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Class Changes in 6.1 - Feedback


EricMusco

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Dear Developers,

1. Since the launch of 6.0 Sorcerer healers have been seen as very undesirable in the raiding community. I am a sorcerer and mercenary healer main. Ive healer as a sorc and merc since the launch of the game. 6.0 is the first expansion where I have been turned down in raid teams solely based on one thing: because I want to play on a sorc healer.

 

2. Sorcerer healers have not changed at all. The tacticals that sorc healers can use are not fun or different. They don’t change the way sorc healers play, or make them exciting. In fact, the tacticals available to sorc healers are talked about as jokes frequently. They are so un original/unexciting/ineffective that the raiding community is laughing at them and that makes me sad because I really enjoyed playing sorc, but now mercenary and operative healers are much more exciting/new/good to play.

 

Could you breath some life into sorcs healers? Can we get a tactical change that makes sorcs heals new and exciting to play?

 

Wonderful job on all of the other classes/specs! Tacticals have made so many classes/specs so much fun to play, please keep it up, and please consider doing something to sorc healers to make them fun and exciting like all of the other specs in the game.

 

Sending support and happy vibes your way Developers,

 

Xxthor

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Oh well, fellow Sorcs. We had a good run while it lasted (all 3 months). Back to middle-of-the-pack PVE DPS so that PVP can be a little more balanced. Honestly, say what you will, but aside from Stormwatch I would say that the sorc was right where it should have been. Bring SW down a little, and viola, perfectly balanced in my opinion. It really sucks that this is going to further reinforce the already-true idea that Lightning and, moreover, SW is the only spec/tac worth using for a sorc DPS, especially in PVE. All the while, this doesn't make any of the other set bonuses worth taking for any reason. This just nerfs the BIS Set for DPS sorcs, and it remains BIS, thus it's just a straight nerf.

 

The thing that really irks me about this is that I feel the sorc is where it should have been. Snipers are still parsing higher in Vir than sorcs using SW; moreover half of their rotation consists of Lethal Shot, but the sorc must have been hitting harder in PVP, so here comes the nerf bat. It is really disheartening to just know that anytime the sorc steps a little above mediocrity, about 3 months goes by before they are smacked right back into the middle-of-the-road. Last time this happened was 3.0 with the (Admittedly ridiculous) Force Storm spam, now this.

 

It is really frustrating that I've been a sorc player for a little over 7 years, and I am constantly hardcapped in my PVE content (DPS-wise) because of the performance in PVP. I thought that was one such discrepancy that the Tactical/ Set Bonus Choices were meant to solve; to make it easier to balance each PVP and PVE on their own terms without affecting the other in overt, game-changing ways.

 

Thanks for anyone that managed to make it to the end of my whining.

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Dear Developers,

6.0 is the first expansion where I have been turned down in raid teams solely based on one thing: because I want to play on a sorc healer. In fact, the tacticals available to sorc healers are talked about as jokes frequently.

 

Same. Our tacticals are so useless it hurts.

Also while sorcs are underperforming and mercs are overperforming, who gets nerfed? Sorc healer.

 

Please Bioware: Sorc healer needs better tacticals!

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Literally none of these changes address any of the balance concerns of 6.0. Who the hell is working on the combat team?

 

Have they ever played pvp?

 

 

Doubtful , since typically Devs (coders) rarely have time to actually play the game their coding. And certainly not enough actual PVP to get a true feel from-the-battleground.

 

In BioWare's defense, however, they are busy af with such a small crew nowadays and i'm guessing their job must be practically impossible since they have to "balance" things not only for pvp but also for PVE.

 

My hunch is their primary source of "what we need to change" is the coveted metrics. :cool:

 

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I think it is time to separate pve and pvp abilities from the characters. .

 

They never should've combined them in the first place imo.

 

Bring back pvp 'expertise' . Most players are still constantly "swapping gear sets" (and tacticals) now anyways. :D

 

-----

Devs please read. This is the direction you should take. Thanks Hoppin..

