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Vanguard Feedback Thread

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CommunityTeam's Avatar


CommunityTeam
10.29.2021 , 09:18 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Vanguard.

Please answer the following questions:
  • Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Vanguard? Why or why not?
  • If you have feedback on the different discipline, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
  • As you’re beginning from level 1, do you feel you have enough abilities that keep gameplay interesting?
  • Are you able to defeat enemies at a reasonable rate?
  • Do all your abilities feel like they’re working together?

Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!

EDIT: Added additional feedback questions.
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The_Hightower's Avatar


The_Hightower
10.29.2021 , 09:47 AM | #2
Shall we level the chars on Ord Mantell first? No droid to get to the fleet seems to be there and the shuttle can't be used at level 1 or 2 either....

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
10.29.2021 , 11:33 AM | #3
I second the lack of fleet droid on Ord Mantell.
I can't see it anywhere in the starting area nor at Fort Garnik, so I'm levelling up to 10 so that I can get the emergency fleet pass.


First impression back on the PTS is that having a gap between level 1 and 23 for the ability tree is too much. I can kind of get that the devs maybe want new players to get to know their base abilities before playing with the ability tree, but a) you don't get every base ability before level 23 and b) 23 is just a weird number to start at.
I still think that there should be ability morphs for the last two discipline specific abilities - which would completely fill the gaps that currently exist.

Secondly, storm / rocket charge are STILL opt in abilities. This is terrible and needs to change. Harpoon is not a substitute for the vanguard or powertech's gap-closers - of which they have none baseline. Harpoon does not pull you into a boss so you can deal damage. Harpoon also has 3x the cooldown. Vanguards and powertechs are melee combat styles and as such, NEED a gap closer baseline to effectively engage their targets.

Imagine marauders and guardians without force charge. No one would play them. It makes no sense whatsoever that the combat styles with the least amount of base abilities lost both their gap-closers simply to fill an ability pruning quota (and I'm only saying that because I truly have no idea what other reason there is for making both gap-closers on a melee class opt in).

If the devs are indeed certain on neutering the ways in which vanguard and powertechs can engage their targets, they should instead become a half range combat style where every ability has a 15-20m range (apart from maybe stockstrike though it could just have different animation at range). If this were to happen, I'd be much more ok with storm and hold the line being opt in.

If storm is once again made baseline, the level 35 slot storm currently holds could just be replaced by a passive granting storm an additional charge or reducing its cooldown when you are attacked (the same as the live guardian utility).

Editing this just to say that having looked at a class trainer and the levels we will be getting abilities, I am thoroughly glad that I have as many max level characters as I do. I originally thought I'd love levelling new characters with 2 combat styles, but I really don't want to level a new character if I have only 3 active abilities between 1-15 and have to wait til 23 to get my first discipline ability. This seems like it will be a fairly poor new player experience in my opinion.
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

The_Hightower's Avatar


The_Hightower
10.29.2021 , 11:39 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
I second the lack of fleet droid on Ord Mantell.
I can't see it anywhere in the starting area nor at Fort Garnik, so I'm levelling up to 10 so that I can get the emergency fleet pass.
In my case level 7 was sufficient for the shuttle.

Cavtarus's Avatar


Cavtarus
10.29.2021 , 11:45 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
Secondly, storm / rocket charge are STILL opt in abilities. This is terrible and needs to change. Harpoon is not a substitute for the vanguard or powertech's gap-closers - of which they have none baseline. Harpoon does not pull you into a boss so you can deal damage. Harpoon also has 3x the cooldown. Vanguards and powertechs are melee combat styles and as such, NEED a gap closer baseline to effectively engage their targets.
That's why you got 10 meter abilities, more standoff distance as a trade off for poor gap closers. And it's not like VGs weren't one of the best pve classes before storm was baseline in 3.0 either. p.s. since the other passives suck you just take storm in that row almost every time anyway, who cares.

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
10.29.2021 , 11:52 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Cavtarus View Post
That's why you got 10 meter abilities, more standoff distance as a trade off for poor gap closers. And it's not like VGs weren't one of the best pve classes before storm was baseline in 3.0 either. p.s. since the other passives suck you just take storm in that row almost every time anyway, who cares.
The point of an ability tree is that each level should make you think about the options inside it.
If one of the choices stands out so far above all the others and is an auto-take, then the ability tree system will have failed before it launches.
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

Baletraeger's Avatar


Baletraeger
10.29.2021 , 12:40 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
The point of an ability tree is that each level should make you think about the options inside it.
If one of the choices stands out so far above all the others and is an auto-take, then the ability tree system will have failed before it launches.
100% THIS!

