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How does BioWare feel about GSF just being used by PVE players to farm conquest?


HaoZhao

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I think that’s an unfair assessment of Luc. He is here daily helping the community when they ask for help. If he were to pull his punches in matches to accommodate newbies like me, I would never get better.

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One name you are going to hear about, if you stick around, is Neutrinos. At this moment in time he has been gone 15 months and is apparently not interested in returning. But, he was and still is generally considered - even by other respected top level Aces - to be the best pilot to ever play GSF. Certainly in terms of pure mechanical skill and map awareness anyway. There is argument to say others were better strategists for example. But he stood almost alone in skill. I consider myself privileged to have played against Neutrinos. Well, "played against," is a misnomer really. Witnessed is more accurate, because he was devastating. Certainly I had zero chances when I encountered him.

 

Yes, I was uncertain when I was new to GSF if he was cheating. But I spoke to others and I was readily assured, no he just is that good. Neutrinos' legacy lives on in Invis, who was his protege, and in terms of match effectiveness, and skill in a ship, is as good as Neutrinos. The only way to be certain if Neutrinos or Invis is the better pilot, would be for Neutrinos to come back. But its academic really. It doesn't matter. Neutrinos taught Invis everything he knows, and Invis was a worthy student. I am lucky now, to be able to train with Invis, and effectively gain access to what Neutrinos taught Invis. Yui (otherwise known as Zekken) is another one. Someone asked once if Yui was equal to Neutrinos, and Yui's reply, which I think I agree with, was that Neutrinos was the better Scout, Yui is the better Gunship. But at that level, its so elite, that there is no comparison. They are both phenomenal. These people are what I term Elite Aces. Because something has to separate them from the normal aces. Normal Aces still have to be Aces, because you can't argue with what they have achieved in game. But the Elite guys, there aren't many of those, and they are untouchable in a fair fight. They have stats that beat everyone else. Solo stats.

 

I consider myself fortunate to have flown with or against all of these guys in my time. Certainly there were others that left before I started. If you were to ask me what it takes to be someone who can make it to the upper tiers of being an Ace, I would say it's how you react to seeing these guys in battle. IF you resort to accusations of cheating, saying they are only good with Damage Overcharges, trash talking them, or generally making excuses, then you wont make it. You're not cut out for it. But if you see what they do and admire it, desire and aspire to be as good as them, then you've got what it takes. And given time, you will be an Ace. This is why I don't pull my punches in GSF anymore. If I go easy on you, it dumbs down the talent pool. If you think you beat me, but I took it easy on you, you learn nothing. Invis doesn't take it easy on me when I duel with him, and so he shouldn't, otherwise I wont ever make it to Elite Ace. GSF needs talented players, not people who want others to take it easy on them so that they can feel good about themselves.

 

Not pulling my punches also makes me a better pilot. When you are at a level that you rarely come across someone else of equal ability in a match, the challenge is less about dog fighting someone equally as good, and more about carrying teams in the defiance of ever greater odds against you. Because I don't pull my punches, because I go hard all the time, people come after me. Aggressively, persistently and relentlessly. They see me on a bad team, and they pounce on me in mobs. They even do it when I am on the better team, such is the desire to take revenge. Frustrating as it may be at times, learning to cope with that pressure makes me better. You also know when you have mentally beaten someone when they stop coming after you. GSF is a brutal game. You can't get away from that and you can't make excuses for it. You either sink or swim. Pulling punches and nerfing myself, will not achieve anything in the long run.

Edited by Ttoilleekul
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Zanthana from Star Forge here - just weighing in on the OP.

 

More people are playing GSF than any time in the past few years, and it's brilliant. People are really learning to play it too - I've watched guildies go from the regular 0 kills every match up to 2 kills then jump brilliantly to the 10 kills a match once they grok how the game works. I was one of them!

 

Does it give great conquest points? Yep! Is that a bad thing? No - it has pushed a lot more people into playing an almost dead game mode. I can get match after match. The same with unranked, that's popping more than ever.

