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Class Changes in 6.1 - Feedback


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

In addition to the Alderaan Stronghold and story update in 6.1, there are also a host of class changes coming. Below you will find a list of the Class changes you will find in our next PTS build that are planned for 6.1 later this week. The list includes changes to classes and any of their items as well. Dev notes will be in italics below for each change to give some context.

 

Dev note: The healing changes below are part of ongoing balance changes to bring healers to their intended targets. Expect more healer changes and additional targeted class changes in a future update.

 

Empire

Inquisitor

Sorcerer

  • Enduring Bastion (after Force Barrier) now absorbs roughly 18% less damage
  • Update to the Gathering Force 6pc set bonus: Using Force Speed now reduces the active cooldown of Polarity Shift by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds). The duration of Polarity Shift is now increased by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds) and requires Polarity Shift to be used while Force Speed is active.

Corruption

  • Sustaining Darkness now heals for roughly 12% more

-

Powertech

  • Reduced Meteor Brawler Firefall damage by 25%
    • Dev note: Meteor Brawler’s Firefall affect was doing more burst damage than intended overall and so it is being reduced.

    [*]Fixed an issue where Veteran Ranger set bonus was not getting a benefit from Power Loaders

    [*]Update to the Veteran Ranger 6pc set bonus: Each Shoulder Cannon rocket has a 75% chance to trigger an additional rocket. When Shoulder Cannon is put on cooldown, it applies Autocannon to you for 60 seconds, firing a rocket at your current target whenever you deal damage. This additional rocket can fire once every 10 seconds.

    • Dev note: The Veteran Ranger set was intended to be the more sustain-focused set for Advanced Prototype discipline, and we realized it was underperforming in that regard. We have slightly modified its functionality to improve its effectiveness and give more consistent damage.

Advanced Prototype

  • Energy and Kinetic damage buff from High Energy Gas Cylinder increased to 5% (up from 3%)
  • Power Bracer damage buff increased to 10% (up from 5%)
  • Blood Tracker damage buff increased to 5% (up from 3%)
    • Dev note: Advanced Prototype was underperforming in DPS output, so we slightly increased their passive damage bonuses in the above three changes.

    [*]Powerlode tactical now increases Energy Burst’s crit chance by 100%

    • Dev note: We noticed this tactical wasn’t getting a lot of use and was extremely situational, so we’ve added an auto-crit aspect to it to solidify it as the burst tactical choice for Advanced Prototype players.

-

Operative

Concealment

  • Acid Lash tactical now increases Acid Blade damage by 60% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Concealment Operatives with the Acid Lash tactical are doing a bit too much damage and so we are reducing the benefit of this tactical.

Lethality

  • Synox Shots now increases Toxic Blast’s damage by 75% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Lethality Operative’s Toxic Blast was becoming their highest priority ability with this tactical and changing their rotation in a way we did not intend. Because of this, we are reducing the damage buff given by the Synox Shots tactical while ensuring it remains a competitive choice.

 

Republic

Consular

Sage

  • Enduring Bastion (after Force Barrier) now absorbs roughly 18% less damage
  • Update to the Gathering Force 6pc set bonus: Using Force Speed now reduces the active cooldown of Mental Alacrity by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds). The duration of Mental Alacrity is now increased by 5 seconds (down from 10 seconds) and requires Mental Alacrity to be used while Force Speed is active.

Seer

  • Soothing Protection now heals for roughly 12% more

-

Vanguard

  • Reduced Meteor Brawler Ionfall damage by 25%
    • Dev note: Meteor Brawler’s Ionfall affect was doing more burst damage than intended overall and so it is being reduced.

    [*]Fixed an issue where Veteran Ranger set bonus was not getting a benefit from Charged Loaders

    [*]Update to the Veteran Ranger 6pc set bonus: Each Shoulder Cannon rocket has a 75% chance to trigger an additional rocket. When Shoulder Cannon is put on cooldown, it applies Autocannon to you for 60 seconds, firing a rocket at your current target whenever you deal damage. This additional rocket can fire once every 10 seconds.

    • Dev note: The Veteran Ranger set was intended to be the more sustain-focused set for the Tactics discipline, and we realized it was underperforming in that regard. We have slightly modified its functionality to improve its effectiveness and give more consistent damage.

