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Jedi Sentinel Feedback

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KaellSolaris's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 04:47 AM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
So a few important things on the PTS update for sentinels. As of now, carnage and fury would have higher damage than any other spec in the current 6.3 version of the game. I've gotten 90k autocrits from the trauma version of raging burst combined with the autocrit from zen. You can get 80k aoe autocrits if you take the aoe version of raging burst. This is all with high unmin-maxed gear. I basically had 6.9k power while making crits that high. In the current version with fully min-maxed gear, those would hit for a well over 100k aoe, and maybe even a 150k single target raging burst that applies trauma. I don't know what the health values will be in the new update, but damage that high might be slightly overpowered despite the fact that sentinels can be relatively squishy at times.
Number won't mean anything, and in the current state there is only two options :
  • It stay that way : and welcome to Star Wars : Galaxy of Sentinel/Maurauder, because what will be the point to have any other classes in PVE/PVP while you can "cheese" anything with multiple Sentinel/Maurauder.
  • It is tune down : the scale down will take into account the insane burst at full stack and the full stack and Sentinel/Maurauder will have a hard time when they have to regain all their stack or keep it, and the squishiness will nt help at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
Secondly, I noticed that predation and the speed boost from critting in carnage spec actually stacks. You end up running around atleast 130% speed when both buffs are active. Honestly it feels like 150-200% movement speed. If I ever saw something that fast moving in the current 6.3 swtor build, I would assume it was speedhacks. As fun as that is, it would be nearly impossible to track a sentinel moving at that speed. Mobility-wise, nothing could catch up to something moving at that speed, and targeting it in pvp would be absolute cancer. The desync would be ungodly for a class moving that fast.
Operative desync during Exfiltrate is already a pain, and it is probably not intended to be able to move this fast, also the balancing with the speed movement / damage scalling utility will be a nightmare to balance.

Quote: Originally Posted by Llacertus View Post
The description of Swiftness is also incorrect. The buff gives atleast 10% movement speed per stack and 10% crit chance per stack. With the imperial agent buff, that ends up being around a 93% constant crit chance for every ability in the carnage's kit. I think this is actually balanced. It provides a strong damage boost and mobility to make up for the lack of dcds.
If carnage and fury were released as is into 6.3, I would be happy with both. Annihilation appears to need some work however. With the level of burst and crits in fury and carnage, there's no way annihilation can keep up. It was already struggling in pvp in the current meta, and it needs a must stronger buff to perform well.
Unfortunatly we can't be sure about any of that, we don't have the stat for lvl 80 and we are missing half of the classes on the pts, also there was no extended test period for pvp or operation, so we are not out of the cantina on this one

Aethyriel's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 09:02 AM | #182
Since the changes were revised, I took another look and there are still major issues that have not been addressed.

15: Critical Melt vs Juyo Melt vs Melting Center

So, this boils down to AE vs Burst vs Sustained ST dmg, doesn't it? Doesn't change what anything does, just changes what it's good for. However, theory crafters will figure out the exact numbers and people will just take 'the best' option. Melting Center imo is the only 'good' idea though as it actually rewards timing your Zen use while the others just add damage.

20: here, you choose between doing more ST damage and having raid utility. Every single time Transcendence is needed, you will choose it. This is not an option and never will be. If a Marauder in my group told me he doesn't want to skill transcendence because of his DPS, then he'll be out.

30: Are you changing tacticals? Because why would you use Cauterize when it refreshes anyway? Focus makes no sense. Same for Force Lash. You gimp your AE dmg due to losing a spreadable dot and make your tactical pointless. At least flaming wave makes sense.

But Generally speaking here - for class flavour: STOP removing dots from the dot class! What is wrong with you?

level 35: I don't understand... I can just not have my set bonus if I don't choose Force Clarity (or we'll be getting all new sets) even though you could make Force Clarity a passive buff and make it still works while removing it as an ability you need to use. The other 2 choices come down to the numbers. You have the sustained option with zen or the burst option with the extra damage.

generally speaking: The design philosophy so far has shown me that you want Marauders to just keep switching the skills they choose on a encounter per encounter basis. Because no one choice is generally satisfactory, I'd be switching around for virtually everything which is really annoying.

level 50: As anyone can attest to who played something more challenging - the 30% dmg reduce is not optional. This is not a choice. You just removed being able to quickly change targets as a melee more often.

