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Jedi Guardian on the PTS!


JackieKo

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Blade blitz is a 100% avoidance DCD. Any Guardian/Jugg tank that does NiM content makes very extensive use of it as exactly that: a defensive cooldown that completely negates damage. Hell, the most useful setup for tanking Terror From Beyond is the dashing blademaster as it gives you more uses of one of your two ways of surviving slams (and enraged slams in particular) while basically all the other defensive armour sets don't do squat to help you stay alive. Unless the cooldown on saber reflect becomes something hilariously short (which would be a spectacularly bad idea)

this kind of has a huge negative impact on guardian tanks doing any NiM content and even some HM content.

 

Ok, so my experience is maybe more casual than yours, but what you describe here is that you want the 100% avoidance.

In the PTS we have

Blade Turning => "The first 2 seconds of Saber Ward grand 100% defense over melee and ranged attacks"

Would tweaking this And/Or tweaking the Saber Ward make it better? Like reducing the CD.

 

For me personally I want to be a tank to be able to grab the bull (boss) by its horns.

Also the 20 meters you move with blade blitz for some mobs/bosses they trigger other attacks and some of them even stun you.

So it maybe works well with "Terror From Beyond" but probably not with all OPs/FPs/etc.

 

At least this is my experience from the content I did.

So maybe that's why I'm not understanding this in the same way most people here are.

 

I'm casual and I'm using BladeBlitz even in open world to avoid some damage or run for my life when big pulls.

I also do this now, but I personally would prefer to have 100% defense while standing my ground than having 100% defense while fleeing.

 

Maybe when we get the loadouts UI it will make more sense then... Don't know...

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So like can you all just not like make it to where if you are a Force User you can be any "force spec" and if you are tech you can be any tech advance class.... why are you trying to prune abilities etc? WoW tried that and we all know how that went for that game.... just saying
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Did I say its not ability pruning?

I just said they were not just doing that, they probably did a lot of work on other things.

 

I also think that's a good example...

 

so far its mainly ability pruning and removing the ability to pick utilities, one of the good things i catched(the only so far) was making enure cleanse by default and not needing to pick the utility

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I've updated the original post with descriptions, so there's a little more clarity. I hope this is helpful for you and other players who had the same question/concern.

 

Hi Jackie,

 

It would still help if we had some understanding as to why you are pruning the abilities. Please refer to my previous post for more details.

 

Hi Jackie,

 

I wasn’t sure which thread to post this to ask about some of the changes. So apologies that I’ve made a similar post else where.

 

I’m wondering if the ability pruning is to help with desync or so each combat class has the same amount of load abilities to prevent the UI breaking or causing bugs when people switch load outs or combat styles

 

It would help if we understood the devs reason for pruning abilities. Then people testing could provide better feed back in the right context. So far I think the lack of reasoning is causing most of the anguish players are having.

 

My personal concern is the devs are trying to fix perfomance and are targeting the wrong sort of abilities. For instance if the reason is to reduce desync and improve perfomance, then why prune DCD/interrupt abilities instead of abilities that cause the desync, like speed/mobility abilities or mez/stun abilities.

 

If it’s for another reason like all classes having the same number of abilities, then there will be some concern from players like snipers, etc, who have a lot more abilities than say and Assassin who has the least amount of abilities (Probably not the best example as ones tech and ones force)

 

At the moment I feel we are in the dark too much to understand their changes and it may skew our feedback. I know it’s certainly causing a lot of player anxiety and drama. So I’m reserving my judgment till we get some more info or another iteration of the PTS.

 

But I would really appreciate it if Bioware can provide more info and answer some of the questions I’ve posed because I think it would help with the sort of feed back we give when testing. Knowing what their goal is with the changes will affect how people provide that feed back.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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So like can you all just not like make it to where if you are a Force User you can be any "force spec" and if you are tech you can be any tech advance class.... why are you trying to prune abilities etc? WoW tried that and we all know how that went for that game.... just saying

 

Yeah it was literally lie.

 

cap1.png

Edited by Kantor_omicron
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So, the question that was asked is "does this feel like a Jedi Guardian?"

