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Do you support a Mac OS X client in Star Wars the Old Republic?


Pencilvania

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Do not add support for Mac, it's a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere... Maybe in a couple years after all the IMPORTANT technical glitches have been worked out...

 

Macs are not for gaming. If you didn't realize that when you bought it, you do now.

 

LOL. My Mac plays every game I want to play - natively.

 

Besides only a complete fool would purchase their computer based on game availability. LOL.

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I think this isn't a discussion of the OS. There will be people who don't want to make the effort of bootcamp and who only use macs. I use an MBP at work and at home, I also use Redhat and Slackware heaps, and I have 2 windows machines whose primary purpose is gaming.

 

So, undiluted, the facts are:

 

- The game runs fine on bootcamp (compatibility wise, your specs define your actual experience regardless of OS). Bootcamp is NOT an emulated or virtualised environment. The OS runs native on the hardware, windows and Mac OS alike.

- Creating a Mac client will take development and budget, both of which will need to be taken from somewhere else (impossible to avoid, work is never done for free or instant).

- GPU manufacturers are not proactive in providing MacOS drivers (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#Macintosh and try finding Mac drivers on their sites). Mostly, Apple brings out drivers but support is far less than for Windows

 

The first is a simple fact, bootcamp is nice for running Linux or windows on any Intel based Mac.

 

The second and third are also known fact, and will be ongoing issues should they still decide to create such a client. Money and time will go to supporting something which does nothing but provide an easier alternative (not an only alternative) to what STILL is a small section of the player base (how else are you here posting if you're not already playing?). Drivers are not likely to see official and broad support for Mac from their manufacturers, not for gaming at least.

 

Tablets are not really a part of this discussion, tablets feature onboard graphics processors, they won't be switching to cards any time soon.

 

Sure, I'd like to be able to play swtor on my MBP, which is a nice new one with good GPU. But I have bootcamp and Windows isn't that hard to get. The *ONLY* counter point is that Windows obviously costs money, and you have to do some extra effort to play the game.

 

- Effort: if you like the game, you'll make the effort to go into bootcamp. if you don't, oh well it was nice playing with you whilst it lasted

- Getting Windows: if you don't have Windows already you will need to pay, there are however MANY ways to get it for free or a lot cheaper (student, MSDN, etc).

 

Now personally, I suppose I can see why the second reason bothers people. Though how you have been mainstream gaming if you are 100% Mac Only I have no idea, you're quite restricted in your market. Then again, if you shell out the extra for an MBP or so, you can afford a Windows license. Again, if you feel you can't for the principle of it, it was nice playing with you.

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I think this isn't a discussion of the OS. There will be people who don't want to make the effort of bootcamp and who only use macs. I use an MBP at work and at home, I also use Redhat and Slackware heaps, and I have 2 windows machines whose primary purpose is gaming.

 

So, undiluted, the facts are:

 

- The game runs fine on bootcamp (compatibility wise, your specs define your actual experience regardless of OS). Bootcamp is NOT an emulated or virtualised environment. The OS runs native on the hardware, windows and Mac OS alike.

- Creating a Mac client will take development and budget, both of which will need to be taken from somewhere else (impossible to avoid, work is never done for free or instant).

- GPU manufacturers are not proactive in providing MacOS drivers (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#Macintosh and try finding Mac drivers on their sites). Mostly, Apple brings out drivers but support is far less than for Windows

 

The first is a simple fact, bootcamp is nice for running Linux or windows on any Intel based Mac.

 

The second and third are also known fact, and will be ongoing issues should they still decide to create such a client. Money and time will go to supporting something which does nothing but provide an easier alternative (not an only alternative) to what STILL is a small section of the player base (how else are you here posting if you're not already playing?). Drivers are not likely to see official and broad support for Mac from their manufacturers, not for gaming at least.

 

Tablets are not really a part of this discussion, tablets feature onboard graphics processors, they won't be switching to cards any time soon.

 

Sure, I'd like to be able to play swtor on my MBP, which is a nice new one with good GPU. But I have bootcamp and Windows isn't that hard to get. The *ONLY* counter point is that Windows obviously costs money, and you have to do some extra effort to play the game.

 

- Effort: if you like the game, you'll make the effort to go into bootcamp. if you don't, oh well it was nice playing with you whilst it lasted

- Getting Windows: if you don't have Windows already you will need to pay, there are however MANY ways to get it for free or a lot cheaper (student, MSDN, etc).

 

Now personally, I suppose I can see why the second reason bothers people. Though how you have been mainstream gaming if you are 100% Mac Only I have no idea, you're quite restricted in your market. Then again, if you shell out the extra for an MBP or so, you can afford a Windows license. Again, if you feel you can't for the principle of it, it was nice playing with you.