 

It's a heck of a lot better for an MMO to promote these activities than crafting solo thousands of objects a day. I do think that Operations, Flashpoints and Uprisings could be worth more points too as they take some organisation to get going and require some skill, but idea that drastically nerfing the points for GSF just because more people are playing it is silly.

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One name you are going to hear about, if you stick around, is Neutrinos. At this moment in time he has been gone 15 months and is apparently not interested in returning. But, he was and still is generally considered - even by other respected top level Aces - to be the best pilot to ever play GSF. Certainly in terms of pure mechanical skill and map awareness anyway. There is argument to say others were better strategists for example. But he stood almost alone in skill. I consider myself privileged to have played against Neutrinos. Well, "played against," is a misnomer really. Witnessed is more accurate, because he was devastating. Certainly I had zero chances when I encountered him.

 

I had to reply to this just because it seems a bit excessive. I don't know where you get the best pilot ever to play gsf, because that's a pretty high pedestal to place anyone on. Now I'm not saying he wasn't one of the best, but that's a bold claim to make of anyone. Willie had a bit of a mythic reputation but I was just learning by the time he was on his way out. Despair also carried a reputation but they were gone before I had even played my first match. Simply put, be mindful with the declarations. I can wholly admit that neutrinos was better than me, but its not like we didn't blow each other up, he/she just happened to do it more often -- mainly because he/she paid more attention to the cooldowns than I did back then. A lot of what neutrinos could do back then no longer applies post 5.5 because the dynamic changed so dramatically. I myself had to break a lot of old habits and adapt after coming back. Yet, at the same time, my "flying style" is heavily influenced by all the elite pilots I have played against in GSF over the years.

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While I'm stil logged in --

 

As far as conquest and seasons go, I finally had my worst match ever, and it happened on malgus. A 194-1000.

Now mind you I've definitely had more one-sided losses. But it was the only match where I managed 8 kills and just 2 deaths where the only teammate to manage a kill literally stole it as I was finishing him off doing a total of 848 damage at 5% accuracy. That was 7 other people doing less damage than I did combined with none of them even breaking 10k.

 

So I can definitely attest to seeing the extreme end of match quality decline. The silver lining is that lousy matchups (tho typically not that extreme) aren't exactly a rare occurrence but at least now we aren't having to wait so long to find out how screwed we are =p.

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One name you are going to hear about, if you stick around, is Neutrinos. At this moment in time he has been gone 15 months and is apparently not interested in returning. But, he was and still is generally considered - even by other respected top level Aces - to be the best pilot to ever play GSF. Certainly in terms of pure mechanical skill and map awareness anyway. There is argument to say others were better strategists for example. But he stood almost alone in skill. I consider myself privileged to have played against Neutrinos. Well, "played against," is a misnomer really. Witnessed is more accurate, because he was devastating. Certainly I had zero chances when I encountered him.

 

Yes, I was uncertain when I was new to GSF if he was cheating. But I spoke to others and I was readily assured, no he just is that good. Neutrinos' legacy lives on in Invis, who was his protege, and in terms of match effectiveness, and skill in a ship, is as good as Neutrinos. The only way to be certain if Neutrinos or Invis is the better pilot, would be for Neutrinos to come back. But its academic really. It doesn't matter. Neutrinos taught Invis everything he knows, and Invis was a worthy student. I am lucky now, to be able to train with Invis, and effectively gain access to what Neutrinos taught Invis. Yui (otherwise known as Zekken) is another one. Someone asked once if Yui was equal to Neutrinos, and Yui's reply, which I think I agree with, was that Neutrinos was the better Scout, Yui is the better Gunship. But at that level, its so elite, that there is no comparison. They are both phenomenal. These people are what I term Elite Aces. Because something has to separate them from the normal aces. Normal Aces still have to be Aces, because you can't argue with what they have achieved in game. But the Elite guys, there aren't many of those, and they are untouchable in a fair fight. They have stats that beat everyone else. Solo stats.