 

Short answer: no. Let me explain. I main a guardian (vigilance) because it's a rather versatile class. By this I mean, even as a damage character, I have defensive abilities as well. Between focused defense, saber ward, and others, I can keep myself alive while still doing a reasonable amount of damage. I enjoy doing content solo, and guardian makes my playstyle work, as I can be a damage class, with defensive tank-like abilities, and a healer companion, thus filling the three basic roles to a degree. This felt more like a single saber sentinel than it did a guardian, all I really had were attacks, with very minimal defense. I understand this was a very simplified version of the new guardian, and may not be fully reflective of what will be released in the new update, but I think the classes need to retain some of what makes them unique, especially if they're going to be detached from the story. While I'm no expert on programming, and I'm not sure this is plausible, perhaps make the simplified combat style optional. Give people who want a more easy to use character the ability to sacrifice some abilities, perhaps at the gain of reduced cooldowns, while others who have spent months or years familiarizing themselves with their chosen style, do not have to sacrifice the way they enjoy the game. Hope this feedback is somewhat helpful.

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Yeah it was literally lie.

 

cap1.png

 

How was that a lie? That is still the plan, everything isn't available yet for testing. Now did they mention ability pruning? No, but nothing is final. We have no idea if those abilities are really going to be unavailable

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I would just like to comment first about the confusion that you've created by not consistently using the same names and not mentioning some things in the livestream.

 

I'm talking about class, advanced class, discipline and skills (active and passive). A lot of people mixed up advanced classes and disciplines when they were talking about combat styles. Also now we're talking about abilities and passives rather than active and passive skills or indeed abilities.

 

To me that confusion could've been avoided if you (BW) had been a bit more careful and consistent in the naming.

 

Then to the Jedi Guardian. You're basically making us choose between abilities/skills that we've had for many years. No new skills, no overhaul of existing skills. Just the same old stuff but we have to pick now, whereas we got them all in the past.

 

Did you not think that this wouldn't go over well? I'm really struggling to see how this could've turned out otherwise.

 

Raiders are worried about their rotations and dps/heal output. Others are worried about having to pick between iconic skills now. And then there are people who are worried that an already casual friendly game that's easy mode essentially will spill over into raiding as well.

 

So will the cooldowns of skills be adjusted now there are fewer skills available? Are other skills going to do more dps? Will there be smooth rotations? Also, at some point the new "best" will be known when it goes live and then this will be the new meta, so what is actually the point in these skill choices? What if Saberthrow is not actually in the meta? Will people enjoy playing that? And what about Utilities? What's going to happen with them or are they going to disappear?

 

These questions undoubtedly have been asked before, but I want to at least make sure that they are asked. Every expansion pretty much you manage to tick off a lot of people. Not just some, I know you can't please everyone, but just a lot of players. It makes me wonder if the player base exists for 90% out of casuals, cause then I would understand what you've done in the last two expansions and this upcoming one. But then you're still making Ops. So I'm really confused. Do you think that maybe more people will play Ops like this? I don't think so really, especially since with 6.0 you don't need to do them to get BiS gear anymore.

 

I'm just really confused about why you would make such changes, because part of this is understanding that context and now I'm just missing the context of why these changes are being made.

 

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents but rest assured that I don't like having to pick between the same skills that I had for many years.

Edited by Tsillah
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Hi Guys i just ran a PTS guardian as the team requested.

1: I get you ... Less active skill buttons, Answome, more diversity on the combat ... more unique skills per tree/combat

looking good ( But pls leave saber trow ) wheather it is a used to thing or just a rp sort of feel we need it.

2: it does feel like a guardian tank

Thankyou so much for the effort on keeping the game new... We apreciate it !

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so far its mainly ability pruning and removing the ability to pick utilities, one of the good things i catched(the only so far) was making enure cleanse by default and not needing to pick the utility

You're still gonna need to pick between enure and another important ability so it's not much a removal of utility just as hiding it behind something with another name, wich is imo worse than what it is now.

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When you first announced to change the abilities trees, I hoped for a larger variety of choises, like we had in Knights of the old republik 1 + 2 with complex trees. Thinking of the civilization game, with it very complex advancement trees, this game is simply straight foreward.

Sadly you seem to have the contrary in mind - reducings abilities, and selections.

 

Let's hope that the character generation looks more like ESO (same mashine) or in Mass Effect (same firm).

The actual character generation is *very* much basic than complex , with only two handful of faces and only four body variations instead of many thousands (of combinations, of length, weight, etc.)

 

This game is very complex, but a player can focus on some while ignoring the rest for a while. Guilds might help here, but a good handbook / documentation would help much more. Despite this, the in game docu is, best said, outdated in some points.

 

Oh, and before I forget: please allow longer names - someone like Joseph (Joe) Robinette Biden Jr. couldn't even bring in his own full name ... ;-/

Having 28 toons and I am often thinking - would be nice to see their portraits on the main screen all at once without clicking through the whole list!