Level 60: Jedi Adjudicator is obviously and by far the best choice. 15% measly damage increase for an already crappy skill you barely use because dot spread and then continuing ST damage is way better and same crappy heal every 3 minutes? C'mon people...

level 70: This is total BS. You remove the self-cleanse from Force Camo making it a bad cooldown because the damage reduce is gone the second you attack something again. Blade Blitz is a ****** skill with a way too long CD and not enough damage. It's used as a defensive cooldown to cheese one shot mechanics and high dmg stuff. It functions like guarded by the force for the most part. You'd just end up using what makes more sense per encounter.

Level 80: Yeah, 2% dmg reduction and more Zen is obviously the best thing for PVE, but you put a tier 1 skill and a tier 3 skill (former) as the level 80 choice? That's lazy.

Overall - some good ideas like Flaming Wave and level 15 Melt skills also seem fun but sadly are pitted against each other. Most other choices just make no sense given our Tacticals and Set Bonus. Unless you change those, the skills just make zero sense. I don't understand why you don't make transcendence baseline. This is expected from every Marauder to have most of the time. Removing a threat dump and self-cleanse makes things very problematic when healers can't readily dispel others and you can't control your threat at all. really bad change to Force Camo. It's such a classic and defining ability of the Marauder that has been around since forever.

JackieKo's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 02:37 PM | #183 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post
Jackie, can we get an update on this please? Is this still accurate? Guardians have Force Stasis now, but I don't see it on my Sentinel at all. I made a new one just in case it was added with today's update and that didn't change anything, nor did changing specs or talking to the droid multiple times. It's just not there for Sentinels.
Hi The-Kaitou-Kid,

Confirming that it is only on Guardians, so what is currently available on Sentinels is intended.
Jackie | Community Manager
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KaellSolaris's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 03:01 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Hi The-Kaitou-Kid,

Confirming that it is only on Guardians, so what is currently available on Sentinels is intended.
So it is intended for Sentinel to no longer have any form of CC in the future ?

The-Kaitou-Kid's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 07:00 PM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Hi The-Kaitou-Kid,

Confirming that it is only on Guardians, so what is currently available on Sentinels is intended.
Can we have some explanation on that then, please? Not having any dedicated CC is definitely going to be a pain, I was fine with Awe being removed from Sentinels, but losing Force Stasis as well is beyond frustrating. Having a hard stun comes in handy in all sorts of PVE content, especially given the cooldown on interrupts. It's not always useful, but it's far from useless and there's no reason for Sentinels to have it taken away from them.

Keep in mind, too, that while the "iconic" nature of the ability on a Sentinel may be debatable (although its utility isn't, in my opinion), the Imperial mirror of this situation means Marauders lose Force Choke. That's their Heroic Moment ability, an iconic Warrior ability that will now be exclusive to only one of the two Warrior Combat Styles.

There was a post given for Guardians explaining some of the decisions, and while I'm fine with several of the changes I've seen so far for Sentinels (pending gearing changes), this here needs an explanation and we got nothing for Sentinels. We got some quiet changes and then moved right along to Agents. The absence of Force Stasis/Force Choke will be felt and I feel we deserve an explanation on why the class is having its dedicated hard stun, considered iconic enough to be a Heroic Moment ability, completely removed.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Omega's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 08:43 PM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Hi The-Kaitou-Kid,

Confirming that it is only on Guardians, so what is currently available on Sentinels is intended.
I am not okay with that. Force Stasis / Force Choke is a large part of being a Jedi/Sith. It's iconic to the Knight/Warrior. I see no reason why it should be removed.

Dyne-'s Avatar

08.27.2021 , 10:34 PM | #187
Imagine playing the Sith Warrior story, the Wrath of the Empire, and being unable to force choke people lol.

I'm just going to throw this out there to Jackie and the dev team. I didn't even think it needed to be said. One of the worst things in this game that keeps happening is watching NPCs do all kinds of crazy force powered shenanigans in and out of cutscenes, and our characters are not capable of any of it.