Tactics

  • Energy and Kinetic damage buff from High Energy Cell increased to 5% (up from 3%)
  • Riot Augs damage buff increased to 5% (up from 10%)
  • Triumph damage buff increased to 5% (up from 3%)
    • Dev note: Tactics was underperforming in DPS output, so we slightly increased their passive damage bonuses in the above three changes.

    [*]Powerlode tactical now increases Cell Burst’s crit chance by 100%

    • Dev note: We noticed this tactical wasn’t getting a lot of use and was extremely situational, so we’ve added an auto-crit aspect to it to solidify it as the burst tactical choice for Tactics players.

-

Smuggler

Scrapper

  • Acid Lash tactical now increases Flechette Round’s damage by 60% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Scrapper Smugglers with the Acid Lash tactical are doing a bit too much damage and so we are reducing the benefit of this tactical.

Ruffian

  • Synox Shots now increases Sanguinary Shot’s damage by 75% (down from 100%)
    • Dev note: Ruffian Smuggler’s Sanguinary Shot was becoming their highest priority ability with this tactical and changing their rotation in a way we did not intend. Because of this, we are reducing the damage buff given by the Synox Shots tactical while ensuring it remains a competitive choice.

 

Bug Fixes

These fixes are happening because we noticed a discrepancy between Gunslinger and Sniper.

Gunslinger

Dirty Fighting

  • Fixed an issue where Dirty Blast’s DoT from the Exploited Weakness tactical was dealing more damage than intended

Sharpshooter

  • Fixed an issue where the Agitating Energies tactical was refreshing Vital Shot and ticking its damage more often than intended

Again, these changes will be on the next PTS build which we are targeting to be online before the end of this week. Share your thoughts on the above changes in this thread.

 

-eric

Edited by EricMusco
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Vanguard

Fixed an issue where Veteran Ranger set bonus was not getting a benefit from Charged Loaders

Update to the Veteran Ranger 6pc set bonus: Each Shoulder Cannon rocket has a 75% chance to trigger an additional rocket. When Shoulder Cannon is put on cooldown, it applies Autocannon to you for 60 seconds, firing a rocket at your current target whenever you deal damage. This additional rocket can fire once every 10 seconds.

  • Dev note: The Veteran Ranger set was intended to be the more sustain-focused set for the Tactics discipline, and we realized it was underperforming in that regard. We have slightly modified its functionality to improve its effectiveness and give more consistent damage.

 

This set has a bad quality of life. It's a hard set to get and it's not competitive with meteor brawler at all. The 4pc bonus doesn't last long enough for tactics to fire all their missiles in that short window. You would need to wait another 18 seconds to ion wave again to fire the remaining missiles. 4pc bonus should really be a passive that just increases the damage of missiles and should not be tied to an ability that is never used for single target. The set also doesn't work with the utility that gives you a heal on each missile.

Edited by Fellow-Canadian
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While the sorcerer changes may be intended to make Lightning sorcerer a bit more vulnerable, it'll make Madness even squishier in PVP. Madness is already in a not-so-spectacular place in ranked PVP, to put it lightly. Any chance it's defensives / DR could use some love while the Enduring Bastion changes are pushed to live?

 

edit: And the Gathering Storm nerf also affects Madness while it wasn't particularly out of line... may I suggest you don't nerf the base class when it's Lightning which is overperforming?

Edited by Metthew
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Literally none of these changes address any of the balance concerns of 6.0. Who the hell is working on the combat team? Have they ever played pvp?

 

You're nerfing sorcs before nerfing assassins? You think that acid lash is the problem tactical for concealment operatives? It's absolutely absurd.

 

If these changes go live like this, you've just further solidified that you haven't a clue how to balance classes for pvp. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

may I suggest you don't nerf the base class when it's Lightning which is overperforming?

 

In what universe is lightning overperforming compared to deception sins and concealment ops?

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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Inquisitors do not need a nerf to their class set, if anything madness needs a buff. This is gonna wreck it even more.

 

And not addressing sin burst issues what is going on?

 

Also, looking at GS set and adjusting it down without looking at Established Foothold is a bad idea.

Edited by ottffsse
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Regarding the Vanguard and Powertech changes.

