficulty increase. Make it so MM ops bosses give 10 points instead, or maybe even higher. I feel like 1 MM Operation + Conquest should be enough to complete the mission, especially if you have to do it on every toon. Not a fan of Solo Ranked providing so much less than Group Ranked either. I think Solo Ranked should match whatever MM Ops bosses give and then Group Ranked should be even higher than that.

Gear Vendors
I don't get why there's a separate vendor for FP and Conquest upgrades if they both use the same type of gear. If the vendors are gonna be smart and only show you upgrades you can afford, why not just use a single PvE upgrade vendor for all types of PvE gear? Honestly though, it seems like the upgrade process would be better handled through crafting or the item modification stations than a vendor, but whatever.

Ops Weeklies
I think it would be good to reexamine how Weeklies for Operations work. I think requiring players to kill every boss in an op is fine for SM and VM (though it seems you only need Zorn and Toth for the EC weekly), but it's a bit of a harder ask for MM since final bosses tend to be much more challenging, especially while people are still gearing and clearing individual bosses is still somewhat momentous outside of a few easy bosses. Might be better to structure the MM Ops weeklies like staged bonus missions where you get a box for the first 2 bosses in that op, then another box for the next 2 (or maybe just mats), and then a box and mats for the final boss. Maybe a bigger box every 3 bosses instead for ops with an even number of bosses. The only MM Op where this would be a bit easy to abuse is S&V, though you could do 3 bosses per stage with that one. Everywhere else has at least 1 hard boss per 2 encounters.

Alternatively, you could just shift more of the emphasis for gearing to actual boss drops instead of weeklies for MM.

Pacing
I don't have any comments about the rate at which gear is earned at this time. I have not tested it yet.

JakRoanin's Avatar


JakRoanin
12.15.2021 , 08:10 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Main gearing acquisition and upgrade flows are now on PTS!
  • How does the flow of acquiring gear feel?
  • What are your thoughts on the pace to acquire gear?
  • Feel free to leave general feedback as well

Thank you!
The Junk And that is what it is, the conquest 'so-called' Conquest Gear is, is in a word, a disgrace. I swear Ms. Ko I'm not trying to be a witch with a B, but this is just flat out wrong. I get gearing through conquest isn't intended to give you BiS stats. Okay I can begrudgingly accept that, but why are the lower sats so badly optimized? Taking away our ability to mod, and adjust our gear is a travesty, spitting in the faces of loyal paying customers! Not to mention that the prototype gear has the exact same stats as the green!

Whoever came up with this was wrong. Very wrong. I don't expect anything to change in Feb. But there had better be some long meetings and plans to get this mess fixed.
THE SOLARIS LEGACY The Gray Order & The Envisioned Empire Guilds

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
12.15.2021 , 08:59 PM | #5
Please give us the ability for all players to mod our gear in 7.0. This static gear is rubbish and not worth time trying to get. My 306 gear is better optimised,

You could add Mods to the mods vendor at their current highest iRated gear for each type or you could just switch all the static gear to a moddable model so we can pull stuff out and replace it from other gear we pick up (like the current green 268-272 items in the live game).

Please listen to this feed back. NOBODY wants this static gear. PLEASE switch it to a moddable version with the same irating.

ralphieceaser's Avatar


ralphieceaser
12.15.2021 , 09:34 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
How does the flow of acquiring gear feel?
Very problematic, we are going from doing an MM FP and getting drowned in rewards and feels great, which some might be useful some might not and we ll just scrap into a currency to further progress our gear goals to maybe getting one item per boss.
You dont feel your time is rewarded as much anymore and that contrast is very big between the current system and 7.0 and people will feel the lack of rewards a lot, this happened in WoW shadowloands season 1, WoW was never generous with loot and the further nerf to rewards caused a huge outcry and exodus to the point devs had to reinstate the previous loot system.
I feel it might be worse in Swtor because swtor has been very generous, and going from that to 7.0 its gonna be problematic.

At the very least, we should be able to scrap gear we dont want for a currency we can use to buy gear/upgrade so at least, the time doesnt feel wasted and can be used to further our power progression in some way so that currency never loses its value similar to tech fragments.
Even when you are fully geared tech fragments have value due to being able to buy crafting mats for augments or to buy gear for alts, that means the currency is never worthless and your time spend getting it was worth it.

Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
What are your thoughts on the pace to acquire gear?
It might feel decent right now that it takes a while to grind to max but I would highly suggest to reduce the pace so it takes longer to upgrade and increase the rewards so we dont feel our time is wasted when we do content, so in a sense the pace would be similar, you just adjust both ends.

Specifically because I dont believe there's anykind of bad luck protection meaning at some point you are bound to keep getting items you dont need while trying to target few specific slots, that makes you feel like your entire time spend was completely wasted, a major issue.

In addition upgrade currency has a major flaw, because at some point that currency because worthless either because it is capped per week or because you have a ton of it but nothing good to upgrade, that leads to your time spend feel wasted again. Consider making it work similar to tech fragments, can be received by scrapping loot and lets us buy base gear to further upgrade for our alts or crafting mats.

Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Feel free to leave general feedback as well
Raid or die model is very outdated, a design philosophy who mainly survives because due to being the norm rather than because it is embraced or supported by the market.

I will start by pointing out the success of Solo que LFG systems in mmorpgs, these allowed people to experience and enjoy content they previously wouldnt because it was locked behind the social barrier of social interaction, many of us including myself just want to log in, do some content we enjoy and get rewarded for our time.

