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Leveling Experience Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Leveling Experience Feedback
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JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
11.10.2021 , 12:47 PM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Please use this thread to offer your feedback on the leveling experiencing beginning with a Level 1 character.

Reminder that because character create is not fully functional, please create a Level 1 character on live and copy it over to the PTS server.

Please answer the following questions:
  • How does the character feel in gameplay in general.
  • How is the pacing of when abilities are granted?
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!
Jackie | Community Manager
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BallisticKaine's Avatar


BallisticKaine
11.10.2021 , 03:49 PM | #2
I started a Vanguard and played up through till about level 10 and gotta say that the slow release of abilities is pathetic. level 1 I have my basic attack and flare. Then I get stockstrike at 3 or 4. my next ability isn't till level 15??? WTH is up with that.

DWho's Avatar


DWho
11.10.2021 , 05:51 PM | #3
I played a Level 1 sentinel through level 40. The biggest complaint is that the class no longer feels like a smooth combatant. The abilities feel clunky and don't fit together smoothly. I found myself using the basic attack more often than on live because there were fewer abilities and they were slow to come off cooldown. When you do line up a group of attacks it's alright, but those opportunities are few and far between even in longer battles. All of the battles also take a lot longer so the whole thing feels like you are slogging through molasses.

I am currently leveling a Sentinel on live and it feels a lot smoother at level 10 than the one on the PTS felt at level 30.

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
11.10.2021 , 06:56 PM | #4
Just because why not, I tried making a character through character create on the PTS and it did actually work. I was able to get into the game as a level 1 sith inquisitor with a juggernaut combat style, so is there a particular reason we shouldn't just do that? Is there some sort of bug that we should be aware of because I was able to click through all the buttons and play the game seemingly normally.

Juggernaut seems mostly fine with the early game ability spread (though it's still worse than live of course due to having less abilities) and I'll test more when I have time.

Powertech from what I played is terrible with only a few abilities in the first 10-15 levels - exacerbated by the horrible experience in the ABC tree where you only get your first choice at level 23. Overpruning a combat style that already had the lowest amount of abilities in the game is very apparent here.

The ABC choices need to go back to level 10. A 22 level gap is far far far too high considering the lack of abilities some combat styles now have between levels 1-20. For most combat styles, you rely heavily upon those early abilities, passives and morphs to perform well - they're what define and differentiate one discipline to the other. At that point you might as well lock disciplines entirely until level 23 since they don't really do anything before then.

Playing early flashpoints is going to be extremely boring at least for the Powertech and low level characters will rely entirely on high level teammates to carry them through group finder. Healing and tanking prior to getting their first discipline specific ability and morph will be impractical to say the least - more so for healers.
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
11.10.2021 , 11:40 PM | #5
I downloaded the PTS just for this. I leveled a immortals juggernaut to 4 on both test and real servers so I could directly compare.

-At level 2 ended up in a cutsene to offer me a choice for guardian animations since I picked 1 light side choice. As a body type 3 male it centered on my chest and not my face. WIP? It was also choppy, didn't explain diddly squat and had zero voice acting. Was the NPC supposed to be voiced? Then I was immediate given a choice of a second combat style with next to no explanation of what was going on. No hover over to explain the different classes, but at least a confirmation? The whole thing seems like players are expected to study SWTORista before playing for the first time.

-The new inventory is horrible. Why is it tied to the character sheet so I have a character sheet overlapping a character sheet/inventory? Text fields a jumbled mess. Nothing aligns. I'm hoping this is a pre-alpha we are looking at.

-So down to combat. On pts I got a 3rd attack at lvl 4. It looked and felt like I was hacking at things with a golf club. Boring and ugly. Going back to the live server and having twice the skills was an actual relief. Everything flowed so much better and looked so much more graceful.

- I only got a fraction of the loot on PTS than I did on live. Was that a matter of bad luck or are you taking out the low level gear. Please, for the love of god, please tell me you didn't butcher the loot table? I use that gear for cosmetics!