 

I'm not a gamer, but I enjoy playing games.

 

Releasing a Mac OS X native client is the single largest infusion of subscribers and revenue they could generate, barring a full retail expansion. The game is already created - it doesn't take another 100% effort to create it for the Mac. You're looking at 10-15% overall effort to bring it to market comparatively. If that.

 

Slam-dunk ROI.

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my answer would be no let not waste dev time on porting the game to a different OS. When there time can be spent else were like fixing bugs and making new content. Bootcomp works fine

 

Never mind.

Edited by Lethality
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There are no current development efforts to create a Mac OS client for Star Wars: The Old Republic (or indeed, for any other operating system or platform).

 

No-one here hates Macs (in fact, many of us quite like them :)) but development efforts are currently focused on expanding and improving the game for PC/Windows.

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Hmm, I don't know enough about their codebase to comment on that. Take in mind it generates another wing for CS to deal with too.

 

Still, if their internal investigations into these things come to the same conclusions I'd happily support it. If they get ROI it means overall more time and effort will be spent on the game, rather than taken away.

 

Still, it will mean testing on more dimensions, and will most likely mean more testing for releases.

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There are no current development efforts to create a Mac OS client for Star Wars: The Old Republic (or indeed, for any other operating system or platform).

 

No-one here hates Macs (in fact, many of us quite like them :)) but development efforts are currently focused on expanding and improving the game for PC/Windows.

 

Hey Stephen :)

 

Could you clarify Greg's comments in this article a bit, possibly?

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/02/bioware-mac-version-of-star-wars-the-old-republic-is-something/

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Hmm, I don't know enough about their codebase to comment on that. Take in mind it generates another wing for CS to deal with too.

 

Still, if their internal investigations into these things come to the same conclusions I'd happily support it. If they get ROI it means overall more time and effort will be spent on the game, rather than taken away.

 

Still, it will mean testing on more dimensions, and will most likely mean more testing for releases.

 

Yes, each case is different, but I'm using first-hand experience from projects I've worked on. Perhaps the effort for an MMO is greater than 15%, but I know it's not 100% :)

 

I just know Blizzard handles it all without skipping a beat, and I want to believe that EA/BioWare is in the same position.

Edited by Lethality
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Hmm don't think their comments are mutually exclusive. The interview states 'We want to get this launch under our belt and everything stabilized and happy.' which I take to be the same as the comment here. Finger in the wind estimate on any realistic turn around on a Mac client would be 6 months to get it to a PTS stage, full year for a deployment, if they started soon. Maybe that's pessimistic?

 

In the short to medium term the best is hoping that an avid fan takes it upon himself to find a good Wine work around.

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Hmm don't think their comments are mutually exclusive. The interview states 'We want to get this launch under our belt and everything stabilized and happy.' which I take to be the same as the comment here. Finger in the wind estimate on any realistic turn around on a Mac client would be 6 months to get it to a PTS stage, full year for a deployment, if they started soon. Maybe that's pessimistic?

 

In the short to medium term the best is hoping that an avid fan takes it upon himself to find a good Wine work around.

 

That's my point in all of this - by releasing it later (especially a year later) you can no longer bank off of the hype, buzz and marketing of an initial launch. You now have to re-market specifically to Mac players, making the recoup even steeper.

 

From the beginning, I never understood why it wasn't a cross-platform choice. I've been advocating for this since the day the forums went live on October 21, 2008... but the decision made back in 2006 or whenever didn't take into account the growth that would happen to the Mac market and the Apple brand in general.

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That's my point in all of this - by releasing it later (especially a year later) you can no longer bank off of the hype, buzz and marketing of an initial launch. You now have to re-market specifically to Mac players, making the recoup even steeper.

 

From the beginning, I never understood why it wasn't a cross-platform choice. I've been advocating for this since the day the forums went live on October 21, 2008... but the decision made back in 2006 or whenever didn't take into account the growth that would happen to the Mac market and the Apple brand in general.

 

Here's why: Steam survey finds more than 8% of gamers use Mac OSX

 

OK so let's call that 9%. Now let's say that half of those will be happy using bootstrap so 4.5%.

 

Let's say the game has sold about 2 million copies so far. If that's the case, BioWare has lost revenue from 90,000 Mac-only players to date. Assume BioWare's portion of the box revenue is $25 per box. They've elected to forego $2,250,000 by not supporting Mac directly.

 

I assume they can do math and surveys and they know the real numbers better than these estimates. However, if these estimates are anywhere near close, when you consider everything they'd have to do to support a Mac client - hardware, ongoing engineering, testing, and support - it's probably not worth it.