 

I consider myself fortunate to have flown with or against all of these guys in my time. Certainly there were others that left before I started. If you were to ask me what it takes to be someone who can make it to the upper tiers of being an Ace, I would say it's how you react to seeing these guys in battle. IF you resort to accusations of cheating, saying they are only good with Damage Overcharges, trash talking them, or generally making excuses, then you wont make it. You're not cut out for it. But if you see what they do and admire it, desire and aspire to be as good as them, then you've got what it takes. And given time, you will be an Ace. This is why I don't pull my punches in GSF anymore. If I go easy on you, it dumbs down the talent pool. If you think you beat me, but I took it easy on you, you learn nothing. Invis doesn't take it easy on me when I duel with him, and so he shouldn't, otherwise I wont ever make it to Elite Ace. GSF needs talented players, not people who want others to take it easy on them so that they can feel good about themselves.

 

Not pulling my punches also makes me a better pilot. When you are at a level that you rarely come across someone else of equal ability in a match, the challenge is less about dog fighting someone equally as good, and more about carrying teams in the defiance of ever greater odds against you. Because I don't pull my punches, because I go hard all the time, people come after me. Aggressively, persistently and relentlessly. They see me on a bad team, and they pounce on me in mobs. They even do it when I am on the better team, such is the desire to take revenge. Frustrating as it may be at times, learning to cope with that pressure makes me better. You also know when you have mentally beaten someone when they stop coming after you. GSF is a brutal game. You can't get away from that and you can't make excuses for it. You either sink or swim. Pulling punches and nerfing myself, will not achieve anything in the long run.

 

Totally agree. It’s why I don’t hold back in ground pvp (even for my wife). Majority of people only get better if they play against better players. If I have it easy and don’t have someone pushing me to get better, I won’t get better because I won’t see the need. The challenge is always trying to learn all the nuances. Sadly, I don’t think the game’s going to be around long enough for me yo get as good at GSF as I am at ground pvp. I should have started playing it years ago (another missed opportunity).

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I had to reply to this just because it seems a bit excessive. I don't know where you get the best pilot ever to play gsf, because that's a pretty high pedestal to place anyone on. Now I'm not saying he wasn't one of the best, but that's a bold claim to make of anyone. Willie had a bit of a mythic reputation but I was just learning by the time he was on his way out. Despair also carried a reputation but they were gone before I had even played my first match. Simply put, be mindful with the declarations. I can wholly admit that neutrinos was better than me, but its not like we didn't blow each other up, he/she just happened to do it more often -- mainly because he/she paid more attention to the cooldowns than I did back then. A lot of what neutrinos could do back then no longer applies post 5.5 because the dynamic changed so dramatically. I myself had to break a lot of old habits and adapt after coming back. Yet, at the same time, my "flying style" is heavily influenced by all the elite pilots I have played against in GSF over the years.

 

I am not exactly surprised that you disagree with me here Roland, and I am going to leave it at that :)

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The thread is about "How does BioWare feel about GSF just being used by PVE players to farm conquest?"

Yet it has gone way off topic with a number of posts....but not surprisingly the mods have done nothing about it.... :rolleyes:

 

 

So back on topic, They don't care, and the reason they don't care, is because it's gotten the queue to pop a lot more...a lot, lot more. In fact, as I've stated before the gsf queue pops at most times within 15 mins, even on off peak, or 'dead' times. And that is what certain people want.

Edited by DarkTergon
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I just left my first match in ages (intentionally early) because not only was there a group beating up my random assortment of teammates but at least one had the nerve to use a map exploit when it was already 20-5.

 

It's not just the new players creating issues, the old ones are far from innocent.

 

So yeah as long as the money comes in, there's no reason for them to address anything.