- Speaking of low level gear. Quest #1 "Blade of Ancients" gives out a lvl 7 lightsaber instead of the Apprentice Practice Blade. I cant use it for 3 more levels, and it makes no sense at that point in the story. Then to my horror, quest #2 got a changed reward as well. Now instead of the unique Apprentice Pummeler Mk-1 chest, there is a very often used skin called Korriban Battler Jacket, which is also lvl 7 and can't be used for 3 more levels.

So what are you going to do with the unique starter planet armors that you are replacing? There are some really cool ones and I will be very grumpy if you took them out of the game without a plan on how to get them into players hands.

To sum up PTS vs Live lvl 2-4, PTS is a significant downgrade in the new character experience and I am now extremely worried about what you have done to low level gear.
Where is Theron?
Give him as much screen time as the creepy blond stalker!

DWho's Avatar


DWho
11.11.2021 , 01:17 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DWho View Post
I played a Level 1 sentinel through level 40. The biggest complaint is that the class no longer feels like a smooth combatant. The abilities feel clunky and don't fit together smoothly. I found myself using the basic attack more often than on live because there were fewer abilities and they were slow to come off cooldown. When you do line up a group of attacks it's alright, but those opportunities are few and far between even in longer battles. All of the battles also take a lot longer so the whole thing feels like you are slogging through molasses.

I am currently leveling a Sentinel on live and it feels a lot smoother at level 10 than the one on the PTS felt at level 30.
To follow up on this:

I made a new character just in case there was something in the latest update that would have fixed the issues. Leveling was basically the same as I had seen with the previous character. I played as if I was a starting player (no mounts on Tython, no companion until T-7 joined - I did see a lot of people "testing" using both fast mounts and Shae Vizla as a companion). So far through level 20 (Combat Sentinel):

1) The first 15 or so levels are very clunky and the abilities do not flow together well. The attack sequence was pretty much always Force Leap (to charge up for Slash) followed by 2 Slash followed by 3 Strike to get back to being able to do one Slash (rinse and repeat). A very boring sequence that doesn't even look good. The sentinel class is also very vulnerable to split mobs with ranged attacks on each side. You use up you closer to attack the first mob (which you need to do to charge up for Slash) then have to slow walk to the next one, the whole time taking a pounding from the ranged attacker (I don't think a low level sentinel will be viable in lowbies PVP like this). It starts to get better from level 15 to 20 as a few more abilities become available. I'm not sure if it is a bug or working as intended but there were still two abilities I could not train at all that were on the trainer (the "you are not the right discipline" message). One of those was force sweep, a classic sentinel maneuver for dealing with multiple enemies. The class is otherwise lacking any ability to deal damage to multiple opponents.

2) Leveling crafting is a hot mess at low level. There is almost nothing to craft that is worth the time to do it. Hopefully there are more options later other than just "improved versions" of the 8 schematics that were available. Leveling crafting is slow with only one companion so I'll have to move a more experienced character to the PTS to see the whole show.

3) Conquest took an extremely long time, especially near the end where I noticed, non-Storytime missions were yieldiing less than 100 CXP for completion. All in all it took over 5 hours to get to 100K with a leveling character..

I'll be doing some more testing from lvl 20-40 which seemed like it was better on the previous run through, though in that one a was able to train force sweep. Without that, this run through may be very tedious.

Scarr_swtor's Avatar


Scarr_swtor
11.11.2021 , 03:04 AM | #7
Character 1 background:
Created sith sorcerer and copied over to pts.

Leveling and questing:
Leveled the character to lvl 3 then entered the training the force quest, this gives me the choice to select my primary combat style, I selected guardian and the had the choice for the secondary style and I chose sage, I then leveled to 4 thought to see a trainer on korriban to get new abilities if any, however I was not able to speak to them as I am not a warrior or inquisitor (pure assumption but would fit) I can still use my holo-trainer that I had copied across. This would be less than ideal for a new player. this also breaks the quest "A Fighting Chance" as you can not speak to the trainers, using the holo-trainer at this location does not work for the quest.