Arcann does this on a regular basis, Senya spends her time force leaping around in cutscenes, Vaylin is creating force storms and throwing motorcycles and taking out gunships, yet we as players are losing our force abilities?

It's bad enough that our characters don't respond with their own force powers, but now we can't do it in game either?

What's next, mercs losing tracer missile and rocket out? Sorcs losing force lightning? Jedi / Sith that can't deflect blaster bolts?

Nee-Elder's Avatar

08.27.2021 , 11:08 PM | #188
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyne- View Post
One of the worst things in this game that keeps happening is watching NPCs do all kinds of crazy force powered shenanigans in and out of cutscenes, and our characters are not capable of any of it.
QFE ^ !!!!!! i've been saying (sometimes screaming) the exact same thing since BETA testing back in 2011

Never tell me the odds! - (Fix SPACE! 4.0ur *Community*)

MiralukaJedi's Avatar

08.28.2021 , 12:04 AM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by The-Kaitou-Kid View Post

Keep in mind, too, that while the "iconic" nature of the ability on a Sentinel may be debatable (although its utility isn't, in my opinion), the Imperial mirror of this situation means Marauders lose Force Choke. That's their Heroic Moment ability, an iconic Warrior ability that will now be exclusive to only one of the two Warrior Combat Styles.
To be fair that's basically in line with half the classes at this point.

Operatives don't have Orbital Strike
Assassins don't have Force Lightning
Gunslingers don't have Dirty Kick (albeit they CAN have Below the Belt which is close if they pick it)
Mercenaries don't have Flame Thrower (if I recall? Pretty sure its Powertech only?)

Project is available to both Sage and Shadow
Smash is available to both Sentinel and Guardian
Sticky Grenade is available to both Vanguard and Commando

Choke is currently available to both, but as you mentioned it won't be.

So at presents its 4/4 split. This just makes it a 5/3.

At this rate maybe Shadow will lose Project :P
Dread Slayer Kelaeon
Concealment/Lethality Operative
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igonnakillya's Avatar

08.28.2021 , 01:35 AM | #190
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
With our next phase of PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Sentinel.

Please answer the following questions:
  • What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?
  • Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?
  • If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!


Hey Team!

Thank you for reading this post. I've been playing the game since beta in Fall 2011 prior to launch. My first class choice and main class choice, in beta and post launch of the game is and always will be the Watchman Jedi Sentinel/Annihilation Sith Marauder. This class means a lot to me and has been my main connection to this universe for 10 years. I've been through every single iteration of this class/combat style (even when they were combat trees) from beta 2011 all the way to the most recent patch. I have many insights/suggestions on my favorite class. But first...

and foremost, thank you again for all of the hard work you do. Especially, during a time that's been tough on everyone. Thank you also for allowing the space for us (the players) to communicate to you about the future of our characters, which mean so much to us. Thank you.

My PTS Character Combat Style choice was
WATCHMAN Jedi Sentinel
Combat Style tree "A"

Essential or Unique Abilities
I've been playing for several hours on the PTS (Uprisings, Flashpoints, Heroics, PVP) and I want to start with outlining the most important abilities that are ESSENTIAL to this Combat Style. The two essentials not worth mentioning are Force Might/Unnatural Might and Introspection/Channel Hatred. We assume these are givens. (For clarity purposes, I have listed the Annihilation Sith Marauder ability names after the forward slash and some notes on where they should be in the tree.)

Strike/Assault - can combine with Blade Barrage/Ravage, maybe?
Zealous Strike/Battering Assault - not listed anywhere on the tree in PTS or forum
Cauterize/Rupture - move up to earlier in the tree, possibly replace with Blade Storm/Force Scream
Slash/Vicious Slash
Merciless Slash/Annihilate
Force Melt/Force Rend
Force Leap/Force Charge
Rebuke/Cloak of Pain - not listed anywhere on the tree in PTS or forum
Saber Ward/Saber Ward
Overload Saber/Deadly Saber
Force Kick/Disruption
Pacify/Obfuscate - not listed anywhere on the tree in PTS or forum
Twin Saber Throw/Dual Saber Throw
Awe/Intimidating Roar - not listed anywhere on the tree in PTS or forum
Dispatch/Vicious Throw
Force Sweep/Smash - not listed anywhere on the tree in PTS or forum, is mentioned as a combo tho, which is pretty cool, if this gets deleted for that, that would be cool.