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So as I said in the beginning of this post regarding GSF being used to farm CQ. NO issues. Nothing wrong with that. Bioware want participation in all aspects of the game. CQ is one such incentive to promote participation in multiple different aspects the game. Galactic Seasons is another. And while we are on topic, Galactic Seasons had a much bigger effect on the player base of GSF than CQ ever did. You can't blame Bioware for wanting all aspects of its game to have healthy populations. So how do they feel about it? I imagine they feel great about it, since it was by design. And the hope is that it will make some people realize they enjoy the mode. and try to learn it since they are going to be playing it anyway. Recent events on this forum are proof enough of that working, as am I. I joined GSF because of the Ossus incentive, and here I am now playing at a high level. So yeah, Score one Bioware. Well done.
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I just left my first match in ages (intentionally early) because not only was there a group beating up my random assortment of teammates but at least one had the nerve to use a map exploit when it was already 20-5.

 

It's not just the new players creating issues, the old ones are far from innocent.

 

So yeah as long as the money comes in, there's no reason for them to address anything.

 

What is this map exploit? I don’t want to know how to do it. I just want to know how to identify it.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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There are at least two on the lost shipyards tdm map --- both allow the player to fire out but are fully protected by anyone trying to fire in --- unless you enter through the same hole in the terrain they did.

 

The easiest way to identify it is if they can fire and hit you but you can't hit them despite facing directly toward them. There's a screenshot in the gsf discord i posted in general or satele -- posting images here isn't so friendly not to mention the naming and shaming mess.

 

You do have to be careful not to confuse it with someone strafing around obstacles to fire and hide so its more of something you have to see up close to verify.

 

It's typically rare for people other than lazy bombers to bother using it - and those can generally be ignored unless you have teammates that keep falling for it

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There are at least two on the lost shipyards tdm map --- both allow the player to fire out but are fully protected by anyone trying to fire in --- unless you enter through the same hole in the terrain they did.

 

The easiest way to identify it is if they can fire and hit you but you can't hit them despite facing directly toward them. There's a screenshot in the gsf discord i posted in general or satele -- posting images here isn't so friendly not to mention the naming and shaming mess.

 

You do have to be careful not to confuse it with someone strafing around obstacles to fire and hide so its more of something you have to see up close to verify.

 

It's typically rare for people other than lazy bombers to bother using it - and those can generally be ignored unless you have teammates that keep falling for it

 

Ok (checked out discord), 100% saw someone inside there the other night. Didn’t die all match and we couldn’t hit them. I tried every angle I could to look for an opening so I could shoot them.

 

Why doesn’t Bioware just make it an instant death box if you go in there (that would fix the problem). The same as they did in ground pvp if you hack into walls or go out of bounds, the system automatically kills you. They also shouldn’t put the fix in the patch notes so all the cheats learn the hard way by dying ;)

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Ok (checked out discord), 100% saw someone inside there the other night. Didn’t die all match and we couldn’t hit them. I tried every angle I could to look for an opening so I could shoot them.

 

Why doesn’t Bioware just make it an instant death box if you go in there (that would fix the problem). The same as they did in ground pvp if you hack into walls or go out of bounds, the system automatically kills you. They also shouldn’t put the fix in the patch notes so all the cheats learn the hard way by dying ;)

 

While I (and I'm sure everyone else around here) would love for them to fix it, it's at least an easy problem to deal with: they can't leave, and you have no reason to get near them, so don't try to get in there. You can try telling your team that too, but 50/50 whether they're even reading.

 

We did get slicing changed. Maybe it's time for a thread about the broken geometry too? Since tickets alone don't appear to be enough.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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While I (and I'm sure everyone else around here) would love for them to fix it, it's at least an easy problem to deal with: they can't leave, and you have no reason to get near them, so don't try to get in there. You can try telling your team that too, but 50/50 whether they're even reading.

 

We did get slicing changed. Maybe it's time for a thread about the broken geometry too? Since tickets alone don't appear to be enough.

 

Seems like it would be an easy fix. And considering ChrisS specifically worked on GSF, it’s not like they don’t have anyone with no knowledge on the GSF coding.