Character 2:
Created a sith marauder and copied across.
proceeded to perform the above situation, succeeded to retrain as a jedi sentinel and jedi sage, again at level 4 was unable to use inquisitor or warrior trainers on Korriban, also noticed that when changing styles from sentinel to sage it would remove all gear as a sage can not use medium armor that is given to the sentinel.

Character 3:
Created Sorc on pts (I realize this was not the preferred way but want to make sure the issue wasn't from transfer)
Performed the same steps as character 1 with the exact same results however as was not transferred I had not holo-trainer to use

Some Bugs:
Noticed that sometimes you can not change between combat styles without having to log out and then back in, it would be nice that when you change combat styles it would remember the previously selected discipline (not sure if WIP), further to this point i trained as a guardian then tried to swap directly to sage just to see what happens with the trainer and was not able to swap needed to log out and back in.
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Scarr_swtor's Avatar


Scarr_swtor
11.11.2021 , 04:20 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
-The new inventory is horrible. Why is it tied to the character sheet so I have a character sheet overlapping a character sheet/inventory? Text fields a jumbled mess. Nothing aligns. I'm hoping this is a pre-alpha we are looking at.
As far as I am aware the original character sheet will not be staying on release, just the new sheet. I believe the old one is just there as a few things in the new character sheet are still a WIP(Work In Progress).
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Lakemine's Avatar


Lakemine
11.11.2021 , 06:41 AM | #9
I don't know where else to put this (if there is a specific forum for the combat style's feedback, direct me to it and i'll copy and paste) but i'll second what someone else said about the new "choosing your secondary spec." Both for Force and Tech users. There is NO EXPLANATION AT ALL for abilities and what they do. Which.......if we could switch secondary specs on the fly or pay for it over time, that would be fine. But since it is a ONE TIME ONLY AND PERMANENT, there needs to be WAY more information in the choosing a secondary screen. Explaining which each combat style is, which weapon, explaining all of the abilities you will get and which you can choose from and the 3 different advance specs each combat style has.

Also, with being only able to pick ONE secondary combat style, AND its permanent.......this either feels like lying from the 7.0 announcement live stream or deceptive marketing or manipulation. And it hurts.

Why can't we switch more specs later on? I get only having 2 to switch back and forth on AT THE GAMEPLAY MOMENT, but why can't we later flip out our secondary for another one we like/want to try?

If i'm a commando, and I pick mercenary, but then want to later tank, why can't I switch to PT? Why am I stuck with ONLY commando and mercenary? Was this ALWAYS the plan or did it change? Because if it was the former, communication was failed multiple times over, if it is the later, why oh why oh WHY was that NOT communicated before?
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Negivv's Avatar


Negivv
11.11.2021 , 07:11 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Lakemine View Post
Also, with being only able to pick ONE secondary combat style, AND its permanent.......this either feels like lying from the 7.0 announcement live stream or deceptive marketing or manipulation. And it hurts.

Why can't we switch more specs later on? I get only having 2 to switch back and forth on AT THE GAMEPLAY MOMENT, but why can't we later flip out our secondary for another one we like/want to try?

If i'm a commando, and I pick mercenary, but then want to later tank, why can't I switch to PT? Why am I stuck with ONLY commando and mercenary? Was this ALWAYS the plan or did it change? Because if it was the former, communication was failed multiple times over, if it is the later, why oh why oh WHY was that NOT communicated before?
It was explained that they initially considered a more fluid system to change classes like the one FFXIV uses, but then decided for the current one to not completely invalidate the Legacy system. If they had allowed to change classes at will, from their POV, it would have made the need for alts redundant. They want us to make alts, because it's what the game has been about so far, so we are locked to 2 permanent choices. With the chance going forward that a third loadout MIGHT be added, possibly expanding the choices available.