Yeap this is very important post from Hoppin, .

 

QFE x 3 , Hoppin's post is def. legit feedback: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9813759#post9813759

Edited by Nee-Elder
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Sadness is now arguably the worst spec for Solo Ranked.

 

Okay, nerf GS but give alternative, i hate this set because I must use FS on cd, it's one of the best mobility skills and with this set i can't it use when i need this ability, or do all sets on other classes with inconvenient sets, like buff to sniper only after roll, buff to opers only after roll, not just like now Established Foothold, almost classes must do nothing for good DMG, but sorcs must use mobile ability for damage? Why are you kidding us? WE must use some stupid buffs like this and we are not even close to top damage dealers.

Agreed.

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but the sorc must have been hitting harder in PVP, so here comes the nerf bat.

 

No. Lightning sorc is, at best, the third best class in pvp right now. Deception sins and concealment ops are far, far superior, which is why this nerf makes absolutely no sense considering those two classes aren't getting any nerfs.

 

Several people have pointed out that these changes likely reflect purely pve balancing concerns, which is absurd to me, but there you have it.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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I think is time to separate pvp and pve gear, when pvp gear was removed the idea was to have one set for everything, now we have dozens of them. I know it's impossible to get back expertise but is not impossible lock the sets like it was done with the old ones (lock to be used between lvl 70 to 74). Why not to lock the sets made for pve to be use only in pve and the ones for pvp in pvp.

Most of the unbalance ppl are complaining are generate by sets of gear created to be use in pve environment, while working fine in pve, they're broken when used in pvp. This would not solve everything but I think it would to make the classes I bit more even. It would be ideal to make GOOD exclusive set for pvp, not like the bad ones we have now.

Also make those useless 4 pieces set into 3 to make them able to be combined between them.

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No. Lightning sorc is, at best, the third best class in pvp right now. Deception sins and concealment ops are far, far superior, which is why this nerf makes absolutely no sense considering those two classes aren't getting any nerfs.

 

Several people have pointed out that these changes likely reflect purely pve balancing concerns, which is absurd to me, but there you have it.

 

From PvE it also makes no sense, like at all: It's facts that madness is parsing less (given skill and equal gear) to IO and Virulence as pointed out. As for cleave damage, look at Nim Grobthok

 

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/grobthok/8/MM/dps/all/all/all/live/0/

 

If the gold standard for cleave is vengeance jugg any rdps cleave is just an afterthought period in PVE.

 

Sure I agree that extended polarity shift on lightning with elemental convection tactical and repeated chain lightning is aids in PvP, but that is just it...nerf elemental convection tactical and not the overall Sorc set bonus which is needed right now for BOTH sorc specs to compete with other rdps classes in THEIR respective categories (sustained rdps and burst rdps). Otherwise the dps gap between any sorc dps and the other rdps specs (sniper and merc) will become even greater.

Alternatively if even sorc dps is overperforming than other dps is overperforming even more, and for that they should then rebalance ALL classes at once and not cherry pick or do it patch per patch.

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Sure I agree that extended polarity shift on lightning with elemental convection tactical and repeated chain lightning is aids in PvP, but that is just it...nerf elemental convection tactical and not the overall Sorc set bonus

 

In regs I'm sure it's great. In solo ranked, elemental convection is a situational tactical. It's very good if the other team has 3 or more melee in a tank, heal, or tank/heal game. In most other situations, stormwatch and eyrin's haste are far superior. Every decent ranked sorc can confirm this.

 

Alternatively if even sorc dps is overperforming than other dps is overperforming even more, and for that they should then rebalance ALL classes at once and not cherry pick or do it patch per patch.

 

Furthermore, they didn't even add a dev note to the gathering storm changes to explain them.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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No. Lightning sorc is, at best, the third best class in pvp right now. Deception sins and concealment ops are far, far superior, which is why this nerf makes absolutely no sense considering those two classes aren't getting any nerfs.

 

Several people have pointed out that these changes likely reflect purely pve balancing concerns, which is absurd to me, but there you have it.