 

Powertech/Vanguard

  • Reduced Meteor Brawler Firefall/Ionfall damage by 25%
    • Dev note: Meteor Brawler’s Firefall/Ionfall affect was doing more burst damage than intended overall and so it is being reduced.

Ok, but a major issue is that it still autocrits due to the Superheated Fuel tactical, resulting in consistently massive damage to 1 or many targets.

 

Furthermore the implementation of the Superheated Fuel tactical is inconsistent between factions on the tooltip and abilities it affects.

 

I used a Pyrotech PT and a Plasmatech VG in 6pc Meteor Brawler + Superheated Fuel with full accuracy, no relics, implants, ear or consumable buffs, a full offhand and empty mainhand for testing.

 

Imperial

Explosive Fuel increases all Flame attacks critical chance by 100%.

Works on:

 

Flaming Fist (Initial Elemental hit not the second hit which is Kinetic)

Flame Burst

Combustible Gas Cylinder DoT

Incendiary Missile + Incendiary Missile DoT

Immolate

Scorch DoT

Flame Sweep

Searing Wave

Firefall (from Meteor Brawler)

 

Doesn't work on:

 

Rapid Shots

Rail Shot

Shatter Slug

Shoulder Cannon

Deadly Onslaught

Electro Dart

Carbonize

Jet Charge

 

Republic

Battle Focus increases all elemental and kinetic attacks critical chance by 100%.

 

It works on:

 

Shockstrike (Initial Elemental hit not the second hit which is Kinetic)

Ion Pulse

Plasma Cell DoT

Incendiary Round + Incendiary Round DoT

Plasma Flare

Plasmatize DoT

Explosive Surge

Ion Wave

 

Doesn't work on:

 

Hammer Shot

High Impact Bolt

Flak Shell (Kinetic damage but no autocrit)

Shoulder Cannon (Kinetic damage but no autocrit)

Artillery Blitz (half the hits are Elemental and half are Kinetic like Shockstrike but no autocrits)

Cryo Grenade

Neural Surge

Storm (Kinetic damage but no autocrit)

Ionfall (from Meteor Brawler, Elemental damage but no autocrit)

 

 

Conclusions

 

 

  • Superheated Fuel has two conflicting tooltips with the Imperial version being the most correct when compared with the effects granted.
     
    I believe the tactical and effects were created while only thinking about the Imperial faction because Flame is not a real damage type in the game so there is no equivalent single word that covers the mirror abilities on Republic and using the real damage type label of Elemental raises exceptions as you can see from the list. Kinetic was also mentioned on the Republic tooltip and is completely false.

 

 

  • The 6pc Meteor Brawler bonus of Firefall / Ionfall is made to autocrit by the Superheated Fuel tactical on the Imperial faction but not the Republic faction.
     
    Apart from that, the effects of the tactical are identical.

 

 

Hopefully

 

 

  • The autocrit of Firefall by Superheated Fuel is disabled on the Imperial faction as Ionfall is on the Republic one. It has been a joke since launch how much cheap and massive damage it deals, with autocritting being a major cause.

 

 

  • The tooltip gets changed to be equally accurate for both, something along the lines of...
     
    Explosive Fuel increases Elemental attacks critical chance by 100% except Firefall and Deadly Onslaught.
     
    Battle Focus increases Elemental attacks critical chance by 100% except Ionfall and Artillery Blitz.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Good ol BW. Anytime Lightning/TK is in a good spot it gets nerfed the first patch while mercs got to stay stupid for an entire expansion. Also lol at nerfing it before deception gets nerfed and not even nerfing the real problem with concealment. Even better in order to nerf lightning they're going to make madness unplayable and mess with corruption's survivability in this burst meta.

 

Don't worry though BW. Somehow Blizzard manages to be even more incompetent than yall.

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Powertech

  • Reduced Meteor Brawler Firefall damage by 25%
    • Dev note: Meteor Brawler’s Firefall affect was doing more burst damage than intended overall and so it is being reduced.

 

You're fixing the wrong issue. The real problem is the Superheated Fuel tactical outperforms all others in all situations for 2/3 specs and contributes massively to Firefall's damage because of the guaranteed crit and absurd surge it grants.

