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Jedi Guardian Feedback

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phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
07.14.2021 , 11:27 AM | #211
I put this in my original write up of Vigilance B back on page 19, but to highlight it here:

If there was an ability that I could do without in Vigilance, its probably Riposte. I mean, its a bread and butter thing for Defense and would strongly object to its removal for Defense Guardians. But it isn't really used at all in the Vigilance rotation so if any ability seems like a prime target for pruning, its that one. When it procs, its actually a burden to spend time to use it (even though its off the GCD). Seems to make far more sense to move Saber Throw as an iconic Jedi Knight baseline ability and make Riposte a Defense-only thing.
If you would like to hear more of my thoughts, consider joining our guilds on Satele Shan, "Shock and Jawa" of the Republic and "Full Metal Jawa" of the Empire. Thank you for reading!

DsevenO's Avatar


DsevenO
07.14.2021 , 11:28 AM | #212
Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

No, it feels nothing like a Jedi Guardian. Using Vigilance loadout A, my defensive abilities have been reduced by 2 thirds, and two of my most used abilities (bladestorm and saber throw) are just straight-up gone. My escapes (resolute and blade blitz) are also gone. I am simply an automaton, mashing the same 3 or 4 buttons repeatedly and thoughtlessly, with little to no means of defending myself.

Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

If you're talking pve, then bladestorm is missing. If you're talking pvp, ALMOST EVERYTHING IS MISSING: saber reflect, focused defense, resolute, blade blitz, freezing force, challenging call, guardian leap, guard, awe, cyclone slash, saber throw and force kick. If you'd ever taken the time to actually play a vigilance guardian, you'd know that none of these are optional in regular warzones. In ranked warzones, these abilites needed to not only be kept, but buffed. Even with the abilities on live, we're the laughing stock of ranked due to our lack of survivability.

What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

If I pull more than one pack of weak mobs, I'm dead in less than 5 seconds. My companion is dead in less than 3 seconds even if I only pull 1 pack of weak mobs. I have no escapes, no cc break, no root break, and no damage reduction abilities (aside from the always-tepid saber ward which is on a 3 minute cd).

How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Of course I'm not enjoying it. Who would enjoy a loss of abilities and a loss of combat proficiency framed as "choice"? This is an insult to everyone that has played a Guardian for the last 10 years.

If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I was too disgusted to try any of the other ability paths, as I knew I'd be getting more of the same lackluster, lowest common denominator garbage.
Go Forth and Die

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
07.14.2021 , 11:33 AM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondNemke View Post
New players have nothing to test here, since they won't be affected. Playing story content still feels the same. However, fi this goes live, it will cripple people who play endgame content, like PvP and NiM raids.
No, they will need to test the leveling up process just to make sure the UI works and the choices stick/persistent between zone changes, etc. We don't want another GSF ship component tier 4/5 deselect bug occurring with the ground game. And I'd be happy to roll a new guardian and level him up a bit to make sure the choice system works.

But, I'm glad they decided to test the "close to endgame" portion first, because it will certainly be the most disruptive to us on day 1.
If you would like to hear more of my thoughts, consider joining our guilds on Satele Shan, "Shock and Jawa" of the Republic and "Full Metal Jawa" of the Empire. Thank you for reading!

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
07.14.2021 , 11:36 AM | #214
Quote: Originally Posted by DsevenO View Post
bladestorm is missing.
It shouldn't be, even for Vigilance A. Its listed as present for both paths in the SPOILER section. You might need to talk to the droid a couple of times and check your ability window. I had the same problem with Combat Focus but eventually I got it.
If you would like to hear more of my thoughts, consider joining our guilds on Satele Shan, "Shock and Jawa" of the Republic and "Full Metal Jawa" of the Empire. Thank you for reading!

ARFett's Avatar


ARFett
07.14.2021 , 11:43 AM | #215
First of all:

I like the idea of new story content and more content coming in with 7.0

BUT

I definitely dislike the changes you are showing us.

This is no freedom of choice combining classes.

It is just dumbing down skills to a casual level that is painful.

And this guardian just does feel like...well, it feels hollow, empty and totally NOT fun to play.

Honestly:

How rewarding do you think is choosing between three skills I had before 7.0 to only have ONE of them available to me then?

This does not feel like freedom of choice.