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Seems like it would be an easy fix. And considering ChrisS specifically worked on GSF, it’s not like they don’t have anyone with no knowledge on the GSF coding.

 

Do you remember we said the devs have a habit of leaving GSF alone? This has in part been why its so well balanced in terms of ship / class balance and ship roles. Since the big patch in 5.5 (which in short nerfed Scouts and buffed Strikes) GSF has been largely ignored. Most regulars have been fine with this since it means the devs are not constantly screwing it up like they are with ground PVP, ruining the class balance all the time. But, the downside is that little bugs don't get fixed either. The one-way textures aren't the only one. There some lesser known ones in Iokath too. There is also a bug which makes your tier 3-5 component selections disappear randomly. So if no one has told you this, when you log in or switch toons, check your tier 3 selections on engines and shields, and your tier 4 and 5 selections on weapons. They doesn't always vanish, but when they do you really notice it. The crew passives also used to show the icon for the passives on the right hand side. That vanished with Onslaught.

 

We got their attention with Remote slicing. We started a petition and the devs amazingly took note and actually nerfed remote slicing. Which was a raging success. So, they can still code GSF - although it did create a minor bug in how slicing works, which again, is so minor no one really cares about it. So in the GSF community we have kind of gotten used to GSF being untouched, whether for updates or fixes :rolleyes:

Edited by Ttoilleekul
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Do you remember we said the devs have a habit of leaving GSF alone? This has in part been why its so well balanced in terms of ship / class balance and ship roles. Since the big patch in 5.5 (which in short nerfed Scouts and buffed Strikes) GSF has been largely ignored. Most regulars have been fine with this since it means the devs are not constantly screwing it up like they are with ground PVP, ruining the class balance all the time. But, the downside is that little bugs don't get fixed either. The one-way textures aren't the only one. There some lesser known ones in Iokath too. There is also a bug which makes your tier 3-5 component selections disappear randomly. So if no one has told you this, when you log in or switch toons, check your tier 3 selections on engines and shields, and your tier 4 and 5 selections on weapons. They doesn't always vanish, but when they do you really notice it. The crew passives also used to show the icon for the passives on the right hand side. That vanished with Onslaught.

 

We got their attention with Remote slicing. We started a petition and the devs amazingly took note and actually nerfed remote slicing. Which was a raging success. So, they can still code GSF - although it did create a minor bug in how slicing works, which again, is so minor no one really cares about it. So in the GSF community we have kind of gotten used to GSF being untouched, whether for updates or fixes :rolleyes:

 

Let’s see if we can get their attention again to fix the exploit bugs cause nothing puts off new players more than people cheating.

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Let’s see if we can get their attention again to fix the exploit bugs cause nothing puts off new players more than people cheating.

 

another day, another round of cheaters. Just finished a match on leviathan , had at least one guy 'hopping' around, teleporting...... Happening daily.

 

As for the people not participating during matches, if you die, on the screen you can see their names, just click on it to vote them, out, not sure how many it takes, but till we start voting them out, they'll just keep doing nothing. BW won't fix this issue. We have to start voting them out.

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another day, another round of cheaters. Just finished a match on leviathan , had at least one guy 'hopping' around, teleporting...... Happening daily.

 

As for the people not participating during matches, if you die, on the screen you can see their names, just click on it to vote them, out, not sure how many it takes, but till we start voting them out, they'll just keep doing nothing. BW won't fix this issue. We have to start voting them out.

 

Perhaps you wouldn't mind reading the multitude of comments on this thread about cheating. Saves us typing it all out again. Suffice to say, please stop accusing people of cheating on a daily basis. Its not a good look.

 

As for vote kicking people - be careful. Please look to see if they have a stock ship bar first. That is the 4 free ships, in the standard order that they are when you first start a new toon. If they do have a stock ship bar, there is a very good chance they are a newbie who is having trouble hitting anything and hence the game now sees them as AFK. Used to happen to me all the time when I was fresh and new. Don't vote kick newbies who are trying but can't hit anything.