 

That's so bizarre. If we operate under the assumption that this is a PVE nerf only, that means that BW thinks Sorcs are doing too much DPS in a raid setting. But they are by no means the top class. All this is going to do is shift the DPS players off of Sorc as a viable DPS onto Sniper, IO Merc, Etc. That doesn't solve any issues, just spites Sorc players that were happy having a class that performed at, or, a little-below-par of the other two ranged classes.

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I think is time to separate pvp and pve gear, when pvp gear was removed the idea was to have one set for everything, now we have dozens of them. I know it's impossible to get back expertise but is not impossible lock the sets like it was done with the old ones (lock to be used between lvl 70 to 74). Why not to lock the sets made for pve to be use only in pve and the ones for pvp in pvp.

Most of the unbalance ppl are complaining are generate by sets of gear created to be use in pve environment, while working fine in pve, they're broken when used in pvp. This would not solve everything but I think it would to make the classes I bit more even. It would be ideal to make GOOD exclusive set for pvp, not like the bad ones we have now.

Also make those useless 4 pieces set into 3 to make them able to be combined between them.

 

None of the changes are PvP oriented. PvPers didn't want to see any of these changes except the Firefall nerf. The PvP section has its own section describing what changes we want to see. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=974967

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To summarize the PVP community's concerns:

- where are deception assassins on this list? death knell is overperforming ludicrously in pvp.

- you nerfed the wrong tactical for concealment operatives. volatile strike is the one that's broken (game breaking burst every 15 seconds; give the autocrit a cooldown or something.)

- why did you nerf enduring bastion? the problem with lightning is damage not survivability. after neutering dark heal and unnatural preservation (heal scaling AND we can't take the reduced CD util in ranked anymore) with 6.0 this feels unnecessary.

- nerf the duration of buffed polarity shift all you like (as I mentioned, the problem is damage) but please don't tighten the window to use it. gathering storm is gimmicky enough as it is and very often results in wasting a crucial survivability tool in service of damage. if there were any alternative set bonus for sorc dps it would be one thing, but as it stands...

 

let me know how I did.

Dear Devs,

This post is telling you the only truth.

Love,

Pissed Off Lightning Sorcerer

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That's so bizarre. If we operate under the assumption that this is a PVE nerf only, that means that BW thinks Sorcs are doing too much DPS in a raid setting. But they are by no means the top class. All this is going to do is shift the DPS players off of Sorc as a viable DPS onto Sniper, IO Merc, Etc. That doesn't solve any issues, just spites Sorc players that were happy having a class that performed at, or, a little-below-par of the other two ranged classes.

 

Exactly. That's why I've said I think pve balancing in general makes very little sense to me. As long as everything is viable, who cares?

 

I think the reality is that Bioware still has archaic thresholds that they want hit, and lightning was overperforming considering it's a 'ranged burst" class, and they want it to be bottom of the barrel in pve. On the other hand, this nerfs madness too, so who knows what the hell they're thinking.

 

Maybe if they actually explained their reasoning like they did for the other changes we wouldn't have to speculate.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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Hey everyone,

 

The PTS is now live for everyone to check out these Class changes!

 

If you are testing only the list you posted than there is no need to download pts it is far from a real class balance this game needs. This stupid changes you propose show how bad BW combat team is as always masterpiece of BS. This game needs some real game developers not clowns. You had 3 months to think and get feedback about initial disaster but as always you still end up with big disappointment. Do you even think before you make any changes? How stupid can you be to ignore all the real class balance problems? The changes you are suggesting is utter BS and no where near even getting close to solve the stupid things you added and after seeing you still think they are ok shows you guys are really totally useless.

 

Also Musco warmonger utility is still bugged and you guys ignoring all bug reports about it, how long are you clowns act like we are stupid and will believe it is fixed when you sayi it is fixed? And i didnt see anything about warmonger utility fix ,n bug fixes and clearly it would be good if you put that on pts since your developer team is so bad cant even test a very simple bug fix.