I use each of these abilities in every single rotation of every single battle NO MATTER WHAT. They are essential to the build. Let's talk about why for a second.

Main Purpose of the Combat Style (Watchman/Annihilation)
What is the main purpose of the Watchman/Annihilation Combat Style? The Watchman/Annihilation style is all about sustained damage or DoTs and self-healing from these DoTs. I've seen many posts about Combat/Carnage and Concentration/Rage Styles on this forum talking all about speed and mobility. Speed and mobility are essential with the Combat and Concentration combat styles (because these styles want to do burst damage, hit and run, get in, hit hard, get out); however, speed and mobility are NOT ESSENTIAL to the Watchman/Annihilation combat style. In this Combat Style, Sentinels/Marauders want to focus on a target and hit it as much as possible to stay alive. More hits=more DoTs=more self-heals. So instead of wanting to hit everything quickly, we want to stack the DoTs on top of an enemy and in some cases a lot of enemies so more enemies die quickly and we stay alive. We focus on DoTs instead of trying to dodge everything. In Star Wars lore, this combat style mirrors Count Dooku. He duels, hits people wear it hurts and feeds into their pain. If this class runs around too much, we don't have a chance to stack our DoTs and heal properly. This combat style almost acts as a quasi-tank. Stay in the fight as long as we can then get out if things get too dicey. Mobility is still helpful but speed does no good. Every single one of the abilities listed above achieves the main goal/feel of the Watchman/Annihilation Combat Style.

Abilities I never or almost never use:
Blade Storm/Force Scream - move to later in the tree or delete entirely
Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash
Valorous Call/Frenzy
Blade Blitz/Mad Dash
Leg Slash/Crippling Slash

Why I don't use these abilities?
Blade Storm/Force Scream was removed as an ability for some time during either Rise of the Hutt Cartel or Shadow of Revan. (May have even been one of the Knights' expansions) During this time, I noticed that I didn't really need it or use it anyway. I also noticed, that it doesn't add to the sustained damage bleed pool. So I took it out of my rotation and never looked back. This is fun ability to use at low levels but if your goal is to get players into their combat style sooner, give them Cauterize/Rupture this early instead. Move this ability to later when the major passives that were added come in.
Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash. I tried it out a couple times and just never got around to using it. Watchman/Annihilation is a single target combat style, why do you need two AOE hits? I personally picked the one that aesthetically looked better and applied DoTs. Wouldn't be mad if this disappeared or popped up in another ability. Maybe combine it with Leg Slash/Crippling Slash.
Valorous Call/Frenzy. I never use it. Literally ever. I don't need to. I build Fury quickly. Get rid of this ability altogether. At Lvl 35 in the tree, where you earn this ability automatically, switch it with Force Clarity/Furious Power. Therefore, we learn Force Clarity/Furious Power automatically instead while Valorous Call/Frenzy would then be a choice.
Transcendence/Predation. This ability is essential to Combat and Concentration. On the flip side, this ability is useless next to Zen/Berserk and Inspiration/Bloodthirst for the Watchman Sentinel/Annihilation Marauder. The benefits you receive from the latter are way better than the former. Plus it buffs DoTs. Did I mention we love DoTs?
Blade Blitz/Mad Dash. They are very aesthetically neat, but again this ability takes you too far away from your target. If you are too far away in the middle of combat from your enemy, DoTs run out. That's no good. Situationally, this ability is great during Operations. Especially if an OP Boss decides to start shooting all over a wide area. It is awesome to use to get out of there. However, I don't use it enough to warrant it a spot on my essential list. I recommend combining this with Resolute/Unleash. Or possibly combine this with Force Camo and Resolute/Unleash. That would actually be awesome, get out, drop threat, and get up. Those 3 abilities are situational anyways. So that could work fantastically!
Leg Slash/Crippling Slash. Super situational. I ONLY use this in PVP, if ever. It's useless in OPs and PvE. It doesn't add DoTs so why use it? We could delete this ability and I wouldn't even be mad. Maybe combine it with Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash.

