LittleClay Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 With the nerf to concentrated fire being due to healers, which honestly was needed. Are the DPS specs going to be accommodated more damage to account for the lose of the 10% critical chance and supercharge stack generation or given a new set? The dps numbers compared to live fro PTS are terrible on a class which is already low for dps. Apex Predators set doesn't really help with pushing them to stay at where they currently are for dps on live. If anything Apex Predator should get a rework to remove any healing abilities to make it a strictly dps only set then buff the damage output you can do with the set to push them back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimarb Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I hope this is a very old version of pts build. the enhancement amplifier crap is also back in this iteration of pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokiDono Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Can someone post the changes here? I am too dumb to find it in the PTS forum and too lazy (to clear space on HDD) to download the PTS just for one setbonus Would much appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimarb Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Live Server: (2) +2% Mastery [4] Gaining a stack of Supercharge increases your crit chance by 10% for 10 secons. Effect can only occur once every 10 seconds (6) Doing damage or healing an ally has a 10% chance to build a supercharge. this can only occur once per 3 seconds. activating supercharged gas makes your next rail shot critically hit PTS: (2) +2% Mastery [4] Damaging an enemy or healing an ally has a 10% chance to generate a stack of supercharge. Cannot occur more than once every 5 seconds (6) activating supercharged gas makes your next rail shot critically hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXSistros Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 My Concern is, that the "New" CF Set is very boring and not that spec-defining as it is now. The Autocrit on 6 SB is a very old concept and the new 4p Bonus is significantly nerfed. Furthermore, the Nerf also hits the effectivity of the Tactical. I mean, compare it to other Setbonuses and how significant they are for the dps output of the Spec, e.g. Meteor Brawler or Established Foothold. They show that 6.0 was very much about the importance of new Items, Tacticals and Sets. Yes, CF is not THAT complex, although it makes you react faster. But SPLITTING the 6-piece on 4 and 6 completly counteracts that approach. The fact that you can nerf ALL TREES, DPS and Heal, at the same time by nerfing the Set, shows that is not that complex and specific. If you want to Nerf Heals, dont cripple the Set and buff IO passives. The good solution would be a rework of the set to make it more spec-specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomBah Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 A message from the devs is required. This would be the hardest nerf on any set bonus since 6.0. And this on the only available and useful set for the merc / commando at all. The predator set, the second useful set (in theory), is not available, i have only 2 set pieces from this weekend special vendor. Every other set is complete useless. So now only useless sets for mercs? Compare that to the hard nerf on the op and sage set, but that was nothing for what happens now to the merc. The sage healer have a other set (beside the nerfed set was never intended for healers), the sage dd was indeed overperforming (the merc dd surely not), the nerf for the op set was only to reduce the +10% crit happens only once every 18 sec (and the dd was or is overperforming too). That would nerf all merc specs to the ground. So dear devs, is this intended? Please have a look on the other sets and see (finally), that no one is useful in any meaning, or is not available (predator). Or come other compensatory? And think too, for the tech and credits that players have invested in this concentrated fire set. If you really think that the merc is overperforming you should communicate that, because that is not understandable. The healer can overperforming (but that was known til beta 6.0), but it comes not from the set, it comes only from the kolto bomb/rocket- tactical and this is situational. If i play the healer spec with the mobile tactical (what i do mostly), i perform the same like the other 2 healers. If this is really intended, and will go live, the merc is the only class with not only the weakest sets, it will be the most boring sets too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageInFame Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I now believe that the developers themselves are brain-afk. The changes don't annoy the merc-Healer very much, but both DD specializations are no longer playable. Arsenal is currently at a good level (6.1.1) - now the IO merc should be increased by ~800 dps. Buuuuut: This change is more likely to throw all the DD-specializations into the trashcan. Maybe you should play your own game or stop balancing the classes with a dice... I hope this time we get an official answer to the changes and the reasons for such stupid measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEndonae Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Let's dial back the melodrama a little bit here. They've done an incredible job so far with sustained DPS balancing on live, at least in PvE. There's much less variation in damage output between the specs than there was in 5.0, which enables players to play what they enjoy instead of having to worry about FOTM. Most of the specs also have at least 1 strong selling point to make up for a weakness, like most of the DoT specs are way better at AoE than the burst specs. It seems unlikely that they'll mess up merc or won't do anything