High end raiding was never very popular even though it was highly incentivized by locking the best rewards behind it, a major reason behind that is just like the pre solo que LFG era, it requires social interaction many of us want to avoid, we just want to have fun and progress our power, but a raid or die system means that our power cannot be progressed to max unless we force ourselves through the uncomfortable and unfun process of social interaction in order to enjoy max gear progression.

6.0 system even though RNG has been great for power progression, because it means no matter what we do, WE ARE REWARDED FOR OUR TIME, we are closer to reaching that 306 max perfect power. I agree reaching that was far too quick, the pace was far too fast, I could gear to 306 in just a week or two so I absolutely agree the pacing needed fixing.
But it allowed everyone to experience the joy of max power progression something that will no longer be available in 7.0 unless they force themselves to do high end raiding, which I personally will but historically speaking casuals never get pushed into high end organized group content no matter how great the rewards art because the social barrier is this much of a problem, many either quit or accept they ll never get it even though they want the rewards, or some buy boosts.

So please very seriously reconsider this approach to gearing, give everyone the chance to reach max ilvl based on the content they desire and simply make high end raiding be way faster in terms of pacing. The pace was very quick which could explain why many people reached 306 and felt there was not much to do in 6.0, so if you fix the pacing, the gearing system in 6.0 might have been perfect.

There is also a thread talking about mmo devs pushing casual/solo mindset players in group content in the mmorpg site which you may find interesting to read because I know many mmo devs seem to have trouble comprehending the idea that some enjoy mmorpgs with a solo mindset.
And based on the fact that solo ques have been a giant success in getting people into content they wouldnt otherwise touch, I am assuming that belief is also supported by the market which makes me ask, why are we not focusing more on that group and instead try to force high end raiding on everyone who enjoys power progression?

Why not give everyone the joy of power progression via grinding? With easier content being slower in pace it means they spend that much more time to reach that max rating and power, why are you cutting their power progression short and telling them they should do high end raids if they want more? Because we know most of the casuals will never do that, instead they will stop playing or bothering, but if that max power was achievable they would have a reason to continue and spend more time ingame.


In addition I honestly am not sure why there is no stat diversity in the available gear, why dont we have 3 types of boots per content, one with alacrity, one with crit and one with accuracy etc, why is stat customization taking a huge hit right now? This is imo a major issue that should be very easy to fix.

Inyahin's Avatar


Inyahin
12.16.2021 , 07:33 AM | #7
can we please have the ability to slot different sets of upgrades in our armour shells?
eg,
bank 1: we slot endurance/absorbtion armour/mod/ehnacements (for tanking)
bank 2: we slot crit/accuracy (for melee dps)
bank 3: we slot crit/alacrity (for healing)

And then for each loadout, instead of picking different armour; we can select which bank to use;

This will be a lot better than having to manage multple sets of armour and having to set aside valuable inventory space for them.

Additionally; can set bonunes from armour be removable items installed in shells so they can be removed and fitted into cartel and/or other armour shells.

Pricia's Avatar


Pricia
12.16.2021 , 02:26 PM | #8
First - why do my characters copied from live have worse stats on the PTS (306 gear)? I mean, doing the same content at 80 on PTS is harder than on live at 75 with the same gear and it's just not right.

Second - I ran Secrets of the Enclave in story mode and got a hazardous matter catalyst from a trash mob. I'm guessing it's not intended (but if you could randomly drop SOLO upgrade items in story mode FPs that would be swell).

Third - still doing Secrets of the Enclave - I got a flashpoint upgrade part from a boss. I play solo. I have no desire to get flashpoint upgrade parts from a STORY flashpoint. Give us CONQUEST upgrade parts. Or even better, give us the CHOICE!

Fourth - currently on live, running a story flashpoint at level cap with basic green gear has a high chance of giving us upgrades. On PTS... total disappointment. You'd have to run one two or three times to get ONE piece of the lower level flashpoint gear. Ugh. So awful.

Otherwise, I said it before, but a 999 cap on medals of commendations is VERY lame. The reward for completing CQ on more than 4 characters is a total joke too (25k credits and 100 tech fragments... Seriously?).

At this rate, it's going to take YEARS to gear up our alts for people who have a bunch. That it's bound to legacy is a joke for "conquest" players because we don't get drops, so we'll have to upgrade everything from scratch for every single character. And also I have absolutely 0 interest in wasting 5 minutes putting gear in and out of the legacy vault every time I switch characters.

For soloers with a lot of alts like me... the system is a total disgrace. Not even fun to play alts anymore when gearing is going to take years and there's basically a joke of a reward for going through 100.000 CQ points after the 4th alt.

This system is going to make me stop grinding altogether. I'll do GS2 and maybe 100,000 CQ points on 4 toons and log for the week. I'll end up playing less because there's no point starting something that will take me YEARS.

For a game that encourages making alts, it's a slap in the face.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
12.16.2021 , 09:19 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Inyahin View Post

Additionally; can set bonunes from armour be removable items installed in shells so they can be removed and fitted into cartel and/or other armour shells.
There will be no set bonuses on Armor shells as of 7.0 and lvl 80. Set bonuses will be linked to implants instead. So you don’t need set bonuses for cartel Armor.

onidakken's Avatar


onidakken
12.16.2021 , 10:49 PM | #10
Bad gearing, my 306 sin has better stats than 318. im not sure what the thought process is. It takes a very long time to get the neuro leveled.. i solo, dont care for ops. but i shouldnt be penalized for playing solo. Which ,atm, feels like i am. My chars lhave to redo skill bars every time i swap loadout. that is not any fun. the whole idea of the swap is plain silly. if i want to play sorc instead of sin..i'd log it in. Losing skills i use is kinda bad too. this seems like a big telephone pole shoved up my.... We are now being told that if ya want top gear and you solo/casual play..yer outta luck.