 

Edit: Choosing to game on a Mac is like choosing to drive a diesel powered automobile. There are simply going to be some gas stations you can't fill up at.

Edited by DarthTHC
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Here's why: Steam survey finds more than 8% of gamers use Mac OSX

 

OK so let's call that 9%. Now let's say that half of those will be happy using bootstrap so 4.5%.

 

Let's say the game has sold about 2 million copies so far. If that's the case, BioWare has lost revenue from 90,000 Mac-only players to date. Assume BioWare's portion of the box revenue is $25 per box. They've elected to forego $2,250,000 by not supporting Mac directly.

 

I assume they can do math and surveys and they know the real numbers better than these estimates. However, if these estimates are anywhere near close, when you consider everything they'd have to do to support a Mac client - hardware, ongoing engineering, testing, and support - it's probably not worth it.

 

Edit: Choosing to game on a Mac is like choosing to drive a diesel powered automobile. There are simply going to be some gas stations you can't fill up at.

 

On the other hand there isn't the same amount of variation in hardware to support as for the PC version.

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On the other hand there isn't the same amount of variation in hardware to support as for the PC version.

 

BioWare is a business that is owned by a greedy sumbatch of a business called EA. If they believed there was profit to be made by supporting Mac, they'd support Mac. It's really that simple.

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There are no current development efforts to create a Mac OS client for Star Wars: The Old Republic (or indeed, for any other operating system or platform).

 

No-one here hates Macs (in fact, many of us quite like them :)) but development efforts are currently focused on expanding and improving the game for PC/Windows.

 

 

OWNED. time for angry birds on the tablet.

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Here's why: Steam survey finds more than 8% of gamers use Mac OSX

 

OK so let's call that 9%. Now let's say that half of those will be happy using bootstrap so 4.5%.

 

Let's say the game has sold about 2 million copies so far. If that's the case, BioWare has lost revenue from 90,000 Mac-only players to date. Assume BioWare's portion of the box revenue is $25 per box. They've elected to forego $2,250,000 by not supporting Mac directly.

 

I assume they can do math and surveys and they know the real numbers better than these estimates. However, if these estimates are anywhere near close, when you consider everything they'd have to do to support a Mac client - hardware, ongoing engineering, testing, and support - it's probably not worth it.

 

Edit: Choosing to game on a Mac is like choosing to drive a diesel powered automobile. There are simply going to be some gas stations you can't fill up at.

 

Hold on there... you just cast out a whole lot of assumptions specifically to make the numbers look lower.

 

First of all, use the full 9% (lets use 10% because its easy math and I'm lazy) - because they could use Boot Camp for steam too, but they don't.

 

Second, consider the full revenue for the box sales... that's what other numbers are calculated by. Not cost.

 

Third, count an annual subscription for each purchaser. It's not just box sales with a subscription MMO.

 

This puts you at an annual revenue from Mac users for TOR at $12,000,000 (box sales), $36,000,000 (sub revenue) or a total of $48million dollars in year one revenue from Mac users alone. And you cannot tell me that expense wouldn't be paid off in the first few months. it would cost no where near that to do a Mac port.

 

I have been through this for more than 3 years. I've seen every argument and calculation, and proven them all wrong.

 

EA was absolutely wrong in their decision, the Mac version would absolutely be profitable, and as a shareholder I've expressed my dissatisfaction directly as well.

 

Money is being left on the table, or more specifically lining the pockets of our largest competitor.

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There are no current development efforts to create a Mac OS client for Star Wars: The Old Republic (or indeed, for any other operating system or platform).

 

No-one here hates Macs (in fact, many of us quite like them :)) but development efforts are currently focused on expanding and improving the game for PC/Windows.

 

Then there is currently no money going from my pocket to your company (or indeed not only this game all other EA games (i will pirate all of them) )

 

I don't hate EA (in fact , many of use like EA) but not working\useless port of the game is no good for me , all mac users.

 

 

Therefore enjoy making a half baked game better when you are able to support Mac , I will be back.

 

Time for WOW ....

 

 

:p:p

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If EA/BW are like any other company in the world, they'll make a mac client the moment they realize it'll make them a profit. In the meantime, I'll continue playing on Bootcamp until Mists of Pandaria or GW2 comes out, whichever comes first.
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Hold on there... you just cast out a whole lot of assumptions specifically to make the numbers look lower.

 

First of all, use the full 9% (lets use 10% because its easy math and I'm lazy) - because they could use Boot Camp for steam too, but they don't.