Plus it is slashing down cooldown abilities, interrupts as well as any kind of rotation of skills.

Please - the game is already more casual than I like it.

You can barely die on story difficulty or going through story.

You can if you like play through story using like 3-4 skills and still do not die.

You want to attract casuals with story?

Fine - all for it!

But this is cutting down the players doing end content.

This is cutting down the player doing PvP, Master FP or OPS.

They want to be able to learn their rotation to "get good".

Beat the odds.

Have some harder experience than just sweeping relaxed through story.

Pressing this in 5 month from now will lose you the core and the soul of the players who stuck with you so long.

I am a founder since 2011.

Ever present and not without sub since then.

But this...might be just the last push to get me off this game.

Pure and honest truth.

JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
07.14.2021 , 11:51 AM | #216 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hi all,

Weíre going through all the feedback thatís being posted here. Thank you to everyone who has been providing constructive feedback and answering the questions listed in the feedback thread. There is a lot to read through, but we wanted to acknowledge that we are reading your posts.

One note that we are seeing is concerns of our overall lack of addressing questions in real time that have popped up. We know that this can be frustrating but at this stage of the feedback process, but we need your raw constructive criticism without us potentially changing or tainting it. This is especially important in the first few days of PTS and what we will be following for future phases of PTS. We also know that there is an ask for us to acknowledge every single thread that was created, but please understand that is not feasible in terms of keeping info consolidated and in one place with how the dev tracker functions. Know that we are reading each thread as they are updated and compiling the feedback and reviewing it with the team.

Here are common sentiments that we are seeing:
  • Concerns regarding the availability of defensive abilities.
  • PTS Jedi Guardian could be effective in story content but not endgame content.
  • Saber Throw/Saber Reflect should not be a choice.
  • The class is about survivability. The PTS Jedi Guardian does not feel like this.
  • Choices being offered as of now donít feel balanced.
  • The gear and companion being offered during this phase of PTS does not equate to the live player experience.
We know there are questions surrounding this phase of PTS and will be addressing them in a consolidated dev post later this week after weíve reviewed the feedback thatís come in since weíve launched PTS.

This thread will be updated with a dev post later this week.

Jackie
Jackie | Community Manager
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Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
07.14.2021 , 12:02 PM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Hi all,

Weíre going through all the feedback thatís being posted here. Thank you to everyone who has been providing constructive feedback and answering the questions listed in the feedback thread. There is a lot to read through, but we wanted to acknowledge that we are reading your posts.

One note that we are seeing is concerns of our overall lack of addressing questions in real time that have popped up. We know that this can be frustrating but at this stage of the feedback process, but we need your raw constructive criticism without us potentially changing or tainting it. This is especially important in the first few days of PTS and what we will be following for future phases of PTS. We also know that there is an ask for us to acknowledge every single thread that was created, but please understand that is not feasible in terms of keeping info consolidated and in one place with how the dev tracker functions. Know that we are reading each thread as they are updated and compiling the feedback and reviewing it with the team.

Here are common sentiments that we are seeing:
  • Concerns regarding the availability of defensive abilities.
  • PTS Jedi Guardian could be effective in story content but not endgame content.
  • Saber Throw/Saber Reflect should not be a choice.
  • The class is about survivability. The PTS Jedi Guardian does not feel like this.
  • Choices being offered as of now donít feel balanced.
  • The gear and companion being offered during this phase of PTS does not equate to the live player experience.
We know there are questions surrounding this phase of PTS and will be addressing them in a consolidated dev post later this week after weíve reviewed the feedback thatís come in since weíve launched PTS.

This thread will be updated with a dev post later this week.

Jackie
Thank you , Jackie .... you really are a diamond in the BioWare rough! /tip-hat

And give a quick /pep-talk to the Dev coders too btw , since while "harsh" loyal beta players like me don't really understand the need for constant drastic combat changes every few updates and are indeed somewhat skeptical & concerned about this 7.0 iteration, some of us also fully realize & appreciate how daunting of a task 'LotS' (and SWTOR as a whole) is for the Team.
Never tell me the odds! - (Fix SPACE! 4.0ur *Community*)

Beckwith's Avatar


Beckwith
07.14.2021 , 12:05 PM | #218
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
Hi all,

Weíre going through all the feedback thatís being posted here. Thank you to everyone who has been providing constructive feedback and answering the questions listed in the feedback thread. There is a lot to read through, but we wanted to acknowledge that we are reading your posts.

