we expect what was talked about in the livestream/stream notes. So this preset thing is not going over well. Also, what does that first bullet point mean? "This is super high level and not a deep dive." I feel like I'm missing something important in understanding that.

I think maybe they're trying to ask, "What are the aspects of the class ability game mechanics that make this class feel like this class."

So if you want to refresh a class, which might mean trimming a few abilities, or maybe just changing a few abilities, it's important to identify which abilities are lacking and might be good to change, vs which ones work really well and contribute to the "feel" of the playstyle that players like.

On Defense A, my base rotation didn't feel that much different, so that suggests that they've correctly identified sort of the baseline abilities that everyone uses all the time.

The comments trend toward players thinking that in both DPS and Tank roles defensive cooldowns are really central to how they regard the feel of Guardian play. The loss of them appears to be a BIG DEAL.

I'm not clear on if the Devs are already on board with this, and want to upgrade the more spammy DCDs, if they think that there are too many DCDs especially for DPS in PvP and they're looking to trim DCDs as a matter of class balance, or if they just figured that they left strongest long CD defensives in and are just genuinely surprised that people who play guardians are that attached to the feel of having a big variety of DCDs.

Part of the value in this sort of thing is that the Devs have a professional game design sense of what's important in the sense of: does the math check out for Ops groups still being able to clear NiM content. However there's also a very subjective player view of, "why do you love to play this class?"

Things that players love might not always be things that are truly important from a workable game mechanics standpoint. If so, it's valuable for the Devs to know this so that they can change things, even if it might not be optimal on a spreadsheet. If the play experience feels good, it might be worth dealing with some clunky code on the back end, but before going to all that trouble, you want to know what mechanics really drive the feel of the class.

Their TLDR is: We're gonna change stuff to address design issues x, y, and z. Since we're going to do that, we'd like to know which abilities need to go under the surgeons knife. We have our own list of what's too weak, too strong, redundant and uninspiring, and we'd like to see your list players, because if there's something that would break your hearts to see butchered, we'll see if it would work to change something else instead. Just keep in mind that we are changing things to address x, y, and z, that's not open for discussion, but we'll listen to opinions on how to address x, y, and z.

Or at least that's my best guess on what they're after.

It would have helped a bit if they had told us what their list of x, y, and z is.

Hi all,

So i tested the guardian for the Defense paths only (A and B).

So my feedback is for defense only, I always play as Immortal warrior so it feels like home.

I did notice that some skills where missing, but i did not felt it so bad as explained here from most players.

Blade Blitz missing for me its meh. I use it only for mobility, so as a tank only guy (pvp/pve) I see this skill just for fleeing or when jet-pack is on cooldown.

Force Kick I use it a lot, but we also have force push and hilt bash that could also be used for interrupts.

Resolute on the other hand i don't really know how am I going to break from stuns and all. But i am assume some extra skills/passive will resolve this.

Dispatch also is missing, but if I have any other attack skill to add to the rotation i'm happy.

Looking forward to the next phase...

I think the initial post has some errors, Jackie can you please check the initial post?

For ex:

Through Peace - Reduces Enure’s Cooldown.

But on defense A:

Saber Reflect is present not Enure, but Through Peace is.

Something is not making sense here, that is because Through Peace does not reduce Enure's it reduces Focused Defense cooldown. (at least in the PTS in-game)

I think the communication needs to be a bit better, this also happened in the 6.0 PTS.

SWTOR players got a lot of weird stuff over the year so I do understand the fear and some of the anger.

So please try to put this more clear, specially on things like skills or gear...

I personally think we are still on an alpha not in the last week of a beta test. ("This is super high level and not a deep dive")

We all love this game, I think we should try to help them out not scold them. (them = swtor team)

Making videos about how you fell angry about this changes doesn't help with the process.

Maybe trying to explain why something doesn't feel right will be more helpful.

We all know where anger leads us...

The sweet dark-side we should use in-game, not on real life.

Seriously, that is not what I expected.

We were told that advanced classes will be separated from class stories. I imagined something like 'create Sith Warrior and run through its class story, but have an ability to switch combat style and be a Sith Sorcerer still doing SW storyline'. That sounds really pretty cool and I was very excited... But now I see an absolute different thing, I see just Sith Warrior stripped down of his abilities and not have anything in return.