Edited by LucifersDrache
adding a point, typo
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None of that is going to happen because EA isn't going to spend that kind of money to rebuild a 10 year old MMO from the ground up.

 

Moreover , the original manufacturer of the mashine is working for an update to 2.0 since *many* years. If bioware should now start to do the same, wouldn't help and needs even more time. Don't think of month here, think of decades ;-)

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After a weeks worth of play this really saddens me even more as Bio-wear seems to be taking the SoE (Sony online Entrancement) path in this update introduction. Very sad, however there is a little hope but with AE behind the scenes it may go down the same path as SoE did with SWG (Star Wars Galaxies)

 

There is however, one of two ideas pops into mind. First off, this is just speculating, there could be a new star wars MMORPG coming with Disney's e fingers in the pie now.. Or the game will end up with an SoE SWG NGE (new gaming enhancements) outcome. please see this link for detail regarding that please: https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=347371

 

My sincere hope and prayer is that unlike SoE or even AE. Bio-Wear will hope fully listen to the clients views and read the reviews. From reading what I have read to this point no one happy with this. Well I will keep testing and hoping for a brighter SWTOR.

Edited by Phkrm
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When can we roughly expect the next build iterations of the pts. Will it be days, a week, weeks or a month(s)?

 

Perhaps JackieKo will prove me wrong, but typically MMO Dev Teams don't like giving out ETA's...for anything. (see patented *Soon TM* ) . We certainly didn't like ETA'ing at 'SWGEmu' , since everytime we gave an ETA and missed that arbitrary deadline by even 1 minute, the public pitchforks would come out in droves lol

 

Anyways, for SWTOR, if we just think ahead logically here, there's what.... 4 months until a likely December target date for LIVE (holiday season) release? And there are 8 Classes (we presume) in the game. So, 8 divided by 4 = guessing at least 2 PTS phase iterations per month?

 

But i dunno , maybe try asking KappaChrisSchmidt in that "official" Discord channel and see if he's allowed to answer? :csw_jabbapet:

Edited by Nee-Elder
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I'm levelling a guardian on live because doing testing on the PTS made me feel like making another one, and at level 28 I just got my second defensive skill in enure. Then I looked at a trainer and realised that 7 out of my next 9 new abilities would be locked behind ABC choices or gone entirely. My quickbar at level 28 looks near enough the same as it does on the PTS and that scares me. I cannot imagine doing group content or surviving in PVP between levels 1-70 with just saber ward and maybe focused defence depending on whether that's removed too or not. I haven't yet gained saber throw on live and I am very much looking forward to getting it at level 36 because it's one of the classic guardian abilities that gives you a small amount of ranged threat.

 

The only abilities I have never used in PVE content are guard and freezing force. Guard because I'm not a tank and freezing force because the npcs don't run away.

In PVP I have used every single ability except for guard and cyclone slash. Guard because I'm not a tank and cyclone slash because it's much easier focusing one target than trying to hit a few potentially desyncing players for marginal dps gains.

 

Just thought it was interesting comparing experiences between levelling on live and the PTS with the knowledge of what's coming.

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I'm levelling a guardian on live because doing testing on the PTS made me feel like making another one, and at level 28 I just got my second defensive skill in enure. Then I looked at a trainer and realised that 7 out of my next 9 new abilities would be locked behind ABC choices or gone entirely. My quickbar at level 28 looks near enough the same as it does on the PTS and that scares me. I cannot imagine doing group content or surviving in PVP between levels 1-70 with just saber ward and maybe focused defence depending on whether that's removed too or not. I haven't yet gained saber throw on live and I am very much looking forward to getting it at level 36 because it's one of the classic guardian abilities that gives you a small amount of ranged threat.

 

The only abilities I have never used in PVE content are guard and freezing force. Guard because I'm not a tank and freezing force because the npcs don't run away.

In PVP I have used every single ability except for guard and cyclone slash. Guard because I'm not a tank and cyclone slash because it's much easier focusing one target than trying to hit a few potentially desyncing players for marginal dps gains.

 

Just thought it was interesting comparing experiences between levelling on live and the PTS with the knowledge of what's coming.

 

But new players from Steam or ones like them will buy lots of Cartel coins and that's all that apparently matters.

 

If this were intended to improve the classes, gameplay, and SWTOR generally, what you've posted, and what's been observed about the PTS Guardian, makes absolutely no sense.

 

I'd argue this is the most consequential change to the game since it went live, and the manner in which its being made instills little confidence. It even seems a little crazy, frankly, to try and pull off.