Edited by FridgeLM
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Good ol BW. Anytime Lightning/TK is in a good spot it gets nerfed the first patch while mercs got to stay stupid for an entire expansion. Also lol at nerfing it before deception gets nerfed and not even nerfing the real problem with concealment. Even better in order to nerf lightning they're going to make madness unplayable and mess with corruption's survivability in this burst meta.

 

Exactly. Even though my expectations weren't all that high for the next balance patch, this is even more incompetent than I thought possible.

 

They haven't fixed the vents on Mandalorian Battle Ring. They haven't fixed tactical swapping. They haven't nerfed maul spam. They haven't nerfed volatile strike.

 

These changes are a disgrace.

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You guys really don't like Troopers. Why not just remove them from the game since you're taking away the only good armor set bonus out of all the Vanguard/Powertech sets. I mean at least give us a tanking set that's worth a crap. I mean you give Guardian/Juggernauts a decent tanking set not to mention their DPS sets, even Shadows/Assassins have better tank sets than Vanguard/Powertech. Meteor Brawler was pretty much the only set that was worth it and now you are nerfing it and putting the Vanguard/Powertech even lower. I mean just take them out of the game already or stop nerfing them to the point no one wants to play them anymore.
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I logged in on my phone to make my very first post on this here thread. Mobile is a trip

 

PVE and PVP are two separate games and trying to balance them together is always gonna be a cluster. Y’all are gonna nerf sorcs again while the openly broken OP stays OP and/or gets buffed?? Y’all are giving PVP whiner wanks too much weight and should nerf them instead.

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The sorc changes are half-baked; more adjustments need to be made to prevent the class from getting neutered to a ridiculous extent. I agree that current Polarity Shift uptime is excessive for PvP, mainly because it provides massive boosts to kiting, burst, and interrupt prevention. But keep in mind that 6.0 Sorc DPS is actually pretty low without Polarity Shift--especially in PvE--and the Gathering Storm set bonus helps players compensate for this issue. Plus, Madness is currently under-performing even with the overpowered Polarity Shifts.

 

If the developers are going to (rightfully) nerf Gathering Storm, then they need to compensate by buffing certain abilities and passives; otherwise, both specs will struggle to hit 22k dps while all other ranged DPS specs are eclipsing 23k. I suggest the following changes, in addition to the set bonus nerf, to help balance things properly:

 

Sorcerer:

(1) Increase the damage of Affliction by 20 percent. (This will negate about half of the dps loss from the Gathering Storm nerf, while also giving healers a much-needed boost to their off-DPS in PvE.)

 

Lightning:

(1) Decrease the damage of Chain Lightning by 10 percent. (Thanks to Elemental Convection, Lightning Sorcs have insane output during cleave situations in PvP; this nerf will help take the edge off. Chain Lightning will still be more damaging than a Lightning Bolt, so the rotation will be unaffected.)

(2) Chain Lightning's root and snare effects can only occur once every 9 seconds. (The root spam caused by Elemental Convection is an absolute killer for melee at the moment.)

(3) Increase the Shock bonus perk to 85 percent, up from 35 percent. (This will compensate for the nerfs to Gathering Storm and Chain Lightning. When paired with Recklessness, Shock will complement Thundering Blast nicely. Plus, the move isn't reliant on the RNG nature of Forked Lightning procs, which is part of what makes Polarity Shift so strong for Lightning in the first place.)

 

Madness:

(1) Increase the damage of Force Leech and Force Lightning by 10 percent. (This will help to further negate the Gathering Storm nerfs while also giving Madness a much-needed boost to its single-target DPS.)

 

Changes like these will help Sorcs absorb the massive DPS loss caused by the changes to Gathering Storm, while also mitigating the excessive cleave of Lightning and buffing the lackluster single target DPS of madness.

Edited by Hoppinswtor
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What's the rationale for the changes to the Gathering Storm set bonus? You gave an explanation for the changes for all the other classes except for sorc. Do you guys think the Gathering Storm set bonus is too powerful? Is Lightning too powerful? Is it just sorc DPS in general too powerful? If it's just the set bonus, why wouldn't you give some buffs to Lightning and Madness alongside the set bonus nerf so they stay at the same power level? If it's just Lightning, nerfing the set bonus is gonna hurt Madness too, even if it isn't as much. The only way this course of action makes sense is if you guys think Sorc DPS is too powerful in general, but I really don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion since Madness is currently performing so poorly.