This is absolute disaster. I love SWTOR from 2011, havent played last year but keep my sub active. This changes feels like a spit in the face.

Hi all,

So i tested the guardian for the Defense paths only (A and B).

So my feedback is for defense only, I always play as Immortal warrior so it feels like home.

I did notice that some skills where missing, but i did not felt it so bad as explained here from most players.

 

Blade Blitz missing for me its meh. I use it only for mobility, so as a tank only guy (pvp/pve) I see this skill just for fleeing or when jet-pack is on cooldown.

Force Kick I use it a lot, but we also have force push and hilt bash that could also be used for interrupts.

Resolute on the other hand i don't really know how am I going to break from stuns and all. But i am assume some extra skills/passive will resolve this.

Dispatch also is missing, but if I have any other attack skill to add to the rotation i'm happy.

Looking forward to the next phase...

 

I think the initial post has some errors, Jackie can you please check the initial post?

For ex:

Through Peace - Reduces Enure’s Cooldown.

 

But on defense A:

Saber Reflect is present not Enure, but Through Peace is.

Something is not making sense here, that is because Through Peace does not reduce Enure's it reduces Focused Defense cooldown. (at least in the PTS in-game)

 

I think the communication needs to be a bit better, this also happened in the 6.0 PTS.

SWTOR players got a lot of weird stuff over the year so I do understand the fear and some of the anger.

So please try to put this more clear, specially on things like skills or gear...

 

I personally think we are still on an alpha not in the last week of a beta test. ("This is super high level and not a deep dive")

We all love this game, I think we should try to help them out not scold them. (them = swtor team)

Making videos about how you fell angry about this changes doesn't help with the process.

Maybe trying to explain why something doesn't feel right will be more helpful.

 

We all know where anger leads us...

The sweet dark-side we should use in-game, not on real life.

If you only use mad dash for running away or mobility ur using it wrong

u cant interupt bosses like izax with force push or hilt bash

If you only use mad dash for running away or mobility ur using it wrong

Your probably right, but for me personally its what i do. Can you tell me how do you use it?

u cant interupt bosses like izax with force push or hilt bash

You are totally right, but if force push and/or hilt bash could interrupt like Force Kick I would not miss it.

Your probably right, but for me personally its what i do. Can you tell me how do you use it?

 

 

You are totally right, but if force push and/or hilt bash could interrupt like Force Kick I would not miss it.

sure you wont miss it but on fights like izax juggs can interupt 3 times in a row (interupt) force charge and then with the proper utility your interupt resets and you do 3.

mad dash has 100% defense chance while dashing meaning u can cheese 1 shot mechanics like brontes orbs before 15 stacks

sure you wont miss it but on fights like izax juggs can interupt 3 times in a row (interupt) force charge and then with the proper utility your interupt resets and you do 3.

 

mad dash has 100% defense chance while dashing meaning u can cheese 1 shot mechanics like brontes orbs before 15 stacks

Well this is still early testing, so I think its too early to assume they will not make other skills stronger to balance that.

If Saber Reflect/Enure, Focused Defense and Saber Ward got stronger do you really need Blade Blitz/Mad Dash for something other than mobility?

Also, I am not 100% sure if it was defense A or B, but i recall something giving 100% defense for the initial 2 seconds for some of this defensive skills. I could be wrong...

Well this is still early testing, so I think its too early to assume they will not make other skills stronger to balance that.

 

If Saber Reflect/Enure, Focused Defense and Saber Ward got stronger do you really need Blade Blitz/Mad Dash for something other than mobility?

 

Also, I am not 100% sure if it was defense A or B, but i recall something giving 100% defense for the initial 2 seconds for some of this defensive skills. I could be wrong...

enure doesnt give you any dr or defense chance, saber reflect only works on single target attacks so they arent realy comparable to mad dash, nothing in your dcd list holds a candle to mad dash

Not to mention the cooldown of mad dash is 45 seconds compared to 1min for enure and saber reflect

Hello everyone, PTS is now live. Please read all the stickied threads for all of the info surrounding this phase of PTS.

 

Thank you!

Hi Jackie,

I wasn’t sure which thread to post this to ask about some of the changes. So apologies that I’ve made a similar post else where.