 

Even with fewer and less substantial content updates, I thought I'd be logging into this game until it was formally in maintenance mode. While we certainly don't have the final class changes in place to view and try out, I don't see the classes the game has had since launch being reworked to still be fun and engaging, based on what BW has stated their goals are.

 

A guildmate of mine confessed over the weekend he felt sad about the game. He genuinely sounded like it too. I guess people get really attached to their characters over a long period of time, and changing classes and gameplay so radically means folks like him, who has been an active subscriber since 2.x, are kind of being cast aside for a different group of players.

 

Is Keith Kanneg still in charge of the game? It seemed like he was more on the "hardcore" end of the player spectrum, and not likely to think suddenly simplifying combat would be a net positive.

Edited by arunav
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If this were intended to improve the classes, gameplay, and SWTOR generally, what you've posted, and what's been observed about the PTS Guardian, makes absolutely no sense.

 

I'd argue this is the most consequential change to the game since it went live, and the manner in which its being made instills little confidence. It even seems a little crazy, frankly, to try and pull off.

 

Even with fewer and less substantial content updates, I thought I'd be logging into this game until it was formally in maintenance mode. While we certainly don't have the final class changes in place to view and try out, I don't see the classes the game has had since launch being reworked to still be fun and engaging, based on what BW has stated their goals are.

 

A guildmate of mine confessed over the weekend he felt sad about the game. He genuinely sounded like it too. I guess people get really attached to their characters over a long period of time, and changing classes and gameplay so radically means folks like him, who has been an active subscriber since 2.x, are kind of being cast aside for a different group of players.

 

 

I have multiple of every advanced class in the game and rotate what class I play depending on how I feel - most at max level (at least one of each at max). I personally don't have an issue switching from class to class and spec to spec on a very regular basis. I know all the classes to at least a competent level and have no trouble with the amount of abilities currently in the game. If anything, I love when we get new ones. I also know for a fact that some players remove abilities from their hotbar because they don't see any use in them while others, such as myself, do find use in them. I shouldn't be kicked in the face for using an ability because some other player choses not to.

 

Throwing out 8-9 or so years of experience in favour of dumbing the game down doesn't sit right with me. Guardian doesn't feel more streamlined on the PTS, it feels like it's lacking options and utility. How am I supposed to interact with the game and engage with it when I can't mad dash to the next group of targets, saber throw a far away target to pull aggro, use my defensives to counter incoming attacks?

 

I've made a few posts about it but I really do think removing abilities from the ABC system and going fully into the passive choices is the way to go. Ability morphs vs choosing whether to have an ability or not is much more interesting and engaging. Give me Awe by default but at level x let me choose to make it slow after it ends, become a shorter duration hard stun or give a shield to allies for e.g. Don't make me choose between a passive rotational damage increase and getting Awe / saber throw / dispatch...

 

Time to kill is high in PVP but the solution has been there since the launch of this game. Separate PVP and PVE balance. It works in other MMOs and it would work in this one.

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  • Dev Post

Hi everyone,

 

We're looking at a new patch for PTS that will include a high level look into Sentinel, and targeting next week to launch it. Should the timeline change, I will be sure to let you all know.

 

Details will be provided in similar fashion as to when the Jedi Guardian PTS was live once the patch is available.

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Hi everyone,

 

We're looking at a new patch for PTS that will include a high level look into Sentinel, and targeting next week to launch it. Should the timeline change, I will be sure to let you all know.

 

Details will be provided in similar fashion as to when the Jedi Guardian PTS was live once the patch is available.

 

Thanks for the update!

 

Will mirror classes also appear on the PTS or are we only going to be testing things from a Republic perspective?

 

Also, will we see the Guardian return on the PTS at a later stage if and when feedback is taken into consideration?

Edited by LordCamTheGreat
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It has been a bit hard to really understand the class and how it's going to be changing without getting a proper look at the choices that we will have to make. Since we are only getting a loadout, we can't see the big picture and can't give proper feedback.

 

Would it be possible to get a visual representation of the skill tree or choices that we will have to make? It doesn't have to be in the game, but if we can get like a dev post or an image of the potential skill tree that we might get, it would help a lot.

 

It's hard to give feedback, when we are getting a very narrow view of the class.

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hi everyone,

 

we're looking at a new patch for pts that will include a high level look into sentinel, and targeting next week to launch it. Should the timeline change, i will be sure to let you all know.

 

Details will be provided in similar fashion as to when the jedi guardian pts was live once the patch is available.

 

popcorn.gif

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