 

Second, consider the full revenue for the box sales... that's what other numbers are calculated by. Not cost.

 

Third, count an annual subscription for each purchaser. It's not just box sales with a subscription MMO.

 

This puts you at an annual revenue from Mac users for TOR at $12,000,000 (box sales), $36,000,000 (sub revenue) or a total of $48million dollars in year one revenue from Mac users alone. And you cannot tell me that expense wouldn't be paid off in the first few months. it would cost nowhere near that to do a Mac port.

 

I have been through this for more than 3 years. I've seen every argument and calculation, and proven them all wrong.

 

EA was absolutely wrong in their decision, the Mac version would absolutely be profitable, and as a shareholder I've expressed my dissatisfaction directly as well.

 

Money is being left on the table, or more specifically lining the pockets of our largest competitor.

 

You guys are assuming all 10% (which i think is too high a number) will buy SWTOR. Keep in mind, gamers don't all buy every single game released. It be safer to take that number and cut it in half. So 8%, lets say 4% at best. I still think that number is too high.

 

Stat counters show 8% total MAC OS market share. It just doesn't make good business sense to develop for Mac OS. Which is why MAC OS software is far and few between.

 

Blizzard is a nice company, also a somewhat of a Mac-loving company. Most game development companies never release MAC OS at the same time as the PC version, it is usually a delayed release if at all.

 

Look at Blackberry, higher market share then MAC OS comparatively, yet such a small number of Apps compared to iOS. Same principle. This has nothing to do with hate or love. Just isn't simply worth it at this point in time. We will probably see a MAC OS client a year or 2 down the road.

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Hold on there... you just cast out a whole lot of assumptions specifically to make the numbers look lower.

 

First of all, use the full 9% (lets use 10% because its easy math and I'm lazy) - because they could use Boot Camp for steam too, but they don't.

 

Second, consider the full revenue for the box sales... that's what other numbers are calculated by. Not cost.

 

Third, count an annual subscription for each purchaser. It's not just box sales with a subscription MMO.

 

This puts you at an annual revenue from Mac users for TOR at $12,000,000 (box sales), $36,000,000 (sub revenue) or a total of $48million dollars in year one revenue from Mac users alone. And you cannot tell me that expense wouldn't be paid off in the first few months. it would cost no where near that to do a Mac port.

 

I have been through this for more than 3 years. I've seen every argument and calculation, and proven them all wrong.

 

EA was absolutely wrong in their decision, the Mac version would absolutely be profitable, and as a shareholder I've expressed my dissatisfaction directly as well.

 

Money is being left on the table, or more specifically lining the pockets of our largest competitor.

 

 

 

BioWare and EA are for-profit businesses. If they thought they could support a Mac client profitably, they'd be working on a Mac client.

 

SR said they're not working on a Mac client. Ergo, they don't believe they can do it profitably.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

 

The solution seems simple enough too. Well, there are two.

 

1) Apple could ship a big cheque to BioWare to offset the development costs. Lord knows they've made enough profit off the sweat and tears of Chinese children to afford to ship a few million.

 

2) More gamers could buy Apple instead of PC, thus increasing the number of gamers who'd buy a Mac instead of PC version, thus shifting more revenue toward that side of the equation.

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There are no current development efforts to create a Mac OS client for Star Wars: The Old Republic (or indeed, for any other operating system or platform).

 

No-one here hates Macs (in fact, many of us quite like them :)) but development efforts are currently focused on expanding and improving the game for PC/Windows.

 

Just wanted to say keep up the good work love what on the way with 1.2

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BioWare and EA are for-profit businesses. If they thought they could support a Mac client profitably, they'd be working on a Mac client.

 

SR said they're not working on a Mac client. Ergo, they don't believe they can do it profitably.

Don't make assumptions, please.

 

I said we're not currently working on a Mac client. That doesn't rule out the possibility of a Mac client in the future; as various interviews have stated, it's always possible.

 

However, currently, there are no development efforts directed towards a Mac client. Unless it's being done in an underground bunker far from here by stealth-suited developers.

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BioWare is a business that is owned by a greedy sumbatch of a business called EA. If they believed there was profit to be made by supporting Mac, they'd support Mac. It's really that simple.

Not really, first it's success on the PC, if it's big enough a Mac version will come, like every other "greedy" company does or has done in the past.

I don't get what there is so greedy about it, it's more a question of playing your cards safe, but I guess your not much into business strategies?

Edited by Mineria
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However, currently, there are no development efforts directed towards a Mac client. Unless it's being done in an underground bunker far from here by stealth-suited developers.

Totally of topic :D

I always wondered what a stealth-suited developer looks alike...

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