One note that we are seeing is concerns of our overall lack of addressing questions in real time that have popped up. We know that this can be frustrating but at this stage of the feedback process, but we need your raw constructive criticism without us potentially changing or tainting it. This is especially important in the first few days of PTS and what we will be following for future phases of PTS. We also know that there is an ask for us to acknowledge every single thread that was created, but please understand that is not feasible in terms of keeping info consolidated and in one place with how the dev tracker functions. Know that we are reading each thread as they are updated and compiling the feedback and reviewing it with the team.

Here are common sentiments that we are seeing:
  • Concerns regarding the availability of defensive abilities.
  • PTS Jedi Guardian could be effective in story content but not endgame content.
  • Saber Throw/Saber Reflect should not be a choice.
  • The class is about survivability. The PTS Jedi Guardian does not feel like this.
  • Choices being offered as of now donít feel balanced.
  • The gear and companion being offered during this phase of PTS does not equate to the live player experience.
We know there are questions surrounding this phase of PTS and will be addressing them in a consolidated dev post later this week after weíve reviewed the feedback thatís come in since weíve launched PTS.

This thread will be updated with a dev post later this week.

Jackie
No offense, but its like you guys have not been playing your own game since launch. Since Launch, Guardians have always been about survivability. I main a Guardian Tank and been tanking HM and NIM Content since the game launched. You MAY be able to tank HM content, but there is no way in heck you can tank NIM content with these changes, a guardian simply won't survive.
http://www.swtor.com/r/RWqMLC
RHG is Recruiting - www.swtorrhg.com
Paboe - Sage Healer, Klue - Guardian Tank, Kariana - Shadow Tank, Kleu - Vanguard Tank, Leuk - Commando Gunnery, Jintoss - Gunslinger Sharpshooter

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
07.14.2021 , 12:11 PM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
  • Concerns regarding the availability of defensive abilities.
Yes, I share those concerns. Question for devs: Is this being motivated by a Time-To-Kill in pvp thing? As in, you do not intend for dps Guardians to survive so long?
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
  • PTS Jedi Guardian could be effective in story content but not endgame content.
Yes, I share that concern, but to be fair to the developers I have not tried to do Veteran Mode Spirit of Vengeance on PTS yet, nor have I tried to queue for a WZ.
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
  • Saber Throw/Saber Reflect should not be a choice.
Yes, I share that concern. I think the choice between mobility, DCD, and reflect is too difficult of a choice relative to what I perceive the Guardian is supposed to be.
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
  • The class is about survivability. The PTS Jedi Guardian does not feel like this.
Yes, and this of course relates to the point above.
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
  • Choices being offered as of now donít feel balanced.
As above, but this is particularly painful when we don't know if the new "abilities" from the path A/B loadout are actually working, since they don't show up anywhere (EDIT: looks like you ammended the original post with most of the missing descriptions except Force Skewer for Vigi B, thanks JackieKo!). In other words, I think people would be more willing to excuse balance issues if they knew how passive such-and-such was supposed to work but merely broken. The devs need to provide descriptions of every new ability out there, especially if its a passive and StarParse won't work on the PTS combat logs yet. And you need to be frank and answer this yes/no question: Are utilities/combat proficiencies, as we know them today, going away because they are being baked into passives?
Quote: Originally Posted by JackieKo View Post
  • The gear and companion being offered during this phase of PTS does not equate to the live player experience.
Yes, but this is an easy fix: offer 306 mods direct for sale and Commander's Compendia. Also, when abilities are missing, like Force Clarity or Awe, its hard to test certain sets like Descent of the Fearless or Force Bound.

Also, please allow us to train Speeder Piloting 5 or make sure its working.
If you would like to hear more of my thoughts, consider joining our guilds on Satele Shan, "Shock and Jawa" of the Republic and "Full Metal Jawa" of the Empire. Thank you for reading!

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
07.14.2021 , 12:14 PM | #220
Glad to know that the devs are actively compiling feedback, and even the simple act of listing out common themes will make a lot of people feel seen and heard.

Thanks for the acknowledgement and I'm looking forward to more testing!