Each choice in the tree should be interested for the player, not punishing.
For example, we should not be choosing between storm and harpoon. We should be getting Harpoon and then having three choices on how to augment it to suit our playstyle. We should get Energy Shield and then three choices on how to augment it to suit our playstyle, etc. We should get Shoulder Cannon and then have three choices that augment it. These three augments can be made out of existing skills and utilities, thus allowing the combining of abilities and reduction, and having either/or choices that at least make sense.
The ability choices in every planned Combat Style in 7.0 are filled with punishing choices instead of interesting or compelling ones.
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Cavtarus's Avatar


Cavtarus
10.29.2021 , 01:39 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
If one of the choices stands out so far above all the others and is an auto-take, then the ability tree system will have failed before it launches.
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
Vanguards and powertechs are melee combat styles and as such, NEED a gap closer baseline to effectively engage their targets.
Your posts don't seem to be agreeing with each other, "This needs to be baseline vs these two options aren't as compelliing". A lot of classes have choices that are pretty cut and dry, operatives choosing stun for pvp, sorcs choosing phase walk, Maras getting undying, etc. It is a consequence of existing utilities being pressed into direct competition with each other (though those harpoon talents are kinda weak).

A class shouldn't have better range, mobility, and defensives than all its cometition. It has to have something it lacks that you have to play around. VG as is has too much of everything and needs to lose something.

Lakemine's Avatar


Lakemine
10.29.2021 , 07:17 PM | #9
VG seems almost the same as live. Which I can not tell you how HAPPY I am for that. I have been dreading this xpac for months, and detested many many MANY things (still do btw) BUT being able to test one class I like and its not gutted or screwed up extensively? I actually have some small glimmer of hope and happiness to hang onto when the deluge of negative things I dont like assaults me when 7.0 releases, so hopefully that small hope can withhold me to continue to play.

I detest the "choice" at lv73, I wish I had all 3. But can't change it, so have to live with it like a passive aggressive relationship. The name changes seem.....odd? But as long as they work the same, I dont think i'll care.

So atm, if it has to launch like this? I think I can be ok with it. It plays the same as my current build. (Just missing the hard CC, a few passives and the tac that gives instant energy blast with power yield/infused kolto pack activation. Which......I LOVE IT, but if I have to sacrifice something else, I can live without it.) Please try to keep what its current build is on the PTR as close to what it is when it goes live. (Unless other people who know VG tank better then I do, have better ideas.)

It is hard for me to say something positive, as this xpac is changing so many different things, and its making the people I have been playing with for 8-9 years leave the game, and its very very very saddening. But I dont wish ill will on any of you, so stay safe none the less.
I love Star Wars.

LadyAdmiral's Avatar


LadyAdmiral
10.29.2021 , 08:14 PM | #10
I can't figure out if I did something wrong or if this is the way it's supposed to be. I had transferred my Vanguard Tank a few tests ago and then went to use the PTS upgrade to 80. There was nothing on the ability trainer.
  • Pulse Cannon being the "default" choice in the tree was very confusing (level 27 choice). I can't even tell how it is different than Ion Storm other than it has to be channelled. It seems like a downgrade and is REALLY unfun to use in battle due to the channel.
  • Disruptor Rifle being the "default" choice in the tree was very confusing (level 43 choice). When I was looking for Energy Blast.
  • Storm being renamed Impact Charge was very confusing. I thought my leap was missing the entire time I tested. Combat is much less fun without leap lol.
  • Power Yield I can't figure out if it is missing or got renamed or replaced.
  • I still had Cryo Grenade even though I chose Shield Cannon in the level 73 choice. This fixed itself when I re-chose a different option, then re-chose Shield Cannon.
  • I thought I was missing a ton of base abilities because of these at first combined with the lvl 73 choice that actively removes abilities.
  • Level 35 choice - I CAN PULL ALLIES!?!?!?!?! TRANSPOSE MOVE OVER! A NEW TROLL HAS BEEN BORN!

I tried to make a new level 1 but with no droid to shuttle me I didn't feel like levelling on Ord Mantell lol.
~ Swtorista