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Jedi Guardian Feedback

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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.15.2021 , 09:03 PM | #261
All I can say from testing is “I’m depressed” with these changes.

My main Alts are Rage Jugg / Focus Guardian and it feels like you’ve gutted the class severely on the defensive abilities and the other missing abilities makes it not feel like a Guardian anymore.

If your aim is to dumb down the classes, then all you’ve succeeded is making it unexciting and weak. It’s certainly not fun.

I tested both Focus A and B load outs in veteran mode flash points (that I can usually solo on my focus guardian).
Before doing so, I spent time to get my gear to 306 and close to BiS as you can on the pts.
I also used gifts to get my companion up to lvl 20 (which is usually fine for veteran). It wasn’t possible to complete any of the flash points I tried.
I then tried Onderon and while I didn’t die, the specs felt weak and clunky.

(Missing 10 abilities on the pts compared to live server). Removing some of these had a negative impact on my enjoyment

No resolute - stun break (I really hope that’s a bug)
No Sabre throw (to build up focus or attack ranged targets)
No Awe (AOE stun)
No Guardian leap
No challenging call
No Enure
No combat focus (can’t build focus before a fight)
No freezing force
No force kick
No force clarity

Choosing between blade blitz (load A) and Sabre reflect (load B) is just dumb (sorry I have no other way to describe that)

If you really want to prune the spec, then look at what Focus could do without, ie guard and taunt. But you’ve given them to us while removing DCDs like Enure and making use choose to have reflect or blade blitz. It make zero sense.

There are abilities you could easily prune and not ruin the class as they aren’t as dependent to make the spec work smoothly in combat. Ie get rid of tanking abilities for focus.
If we need tanking, we can switch load outs to the tank spec. It makes less sense to keep tanking abilities on a burst dps. And dps off tanking is what causes issues in pvp.

Riposte (not a major part of the rotation)
Slash (is really only a filler)
Cyclone slash (completely worthless ability)
Guard
Taunt
Challenging call
Guardian leap
Force Clarity
Strike (it’s only a filler that is rarely used)

The perfect ability build for me would be with the following abilities (in no specific order).
Please keep these below abilities on the focus spec Guardian on the next build so we can test and report. And don’t make us choose between them and passives.

Sabre Throw
Force leap
Force exhaustion
Focused burst
Concentrated slice
Blade Barrage
Sundering strike
Blade storm
Dispatch
Zealous leap
Force sweep
Combat focus
Sabre reflect
Sabre ward
Focus defence
Enure
Force kick
Awe
Force stasis
Freezing force
Resolute
Blade blitz

I use everyone of these ability’s playing pvp and master mode pve content solo. Without all of those abilities, the play will be clunky and cookie cutter and won’t feel like a focus guardian.

I really hope you guys are taking peoples negative feedback as a sign that you’re on the wrong path if you think this is going to keep players in the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

Please answer the following questions:
  • Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  • Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?
  • What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  • How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?
  • If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking. Please include the specific Discipline and ability path you chose.

Thank you!
To be completely honest, I’m a little cranky that you guys thought this is what players wanted.
I’m so deeply disappointed and depressed after testing, that I’ve lost interest in playing the live game until we get some answers to our feedback.
I tried to stay emotionless writing this, but it feels like you’ve taken my favourite puppy out the back to be put down.

How about telling us what the actual intent of the pruning is so we can try and get our heads around that first. Then we can offer some feedback on what pruning would actually work vs what you guys guess.
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Costello's Avatar


Costello
07.16.2021 , 12:36 AM | #262
Aside from adding a room to a stronghold about 5 years ago has there ever been any changes made from the PTS?

What is the purpose of these changes, is it to dumb down the game?
If Yes, why?
Is it for a console port?
A belief that you have to be an idiot to play this game so the target audience need it dumbed down?
Keith has got to the age that its just too many things to remember?

If its not to dumb the game down, what is the purpose?
Will it see a wholesale reduction in DPS, Tanking, Healing and Utility as we have the half the number of skills but they have the same cool downs so basic attack becomes our go to?
Is this the best use of an incredibly small development team? Would not more content and more story not be better than dumbing down the game?
If combat changes are the focus over content and then looking to encourage replaying old content via Galactic Seasons would not more options, more variety, more build choices so people can customise their play style to play however they want be better to at least make running that flashpoint again more fun. Where as this nerf and dumbing down seems like it will have the opposite effect on people wanting to run the content making it more of a chore as you have a dumbed down experience.

DavidHugo's Avatar


DavidHugo
07.16.2021 , 01:29 AM | #263
I'm not gonna answer any of feedback questions, I'll just say, if this made it to live server, I'll treat SWTOR as free-chatting app with 3D avatar and animated emote. So go ahead dumb down the game, if necessary take all abilities except ability to type message and chat. I'll stop subbing and stop doing game activites.

Crystal_Mind's Avatar


Crystal_Mind
07.16.2021 , 06:07 AM | #264
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
No combat focus (can’t build focus before a fight)...
...I've seen several people saying now that they didn't have combat focus on PTS, but I had it in every spec I tried. Did you talk to the droid twice and check your powers menu?

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.16.2021 , 07:40 AM | #265
Quote: Originally Posted by Crystal_Mind View Post
...I've seen several people saying now that they didn't have combat focus on PTS, but I had it in every spec I tried. Did you talk to the droid twice and check your powers menu?
I spoke to the droid 20 times as I was going back and forth to compare ALL the different specs for dps and defence to find out what was missing. Ive even got screen shots to show that it wasn’t on any builds.