Situational Abilities and Why they are Situational

Force Stasis/Force Choke
Blade Barrage/Ravage - move to later in the tree
Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage
Force Camouflage
Force Clarity/Furious Power

Resolute/Unleash. Fairly obvious. Only need it when you're facing knockdowns, stuns, etc.. That's OPs or PvP. For the Watchman/Annihilation character, they need it sometimes, but it could easily combined with something else in order to have the same intended effect. Please look at Blade Blitz/Mad Dash commentary above for more details.
Force Stasis/Force Choke. In my opinion, these are thematic abilities and nothing more. They are super cool to have and look awesome, but Awe/Intimidating Roar is better overall as a stun. This ability is useless against any Champion or higher level PvE enemy but it super fun in PvP. I vote to keep these abilities as is because they make you feel like you are playing a Star Wars character from the movies. Plus these abilities resonate with us KOTOR fans. From an objective standpoint, it is a single target DoT stun. These are all of the things we love. Watchman/Annihilation is a single target attacker, so it could be argued both ways. But if you get overwhelmed with enemies, popping Awe/intimidating Roar works better. I'm torn.
Blade Barrage/Ravage. Aesthetically insane. Looks awesome. Practically, it doesn't do much in it's current state for the Watchman/Annihilation style. Even in the PTS. It's great that you guys are adding DoT buffs to it as an ability so we can use it more. But I don't see it getting added to my rotation regularly. I do use it really whenever I want the final hit on a boss/player duel to look super cool. Super Situational and fun, but objectively not very useful to this Combat Style.
Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage. I've only used this ability a handful of times. It works really well, specifically in hardcore PvE and PvP. I use it more in PvP. It keeps me alive that extra tick so my DoT stacks kill my opponent while I live. Great Utility but could be combined with other things.
Force Camouflage. I struggled putting this on my essentials list. But then I quickly realized it could be combined with other things.This ability is only necessary for hardcore PvE and PvP content. I never use it otherwise. That being said. It has saved me on multiple occasions when my team almost wipes. So this is a definite keeper in some capacity. But I wouldn't be mad if it was combined with other abilities. Please see Blade Blitz/Mad Dash commentary above for more info.
Force Clarity/Furious Power. Definite keeper, I only use this ability during hardcore PvE and PvP content. However, as it stands in the Combat Style tree now, I would MUCH rather have this than Valorous Call/Frenzy at lvl 35.

Overall Suggestions/Feedback

Thank you for reading this post and if you got this far thank you. Or if you skipped everything and are just reading this, thank you anyway. Thank you for your time. Some final thoughts and suggestions. This Combat Style focuses on DoTs and self-healing. The Watchman/Annihilation has a very different feel than the other Sentinel/Marauder Combat styles. The only thing in common is a couple of abilities and dual lightsabers. The main goal/feel of this Watchman/Annihilation Combat Style is to be able to stay in the fight as long as possible, feed off of your enemies' and your own pain (DoTs and self-heals), take down enemies one by one, use your two lightsabers with expert finesse or skill, and get out quick if/when the enemy is about to clap down hard. The abilities of this class/combat style should focus on those things.

The main thing that I've seen go really well when deleting abilities across many games is to consolidate the amount of abilities into cool combos. For example, if you were to delete Force Camo or Blade Blitz/Mad Dash, combine them into one ability that does all of the things those 2 abilities did. Players, in general, will be much happier if we combine some buffs and passives much more than if we mess with ACTIVE abilites.

Or make abilities into auto combos. When you do a certain combination of abilities then it procs an ability that has been deleted. Therefore the deleted ability is now a passive proc. Let me give an example. If we use Cauterize/Rupture, then Slash/Vicious Slash, then Zealous Strike/Battering Assault, then finally Annihilate when an opponent is at 50% health, it will auto proc Dispatch/Vicious Throw, in which we will immediately see the animation for Dispatch/Vicious Throw and the damage associated tacked on to our enemy. Or even the Flaming Wave combo you already have is a great example!

Thank you again for your time and reading this post. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding this post or anything else. I would love to be of assistance. I hope this helped. Thank you and May the Force be with You!