 

A small increase to the healing from the bubble is also not gonna buff sorc heals to be as strong as Merc and Op. Really it just comes down to the fact that the Sorc heal tacticals and set bonus are worse than what the other two specs have (and some of the tacticals for sorc heal are bugged). The Revitalized Mystic set bonus is just flat out worse than what they had in 5.0 while literally all of the other BiS set bonuses are significantly stronger than the old 5.0 bonuses and so is Empowered Restorer, but it has the added bonus of going completely against how sorc heal is supposed to be played. You're never supposed to get stacks of Weary or use Dark Heal without the proc that makes it instant and free and you don't need to either, and it also won't make much sense to use the Force Bending proc on Dark Heal since that increases the crit chance by 60% will negate the 10% crit chance from the set bonus. I really don't get thinking here, in what world is +5% healing done and +15% crit chance on abilities like operatives get with the tactician set bonus or the 10% critical chance and increased supercharge gain equal to 10% crit chance and 20% heal increase (sometimes) to only 1 ability. Both set bonuses need an extra effect or two like what has been done with the PT sets.

 

Also, why hasn't anything been done about Volt Rush? Even if you use the Endless Offensive set bonus and a Volt Rush tactical item, it's still a terrible ability and Endless Offensive won't be better than Gathering Storm even after your proposed nerfs.The only time Volt Rush is at all useful is with the Elemental Convection tactical for Lightning, and even then it's only used because it's required for Lightning to get any sort of AoE damage increase, but you're still much better off switching to Madness and using Slow Mercy if you really need the AoE damage. There's another catch too, in order to maximize Chain Lightnings, you don't get to benefit from the damage increases from using Volt Rush successively. In Madness, using The Rushdown tactical item, your DPS is actually lower than if you aren't using a tactical item at all (and no, 2 extra GCDs of mobility every other cycle is not enough. In both specs, disruptions occur when Volt Rush is used because it's shoehorned into their rotations/priority so you end up having to delay things and in general the specs become more difficult and clunky to play because they aren't built to handle accommodate another ability.

 

Honestly it feels like sorcs only got a new ability because nothing could be given an extra charge like merc got and all the other classes got a brand new ability so you guys decided to make a new ability but then make it so terrible that no one would actually want to use it. I feel like you could have accomplished the same goal by just giving sorcs some really flashy and totally impractical ability instead, like a 6 second cast, 2-3 min cooldown, 100k damage Valkorion-style Force Explosion type thing like what he uses to kill Darth Marr.

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The sorc changes are half-baked; more adjustments need to be made to prevent the class from getting neutered to a ridiculous extent. I agree that current Polarity Shift uptime is excessive for PvP, mainly because it provides massive boosts to kiting, burst, and interrupt prevention. But keep in mind that 6.0 Sorc DPS is actually pretty low without Polarity Shift--especially in PvE--and the Gathering Storm set bonus helps players compensate for this issue. Plus, Madness is currently under-performing even with the overpowered Polarity Shifts.

 

If the developers are going to (rightfully) nerf Gathering Storm, then they need to compensate by buffing certain abilities and passives; otherwise, both specs will struggle to hit 22k dps while all other ranged DPS specs are eclipsing 23k. I suggest the following changes, in addition to the set bonus nerf, to help balance things properly:

 

Sorcerer:

(1) Increase the damage of Affliction by 20 percent. (This will negate about half of the dps loss from the Gathering Storm nerf, while also giving healers a much-needed boost to their off-DPS in PvE.)

 

Lightning:

(1) Decrease the damage of Chain Lightning by 10 percent. (Thanks to Elemental Convection, Lightning Sorcs have insane output during cleave situations in PvP; this nerf will help take the edge off. Chain Lightning will still be more damaging than a Lightning Bolt, so the rotation will be unaffected.)

(2) Chain Lightning's root and snare effects can only occur once every 9 seconds. (The root spam caused by Elemental Convection is an absolute killer for melee at the moment.)