On a side note, I did discover that everytime you talk to the droid it gives you a million credits. So I did this and then purchased and sold back armor & gear to get my 306 setup. Took about 10 mins.
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Crystal_Mind's Avatar


Crystal_Mind
07.16.2021 , 07:55 AM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I spoke to the droid 20 times as I was going back and forth to compare ALL the different specs for dps and defence to find out what was missing. Ive even got screen shots to show that it wasn’t on any builds.

On a side note, I did discover that everytime you talk to the droid it gives you a million credits. So I did this and then purchased and sold back armor & gear to get my 306 setup. Took about 10 mins.
Bizzare. I had to dig into the powers menu to find it the first time, but I had it for both defense and focus specs (I didn't test vigi). Chalk it up to a PTS bug, I suppose.

supercometl's Avatar


supercometl
07.16.2021 , 08:38 AM | #267
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Hi all,

[...]
We know there are questions surrounding this phase of PTS and will be addressing them in a consolidated dev post later this week after we’ve reviewed the feedback that’s come in since we’ve launched PTS.

This thread will be updated with a dev post later this week.

Jackie
I just want to take a moment to appreciate that we have a form of dev post that doesn't promise the world, or even promise they will all be changed, but at the same time gives a clear message they heard our concerns... More of this please.
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk

LJ_Gibbs's Avatar


LJ_Gibbs
07.16.2021 , 08:45 AM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by supercometl View Post
I just want to take a moment to appreciate that we have a form of dev post that doesn't promise the world, or even promise they will all be changed, but at the same time gives a clear message they heard our concerns... More of this please.
They have a massive track record of "hearing" but not "listening".

I am not suggesting they listen to everything... every little and big whiners on here.

But I can guarantee you they will NOT take any of the info provided here to guide the development of the content. Never have, never will.

JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
07.16.2021 , 10:32 AM | #269 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hi everyone,

Following up on the post I made a couple days ago. We wanted to bring clarity to some of the feedback we’ve been reading. First, we would like to share our philosophy on reducing the number of defensive cooldowns available.

Over several years and updates, more and more defensive cooldowns and abilities have been added to the game. Often times this was for class balance purposes, to allow some classes to keep up with others in terms of their defensive kit. Additionally, this was done without adjusting things like Operation boss mechanics which were designed around the class kits available at the time: mainly less defensive cooldowns. The sheer quantity of defensive cooldowns in the game today makes things more difficult to balance for both PvE and PvP. It has made some PvE mechanics completely avoidable, and made the time-to-kill metric in PvP grow steadily to the point where we are approaching tedious levels.

In 7.0, we want to reduce the quantity of defensive skills overall, across all classes, making for a more balanced and enjoyable experience in both PvE and PvP content, while at the same time making the defensives that remain more impactful and fun.

What does this look like in both modes?
  • In PvP, our intent is balanced, more dynamic player encounters that move away from rotating defensive cooldowns and move more towards utilizing a broader set of skills in each class’s kit.
  • In PvE, our intent is to take into account these changes, and adjust NPC encounters as needed to compensate.
Getting a bit more specific, we also intend to give upgraded versions of abilities when being presented as a choice. Here’s one example using Blade Blitz from the current PTS:
  • Blade Blitz in the Live game:
  • 45 second cooldown
  • Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered.
Blade Blitz on PTS:
  • 35 second cooldown
  • Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Can be used while immobilized and purges movement-impairing effects when activated.
Instead of spending utility points to upgrade abilities, as in the current system, you will be presented with an already upgraded version of several abilities to choose between leading to more interesting decision making, customization, and greater choice for your kit.

In addition to defensive cooldowns, we want to streamline other abilities where it makes sense. For example, instead of dedicating an entirely separate ability and button press to a particular effect, we want to merge or combine them with others in an intuitive way. We can see this in action on the PTS with Freezing Force:
  • Freezing Force is removed from Guardians on the PTS, but a modification to Blade Storm via the new ability choice tree upgrades Blade Storm into an AoE that also slows. This offers a similar effect to the old ability, but in a more efficient way.
The intent of the new ability system, which will replace the current utility points system, is that players can make meaningful choices to accommodate their play style or situational needs. Players will be able to pick their own ability modifications and customize their skills in this manner, with all of those choices able to be saved to a Loadout. Loadouts will be able to be swapped with similar ease to the current Utility point system. While the ability choice interface and Loadout features are still in development, those experiences are core to the system and we are working hard to get them to a state where they can be shared on the PTS in a future update. We will share more details in the future on both of these features.

One of the reasons we wanted to share these class changes with our players so early is because we wanted to get your feedback as we are still in the design phase of several other classes. As stated previously, you are not playing a final product. While very rough around the edges, the earlier we can share impactful changes like this the more we can take into account your feedback as we continue building out the remaining classes and iterating on ones you’re able to try out on the PTS.

Lastly, for this phase of PTS, the Jedi Guardian was missing both their breaker (Resolute) and interrupt (Force Kick). We understand that players may be worried about what that means for 7.0. It was never our intention to completely remove these from the game. We realize this has caused confusion, so we are going to add these back for the next phase of PTS with the caveat that they may change form in the future. We are currently iterating on different ways of utilizing breaker functionality that doesn’t necessarily require an independent icon on your hotbar as well as considering where interrupts fit in with the overall class and encounter design of 7.0. Because of this, we didn’t include these in the testable ability sets on PTS.

Please keep in mind that breakers and Interrupts will remain in-game, they just might not appear in the same form as they are now.

Thank you for playing PTS and giving us your constructive feedback.
Jackie | Community Manager
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RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
07.16.2021 , 10:46 AM | #270
Happy to hear that, looking forward to the next patch readjusting for the crazy defensive cooldown ability bloat that we have at the moment when most players simply end up using the defensive cooldowns to totally ignore or fluff their dps. Reducing the number of defensive cooldowns, or simply reworking them to have a much lower effect is taking a step in the right direction for more fun gameplay.

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