Edited by omeru
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Hey folks,

 

In addition to the Alderaan Stronghold and story update in 6.1, there are also a host of class changes coming. Below you will find a list of the Class changes you will find in our next PTS build that are planned for 6.1 later this week. The list includes changes to classes and any of their items as well. Dev notes will be in italics below for each change to give some context.

 

Dev note: The healing changes below are part of ongoing balance changes to bring healers to their intended targets. Expect more healer changes and additional targeted class changes in a future update.

 

Empire

Inquisitor

Sorcerer

  • Enduring Bastion (after Force Barrier) now absorbs roughly 18% less damage
  • Update to the Gathering Force 6pc set bonus: Using Force Speed now reduces the active cooldown of Polarity Shift by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds). The duration of Polarity Shift is now increased by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds) and requires Polarity Shift to be used while Force Speed is active.

Corruption

  • Sustaining Darkness now heals for roughly 12% more

-

Powertech

  • Reduced Meteor Brawler Firefall damage by 25%
    • Dev note: Meteor Brawler’s Firefall affect was doing more burst damage than intended overall and so it is being reduced.

    [*]Fixed an issue where Veteran Ranger set bonus was not getting a benefit from Power Loaders

    [*]Update to the Veteran Ranger 6pc set bonus: Each Shoulder Cannon rocket has a 75% chance to trigger an additional rocket. When Shoulder Cannon is put on cooldown, it applies Autocannon to you for 60 seconds, firing a rocket at your current target whenever you deal damage. This additional rocket can fire once every 10 seconds.

    • Dev note: The Veteran Ranger set was intended to be the more sustain-focused set for Advanced Prototype discipline, and we realized it was underperforming in that regard. We have slightly modified its functionality to improve its effectiveness and give more consistent damage.

Advanced Prototype

  • Energy and Kinetic damage buff from High Energy Gas Cylinder increased to 5% (up from 3%)
  • Power Bracer damage buff increased to 10% (up from 5%)
  • Blood Tracker damage buff increased to 5% (up from 3%)
    • Dev note: Advanced Prototype was underperforming in DPS output, so we slightly increased their passive damage bonuses in the above three changes.

    [*]Powerlode tactical now increases Energy Burst’s crit chance by 100%

    • Dev note: We noticed this tactical wasn’t getting a lot of use and was extremely situational, so we’ve added an auto-crit aspect to it to solidify it as the burst tactical choice for Advanced Prototype players.

-

Operative

Concealment

  • Acid Lash tactical now increases Acid Blade damage by 60% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Concealment Operatives with the Acid Lash tactical are doing a bit too much damage and so we are reducing the benefit of this tactical.

Lethality

  • Synox Shots now increases Toxic Blast’s damage by 75% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Lethality Operative’s Toxic Blast was becoming their highest priority ability with this tactical and changing their rotation in a way we did not intend. Because of this, we are reducing the damage buff given by the Synox Shots tactical while ensuring it remains a competitive choice.

 

Republic

Consular

Sage

  • Enduring Bastion (after Force Barrier) now absorbs roughly 18% less damage
  • Update to the Gathering Force 6pc set bonus: Using Force Speed now reduces the active cooldown of Mental Alacrity by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds). The duration of Mental Alacrity is now increased by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds) and requires Mental Alacrity to be used while Force Speed is active.

Seer

  • Soothing Protection now heals for roughly 12% more

-

Vanguard

  • Reduced Meteor Brawler Ionfall damage by 25%
    • Dev note: Meteor Brawler’s Ionfall affect was doing more burst damage than intended overall and so it is being reduced.

    [*]Fixed an issue where Veteran Ranger set bonus was not getting a benefit from Charged Loaders

    [*]Update to the Veteran Ranger 6pc set bonus: Each Shoulder Cannon rocket has a 75% chance to trigger an additional rocket. When Shoulder Cannon is put on cooldown, it applies Autocannon to you for 60 seconds, firing a rocket at your current target whenever you deal damage. This additional rocket can fire once every 10 seconds.