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Perhaps you wouldn't mind reading the multitude of comments on this thread about cheating. Saves us typing it all out again. Suffice to say, please stop accusing people of cheating on a daily basis. Its not a good look.

 

 

Maybe you should actually read the comments, instead of assuming others don't know what they are talking about.

I'm talking about ships teleporting, if that's a new move, I'd love to know how it works. We're also talking about people being inside certain places , where they can shoot out, but not be shot at, again, if this is a move, please let us know.

There are a number of cheaters in this game, it's not just 'git gud'

Cheating is not the 'good' look, so stop defending them.

 

As for the afk's, I do check, and you can see them sitting in the one spot for ages, not just a second or two, nor are they moving around missing stuff.

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Maybe you should actually read the comments, instead of assuming others don't know what they are talking about.

I'm talking about ships teleporting, if that's a new move, I'd love to know how it works. We're also talking about people being inside certain places , where they can shoot out, but not be shot at, again, if this is a move, please let us know.

There are a number of cheaters in this game, it's not just 'git gud'

Cheating is not the 'good' look, so stop defending them.

 

As for the afk's, I do check, and you can see them sitting in the one spot for ages, not just a second or two, nor are they moving around missing stuff.

 

I have read every comment on this thread because I have been part of it since the start. Teleporting was covered - how to knwo when its lag, and how to know when it latency manipulation.

 

One way textures was covered too. Not cheating. Bad form yes, but its not cheating.

 

Your accusation of "another day, another round of cheaters" is inaccurate and wrong, as others have made clear on this thread besides me.

 

I am not defending anyone who is cheating - once again, show me a video of these supposed cheaters and we will see what is actually happening. If there is suspicious activity there, I will be the first to pursue it with the devs. You do an injustice to people who are not cheating by spouting claims like you do, and you encourage new ones to assume everything they see is a cheat and not skill.

Edited by Ttoilleekul
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One way textures was covered too. Not cheating. Bad form yes, but its not cheating.

 

I believe Bioware considers terrain bug exploits to be exploits/cheating. At least they have in the past both in terms of sanctioning players and in fixing the terrain.

 

@Dark Tergon, screenshot the bugged terrain object and email it to Bioware. They have fixed terrain bugs in GSF in the past, so there is at least some hope that they might fix it. Even better would be short video showing the hole in the terrain surface that the exploiters are sneaking in through.

 

@ devs: remember that since EMP field has been fixed to respect LOS there's not really a good way for players to deal with actual terrain bugs/holes in collision boxes anymore. It's on you guys to fix this sort of thing.

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I have read every comment on this thread because I have been part of it since the start. Teleporting was covered - how to knwo when its lag, and how to know when it latency manipulation.

 

One way textures was covered too. Not cheating. Bad form yes, but its not cheating.

 

Your accusation of "another day, another round of cheaters" is inaccurate and wrong, as others have made clear on this thread besides me.

.

 

I don't give a flying *ahem* how long you've been playing (BTW, I've played GSF since it first started, not all the time, but I have played it, and I've been in this game nearly 10 years) , it doesn't change what I, and others have seen. The fact that you are either blind to the cheating, or actively trying to hid it is something people should consider.

I'm not talking about lag, I'm talking about a ship appearing all over the place, in quick succession, changing directions several times. I've also played in matches with people who'd have severe lag and this has never occurred.

If you want to continue defending cheats, that is your prerogative, I've seen enough hacks in a games, including this one to know the difference between lag, and hacks.

 

As for using the textures to hide, shoot, and not be hit, that's a bug, in pvp that would be flagged straight away. It's an exploit, and therefore a cheat.

 

No matter what you say, you ARE defending cheats, especially by trying to hide the fact there are some.

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@Dark Tergon, screenshot the bugged terrain object and email it to Bioware. They have fixed terrain bugs in GSF in the past, so there is at least some hope that they might fix it. Even better would be short video showing the hole in the terrain surface that the exploiters are sneaking in through.