I’m wondering if the ability pruning is to help with desync or so each combat class has the same amount of load abilities to prevent the UI breaking or causing bugs when people switch load outs or combat styles

It would help if we understood the devs reason for pruning abilities. Then people testing could provide better feed back in the right context. So far I think the lack of reasoning is causing most of the anguish players are having.

My personal concern is the devs are trying to fix perfomance and are targeting the wrong sort of abilities. For instance if the reason is to reduce desync and improve perfomance, then why prune DCD/interrupt abilities instead of abilities that cause the desync, like speed/mobility abilities or mez/stun abilities.

If it’s for another reason like all classes having the same number of abilities, then there will be some concern from players like snipers, etc, who have a lot more abilities than say and Assassin who has the least amount of abilities (Probably not the best example as ones tech and ones force)

At the moment I feel we are in the dark too much to understand their changes and it may skew our feedback. I know it’s certainly causing a lot of player anxiety and drama. So I’m reserving my judgment till we get some more info or another iteration of the PTS.

But I would really appreciate it if Bioware can provide more info and answer some of the questions I’ve posed because I think it would help with the sort of feed back we give when testing. Knowing what their goal is with the changes will affect how people provide that feed back.

enure doesnt give you any dr or defense chance, saber reflect only works on single target attacks so they arent realy comparable to mad dash, nothing in your dcd list holds a candle to mad dash

 

Not to mention the cooldown of mad dash is 45 seconds compared to 1min for enure and saber reflect

You are totally right, and I do think this kind of feedback you are giving is what they want and are searching for.

If they understand why people think mad dash is crucial, they could re-add the skill and/or update other defense skills to work better in regard to what you are explaining here.

Hope other player/testers can explain things like you.

So thank you very much ebinhovdloca.

Hi all,

So i tested the guardian for the Defense paths only (A and B).

So my feedback is for defense only, I always play as Immortal warrior so it feels like home.

I did notice that some skills where missing, but i did not felt it so bad as explained here from most players.

 

Blade Blitz missing for me its meh. I use it only for mobility, so as a tank only guy (pvp/pve) I see this skill just for fleeing or when jet-pack is on cooldown.

Force Kick I use it a lot, but we also have force push and hilt bash that could also be used for interrupts.

Resolute on the other hand i don't really know how am I going to break from stuns and all. But i am assume some extra skills/passive will resolve this.

Dispatch also is missing, but if I have any other attack skill to add to the rotation i'm happy.

Looking forward to the next phase...

 

I think the initial post has some errors, Jackie can you please check the initial post?

For ex:

Through Peace - Reduces Enure’s Cooldown.

 

But on defense A:

Saber Reflect is present not Enure, but Through Peace is.

Something is not making sense here, that is because Through Peace does not reduce Enure's it reduces Focused Defense cooldown. (at least in the PTS in-game)

 

I think the communication needs to be a bit better, this also happened in the 6.0 PTS.

SWTOR players got a lot of weird stuff over the year so I do understand the fear and some of the anger.

So please try to put this more clear, specially on things like skills or gear...

 

I personally think we are still on an alpha not in the last week of a beta test. ("This is super high level and not a deep dive")

We all love this game, I think we should try to help them out not scold them. (them = swtor team)

Making videos about how you fell angry about this changes doesn't help with the process.

Maybe trying to explain why something doesn't feel right will be more helpful.

 

We all know where anger leads us...

The sweet dark-side we should use in-game, not on real life.

Hey dude

just a headsup Blade Blitz is a great DCD as well since it increases your defense chance by 100% while dashing, FYI.

Hey dude

 

just a headsup Blade Blitz is a great DCD as well since it increases your defense chance by 100% while dashing, FYI.

I know, but they can update any other skill to balance this.

By reducing DCD and/or increasing effectiveness for other defense skills.

As tank if you could get a 100% defense change + a DCD reduction on any other skill would you mind not having the Blade Blitz?

I do like this skill don't get me wrong.

Its just feels that everybody is super pissed in an very initial PTS.

Maybe we should wait and see what you get if you don't have Blade Blitz.

And then if what we get in return sucks either they gave it back or improve the new thing.

I know, but they can update any other skill to balance this.

By reducing DCD and/or increasing effectiveness for other defense skills.