    • Dev note: The Veteran Ranger set was intended to be the more sustain-focused set for the Tactics discipline, and we realized it was underperforming in that regard. We have slightly modified its functionality to improve its effectiveness and give more consistent damage.

Tactics

  • Energy and Kinetic damage buff from High Energy Cell increased to 5% (up from 3%)
  • Riot Augs damage buff increased to 5% (up from 10%)
  • Triumph damage buff increased to 5% (up from 3%)
    • Dev note: Tactics was underperforming in DPS output, so we slightly increased their passive damage bonuses in the above three changes.

    [*]Powerlode tactical now increases Cell Burst’s crit chance by 100%

    • Dev note: We noticed this tactical wasn’t getting a lot of use and was extremely situational, so we’ve added an auto-crit aspect to it to solidify it as the burst tactical choice for Tactics players.

-

Smuggler

Scrapper

  • Acid Lash tactical now increases Flechette Round’s damage by 60% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Scrapper Smugglers with the Acid Lash tactical are doing a bit too much damage and so we are reducing the benefit of this tactical.

Ruffian

  • Synox Shots now increases Sanguinary Shot’s damage by 75% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Ruffian Smuggler’s Sanguinary Shot was becoming their highest priority ability with this tactical and changing their rotation in a way we did not intend. Because of this, we are reducing the damage buff given by the Synox Shots tactical while ensuring it remains a competitive choice.

 

Bug Fixes

These fixes are happening because we noticed a discrepancy between Gunslinger and Sniper.

Gunslinger

Dirty Fighting

  • Fixed an issue where Dirty Blast’s DoT from the Exploited Weakness tactical was dealing more damage than intended

Sharpshooter

  • Fixed an issue where the Agitating Energies tactical was refreshing Vital Shot and ticking its damage more often than intended

Again, these changes will be on the next PTS build which we are targeting to be online before the end of this week. Share your thoughts on the above changes in this thread.

 

-eric

 

Pvp class balance is so bad...literally dec. assassin, conc. oper and fury marauder > everything else. There is LITERALLY no reason to queue ranked anything but sin, oper and mara yet your class BALANCE is fully focused on pve....thanks to class stacking in solo ranked we often get two mercs or two sorcs against sins/opers/maras and the team with sins/opers and maras almost always wins. Thats some big ignorance i see about pvp balance....

Edited by bladech
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First. Thank you to whoever fixed charges, the ability to stack two charges of something then taking it off and keeping the charge was absurdly overpowered.

 

Secondly, can we get attention to Ionfall/Firefall being affected by superheated fuel? Current game Ionfall is NOT affected while Firefall is. I think this is how it should be (as in not affected by superheated fuel) instead of now on PTS both are affected again.

 

I feel GCDs feel smooth on PTS but the issue may have laid within the charges fix.

 

The last things would be.

  • Veiled Strike, triple auto crit on operative every 15 seconds.
     
  • Viral elements, AoE backstab hits main target twice.
     
  • Death Knell triple auto crit, while I think having 3 auto crit mauls is fine. I, however, do not think they should be able to be used back to back to back.
     
  • Tactical swapping, will we just let this remain to be a thing as an advantage to those who can get out of combat?
     
  • Guard on DPS, previously you'd swap stances and lose out on damage and ability procs for guarding someone. This really needs to be removed in general guard is a very strong thing.
     
  • Elemental convection allows Chain lightning to be used at a whole nother rate than ever before. Chain lightning was already a problematic ability for melee, now it's extremely strong and giving melee nearly no chance at fighting back when more than one elemental convection is at play. The root/Desync/Slow, something needs to be adjusted or even a rate limit at which the CC effects happen.
     
  • Non-related to combat, make declining a solo ranked pop much harsher and legacy wide penalty. People are still abusing backfilling with decliners.
     
  • Stun DR? It would help a lot of classes at the moment, one in mind is Juggernaut.

 

Thanks for the work, hopefully, we'll get more stuff added?

Edited by Beyrahl
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