 

@ devs: remember that since EMP field has been fixed to respect LOS there's not really a good way for players to deal with actual terrain bugs/holes in collision boxes anymore. It's on you guys to fix this sort of thing.

 

The problem with screen shots, is I'd have to get it from all angles, or we'd have people like the other poster claiming, it's not a bug, I just took the picture from the wrong angle, and if I stop long enough to take the pics from all angles, either the person using the EXPLOIT, or one of his team mates would blast me to pieces.

 

In spoiler tags as it's slightly off topic, even though it's a reply to a post. read if you want.

 

As for reporting to BW, I've tried, several times, and they've been ignored. not just gsf, but hacks in pvp too, and abhorrent behaviour in chat , NONE of it was ever actioned on. I still see the same people in pvp using hacks, and still see the same trolls. Not to mention, screen shots, etc, have been posted in a discord group where the devs frequent, and nothing has been done about it, and to add to that, the same discord has people admitting to hacking, etc. And when stuff is mentioned, they make a joke of it. etc.

 

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Maybe you should actually read the comments, instead of assuming others don't know what they are talking about.

 

 

I have read every comment on this thread because I have been part of it since the start. Teleporting was covered - how to knwo when its lag, and how to know when it latency manipulation.

 

One way textures was covered too. Not cheating. Bad form yes, but its not cheating.

 

 

This is what I mean Luc -- you tend to interpret things in a certain light and assume that YOUR point of view is the ONLY perspective.

 

I don't recall anyone making the claim other than yourself that terrain exploits were not cheats. Just because vets who have been here longer than you don't pay it much mind doesn't mean it's not seen as cheating. They've literally been in the game so long that its mostly ignored. The only reason it irritated me enough to bring it up the other night was that the teams were so one-sided it was beyond excessive -- like camping enemy spawn and shooting players before they've even loaded excessive.

 

Using the map exploits in general is like shoplifting a candy bar - it's "wrong" but its not a major offense. Intentionally manipulating data packets is far more serious. While it's less common to see, the players that do it continue to do so because there's little to no threat of punishment.

 

Since I've come back around the time of Squadrons release - I've seen one person make ignorant claims of cheating in these forums. One. Just because randoms on SF are quick to jump to accusations doesn't mean that mentality applies to the forum. (as i've stated before)

 

Lastly -- the forums are a nice way to filter the responses you get. The only people who can respond are currently subbed. And even still, its generally a hassle to login given the two step process.

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This is what I mean Luc -- you tend to interpret things in a certain light and assume that YOUR point of view is the ONLY perspective.

 

I don't recall anyone making the claim other than yourself that terrain exploits were not cheats. Just because vets who have been here longer than you don't pay it much mind doesn't mean it's not seen as cheating. They've literally been in the game so long that its mostly ignored. The only reason it irritated me enough to bring it up the other night was that the teams were so one-sided it was beyond excessive -- like camping enemy spawn and shooting players before they've even loaded excessive.

 

At least in my experience he's been open to differing opinions if you can back up your reasoning. I'm inclined to agree that broken geometry isn't cheating per se since it's not present around objectives anymore and confers no real advantage if you stop and think about it for more than two seconds. Ticking is arguably a bigger problem, but I wouldn't call it cheating either since the game allows you to do it.

 

If I had to pick, I would rather see the geometry fixed, but it's not like feeders are feeding any faster just because some idiot went and wedged himself inside some broken geometry and just sits there.

 

Since I've come back around the time of Squadrons release - I've seen one person make ignorant claims of cheating in these forums. One. Just because randoms on SF are quick to jump to accusations doesn't mean that mentality applies to the forum. (as i've stated before)

 

Historically speaking? It's pretty common, even on the forums, particularly anytime there's an influx of new players. And they have invariably always been mistaken about what's going on. Even with the broken geometry most of them think there's some sort of position hacks involved to do it when it's really just bad map design.

 

You want to know what's really bad for new players though? Coming in here and seeing every thread filled with you two bickering.

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