 

As tank if you could get a 100% defense change + a DCD reduction on any other skill would you mind not having the Blade Blitz?

 

I do like this skill don't get me wrong.

Its just feels that everybody is super pissed in an very initial PTS.

Maybe we should wait and see what you get if you don't have Blade Blitz.

And then if what we get in return sucks either they gave it back or improve the new thing.

why do you think player base gets frustrated right from the drop? see what we get? classes we love to play suddenly nerfed to hell.

why do you think player base gets frustrated right from the drop? see what we get? classes we love to play suddenly nerfed to hell.

I don't get why you say this, when we don't even know what we are going to get.

And I know they have done some weird stuff over the years and I was not playing during that time, maybe that's why I'm more open to this changes.

But the same thing happened in the 6.0 PTS with the loot, did you not like what they did? Even Destiny 2 Has the same system.

I'm not saying to sugar coat what you think is wrong, just be constructive and objective.

A simple "I don't think a can live without skill X when playing on Discipline Y because of motive Z1,Z2,Z3."

Also there are people that are working on the game that are going to read all of this pages and feel bad about something they are working and we didn't even see it completely yet...

I don't get why you say this, when we don't even know what we are going to get.

 

And I know they have done some weird stuff over the years and I was not playing during that time, maybe that's why I'm more open to this changes.

But the same thing happened in the 6.0 PTS with the loot, did you not like what they did? Even Destiny 2 Has the same system.

 

I'm not saying to sugar coat what you think is wrong, just be constructive and objective.

A simple "I don't think a can live without skill X when playing on Discipline Y because of motive Z1,Z2,Z3."

 

Also there are people that are working on the game that are going to read all of this pages and feel bad about something they are working and we didn't even see it completely yet...

it doesnt matter if they dont go ahead with this, which i doubt they wont this has been in the works for a long time, its amazing that the devs wasted time and resources into this system and do ability pruning, which no active player wanted

it doesnt matter if they dont go ahead with this, which i doubt they wont this has been in the works for a long time, its amazing that the devs wasted time and resources into this system and do ability pruning, which no active player wanted

We both know its not just ability pruning.

But you are right, and you did a good explanation, I personally will wait for next phase to see how this goes.

And hey if on the next PTS skill/optional skills still suck I will be sharing my opinion here...

We both know its not just ability pruning.

But you are right, and you did a good explanation, I personally will wait for next phase to see how this goes.

And hey if on the next PTS skill/optional skills still suck I will be sharing my opinion here...

comparing Live to PTS i lost over 10 abilities while gaining some passives, how is that not ability pruning?

the "choice" we are given is beetween abilities when it should be beetween passives

~Level 20 - Choose one passive (applies to Focused Burst)

[A] Zenith - Increases critical chance after using Focused Burst

Focusing Strike - Focused Burst deals 15% more damage.

Unstable Focus - Focused Burst now hits in AoE.

this for example is good, making us choose beetween abilities instead of passives is bad

Hello everyone, PTS is now live. Please read all the stickied threads for all of the info surrounding this phase of PTS.

 

Thank you!

Hello, will we be getting a detailed explanation of Vigilance and Defense the same as Focus? I see the names of the new passives and utilities but I don't really have an idea of what they do.

comparing Live to PTS i lost over 10 abilities while gaining some passives, how is that not ability pruning?

 

the "choice" we are given is beetween abilities when it should be beetween passives

 

~Level 20 - Choose one passive (applies to Focused Burst)

[A] Zenith - Increases critical chance after using Focused Burst

Focusing Strike - Focused Burst deals 15% more damage.

Unstable Focus - Focused Burst now hits in AoE.

 

this for example is good, making us choose beetween abilities instead of passives is bad

Did I say its not ability pruning?

I just said they were not just doing that, they probably did a lot of work on other things.

I also think that's a good example...

Hi all,

So i tested the guardian for the Defense paths only (A and B).

So my feedback is for defense only, I always play as Immortal warrior so it feels like home.

I did notice that some skills where missing, but i did not felt it so bad as explained here from most players.

 

Blade Blitz missing for me its meh. I use it only for mobility, so as a tank only guy (pvp/pve) I see this skill just for fleeing or when jet-pack is on cooldown.