to compensate for the nerfs to the set bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageInFame Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Let's dial back the melodrama a little bit here. They've done an incredible job so far with sustained DPS balancing on live, at least in PvE. There's much less variation in damage output between the specs than there was in 5.0, which enables players to play what they enjoy instead of having to worry about FOTM. Most of the specs also have at least 1 strong selling point to make up for a weakness, like most of the DoT specs are way better at AoE than the burst specs. It seems unlikely that they'll mess up merc or won't do anything to compensate for the nerfs to the set bonus. According to this statement I have to play on another live server or with an outdated version. I want your mentioned version too! The classes are definitely balanced, there is no PT or Burst Sorc that does 1-2k dps more than all other classes. Well, you lose about 2-3k dps with this change and everyone was complaining about the changes to the sorc. Also, all dot specializations should make more dmg than a burst specialization on a single target. (For long fights, like the dummy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJudeAbides Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I'd like to add my "here here" to the general sentiment of this thread. Commando DPS are getting nerfed for NO reason at all. We're merely going to suffer because Healer Commando's are OP. But rather than doing something sensible, like nerfing their actual heals, or removing the healer components from CF, they're just going to say FU to all Commando DPS. I copied over my Commando main which has full Min/maxed gear (R-2 Mods, correct "R" enhancements, full gold Armor Pen. amplifiers) just so I could parse, and the results were as I feared: I was parsing about 2k less than I did before. This nerf is nothing short of full on destruction of the DPS specs. I suppose we Commandos should be used to this by now, given they nerf our class into the ground EVERY single expansion, but somehow this is just much, much worse than in the past. And even if Apex Predator is now the new BIS gear, that brings a whole new load of BS: it only randomly drops in MM Dxun and there is no clear path to gear, just RNG nonsense. And even if I manage to get the set, I now have to rip out all my armorings, mods, enhancements, and augments, not to mention re-augmenting the new gear. So all that money I've sunk into my CF sets is straight down the drain. At least when they nerfed the Operative and Sage sets, they were still viable sets, but this is just absurd. Commando DPS as a whole is no longer viable. Nobody is going to want to take a Commando DPS in MM Dxun, or any other raid, with how little DPS we can actually do. The developers NEED to respond to this, but I know they won't, because "OMG, lulz, swoop racing and gambling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXSistros Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Despite I love the old CF Set, I must admit that the 4 piece SB is a little "boring" by giving us 10% critchance permanently simply for doing what we do since years. But on the other hand, there are 10% damage boosts triggered by flaming fist or Damage Boosts from Entrench etc., so this can't be the reason to rework the Set for IO (I am just generally assuming that the heal nerf with the Set ist total nonsense). Honestly, I can live with the new 4 piece Setbonus, even if you decide to nerf it from 3 to 5 seconds. But the 6 piece Setbonus is just spitting in our Helmet covered faces. If you want the Healers to be adjusted, CF needs to get a rework to make it IO-exclusive. But on the other Hand, both PT specs, 2/3 Sniper Specs and both Sorc Specs use the same (viable) Set. So why ist there such a desperate need to devide Arsenal, IO and Bodyguard? So please, don't do this patchwork nerfs and buffs all over the classes. I think you need a philosophy of what the new Set diversity should do. Should every Spec have their own Set or are you ok with one BiS Set for every DPS Spec of a Class? When 6.0 came live, my impression was that you wanted to give our gear more value and depth, a development I can agree with and that you could have established even more. If you nerf CF and give us a compensation in passives, well, then you counteract this development. So please, if you are still the same guys who programmed the design of Heatseeker Missile, show us Mercs some mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TassieG Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 This is another request for the devs to take a close look at what a concentrated fire nerf will do to merc dps. We are already just a middling ranged class. Without a major buff to our passives, the CF nerf will wreck us. I have and have parsed the 6-piece apex predator set, and it is nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muthias Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Devs...you all need to take a look at what this CF nerf is going to do to the DPS specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeTacoCat Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 +1 Please devs buff merc dps if you're going to nerf CF. It is desperately needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) When the game first launched the devs decided that they needed to give melee classes better dps than ranged clases because they would suffer from reduced time on target. Then trough they years they added in gap closers and 30 meter abilities, and made all abilities able to be used on the move for all melee classes, but still believed that the same rules should apply and thus, they continue to work to establish a 10% dps gap between melee dot classes and ranged burst classes. While I believe that philosophy is now flawed because of the changes they've made, the devs seem to be working to reestablish that gap, and I think that is the reason they are nerfing mercs now. With that said, I do not expect them to reply to this or any other thread regarding this change. Edited May 19, 2020 by Exly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUTChris Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Why not instead of removing the 10% crit change the set to provide 10% crit for damage abilities only? That would still nerf the heal Merc which is overperforming in PvE.