(3) Increase the Shock bonus perk to 85 percent, up from 35 percent. (This will compensate for the nerfs to Gathering Storm and Chain Lightning. When paired with Recklessness, Shock will complement Thundering Blast nicely. Plus, the move isn't reliant on the RNG nature of Forked Lightning procs, which is part of what makes Polarity Shift so strong for Lightning in the first place.)

 

Madness:

(1) Increase the damage of Force Leech and Force Lightning by 10 percent. (This will help to further negate the Gathering Storm nerfs while also giving Madness a much-needed boost to its single-target DPS.)

 

Changes like these will help Sorcs absorb the massive DPS loss caused by the changes to Gathering Storm, while also mitigating the excessive cleave of Lightning and buffing the lackluster single target DPS of madness.

 

Completely agree with Hoppin. Polarity uptime was excessive, but damage overall is weak, except when using the elemental convection tactical in cleave situations. All of his suggestions should be regarded as the bible.

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Ionfall is not getting an auto crit or a super crit from superheated fuel, while firefall is. Please fix this.

Also can we please look at triple auto crit maul for assassin or the triple auto crit for concealment? Veiled strike tactical is too strong, spamming auto crits back to back period is too strong.

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Ionfall is not getting an auto crit or a super crit from superheated fuel, while firefall is. Please fix this.

Also can we please look at triple auto crit maul for assassin or the triple auto crit for concealment? Veiled strike tactical is too strong, spamming auto crits back to back period is too strong.

 

This.

 

So... nerfing Sorc whilst Deception Assassin's are still untouched? And then nerfing Acid Lash when one of the other tacticals is the main problem in pvp? ...Okay then. :rolleyes:

 

And this.

 

Completely agree with Hoppin. Polarity uptime was excessive, but damage overall is weak, except when using the elemental convection tactical in cleave situations. All of his suggestions should be regarded as the bible.

 

Even if you're both right...it's obviously ridiculous that Bioware is even considering nerfing sorcs before nerfing deception sins and concealment ops.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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Enduring Bastion (after Force Barrier) now absorbs roughly 18% less damage

 

BW, are you okay?

 

While the sorcerer changes may be intended to make Lightning sorcerer a bit more vulnerable, it'll make Madness even squishier in PVP. Madness is already in a not-so-spectacular place in ranked PVP, to put it lightly. Any chance it's defensives / DR could use some love while the Enduring Bastion changes are pushed to live?

 

Literally none of these changes address any of the balance concerns of 6.0. Who the hell is working on the combat team? Have they ever played pvp?

 

You're nerfing sorcs before nerfing assassins?

 

if anything madness needs a buff. This is gonna wreck it even more.

 

And not addressing sin burst issues what is going on?

 

Exactly. RIP Madness. I'm cancelling my subscription.

Edited by EmperorRus
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why are you guys surprised?

 

they demonstrated it with every single balancing-patch,

that they don't have any idea of class balancing.

 

does anybody really believed in their promises to do fast

and smaller balancing changes to adjust them? it was, it

is and it always will be the way, that they do such heavy

changes, to brake complete classes, because they don't

have any idea of class balancing or how the classes are

working at all.

 

there is also no need to test any changes on the pts,

because they will ignore any feedback, like always.

the history of balancing changes just prove it.

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I was one of the last PvE Madness mains in 6.0, alongside with Griergar and couple more, I guess, and now you literally killed literally the most unpopular spec in the game, making it even less valuable than it is/was, being outperformed by everything else including some tanks in PvP btw.

 

GS was the only option to do okayish damage (even you had to cheese something and predict many things unlike juggs or snipers sitting in entrench), it gave us opportunity to have more sustained damage in price of nice mobility tool (nice irony with sin tanks), and now GS nerfed to dust, our single passive damage mitigating ability nerfed (Force Barrier is oh-crap-button itself though; Static Barrier is GCD waste unless you don't have sorc healer available (also his Deionized on you can screw it) and you see boss being ready to slap the dust out of you; Cloud Mind and Unnatural Preservation damage reduction are utilities, not built-in things and sometimes you have to trade those). The only way to play it now is to play with very strong teams (or literally #carried by normal classes), because one mistake from anybody with AoE under your feet, cleave from tank or bad healing and you can begin to ask for res, one mistake from you and your DPS is going to zero. Kinda mediocre joy of playing

 

I'm cancelling my sub, thanks for saving my money and nerves.

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