Force Kick I use it a lot, but we also have force push and hilt bash that could also be used for interrupts.

Resolute on the other hand i don't really know how am I going to break from stuns and all. But i am assume some extra skills/passive will resolve this.

Dispatch also is missing, but if I have any other attack skill to add to the rotation i'm happy.

Looking forward to the next phase...

 

I think the initial post has some errors, Jackie can you please check the initial post?

For ex:

Through Peace - Reduces Enure’s Cooldown.

 

But on defense A:

Saber Reflect is present not Enure, but Through Peace is.

Something is not making sense here, that is because Through Peace does not reduce Enure's it reduces Focused Defense cooldown. (at least in the PTS in-game)

 

I think the communication needs to be a bit better, this also happened in the 6.0 PTS.

SWTOR players got a lot of weird stuff over the year so I do understand the fear and some of the anger.

So please try to put this more clear, specially on things like skills or gear...

 

I personally think we are still on an alpha not in the last week of a beta test. ("This is super high level and not a deep dive")

We all love this game, I think we should try to help them out not scold them. (them = swtor team)

Making videos about how you fell angry about this changes doesn't help with the process.

Maybe trying to explain why something doesn't feel right will be more helpful.

 

We all know where anger leads us...

The sweet dark-side we should use in-game, not on real life.

Blade Blitz is one of the most useful DCDs in the game lol. This whole update is garbage, forcing us to choose between 3 of the most important guardian DCDs is pointless. We need all of them for certain encounters.

Also, blade blitz is one of the most iconic abilities for guardian. You can't simply remove saber throw and blade blitz and expect people not to complain.

Blade Blitz is one of the most useful DCDs in the game lol. This whole update is garbage, forcing us to choose between 3 of the most important guardian DCDs is pointless. We need all of them for certain encounters.

 

Also, blade blitz is one of the most iconic abilities for guardian. You can't simply remove saber throw and blade blitz and expect people not to complain.

Someone became productive.

Hope you also read the rest of the posts...

What disciple do you normally play as in guardian/warrior?

My experience in guardian/warrior is only on tank (immortal), so maybe that is why I don't fell more hurt about not having Blade Blitz/Mad Dash.

For me its a situational thing in PVE.

I'm not just going to move the around just for 100% defense change when i have other DCDs I can manage.

Unless I don't have any other option or its a very specific situation that I can use it to save the other DCDs. (someone pointed out examples of this already here)

On PVP I do use it a lot, but we do have a lot of DCDs so not seeing a problem here.

Assuming the balancing will make the others DCDs stronger (less CD and/or more effective).

Saber throw on the other hand makes managing focus a lot harder, but is manageable.

And I do fell a lack of combat skills but this is not an update, this is the first phase of PTS.

We don't know what we are going to get yet, and things can still change.

Someone became productive.

Hope you also read the rest of the posts...

 

What disciple do you normally play as in guardian/warrior?

 

My experience in guardian/warrior is only on tank (immortal), so maybe that is why I don't fell more hurt about not having Blade Blitz/Mad Dash.

 

For me its a situational thing in PVE.

I'm not just going to move the around just for 100% defense change when i have other DCDs I can manage.

Unless I don't have any other option or its a very specific situation that I can use it to save the other DCDs. (someone pointed out examples of this already here)

On PVP I do use it a lot, but we do have a lot of DCDs so not seeing a problem here.

Assuming the balancing will make the others DCDs stronger (less CD and/or more effective).

 

Saber throw on the other hand makes managing focus a lot harder, but is manageable.

And I do fell a lack of combat skills but this is not an update, this is the first phase of PTS.

 

We don't know what we are going to get yet, and things can still change.

Blade blitz is a 100% avoidance DCD. Any Guardian/Jugg tank that does NiM content makes very extensive use of it as exactly that: a defensive cooldown that completely negates damage. Hell, the most useful setup for tanking Terror From Beyond is the dashing blademaster as it gives you more uses of one of your two ways of surviving slams (and enraged slams in particular) while basically all the other defensive armour sets don't do squat to help you stay alive. Unless the cooldown on saber reflect becomes something hilariously short (which would be a spectacularly bad idea)

this kind of has a huge negative impact on guardian tanks doing any NiM content and even some HM content.