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catharde Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) As a returning player that loves playing commando right now, please reconsider this change. Many players have invested considerable time and in-game resources to get the Concentrated Fire armor set. The changes to this set on the PTR go beyond a simple adjustment; the 4 piece bonus is completely removed. This will cause the need for many commando players to reaugment this entire armor set, at substantial cost of credits and time. Many will be turned off by such a large nerf and may just walk away. I don't pretend to know what you are attempting to balance with these changes. However, having played MMOs for years, I do know that there are always multiple ways to address class balance. Maybe just lower the crit chance for the 4 piece? Adjust the damage or heals on specific abilities? You have options. But please, don't remove the core bonus for an entire armor set. I put in a lot of time to get this set, it really stinks to see it nerfed so hard. There are a few other posts in this thread have some good ideas for fixes, please check them out. Edited May 20, 2020 by Catharde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) is 10% crit buff that overpowered? if they go forward with this change they should add a passive crit buff to rail stacks or something. Edited May 20, 2020 by dipstik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolaez Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Yes this does seem like an unwarranted nerf for dps, especially IO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 As a returning player that loves playing commando right now, please reconsider this change. Many players have invested considerable time and in-game resources to get the Concentrated Fire armor set. The changes to this set on the PTR go beyond a simple adjustment; the 4 piece bonus is completely removed. This will cause the need for many commando players to reaugment this entire armor set, at substantial cost of credits and time. Many will be turned off by such a large nerf and may just walk away. I don't pretend to know what you are attempting to balance with these changes. However, having played MMOs for years, I do know that there are always multiple ways to address class balance. Maybe just lower the crit chance for the 4 piece? Adjust the damage or heals on specific abilities? You have options. But please, don't remove the core bonus for an entire armor set. I put in a lot of time to get this set, it really stinks to see it nerfed so hard. There are a few other posts in this thread have some good ideas for fixes, please check them out. Just look at the past few gear sets they have nerfed. They don't care if people buy them, waste time on them, etc. They have already nerfed sorc healer sets, and many other sets with no regard to what people have invested timewise. Which, in the big picture if they make proper changes this is not a big deal. The problem is when they make a nerf change ruining the set, making it useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrioroffhell Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 the only reason people want it nerfed is cause merc heal in PVE is too ez , but in PVP its balanced. if they do nerve this set healers won't have any viable set left anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUTChris Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) the only reason people want it nerfed is cause merc heal in PVE is too ez , but in PVP its balanced. if they do nerve this set healers won't have any viable set left anymore. Not just "too ez"..too easy AND too strong.. Merc basically has no weakness. The best single target healing, close 2nd AoE, great DCDs, energy management is a joke, and good offdps on top Argueably, for healing classes to be somewhat balanced any combination of different 2 classes should almost always be stronger than stacking the same class twice (fringe cases where a single utility is extremely powerful aside). Currently Merc/Op is the strongest combination, but after that you could make a good case for Merc/Merc over Merc/Sorc or Op/Sorc which speaks to the OPness of Merc. You wouldn't run 2 Op and definitely not 2 Sorc Edited May 30, 2020 by AUTChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrioroffhell Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 again i agree on the pve part , but don't nerf pvp healing for nothing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUTChris Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 But what else would you do then? Keep Merc heals OP in PvE because PvP? That can't be a serious suggestion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladech Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 This cant be serious. Arsenal mercenary is already one of weakest dps specs among all. Its burst became irrelevant compared to operatives and assassins and its sustained damage is low as always. Any further nerfs will kill arsenal completely both in pve and pvp. I already abandoned my merc in ranked just because its damage is weaker compared to all other range classes. Dev's calculations seems to be absolutely inaccurate and wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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